Gun Appreciation and Advice Thread

[MichiGator2002]

This seemed topical, and figured go ahead and start it in Too Hot to save moving it here later :)

I am looking at purchasing my first gun. I would like something that is suitable for self-defense, but I am not sure what I should look at in terms of size or style because I have pretty big hands and I am skeptical of being comfortable holding a lot of the compact models. I don't have any definite preference between a revolver and a pistol, or in terms of caliber, just want something reliable and (relatively, since it is a gun after all) fairly beginner friendly.

I will admit up front part of me wants to get something that I know takes high capacity magazines (Glock 19 9mm is one I saw, for instance), but mostly for the passive aggressive delight of being able to tell people that it would annoy that I own one. Other than that minor factor, I would consider anything.

I read some review sites, i.e. the truth about guns, but the bottom line is, I don't know enough. And until I take some classes and maybe find a range that rents, I still won't know. But I also trust the experience of our gunowning community.

A couple things that caught my eye in research were the Walther P99, the Sig 226 or 229, the SW M&P among the pistols, and any number of S&W or Taurus revolvers (I think the Judge sounds/looks awesome, but doesn't seem to review well in what I have seen?).

Anyway, figured both for my own advice but also anybody else that wants any or for our gunowners to talk about what they have and like and why, here is a thread.

[wygator]

I'm not a fan of compacts because they are harder to shoot accurately. A mid-size (4 to 4.5" barrel) will help absorb recoil and fit better in your hand. As a man, carry .38 auto, 9mm, .40, .44 or .45.

Disadvantages of revolvers are only 6 shots and no true safety.

All the brands you mentioned are good...we own two of those. Also check out the Bersa "Thunder" series. Great balance and handling.

A few online shopping sites I found recently:

http://grabagun.com/

http://www.centerfireguns.com/

http://glockstore.glockstore.com/

[gator7_5]

Disadvantages of revolvers are only 6 shots and no true safety.


Although you are technically correct about the revolver not having a "true safety" I Absolutely disagree about it being a less safe option. Especially for a novice. It would be extremely difficult to accidentally discharge my S&W .357 revolver. It's double action and its definitely no hair trigger..

That's not the case for my glock 27. Although it has a trigger safety, it's easy to disengage, and its got a single action hair trigger.

For home protection, especially for a first time gun owner, I'd highly recommend a revolver for safety, ease of use, and I believe accuracy. Anyone can fire it. I'd hate to see my panicked wife trying to chamber and fire my glock. I keep it chambered at the office, but wouldn't at the house probably.

Just my .02.

[wygator]

Although you are technically correct about the revolver not having a "true safety" I Absolutely disagree about it being a less safe option. Especially for a novice. It would be extremely difficult to accidentally discharge my S&W .357 revolver. It's double action and its definitely no hair trigger..

That's not the case for my glock 27. Although it has a trigger safety, it's easy to disengage, and its got a single action hair trigger.

For home protection, especially for a first time gun owner, I'd highly recommend a revolver for safety, ease of use, and I believe accuracy. Anyone can fire it. I'd hate to see my panicked wife trying to chamber and fire my glock. I keep it chambered at the office, but wouldn't at the house probably.

Just my .02.

You make good points about the revolver...just my .02 as well. I commonly carry one.

As far as your wife is concerned, with some practice she should be fine with your Glock. Here in Wyoming, LOTS of ladies carry semi-automatics.

[wargunfan]

I own a Sig 229 .40 cal and keep it on the night table. It holds 12 rounds. A revolver would be a good option for a novice but every pistol requires regular practice. You should try out both types. Whichever you choose I would go no smaller than .357 magnum in a revolver and no less than 9 mm in a semiautomatic. Another good option for home defense is a shotgun. I keep a 12 gauge Beretta semiauto in the bedroom. Some folks prefer a pump shotgun for reliability. A shotgun is more likely to find its target in a dark room and a couple of rounds of 00 buckshot is devastating.

[PITBOSS]

do you have children at home - boys? If so, be careful. Lesser chance of needing the gun for home protection than there are for accidents, theft, etc.

if not - .38 revolver. 6 shots are plenty and no fussing around with clips/jamming when the crips kick in your door.

[MichiGator2002]

Honestly, I think I might buy a revolver for actual purpose and then buy an automatic with a 12+ round capacity magazine just to keep in a safe on general principle until such time as I want to master it. I wasn't kidding when I said I was at least partly motivated by the chance to offend someone ).

Revolver owners in particular, am I right that S&W, Ruger, Colt, these are the names in revolvers?

[wargunfan]

do you have young children at home - boys? If so, be careful. Lesser chance of needing the gun for home protection than there are for accidents, theft, etc.

if not - .38 revolver. 6 shots are plenty and no fussing around with clips/jamming when the crips kick in your door.

No kids in the house. Once again, one should practice regularly with any firearm on which you might stake your life. You must always guard against "limp wristing" a semiauto or a "stovepipe" round could result (a round which fails to properly eject). A revolver won't do that but I prefer not to try to reload a revolver in the dark. I'll stick with one 12 round magazine and my shotgun and pray it never happens.

[Lawdog88]

It does matter what type of self-defense you are anticipating, based on the threats to your home / family / property / person you perceive. Home invaders in the night bent on burglary might require one type of firearm defense in a suburban setting, where gang-type home invasion in an urban environment might suggest another.

If you carry a briefcase full of diamonds for a living, that might dictate what weapon you employ, but the concealed carry crowd could give you advice on that.

A weapon in a vehicle might be a different choice than the one you might employ at home, and in Florida, it must be securely encased to avoid being considered concealed.

