Coach Meyer on Tim Tebow

[UFLAW81]

. "I think that his coaching transition is a big part of it, with the guy that drafted him in the first round getting fired immediately. "http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/jets/2013/01/17/tim-tebow-urban-meyer/1843049/

[geauxgator1]

Well, those of us who follow Tebow can probably agree he's had some unusual circumstances to deal with, not the least of which was the firing of Mcdaniels. I would agree with Meyer, but no great revealation there. Also, new coordinators every year, a club president that wanted him out, and a couple of stooges in NY didn't help. TT apparently didn't wow anybody in NY, but even if he did, i don't think the coaching staff wanted him. Hope he can find a club that will work with him. He makes the NFL more exciting to watch, good, bad or inbetween.

[hgators]

Did he add that Tim is one of his very best friends in the world?

[gator85jd]

What's been the biggest obstacle in the stalling career of NFL quarterback Tim Tebow?

It's that his college coach allowed Tim Tebow to be Tim Tebow and didn't demand that the quarterbacks coach work with him to develop his skills. Tebow will be perhaps the greatest football player ever at UF, but how did Tim improve from his freshman year to his senior year?

[secgator]

What's been the biggest obstacle in the stalling career of NFL quarterback Tim Tebow?

It's that his college coach allowed Tim Tebow to be Tim Tebow and didn't demand that the quarterbacks coach work with him to develop his skills. Tebow will be perhaps the greatest football player ever at UF, but how did Tim improve from his freshman year to his senior year?

IMO, he improved his degree of patience---having to deal with some of the inept playcalling his senior year was atrocious. Whether it was Addazio or Urban calling them--most of the time they sucked. Yet Tim just did what was asked of him.

To me--that level of patience and tolerance was an improvement over what most other humans could deal with.

[atlantagator86]

I know some people won't like me taking this position, and I'm as big a fan of Tebow as there is, but the same argument that is being made for why Tebow hasn't had success in the NFL can be said about the vast majority of players that have ever played in the NFL. Very few guys land in the perfect situation.

Most NFL players have had to deal with coaching changes and not being in a system that is optimal for their skills. The ones who make it and stay in the league are the guys who make the most of the opportunities they get.

The bottom line is that when Tebow has been in games, he really hasn't done a whole lot up to now to take the job from anybody and he's been behind arguably the 2 worst starting QBs in the NFL.

[Spurffelbow833]

The bottom line is that when Tebow has been in games, he really hasn't done a whole lot up to now to take the job from anybody.

Did you even watch the Broncos in 2011?

[TheRaid]

Did you even watch the Broncos in 2011?

This.

it is remarkable how people show their ignorance and lack of having watched Tebow take a lousy team that got rid of their receives and hu
his coach and set him up to fail and yet took them to a playof win. Hasn't done anything? how absurd.

[theghost]

Did you even watch the Broncos in 2011?

Didn't he set an NFL record for only having 2 completions in a victory?

We all love Tebow, but how many NFL coaches & executives have to call a spade a spade before you start believing that he may not be a successful quarterback in the NFL? I would love to see him get another "chance"....but I also think John Elway and the many other NFL "people" who have chosen to take another route (other than going w/ Tebow) know what they are talking about. Look at Seattle; they traded for Flynn and he sat on the bench behind a 5'10 3rd round draft choice. Most of you act like it's some sort of conspiracy. These teams invest thousands of hours studying, scouting, and developing players. I'm going to believe that it's not some evil conspiracy...and maybe he's just not going to be an NFL QB.

[int1974]

Tim won 7 games and 1 playoff game, Gabbert won 2 games yet "No we don't want Tim in Jax" I want the 2 win QB with one of the worst ratings for a QB.

I thought it would take Tim 3 years to develope, and i still think he can win games in the NFL. Reps, Reps is what he is missing. Seeing all the different D's and learn each game.

[grant1]

What's been the biggest obstacle in the stalling career of NFL quarterback Tim Tebow?

It's that his college coach allowed Tim Tebow to be Tim Tebow and didn't demand that the quarterbacks coach work with him to develop his skills. Tebow will be perhaps the greatest football player ever at UF, but how did Tim improve from his freshman year to his senior year?

About as much as Cam Newton improved from the time he arrive to the time he left. I've alwasys maintained that we sorely lacked adequate QB coaching under Meyer.

[og8trz]

Please send me the worst QB coach in the Universe and let our QB's remain at the very same level for all 4 years if we can win 2 crystal footballs in 4 years!

Some of you guys believe what you read in the newspaper. Gorbachov would have loved you because you would have believed every word Pravda printed.

The reason Tim is "Controversial" and Ray Lewis is not is Tim's overt Christianity. Lewis very likely played a major role in two murders, but he is forgiven.

