Elijah Daniel to Ole Miss

[gatormonk]

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2013/1/20/3898024/elijah-daniel-commits-ole-miss-football-recruiting

[LimeyGator]

They could have some very good DEs in Miss/MissSt next year... Nkemdiche, Daniel and Jones...!

[gymgator]

So I guess his grades weren't in order and he couldn't visit 2/1 like he had planned?

[trekcid]

I assume the grade and test score requirements for Ole Miss are lower than UF's?

[G8RNTN]

So I guess his grades weren't in order and he couldn't visit 2/1 like he had planned?

Correct... Staff had moved on as of early last week.

[trekcid]

The new coach at Ole Miss appears to be doing a good job recruiting. He is picking up
some high caliber players for Ole Miss. He is no where close to Boom but for Ole Miss
he is doing a good job selling that school. It is a hard sell.

[Briang8r]

I assume the grade and test score requirements for Ole Miss are lower than UF's?

I was just wondering about this. Why should a kid be able to go to another SEC school because of grades? Isn't there a base set of minimum admission requirements for all NCAA/SEC shools? I understand that these schools all have different academic standards, but we are talking about scholarship athletes for whom these standards are typically not applied. It seems silly to lose kids who would have come here had it not been for the fact that we are applying different criteria than our competition.

[Lawdog88]

I was just wondering about this. Why should a kid be able to go to another SEC school because of grades? Isn't there a base set of minimum admission requirements for all NCAA/SEC shools? I understand that these schools all have different academic standards, but we are talking about scholarship athletes for whom these standards are typically not applied. It seems silly to lose kids who would have come here had it not been for the fact that we are applying different criteria than our competition.


It has always - or nearly always - been thus.

I think the base requirements for athletes may be the same, but each U can put additional requirements on top of the base, which - I think - is what we do.

There can be no explanation for why, say, TN (fill in the SEC school of your choice) and other schools traditionally get the kids that we cannot qualify at UF.

So, someone with more knowledge please correct us with the real skinny.

[rserina]

If Ole Miss had Florida's academic standards, it would be a private tutoring firm.

[elrongator]

Ole Miss and several others take dummies.
Period, end of story.
Our academic requirements are a pain in the ass for our coaches sometimes, but I'd rather we have some basic standards and not deviate from them than fill our program with idiots that can't qualify.
And let's face it, to call someone that can't make the basic standards a "student/athlete" is an embarrassment. They are dumb or lazy or both.
Good riddance to anyone stupid enough to fail to make basic graduation requirements.

[Briang8r]

Ole Miss and several others take dummies.
Period, end of story.
Our academic requirements are a pain in the ass for our coaches sometimes, but I'd rather we have some basic standards and not deviate from them than fill our program with idiots that can't qualify.
And let's face it, to call someone that can't make the basic standards a "student/athlete" is an embarrassment. They are dumb or lazy or both.
Good riddance to anyone stupid enough to fail to make basic graduation requirements.

I have a hard time seeing the point of having standards above and beyond the basic requirements that the rest of the SEC has to follow. I would imagine Florida's standards for football players are in no way similar to what they require from the typical student. What is the point of handicapping ourselves with the few players who meet the SEC requirements, but do not meet the UF requirements, which appear to only be marginally higher?

I don't think anybody is going to argue the academic merits of a school based on its requirements for their football/basketball players. This just seems to bite us once or twice a year. I'm not saying we should compromise our moral standards and subscribe to unethical practices, such as over-signing players, pulling scholarships, etc. I'm saying what's the point of self imposing a competitive disadvantage? We are already lowering academic standards significantly for the kids we take. What does leaving a small gap between us and the rest of the league accomplish other than causing us to miss out on some players that may or may not be able to perform as well as the other players academically?

[Gatorgal04]

Per this section of an article I found on Saturdaydownsouth.com, we do have higher standards than the Clearinghouse:

The Indianapolis-based NCAA Eligibility Center—commonly known as the “NCAA Clearinghouse”—certifies the academic and amateur credentials of all students who wish to compete in Division I or Division II athletics. (Division III, which awards no athletic scholarships, does not have any division-wide eligibility rules.) Under current NCAA rules, an incoming freshman must be a high school graduate who completed 16 core courses (4 years of English, 3 years of math, 2 years of science, etc.) within four consecutive academic years. The student’s combined grade-point average and standardized test scores are then reviewed based on a sliding scale. For example, if the student has a high school GPA of 2.4, he must also earn a combined 860 on the SAT to be eligible for athletic competition as a freshman. A higher GPA would mean a lower minimum standardized test score, and vice-versa.