And of course, doomsday preppers have a different view of self-defense than typical homeowners, and resultantly, their choice of weapon(s) vary significantly. :laugh:

[brainstorm]

If you're only going to purchase one gun and have no plans to conceal carry then you'll want to stay with a larger handgun. They are easier to shoot.

Revolvers. They can be a good choice and you don't have to worry about jams. If the round doesn't fire then just pull the trigger again. I think a .357 is the best option since the .38 is pretty inept as a round. The Ruger GP100 and the Taurus 608 are good choices. The Smith and Wesson models are good as well but cost a good bit more.

To me, the big downside is the limitation in the number of rounds. Usually 6. While the experts will tell you that most gun fights in home defense situations are limited to a few shots that doesn't really make me feel comfortable.

Semi-automatics. There are numerous options. I like to start with the caliber first. I prefer the .45ACP for home defense situations. But, 9mm, .40S&W and .357SIG are good choices as well.


.45ACP

Many people say the 1911 is the best gun out there but they can be quite expensive. And they usually have 8 or less in a clip. Take a look at Dan Wesson, Remington, Colt, Kimber, Para Ordinance and Springfield.

For non-1911 .45 I prefer the Glock 21. Shoots great, handles recoil well and holds 13 in a clip. It is reasonably priced as well. Others to consider: Sig 220, FNP 45, Springfield XP.

9mm/.40S&W/.357SIG

The 9mm doesn't have the stopping power that other two have but is still a strong caliber. I prefer Glocks, like the 17 or 22. However, the Beretta ninety-two, CZ 75, SIG 229 and S&W M&P are good choices as well.

Ruger and Taurus are good names to remember. They make solid guns (semi-automatic and revolvers) at good prices.

I would recommend you go to a gun shop and hold some of the models to make sure they fit your hand properly.

[brainstorm]

Honestly, I think I might buy a revolver for actual purpose and then buy an automatic with a 12+ round capacity magazine just to keep in a safe on general principle until such time as I want to master it. I wasn't kidding when I said I was at least partly motivated by the chance to offend someone ).

Revolver owners in particular, am I right that S&W, Ruger, Colt, these are the names in revolvers?

Colt doesn't make revolvers anymore. Well, other than a few cowboy guns. The big three in my mind are S&W, Ruger and Taurus. All three are good. Smith is the priciest. Other names are Charter Arms and Rossi. Rossi used to be average quality. Charter seems to specialize in snub nose (small barrels) which don't shoot as accurately as longer barrels.

[brainstorm]

The 12 GA shotgun is probably the best home defense weapon you can buy. If I had the $$$ I would buy the Benelli M4.

[MichiGator2002]

I am interested in concealed carry, it just isn't something I plan on doing immediately until my confidence was substantially higher. But I would want a gun suitable to it. The fee times I have held any pistol or revolver hand comfort has been... a concern. I just measured and my palm is about 4.5 inches wide, and most "concealed"/"carry"/"compact" labelled guns I see on the webs all seem to be about 5 inches tall give or take, so that makes me wonder if carry will even be plausible unless it is manageable to conceal a medium frame revolver or a full-size automatic.

I am single and have no kids, for whatever it is worth.

[helix139]

I have a sig p229 and a p239, both in 40. I am thinking my next gun will likely be a 9mm sig p226 or p229 with a threaded barrel, though, with a primary purpose of home defense. The thinking is going 9mm allows for quicker follow up shots and higher capacity, allowing an easier time throwing a wall of lead down range quickly. Also, the threaded barrel will allow me to add a suppressor, which will mean I won't blow out my ears after 1 shot if I have to fire indoors.

I am interested in concealed carry, it just isn't something I plan on doing immediately until my confidence was substantially higher. But I would want a gun suitable to it. The fee times I have held any pistol or revolver hand comfort has been... a concern. I just measured and my palm is about 4.5 inches wide, and most "concealed"/"carry"/"compact" labelled guns I see on the webs all seem to be about 5 inches tall give or take, so that makes me wonder if carry will even be plausible unless it is manageable to conceal a medium frame revolver or a full-size automatic.

I am single and have no kids, for whatever it is worth.

Check out the p239. I carry mine even in light Florida summer clothing. Just get a decent IWB holster and a good belt. The p239 is doable also, but the thicker grip to accommodate double stack mags makes it more likely to print in the grip area.

[Minister_of_Information]

Although you are technically correct about the revolver not having a "true safety" I Absolutely disagree about it being a less safe option. Especially for a novice. It would be extremely difficult to accidentally discharge my S&W .357 revolver. It's double action and its definitely no hair trigger..

That's not the case for my glock 27. Although it has a trigger safety, it's easy to disengage, and its got a single action hair trigger.

For home protection, especially for a first time gun owner, I'd highly recommend a revolver for safety, ease of use, and I believe accuracy. Anyone can fire it. I'd hate to see my panicked wife trying to chamber and fire my glock. I keep it chambered at the office, but wouldn't at the house probably.

Just my .02.

100% concur.

.357 mag is the most effective man stopper anyway, get a 4 1/2" barrel at least.

[Tasselhoff]

Pay for a membership to a gun range. Whatever you buy you will need practice. Most gun ranges will allow you to rent a variety of guns to try out on their range. This allows you to find a gun that "fits".
The membership will also likely get you discounted gun safety classes as well as discounted ccw, defensive shooting etc classes.
I love shooting. I own several guns. I believe in being properly trained before purchasing a gun.

[rpmGator]

Count me in on the .357 also. Lot's to learn about safety at first, and for a first time owner, just safer to shoot and carry.

It can use .38's also which is a much cheaper round, so you can practice with those and shoot more for less until you are ready to shoot the more powerful .357.

It is also easier to find ammo when you can shoot two different types.

At some point, you may run into a Biden rule on clip size, and revolvers won't be as much hassle down the road without any clip rules.