The fact is, Tim took over a woeful 1-4 team in Denver and the sheer force of his will, got them to, and won a playoff game. No one in America was praising Denver's defense or their WR's until they were faced with giving credit. They would rather stuff hot butter up a wildcat's fanny in a phone booth than attribute the wins to a practicing Christian.

If he doesnt' complete a single pass, but you win, what difference does that make? Billy Kilmer, Joe Kapp and Fran Tarkenton all had unusual styles, but won a lot of NFL games. Tim threw 88 TD's and 16 INT's at UF against SEC competition. I don't care if you punt it down there, that is exceptional!

He also did a great job of avoiding turnovers when he started for Denver. Ask Peyton Manning how important TO's can be!!

[superman2318]

He was worked with st uf. To the point of them hooking him up to a video game development type of computer that measured him and every flaw in his throwing motion. Its what helped him throw for 3200 yards. But after the ole miss lose, and lack luster play and UM noticed how uncomfortable he was, was when he told him to just go out there and have some fun, to just be Tim Tebow.

[Bushmaster]

The best thing for Tebow is to land somewhere with a high profile quarterback who is THE MAN. He has been on two teams where the chants started almost immediately because the current starter just sucked.

Green Bay, NE, NO are places he should seek out as their QBs are into their 30s, Tim could serve as a capable backup, learn how to hit the tight throws, and be allowed to develop without the pressure or qb controversy.

NFL guys aren't that smart. There are way more draft busts than successes. Hell, we have lists for draft busts there are so many of them, and not just at the QB position. But with draft busts, those guys were given a chance. Tim has not and has a winning record as a starter. No GM wants the Tebow drama on his team or locker room. Those three teams I mentioned wouldn't have that because Tebow would be the solid backup and no one would be screaming for him to start.

[elrongator]

I'd love to see how Belichick would utilize Tim.
Won't likely ever happen, but I'd love to see it.

[Jellyrolls]

I'd love to see how Belichick would utilize Tim.
Won't likely ever happen, but I'd love to see it.

I don't see that happening. Belichick has a gunslinger coming in after Brady.

[UFLAW81]

I'm not sure why the press is asking Corch Meyer about Tim anyway.
Give Corch Meyer some respect for even answering the questions.

[gatordee]

I know some people won't like me taking this position, and I'm as big a fan of Tebow as there is, but the same argument that is being made for why Tebow hasn't had success in the NFL can be said about the vast majority of players that have ever played in the NFL. Very few guys land in the perfect situation.

Most NFL players have had to deal with coaching changes and not being in a system that is optimal for their skills. The ones who make it and stay in the league are the guys who make the most of the opportunities they get.

The bottom line is that when Tebow has been in games, he really hasn't done a whole lot up to now to take the job from anybody and he's been behind arguably the 2 worst starting QBs in the NFL.

He took over a Denver team with a losing record and was one game from playing for the division championship. And he has yet been given a full year with a team to prove what he can do.

[atlantagator86]

He took over a Denver team with a losing record and was one game from playing for the division championship. And he has yet been given a full year with a team to prove what he can do.

Some of you guys kill me how you can you see just what you want to see.

Yes, Tebow took Denver to the playoffs and even won a wildcard playoff game. But too many of you are quick to credit Tebow alone for Denver's turnaround.

While everyone is quick to remember how Tebow turned Denver around, they forget that Denver lost their last 3 regular seasons games, getting blown out by New England and Buffalo and losing to KC and then getting blown out by New England again in the playoffs. The Broncos were 1-4 in their final 5 games last year, including 3 blowouts.

Plus, last year Tebow had a completion percentage of 46.5% and a QB rating of 72.9. No team is going to build their offense around a QB with a sub-50% completion percentage and QB rating that low.

And then fast forward to this year, the Broncos bring in Manning and go 13-3, the best record in the AFC, with largely the same team. Do any of you seriously think Elway made a mistake not building his team around Tebow?!?!

I believe the Denver improvement last year shows not so much how good Tebow is but how horrible Orton was.

I have little doubt that somebody will give Tebow a chance next year, but unlike many of you, I believe he will probably be brought in as a 3rd QB and have to take the job from whoever's in front of him. But NOBODY is going to bring Tebow in as the guy they build their offense around.

I honestly wouldn't be totally surprised to see a team like Washington, San Francisco, Seattle, Philly or Carolina pick up Tebow as a backup to their mobile QBs. How ironic would it be for Tebow to be Newton's back-up?!?!?!

[GatorStang]

Please send me the worst QB coach in the Universe and let our QB's remain at the very same level for all 4 years if we can win 2 crystal footballs in 4 years!

Some of you guys believe what you read in the newspaper. Gorbachov would have loved you because you would have believed every word Pravda printed.