According to U.S. News & World Report’s annual college rankings, Florida has an admissions acceptance rate of just over 43%. It is a selective school that sets higher eligibility requirements than the NCAA Clearinghouse. While the NCAA only requires 16 core courses for freshman eligibility, Florida admissions requires 18, including one additional year in math and science and two years in a foreign language.

Florida also requires minimum scores of 460 on the SAT’s reading and mathematics tests, as well as 440 on the writing test. The NCAA Clearinghouse only looks at the reading and the mathematics components of the SAT. By the NCAA’s sliding scale, Florida’s minimum requirement of 920 combined on those two SAT components matches to a 2.25 high school GPA.

Personally, I'm willing to accept getting bit once or twice a year to uphold these standards. I don't think they're getting in the way of our teams winning championships, and I'd rather have athletes who have a better chance of graduating.

[demosthenes]

Per this section of an article I found on Saturdaydownsouth.com, we do have higher standards than the Clearinghouse:

Personally, I'm willing to accept getting bit once or twice a year to uphold these standards. I don't think they're getting in the way of our teams winning championships, and I'd rather have athletes who have a better chance of graduating.

On the positive side I think we see less eligibility issues with the kids once they're in school.

[phideltdj]

I don't think any of the SEC schools have eligiblity issues once they are in school...the classes those borderline entries take will guarantee they stay in school.

[Briang8r]

Per this section of an article I found on Saturdaydownsouth.com, we do have higher standards than the Clearinghouse:



Personally, I'm willing to accept getting bit once or twice a year to uphold these standards. I don't think they're getting in the way of our teams winning championships, and I'd rather have athletes who have a better chance of graduating.

I think the standards do have the potential to affect our teams winning championships. Many would say the only thing this year's recruiting class is missing is an elite DE. We apparently just lost one to the elevated standards. We also may be losing the only true Mike LB for the same reason. Hearns is looking at Kentucky and Auburn, and Daniel committed to Ole Miss. This means that we will not only miss their production on the field, but will likely have to face them as well.

Whether or not these standards do or do not prevent academic casualties or contribute substantially to the graduation rate would be pretty hard to prove. Perhaps there is someone else on the board with better insight into this subject. It's an interesting topic to debate.

[g8rboy]

I think the standards do have the potential to affect our teams winning championships. Many would say the only thing this year's recruiting class is missing is an elite DE. We apparently just lost one to the elevated standards. We also may be losing the only true Mike LB for the same reason. Hearns is looking at Kentucky and Auburn, and Daniel committed to Ole Miss. This means that we will not only miss their production on the field, but will likely have to face them as well.

Whether or not these standards do or do not prevent academic casualties or contribute substantially to the graduation rate would be pretty hard to prove. Perhaps there is someone else on the board with better insight into this subject. It's an interesting topic to debate.

would rather have the higher quality student athlete. my guess is they can learn what they need on the field better than the players we can't take. if they can't or won't learn the basics, no big loss.

[slayerxing]

Remember, this is a university first and a football team second. Those of us that have graduated depend, in no small part, on the reputation of a uf education. Why would we sacrifice these standards, and indeed our reputations, for a fricken game?

Keep the standards. Its worth it.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Remember, this is a university first and a football team second. Those of us that have graduated depend, in no small part, on the reputation of a uf education. Why would we sacrifice these standards, and indeed our reputations, for a fricken game?

Keep the standards. Its worth it.

This. These kids are student athletes. Florida just has higher standards than other schools around the league, and that's just the way it goes. It didn't stop us from competing at a high level under Meyer, and I don't think it directly cost us any games this season. Stanford and Notre Dame have higher standards than Florida, and those one of those schools played for a national championship, while the other one beat Wisconsin (another tough school to get into) in the Rose bowl.

Florida brought in five very good prospects (Bullard, Fowler, Cox, McCallister and Williams) who project to play end-even if they shift inside to DT in certain situations. We've done very well this year, getting Sherrit, Ivey and Riles. What's cool about Muschamp's style of D, is that many of these guys will be able to shift inside and out depending upon the situation, so we're definitely not in need of defensive ends at this point. We've done very well.

[StrangeGator]

Per this section of an article I found on Saturdaydownsouth.com, we do have higher standards than the Clearinghouse:

Personally, I'm willing to accept getting bit once or twice a year to uphold these standards. I don't think they're getting in the way of our teams winning championships, and I'd rather have athletes who have a better chance of graduating.