I am thinking a .12 guage double barrel coach gun for my next buy.

[g8orbill]

I love my browning sweet 16- if the first shot doesn't dust them as they intrude the next 2 certainly will

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

One of the best and affordable semi--automatic's on the market is a Sig Sauer SP2022. You can get them at Palmetto State Armory (http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms.html) for about $400 delivered. (not counting the FFL dealer background check fee). I own one and it is the best handgun I have ever, ever shot.

That said, I have gotten to the point that except for very tight places, I think the perfect home defense weapon is a shotgun. They can be deadly, but often are not. They will deter any intruder. The shooter does not have to be accurate to be effective. Very few people will stare down a shotgun without giving up. But if you are required to shoot and if the some of the shots hits the wall, ceiling or floor, unless buckshot is used, the shot will probably not penetrate with enough force to cause significant to damage to someone in another room that happens to be in the line of fire. Plus, using it for sport, like shooting clay pigeons is a LOT of fun.

Of course, one cannot carry it for car defense easily. Not is it useful for concealed carry.

I personally own three shotguns, three handguns and two rifles.

Also, when I am not target shooting, I load my handguns with hollow points. More stopping power plus the bullet spends itself more quickly in a wall, floor or ceiling in case of a miss.

[MichiGator2002]

I had looked at the SP2022 as well. "Looked at" is still at the "reading manufacturer information and reviews" stage. I am trying to make a manageable list of weapons I would like to handle instead of standing in a gun store like an insomniac night at Hollywood video or Blockbuster trying to find something to watch. Like 5 or 6 semiautomatics and revolvers each.

Anyone have any experience with the Steyr M9A1? Something about hoe it looks like it would sit in my hand is appealing. I am finding that any discussion about polymer semiautomatics on these sites all turn into unhelpful crossflaming between Glock lovers and Glock haters.

[wargunfan]

Count me in on the .357 also. Lot's to learn about safety at first, and for a first time owner, just safer to shoot and carry.

It can use .38's also which is a much cheaper round, so you can practice with those and shoot more for less until you are ready to shoot the more powerful .357.

It is also easier to find ammo when you can shoot two different types.

At some point, you may run into a Biden rule on clip size, and revolvers won't be as much hassle down the road without any clip rules.

I am thinking a .12 guage double barrel coach gun for my next buy.

You make an excellent point about revolvers not being subject to future magazine restrictions. Becoming proficient with speed loaders would be one answer to a revolvers limited capacity. A .357 with a couple of speed loaders would, with practice, be almost as effective as a semiauto.

[MichiGator2002]

Getting out in front of possible future magazine restrictions sounds like part of the appeal, though. If I got a 6-round revolver, I might feel like I am humoring the control lobby :)

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Getting out in front of possible future magazine restrictions sounds like part of the appeal, though. If I got a 6-round revolver, I might feel like I am humoring the control lobby :)

Any gun with a magazine that holds more than a 6 or 8 round s might not be as usefull for concealed carry.

My wife has a small, five round SW .38 revolver. When I want to carry, I usually strap that on the ankle or put it in my pocket instead of my sig.

[Minister_of_Information]

I had looked at the SP2022 as well. "Looked at" is still at the "reading manufacturer information and reviews" stage. I am trying to make a manageable list of weapons I would like to handle instead of standing in a gun store like an insomniac night at Hollywood video or Blockbuster trying to find something to watch. Like 5 or 6 semiautomatics and revolvers each.

Anyone have any experience with the Steyr M9A1? Something about hoe it looks like it would sit in my hand is appealing. I am finding that any discussion about polymer semiautomatics on these sites all turn into unhelpful crossflaming between Glock lovers and Glock haters.

I have a large hand as well. Don't know about the M9A1 but the Steyr GB80 was the best fitting and performing 9mm I ever shot. For pure home defense and most importantly deterrence -- other than a psycho who wants to kill someone unless it is absolutely necessary -- let me agree wholeheartedly with the shotgun idea. The sound of a pump shotgun alone will send most criminals scurrying like cockroaches when the light comes on. And if it doesn't, they are in a world of hurt. Stick with #4 Buckshot.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Here is a nice review of the SP2022 (http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/10/foghorn/gun-review-sig-sauer-sp2022/)

[Lawdog88]

Michi, for handgun self defense inside a dwelling, you also may consider keeping a reliable, small, and blinding flashlight, such as the Surefire Elite (cheaper 3v versions are out there as well), on the nightstand, to hold in the other hand away from your body, until you determine exactly what the threat is. I prefer hand-held instead of firearm mounted, for obvious defensive reasons.

Unless you have available light and / or don't care to determine exactly what the threat is before . . . .

Just an idea.

[Minister_of_Information]

A good tactical light on a shotgun... you own the night, unless someone throws a flashbang.

[Palhaco1]

The single biggest thing is what feels best in your hand. Go to a gun store and pick up several and see. There are pistols that will fit many hand sizes and many have interchangeable straps now. My three favorites are sig p226, HK45 or HKp30 and the Springfield xd series. The sig and HK are gonna be more pricey but are as reliable as any pistol made today. The Springfield is more price friendly and still has excellent reliability.

Go to a range, rent several and shoot them. Pick which one you shoot best and what caliber you are more accurate with.

[The_Graygator]

This seemed topical, and figured go ahead and start it in Too Hot to save moving it here later :)

I am looking at purchasing my first gun. I would like something that is suitable for self-defense, but I am not sure what I should look at in terms of size or style because I have pretty big hands and I am skeptical of being comfortable holding a lot of the compact models. I don't have any definite preference between a revolver and a pistol, or in terms of caliber, just want something reliable and (relatively, since it is a gun after all) fairly beginner friendly.

I will admit up front part of me wants to get something that I know takes high capacity magazines (Glock 19 9mm is one I saw, for instance), but mostly for the passive aggressive delight of being able to tell people that it would annoy that I own one. Other than that minor factor, I would consider anything.

I read some review sites, i.e. the truth about guns, but the bottom line is, I don't know enough. And until I take some classes and maybe find a range that rents, I still won't know. But I also trust the experience of our gunowning community.

A couple things that caught my eye in research were the Walther P99, the Sig 226 or 229, the SW M&P among the pistols, and any number of S&W or Taurus revolvers (I think the Judge sounds/looks awesome, but doesn't seem to review well in what I have seen?).

Anyway, figured both for my own advice but also anybody else that wants any or for our gunowners to talk about what they have and like and why, here is a thread.


First gun?

No, you do not want to go Glocks and slide SA/DA pistol right now, that is if you don;t have any experience with slide action/clip-fed pistols. If you do, if you understand how to operate one well enough, that's one thing, but for your first gun without much experience handling or firing handguns?

A revolver is the perfect platorm to buy, preferably a .38 with a 2 1/2 - 4 inch barrell. Good stopping power, and comes in varying sizes for conceal carry and transportation within a vehicle.


There are also smaller caliber revolvers that are .22's, 22 magnums (and don;t believe a .22 can't inflict a lot of damage, because the right .22 ammunition will), and .32's, .380's, and 9mm's.


If you go slide action, then go with the smaller .380, 9mm, or .40 for conceal carry or you can go with a Glock, or various 1911 style 9mm's. Plenty of great company brands like Rugar, Smith & Wesson, Glock, Springfield, Colt, etc.

If you're not used to handguns, go with a lighter caliber first and get used to it then move up.

Myself, I use a Ruger LC-9 9mm with a Crimson Trace laser for conceal carry. Also, for self defense, use jacketed hollow points as they are better for inflicting tissue damage on the target and won;t go through the target like a full metal jacket would, and injure someone behind the assailant.

[The_Graygator]

Honestly, I think I might buy a revolver for actual purpose and then buy an automatic with a 12+ round capacity magazine just to keep in a safe on general principle until such time as I want to master it. I wasn't kidding when I said I was at least partly motivated by the chance to offend someone ).

Revolver owners in particular, am I right that S&W, Ruger, Colt, these are the names in revolvers?


The one thing I suggest about owning a handgun is... take trainging courses using them. It's not about how many shots you have to fire, it's about how you handle the situation in the first place.

I would feel just as secure and safe with a 5 or 6 shot revolver (many today also go up to 8 rounds for bigger calibers too), because I know in an exchange, I will hit my target within 1 - 3 shots. Also, having a revolver speed loader available will help too.

As for my slide action LC-9, I always have a spare clip with it too.

[MichiGator2002]

Oh, I'm not purchasing anything until after I have done at the very least basic gun instruction, defensive training, etc -- every place seems to have their own curriculum they offer, obviously. In fact, if anyone knows a range with good instruction and ideally gun rental so I can try several options, in the Jacksonville area, I'd be all for it.

My position on the automatic is that I know I do want one, and therefore may buy one, but walk-before-we-run, and it would probably stay in its box, in a safe, until I've put several hundred rounds through it, as much as possible of which under instruction. I mean, the only point of this would be if myself and others would be safer for me having a gun, not in more danger.

As for a revolver, I have actually shot a .38 a few times before, but it's been years. That's the sort of thing I know I could refamiliarize myself with in fairly short order and rely on or even carry pretty quickly.

In a perfect world, I'd like to buy two guns, a revolver and an automatic, both suitable for personal/home defense and reasonably concealable for a big guy. The trick would be finding suitable quality and be out the door with both for $1000-$1200.

[gator10010]

For a first time gun owner, possibly looking at a 9mm, I would recommend the Browning 9mm High Power. This gun is safe, accurate, and easy to shoot. It's a simple and smooth gun perfect for a beginner.

[Minister_of_Information]

For a first time gun owner, possibly looking at a 9mm, I would recommend the Browning 9mm High Power. This gun is safe, accurate, and easy to shoot. It's a simple and smooth gun perfect for a beginner.

Disadvantage: compact frame. MichiGator has large hands.

[RealGatorFan]

This seemed topical, and figured go ahead and start it in Too Hot to save moving it here later :)

I am looking at purchasing my first gun. I would like something that is suitable for self-defense, but I am not sure what I should look at in terms of size or style because I have pretty big hands and I am skeptical of being comfortable holding a lot of the compact models. I don't have any definite preference between a revolver and a pistol, or in terms of caliber, just want something reliable and (relatively, since it is a gun after all) fairly beginner friendly.

I will admit up front part of me wants to get something that I know takes high capacity magazines (Glock 19 9mm is one I saw, for instance), but mostly for the passive aggressive delight of being able to tell people that it would annoy that I own one. Other than that minor factor, I would consider anything.

I read some review sites, i.e. the truth about guns, but the bottom line is, I don't know enough. And until I take some classes and maybe find a range that rents, I still won't know. But I also trust the experience of our gunowning community.

A couple things that caught my eye in research were the Walther P99, the Sig 226 or 229, the SW M&P among the pistols, and any number of S&W or Taurus revolvers (I think the Judge sounds/looks awesome, but doesn't seem to review well in what I have seen?).

Anyway, figured both for my own advice but also anybody else that wants any or for our gunowners to talk about what they have and like and why, here is a thread.

Home defense = Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 and for the love of God don't use slugs (they can miss the target, go through your wall or door and through the wall or door of your neighbor).
Personal defense = Glock or S&W .40 (don't get a .45)..My wife has a Walther P99 she loves

I also have a zombie katana just in case:-)

My advice to you if you really want to do it right is to go to a local gun range and see if they have any beginner packages. Usually these packages let you try out different models of revolvers and semi-automatics in addition to showing you which guns are harder on the trigger pull than others.