Agree strongly. Those minimum standards for UF are so far below what a non-athlete has to achieve to be admitted to UF. It must be hard to assimilate kids with a 920 into a student body who averaged a 1300 or higher along with a 4.0+ GPA. I'm glad UF requires the minimum writing score as well, even then, a 460 and 440 on the reading and writing sections is borderline illiterate. My acutely dyslexic daughter scored a 710 and 770 on those two sections without any accommodations. According to the Woodcock Johnson's verbal fluency test, she should be illiterate. I'm guessing these football players either didn't have adequate support in their schools, in their homes or both. Now those players who slip through with the minimum to get into UF have to play catch up with their classmates. I don't know how they do it, though some obviously do.

I know test scores aren't the same as grades, but if you score that low, you didn't learn what high school students are expected to learn to be prepared for college. Two-a-days are nothing compared to what they will have to do succeed in the classroom.

[ovillegator]

If Ole Miss had Florida's academic standards, it would be a private tutoring firm.

The girl's school tried that and got in trouble. :devil:

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Agree strongly. Those minimum standards for UF are so far below what a non-athlete has to achieve to be admitted to UF. It must be hard to assimilate kids with a 920 into a student body who averaged a 1300 or higher along with a 4.0+ GPA. I'm glad UF requires the minimum writing score as well, even then, a 460 and 440 on the reading and writing sections is borderline illiterate. My acutely dyslexic daughter scored a 710 and 770 on those two sections without any accommodations. According to the Woodcock Johnson's verbal fluency test, she should be illiterate. I'm guessing these football players either didn't have adequate support in their schools, in their homes or both. Now those players who slip through with the minimum to get into UF have to play catch up with their classmates. I don't know how they do it, though some obviously do.

I know test scores aren't the same as grades, but if you score that low, you didn't learn what high school students are expected to learn to be prepared for college. Two-a-days are nothing compared to what they will have to do succeed in the classroom.

Whether you realize it or not, you just made a great case for why some of these kids go pro. Why deal with the stress of student life, finals, reading books you really don't understand (or care about), taking classes you have no interest in, and continue to play catch up with other students for four years when you can leave after your junior season, make 10-20 times as much as the average graduate who finds a job within a year of graduation, and focus soley on your career.

Janoris Jenkins was a complete fool. I'll never understand why he wanted to come back to UF for his senior season. He literally rolled up millions of dollars into a "J", sparked it up, and put it right into his lungs.

[StrangeGator]

Whether you realize it or not, you just made a great case for why some of these kids go pro. Why deal with the stress of student life, finals, reading books you really don't understand, taking classes you have no interest in, and continue to play catch up with other students for four years when you can leave after your junior season, make 10-20 times as much as the average graduate who finds a job within a year of graduation, and focus soley on your career.

Janoris Jenkins was a complete fool. I'll never understand why he wanted to come back to UF for his senior season. He literally rolled up millions of dollars into a "J", sparked it up, and put it right into his lungs.

Yea, but we gotta keep them in adequate shape academically for three years in football. Basketball is another story. How ironic that our second ever one-and-done in basketball left UF with a 3.8 GPA on a pre-med track.

[gatorr4life]

Ole Miss and several others take dummies.
Period, end of story.
Our academic requirements are a pain in the ass for our coaches sometimes, but I'd rather we have some basic standards and not deviate from them than fill our program with idiots that can't qualify.
And let's face it, to call someone that can't make the basic standards a "student/athlete" is an embarrassment. They are dumb or lazy or both.
Good riddance to anyone stupid enough to fail to make basic graduation requirements.

Ole miss and several others take dummies? Might want to go listen to a few interviews of some of our former players. Not going to name names, but we've had a few that sound like they've never opened a English book in their life. :no:

[revthejedi]

Not everyone is a great student or are great speakers but there's no reason to name call. Everyone can't be smart and everyone can't run a four-four.

[elrongator]

And not everyone that can run a 4.4 should be allowed to play major college football.
Sorry, but UF has minimal standards for athletes to qualify. If you can't get that minimum you either aren't trying or your just dumb.
Kids with proven disabilities get extra consideration, extra time to take tests etc...
Can't make the minimum= dumb or lazy to me.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Not everyone is a great student or are great speakers but there's no reason to name call. Everyone can't be smart and everyone can't run a four-four.

Any 21-year old (Jenkins), who comes back to a university for his senior season and gets nailed (and kicked out of school for) twice for having pot, is a fool. I'm sorry.

Then he did everything he could to knock his draft down even more over in Alabama. Look at his antics before the draft. There's people who just aren't that smart; and there are people who just don't care.