Here's where I go:

http://hoovertacticalfirearms.com/basic-handgun-training-class/

[tec68]

I recently got a Glock .40 that holds 14 in the magazine. I love it! It is the first handgun I have owned.

[The_Graygator]

If you're only going to purchase one gun and have no plans to conceal carry then you'll want to stay with a larger handgun. They are easier to shoot.

Revolvers. They can be a good choice and you don't have to worry about jams. If the round doesn't fire then just pull the trigger again. I think a .357 is the best option since the .38 is pretty inept as a round. The Ruger GP100 and the Taurus 608 are good choices. The Smith and Wesson models are good as well but cost a good bit more.

To me, the big downside is the limitation in the number of rounds. Usually 6. While the experts will tell you that most gun fights in home defense situations are limited to a few shots that doesn't really make me feel comfortable.

Semi-automatics. There are numerous options. I like to start with the caliber first. I prefer the .45ACP for home defense situations. But, 9mm, .40S&W and .357SIG are good choices as well.


.45ACP

Many people say the 1911 is the best gun out there but they can be quite expensive. And they usually have 8 or less in a clip. Take a look at Dan Wesson, Remington, Colt, Kimber, Para Ordinance and Springfield.

For non-1911 .45 I prefer the Glock 21. Shoots great, handles recoil well and holds 13 in a clip. It is reasonably priced as well. Others to consider: Sig 220, FNP 45, Springfield XP.

9mm/.40S&W/.357SIG

The 9mm doesn't have the stopping power that other two have but is still a strong caliber. I prefer Glocks, like the 17 or 22. However, the Beretta ninety-two, CZ 75, SIG 229 and S&W M&P are good choices as well.

Ruger and Taurus are good names to remember. They make solid guns (semi-automatic and revolvers) at good prices.

I would recommend you go to a gun shop and hold some of the models to make sure they fit your hand properly.


Totally disagree about .38 rounds.

I own a .357 magnum and fire a lot of .38 Special rounds through it (yes, 357's can fire .38 Special rounds), because they don't kick as much in shooting practice nor are they quaite as expensive.

Also, just a little advice on a round that doesn't fire. Once in a rare while, you'll get a bad round, but if you fire a round and you here a loud "pop!" from the gun but not the usually loud "bang!" discharge of the gun, DO NOT FIRE THE WEAPON AGAIN!

You most likely have a round stuck in the barrel, so keep the weapon pointed down range in front of you or at about 45 degrees down and wait for about 45 seconds to make sure the round is dead before inspecting the gun. You'dhave to take it to a gunsmith to let him clear the bad round becuse if you fired again, you could really have a result you wouldn't want. :wink:

[gator7_5]

Totally disagree about .38 rounds.



You'd be in the minority. Brain is absolutely correct. I plink with .38's. I wouldn't use them for home defense, and most knowledgable shooter wouldn't.

.357 all the way.

[The_Graygator]

I have a large hand as well. Don't know about the M9A1 but the Steyr GB80 was the best fitting and performing 9mm I ever shot. For pure home defense and most importantly deterrence -- other than a psycho who wants to kill someone unless it is absolutely necessary -- let me agree wholeheartedly with the shotgun idea. The sound of a pump shotgun alone will send most criminals scurrying like cockroaches when the light comes on. And if it doesn't, they are in a world of hurt. Stick with #4 Buckshot.


I have buckshot for all my shotguns, but always take a look at your surrounding houses and how close many are.

Map out your defense strategy within your own home an ddetermine what kind of weapon would best apply. If it's a shotgun, then think moderation.

Slugs? A big no-no in a crowded neighborhood. A slug, esepcially a 12 GA. slug, will easily go through an intruder and through a conder block wall an could even possibly penetrate another nearby home. Same goes with going through walls in your own home and possibly hitting another family member.

Myself, I wouldn;t use a 12 ga. inside, but I have a 20 ga. pistol grip riot gun for interior defense. Less flash-bang than a 12 ga. too.

That also goes with buckshot for interior home defense. Your best bet is to go with special HD (home defense) rounds or about #6 game loads (bird shot). Trust me, from 15 to 20 feet, a #6 or #7 game load is just as deadly and effective, and a lot less chance of hitting an un-intended target.

[The_Graygator]

Michi, for handgun self defense inside a dwelling, you also may consider keeping a reliable, small, and blinding flashlight, such as the Surefire Elite (cheaper 3v versions are out there as well), on the nightstand, to hold in the other hand away from your body, until you determine exactly what the threat is. I prefer hand-held instead of firearm mounted, for obvious defensive reasons.

Unless you have available light and / or don't care to determine exactly what the threat is before . . . .

Just an idea.


Spot on LAW. A lot of people attach their lights to their guns, but it's best to have them seperate. You dont want to be surprised in a tense situation and turn your firearm-mounted light on a family memeber.

[Row6]

This seemed topical, and figured go ahead and start it in Too Hot to save moving it here later :)

I am looking at purchasing my first gun. I would like something that is suitable for self-defense, but I am not sure what I should look at in terms of size or style because I have pretty big hands and I am skeptical of being comfortable holding a lot of the compact models. I don't have any definite preference between a revolver and a pistol, or in terms of caliber, just want something reliable and (relatively, since it is a gun after all) fairly beginner friendly.

I will admit up front part of me wants to get something that I know takes high capacity magazines (Glock 19 9mm is one I saw, for instance), but mostly for the passive aggressive delight of being able to tell people that it would annoy that I own one. Other than that minor factor, I would consider anything.

I read some review sites, i.e. the truth about guns, but the bottom line is, I don't know enough. And until I take some classes and maybe find a range that rents, I still won't know. But I also trust the experience of our gunowning community.

A couple things that caught my eye in research were the Walther P99, the Sig 226 or 229, the SW M&P among the pistols, and any number of S&W or Taurus revolvers (I think the Judge sounds/looks awesome, but doesn't seem to review well in what I have seen?).

Anyway, figured both for my own advice but also anybody else that wants any or for our gunowners to talk about what they have and like and why, here is a thread.

Thanks for the warning.

[The_Graygator]

Oh, I'm not purchasing anything until after I have done at the very least basic gun instruction, defensive training, etc -- every place seems to have their own curriculum they offer, obviously. In fact, if anyone knows a range with good instruction and ideally gun rental so I can try several options, in the Jacksonville area, I'd be all for it.

My position on the automatic is that I know I do want one, and therefore may buy one, but walk-before-we-run, and it would probably stay in its box, in a safe, until I've put several hundred rounds through it, as much as possible of which under instruction. I mean, the only point of this would be if myself and others would be safer for me having a gun, not in more danger.

As for a revolver, I have actually shot a .38 a few times before, but it's been years. That's the sort of thing I know I could refamiliarize myself with in fairly short order and rely on or even carry pretty quickly.

In a perfect world, I'd like to buy two guns, a revolver and an automatic, both suitable for personal/home defense and reasonably concealable for a big guy. The trick would be finding suitable quality and be out the door with both for $1000-$1200.



Good plan, but also having a longer ranged weapon like a 12 ga shotgun or a rifle (various calibers), gives you options, depending on where you live. I think everyone should own a shotgun for sheer stopping power.

[The_Graygator]

Disadvantage: compact frame. MichiGator has large hands.

Easily solved.

Many SA's today have extended clip attachments for just this situation. My LC-9 has an extention for extra gripping surface.

[The_Graygator]

You'd be in the minority. Brain is absolutely correct. I plink with .38's. I wouldn't use them for home defense, and most knowledgable shooter wouldn't.

.357 all the way.


Who's minority? Your's? lol

And I didn't say I used .38 rounds for home defense. You just read that into my post. I use 357 JHP's for home defense.

Btw, you go tell the many (and I mean MANY) law enforcement and former military people I know who own 357's and use .38 special rounds on the gun range they're "not knowledgeable about shooting". :laugh: You'd walk away feeling like a fool.

Btw, a .38 cal. isn't that far off from a 357 in stopping power, it just depends upon the type of ammunition you apply in each scenario to get the best results. Any knowledgeable shooter would know this. :ninja:

[gator7_5]

Who's minority? Your's? lol

And I didn't say I used .38 rounds for home defense. You just read that into my post. I use 357 JHP's for home defense.

Btw, you go tell the many (and I mean MANY) law enforcement and former military people I know who own 357's and use .38 special rounds on the gun range they're "not knowledgeable about shooting". :laugh: You'd walk away feeling like a fool.



Gray, re-read my post, and re-read Brain's as well. You're all over the place. You made a point to disagree with him, when he is absolutely correct. And I clearly made a point to say .38sp is what what I shoot through my .357 most often at the range.

Ad speaking relatively, the .38 is far off from a .357 as far as stopping power goes. You're friends with ALOT of officers, apparently. Do any of them carry .38's? Probably not. .40, 9mm, and .357 is the lilely answer.

That being said. Shot placement and practice counts more than any caliber.

[MichiGator2002]

Thanks for the warning.

Thanks for the board spam.

Easily solved.

Many SA's today have extended clip attachments for just this situation. My LC-9 has an extention for extra gripping surface.

Oddly enough, an LC-9 was one of the exact guns I was scrutinizing (online, the dimensions and pictures with a reference object) when it started to occur to me that this whole hand size thing might be an issue in choosing a weapon designed for concealed carry. I had the same concern looking at revolvers like the S&W Model 642 or the LC-R. My instinct is against wanting to depend on an extended magazine to obtain a comfortable grip on a semiautomatic (which, I should point out, I have held/dry-fired before, just not used as I have a revolver). Not sure where that leaves me on concealed carry -- the revolvers that look like they'd fit are like K-frames or semiautomatics of an intermediate size like the Glock 19.

I'm just sort of throwing internal monologue about this at you guys until I get a chance to go to an actual gunstore, but I appreciate the guidance so far.

[TnCamoGator]

I own a S&W .32 revolver that's about 50-60 years old and still operates just fine. I recommend revolvers simply because they are very easy to clean and maintain, easy to shoot for anyone especially good in case you are in a bad situation. They also fail a lot less than semi-autos and don't jam like some semi's do.

The drawbacks of revolvers are not being as fast as semi-autos, and not having a complete safety. If you don't feel comfortable letting down the hammer manually in a situation you can't shoot then don't get one because you need to be confident in yourself to not let it slip and accidentally fire.

It's all about what your capable of handling.

[rpmGator]

Our military went from .38's to the .45 due to lessons learned in war. Guys were getting killed after they shot someone as it wounded too many that kept fighting back.

The 9mm isn't much better than the 38 on stopping power.

Go with a .357 and use the .38's for practice. Or if you go auto, at least a .40 cal. It has better stopping power than smaller rounds, and more rounds than the .45. Most of the cops around here go .40 due to those dual reasons.

But its hard to beat a shotgun inside a home. I don't use OO buckshot, fewer pellets and it iimits the spead and causes a lot of damage to your own home.

#2's or even 4's give you a lot more pellets and spread the shot out a bit more. At those ranges, it works fine.