[rserina]

Not entire sure what is gained by insulting some of these kids. Many come from extremely poor backgrounds, terrible schools, and parental situations you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy. I still remember the story of the Redskins DL in the 80s, Dexter Manley, who was completely illiterate. Yet somehow he got through high school and Oklahoma State without being able to read.

Do such kids merit a college education? Probably not. But fortunately they have the athletic skill and desire to impress someone on the football field and thereby get an opportunity to earn a college degree, or at the very least learn some basic intellectual skills and discipline along the way. I consider that a good thing.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

I'll say nothing more about the matter than this: bringing in kids with questionable character is something Meyer made a habit of doing. At first, it helped to win championships. However, once these kids saw what he was willing to overlook, the situation quickly spiraled out of control. UF became an embarrassment, with players routinely beating up women, getting busted for possession, players were getting away with all sorts of nonsense, and what happened as a result of what Meyer let carry on?

Do the words "broken program" ring a bell? If you really take pride in the University of Florida, then you can't act like the actions of these kids can't be called out for what they were.

Muschamp has given this program a complete makeover, and has brought us back to respectability. He's bringing in high-character guys, who put the team above themselves, and want to embrace the Gator nation. That should be embraced. That should be celebrated.

Players with questionable grades and/or questionable conduct should look elsewhere. We compromised on those standards under Meyer, and it was an embarrassment.

[DeBigLeezard]

North...
I totally, totally and completely agree with you.
The program won in the short run... but we paid a dear price in the long run.
But enough of that...

And I am very happy that we have Muschamp on board as our head coach.
Very happy.
We need someone who is attached to the University of Florida.
Meyer said that he was... actually... we were not, "... the top of the mountain" for Meyer.
For Muschamp... I feel that this IS his dream job.
Great recruiter...
Relates to the players...
Enthusiastic, young and gets fired up for his Gators!

[ETGator1]

The more I think about it, he'll probably be a sign and place, not in the enrolled class come summer.

[StrangeGator]

Character, grades and test scores are all different things. We make exceptions when a player compensates in one area or another. I guess everyone forgot that Tim Tebow had an SAT score in the mid 900 range. His grades were good, but I don't know how verifiable that is when a student is home schooled. He's obviously not very intellectually gifted, but made up for it with his leadership and determination. He worked hard, was an honor student and a great player. Our admissions people and our coaches obviously know what they're doing.

[atlantagator86]

So is Ole Miss taking him as a sign-and-place?

[ETGator1]

Somebody on another thread said he failed a required math course similar to what jucos have to have to get into the SEC. It doesn't look to me that he can get into any SEC school. If that isn't sign and place, what is it?

[Tebowism0823]

I'll say nothing more about the matter than this: bringing in kids with questionable character is something Meyer made a habit of doing. At first, it helped to win championships. However, once these kids saw what he was willing to overlook, the situation quickly spiraled out of control. UF became an embarrassment, with players routinely beating up women, getting busted for possession, players were getting away with all sorts of nonsense, and what happened as a result of what Meyer let carry on?

Do the words "broken program" ring a bell? If you really take pride in the University of Florida, then you can't act like the actions of these kids can't be called out for what they were.

Muschamp has given this program a complete makeover, and has brought us back to respectability. He's bringing in high-character guys, who put the team above themselves, and want to embrace the Gator nation. That should be embraced. That should be celebrated.

Players with questionable grades and/or questionable conduct should look elsewhere. We compromised on those standards under Meyer, and it was an embarrassment.

Well said.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Character, grades and test scores are all different things. We make exceptions when a player compensates in one area or another. I guess everyone forgot that Tim Tebow had an SAT score in the mid 900 range. His grades were good, but I don't know how verifiable that is when a student is home schooled. He's obviously not very intellectually gifted, but made up for it with his leadership and determination. He worked hard, was an honor student and a great player. Our admissions people and our coaches obviously know what they're doing.

While that may be true, it does seem that you find a lot of guys who have questionable character, poor grades, and they get suspended early on for "disciplinary" issues. Whether that relates to cutting class, poor test scores or cheating, I'm not sure. That info isn't always given. On the other hand, a lot of guys with "high character" seem to do well in school, go to class, and do well on tests.

I'd like Daniel to be a part of this class just as much as anyone, but he failed to take care of business in the classroom. Like you said, admissions and the coaching staff seem to have a firm grasp on what's going on.

[IH8REFS]

I'm pretty sure you get a 920 on the SAT for writing in your name correctly. That said, this just proves that college prestige has much more to do with the quality of student admitted than with the faculty's ability to teach anyone anything.