Best advice is to get a .22 like the more powerful weapon you are going to use. Auto or revolver and shoot it often as it is much cheaper and safer to learn the way they work, and you can move up size without much change in your shooting style.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Honestly, I would wait for the current insanity to die down unless you desperately need one right now or are getting a really good price.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Yeah I can't even imagine what buckshot would be like inside a house. At the same time, it's a guaranteed way of hitting someone when you're jarred awake at 3 a.m.

[Row6]

For home defense get a pump shotgun. Hopefully the sound of the pump gets the intruder jumping out of a window before you have to use it. Also, you don't have to be a very good shot.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Yeah I can't even imagine what buckshot would be like inside a house. At the same time, it's a guaranteed way of hitting someone when you're jarred awake at 3 a.m.

I keep turkey loads beside my 12 gauge in my bedroom. I think those would do the trick and still provide safety.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

For home defense get a pump shotgun. Hopefully the sound of the pump gets the intruder jumping out of a window before you have to use it. Also, you don't have to be a very good shot.

Never pick up a gun unless you intend to use it. I'd rather have the tool that will absolutely get the job done than one that I can hope will scare someone into avoiding it.

[rpmGator]

Alerting an armed intruder, is not the best way. You give up your only advantage.

[The_Graygator]

Gray, re-read my post, and re-read Brain's as well. You're all over the place. You made a point to disagree with him, when he is absolutely correct. And I clearly made a point to say .38sp is what what I shoot through my .357 most often at the range.

Ad speaking relatively, the .38 is far off from a .357 as far as stopping power goes. You're friends with ALOT of officers, apparently. Do any of them carry .38's? Probably not. .40, 9mm, and .357 is the lilely answer.

That being said. Shot placement and practice counts more than any caliber.


Sorry bud, but you sort of stepped in it so I nailed you with a little good elbow ribbin'. :wink:

No harm intended of course. :joecool:

[Minister_of_Information]

Alerting an armed intruder, is not the best way. You give up your only advantage.

False, odds are you've just demonstrated that the intruder is seriously outgunned. And by giving him the opportunity to flee, you've probably just saved yourself several thousand dollars in attorneys fees, and that's assuming that you aren't charged. DGUs rarely involve the discharge of a firearm, and you can rack the gun as a deterrent (and as a preparation to fire, since no shotgun should be kept cocked and locked) before a confrontation occurs. Let it also be said that the racking sound accompanied by shouted orders for the intruder to leave the house immediately should be the only warning. After that shoot to kill. Do not use less lethal ammo either.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

There is absolutely no way I'm giving a verbal warning if someone is in my house. Legal fees would be the absolute least of my concerns.

[Minister_of_Information]

There is absolutely no way I'm giving a verbal warning if someone is in my house. Legal fees would be the absolute least of my concerns.

So you have your family under your protection in your bedroom, you are going to take your shotgun and leave your family behind and sneak out ninja style into harms way so you can cap the burglars like SEAL team 6? If so you have extraordinarily bad judgment, especially when you can just yell out "I have a shotgun, I've just called the police, GET THE HELL OUT OF MY HOUSE WHILE YOU STILL CAN!" I'd bet that racking the gun after that statement would resolve the problem 95% of the time. And if it didn't, I'm sure you'd take some of them with you.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

There is obviously an accounting job to be done before making that move, none of which involves announcing myself to the intruder only to be shot right in the face.

This was a lesson imposed on me when I took shooting lessons years ago.

[The_Graygator]

Our military went from .38's to the .45 due to lessons learned in war. Guys were getting killed after they shot someone as it wounded too many that kept fighting back.

The 9mm isn't much better than the 38 on stopping power.

Go with a .357 and use the .38's for practice. Or if you go auto, at least a .40 cal. It has better stopping power than smaller rounds, and more rounds than the .45. Most of the cops around here go .40 due to those dual reasons.

But its hard to beat a shotgun inside a home. I don't use OO buckshot, fewer pellets and it iimits the spead and causes a lot of damage to your own home.

#2's or even 4's give you a lot more pellets and spread the shot out a bit more. At those ranges, it works fine.

Best advice is to get a .22 like the more powerful weapon you are going to use. Auto or revolver and shoot it often as it is much cheaper and safer to learn the way they work, and you can move up size without much change in your shooting style.



45's stopping power is about equal to a 357's when you use the right ammo. I have a regent 1911 45 cal. and love the platform. 1911's and Baretta M9/2's are some of the nicest hand-held pistol platforms I've ever fired. That, of course, is with a bit of a larger hand surface.

I use a special HP round (pretty expensive home defense round) for the house, but usually, when you're using full matal jackets with a 45, you will fire right through the target and sometimes, they'll still be ableto fire back before they go down.

JHP's for max tissue damage are best for qucik, personal defense on most any caliber.

What I've found is that most "larger" calibers ranging from .40 on up will completely pneetrate a human target and tend to hit another behind it when you're using full metal jackets. Use JHP's which tend to expand and grab more tissue interbally and not penetrate all the way through when you're using .40 on up.

[The_Graygator]

Thanks for the board spam.



Oddly enough, an LC-9 was one of the exact guns I was scrutinizing (online, the dimensions and pictures with a reference object) when it started to occur to me that this whole hand size thing might be an issue in choosing a weapon designed for concealed carry. I had the same concern looking at revolvers like the S&W Model 642 or the LC-R. My instinct is against wanting to depend on an extended magazine to obtain a comfortable grip on a semiautomatic (which, I should point out, I have held/dry-fired before, just not used as I have a revolver). Not sure where that leaves me on concealed carry -- the revolvers that look like they'd fit are like K-frames or semiautomatics of an intermediate size like the Glock 19.

I'm just sort of throwing internal monologue about this at you guys until I get a chance to go to an actual gunstore, but I appreciate the guidance so far.

Interesting stuff, but just to let you is on a little manufacturing secret... S&W, as very well a machined product as their firearms are, you can also buy a number of the Taurus calibers and variants of r slide and cylinder action pistols and get the same quality as they are biult from the same S&W machining molds.

Taurus revolvers and slide/actions (and Rossi brand as a matter of fact), are all buiult from the same S&W machine molds and are fine hand weapons.

I would buy a Taurus make just as soon as buying a Ruger or S&W, but I prefer Ruger, who I honestly believe makes a better .357 platform than S&W, especially in the GP100 series.

Ruger is one of the top of the libne pistol and rifle makers in the business today IMO.

LC-9's are excellent compact conceal carr7y and I love to carry mine all the time, mostly in an ankle holster. It has the extended finger magazine finger grip, and it is just about 6 total inches in length and weighs in at about 23 ounces loded with a 7 + 1 magazine. I also have the Crimson Trace laser package on it it and bought the entire pistol and laser for right at $500. Excellent deal and quality.

Btw, a laser is superb for home defense. In the dark with an intruder in the house, you don;t have to worry about using the sights to aim, you can just put the laser on the target and usually hit within 1 - 2 inches of the intended target. If you sight an inturder, put the laser in the middle of their chest in-between the pockets and pull the trigger, and it'll only take one 9mm JHP and they're down for the count.

[MichiGator2002]

Well, I got to visit a store today since I was asking about their basic instruction (waiting list out to June? There has to be a more efficient way to get shown my way around a gun), got to handle a few. A compact Smith & Wesson, not sure which model, the grip stopped a good half inch above the side of my hand. Just felt unwieldy. Glock 19 felt much more comfortable. I wanted to hold the Springfield XDM, but since I was just window shopping I didn't want to take them from possible buyers. On a funny note, the impractical sounding Taurus Judge that I thought looked cool in pictures looked completely ridiculous in the display case.

I think the next step is to find available lessons. Might window shop a bit more to handle some more for the comfort check. If I can't find something I think I could conceal comfortably, I will just find something that is comfortable that would keep me coming to the range and be suitable for home/car.

EDIT: didn't get to handle any revolvers, but held my hand up for scale. The ones I think would fit well in my hand, like a 686 for example, again seem like they would be more home/car than carry. It is still 66.66% more coverage than I have now from a defense standpoint, and a notable upgrade from the billy club I have kept in the car for years.

[The_Graygator]

I own a S&W .32 revolver that's about 50-60 years old and still operates just fine. I recommend revolvers simply because they are very easy to clean and maintain, easy to shoot for anyone especially good in case you are in a bad situation. They also fail a lot less than semi-autos and don't jam like some semi's do.

The drawbacks of revolvers are not being as fast as semi-autos, and not having a complete safety. If you don't feel comfortable letting down the hammer manually in a situation you can't shoot then don't get one because you need to be confident in yourself to not let it slip and accidentally fire.

It's all about what your capable of handling.


Got one that is over 90 years old. Belonged to my gandfather. Just last year, I took it over to a gunsmith in Tally to have it fixed and cleaned for only $30.

[The_Graygator]

There is absolutely no way I'm giving a verbal warning if someone is in my house. Legal fees would be the absolute least of my concerns.

I tend to agree with this, althought there are certain variables involved for me. If it's a couple of these little punk kids in my neighborhood who enjoy just breaking in and stealing and trshing peoples' houses, I'd probably issue a "stand down" order after I've acquired a safe shooting position.

If it was an adult, they're going down right then and there; no warning.

[The_Graygator]

Well, I got to visit a store today since I was asking about their basic instruction (waiting list out to June? There has to be a more efficient way to get shown my way around a gun), got to handle a few. A compact Smith & Wesson, not sure which model, the grip stopped a good half inch above the side of my hand. Just felt unwieldy. Glock 19 felt much more comfortable. I wanted to hold the Springfield XDM, but since I was just window shopping I didn't want to take them from possible buyers. On a funny note, the impractical sounding Taurus Judge that I thought looked cool in pictures looked completely ridiculous in the display case.

I think the next step is to find available lessons. Might window shop a bit more to handle some more for the comfort check. If I can't find something I think I could conceal comfortably, I will just find something that is comfortable that would keep me coming to the range and be suitable for home/car.

EDIT: didn't get to handle any revolvers, but held my hand up for scale. The ones I think would fit well in my hand, like a 686 for example, again seem like they would be more home/car than carry. It is still 66.66% more coverage than I have now from a defense standpoint, and a notable upgrade from the billy club I have kept in the car for years.

In all honesty, Judges and Governors are best for campers when dealing with snakes and other animal pests from my experience. They're also good for shooting foul close range for food too.

And if you go revolver, get a rubber grip with a thumb stop. :wink:

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

False, odds are you've just demonstrated that the intruder is seriously outgunned. And by giving him the opportunity to flee, you've probably just saved yourself several thousand dollars in attorneys fees, and that's assuming that you aren't charged. DGUs rarely involve the discharge of a firearm, and you can rack the gun as a deterrent (and as a preparation to fire, since no shotgun should be kept cocked and locked) before a confrontation occurs. Let it also be said that the racking sound accompanied by shouted orders for the intruder to leave the house immediately should be the only warning. After that shoot to kill. Do not use less lethal ammo either.

Completely agree. Plus if it is a friendly in the house, doing so can avoid a tragic accident.

I travel some, so my wife spends some time alone. She locks the bedroom door when I am away. If someone comes into the house and tries to break in the bedroom, she knows to shout, "I am armed and will use the weapon!" Seems like a good way to avoid shooting one of the kids or me if we unexpectedly come home. Or shoot a police officer with a no knock warrant served on the wrong house. Or any number of things.

I would do the same thing.