The reason Tim is "Controversial" and Ray Lewis is not is Tim's overt Christianity. Lewis very likely played a major role in two murders, but he is forgiven.

The fact is, Tim took over a woeful 1-4 team in Denver and the sheer force of his will, got them to, and won a playoff game. No one in America was praising Denver's defense or their WR's until they were faced with giving credit. They would rather stuff hot butter up a wildcat's fanny in a phone booth than attribute the wins to a practicing Christian.

If he doesnt' complete a single pass, but you win, what difference does that make? Billy Kilmer, Joe Kapp and Fran Tarkenton all had unusual styles, but won a lot of NFL games. Tim threw 88 TD's and 16 INT's at UF against SEC competition. I don't care if you punt it down there, that is exceptional!

He also did a great job of avoiding turnovers when he started for Denver. Ask Peyton Manning how important TO's can be!!

Ignorance in bold... It has NOTHING to do with Tim being a Christian... have you not heard Lewis EVER speak? He's just as much a Christian as Tim, but Lewis is the "prototypical" LB where Tim was/is not a prototypical QB. That's why Ray gets love and Tim does not.

I want to Tim to just get a chance, let him do what these other kids get to do now because that's what he does best.

[jmike131014]

Hard work beats talent all day long. It only takes one team to believe in Tim, If one believes then everything else will take care of itself.. It gotta be an offense like San Fran or Washington . Let Tim do his thing

[tilly]

Hard work beats talent all day long.

Alan Iverson says hello ;)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country

[rserina]

What's been the biggest obstacle in the stalling career of NFL quarterback Tim Tebow?

It's that his college coach allowed Tim Tebow to be Tim Tebow and didn't demand that the quarterbacks coach work with him to develop his skills. Tebow will be perhaps the greatest football player ever at UF, but how did Tim improve from his freshman year to his senior year?
Now we are blaming Meyer for "stalling the career" of Tebow. Alright. Need scapegoats much?

[gator85jd]

Now we are blaming Meyer for "stalling the career" of Tebow. Alright. Need scapegoats much?

How did Tim improve from his freshman year to his senior year?

[jdiggy03]

I'm not sure why the press is asking Corch Meyer about Tim anyway.
Give Corch Meyer some respect for even answering the questions.

Hahahaha

[bofusgators]

I hope TT can find a place to be happy and that the place is happy with him. He deserves this much.

[GatorStang]

How did Tim improve from his freshman year to his senior year?

Went from being a "change up" player to LEADING the team to back to back 13-1 seasons with NC and sugar bowl victories?

[MaceoP]

IMO, Tim's passing went downhill after Mullen left. Tim's senior year, in 9 SEC games, he passed for over 200 yards in 3 games, he passed for over 300 yards 0 games. In the Arkansas game, he rushed 27 times.

In 2009, Addazio and Meyer rode Tim almost all the way to the championship. It all came apart against Bama.

It's mind boggling to think that Tim passed for over 200 yards in only 3 out of 9 games in his senior year.

[PIMking]

Dude hasn't had the same oc for the last 4 years.

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

[gator85jd]

Went from being a "change up" player to LEADING the team to back to back 13-1 seasons with NC and sugar bowl victories?

But, but, but . . . . the team was winning. The quarterback's development HAD to be progressing. How could they win if not??? :laugh::laugh::laugh:

[sleeze]

Alan Iverson says hello ;)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country

Hard work...made AI good while growing up...he is one of the quickest ever...but he still spent many afternoons on that crossover.

He might have gotten lazy later on in life.

[Spurffelbow833]

Now we are blaming Meyer for "stalling the career" of Tebow. Alright. Need scapegoats much?

I take cheap shots at Urban as much as anyone, but I blame collusion on the part of the NFL way more than I blame Urban Meyer for Tim's struggles. Even if this is true, Urban Meyer was the head coach of the Florida Gators. As such, it was his job to see to it that the Gators won games, not to develop any one player at the expense of benefitting from what that player could contribute to the team immediately for the sake of the present.

[LimeyGator]

Phew.

I have to confess it's taken a couple days for me to be brave enough to open this thread.

I was expecting more LSUFreak work here, based purely on the thread title. I mean, I know they're good friends n' all but...

[Spurffelbow833]

When he's in Shelley's doghouse, Urban probably sleeps on the same couch Tim has slept on from time to time. Perhaps we could get Verne Lundquist to move on from the Tim and Riley are roommates line to this.

[gator0316]

Maybe coach kelly who just took over a pro team and runs the spread will be interested in tim

[Wormwood56]

Some of you guys kill me how you can you see just what you want to see.

Yes, Tebow took Denver to the playoffs and even won a wildcard playoff game. But too many of you are quick to credit Tebow alone for Denver's turnaround.

While everyone is quick to remember how Tebow turned Denver around, they forget that Denver lost their last 3 regular seasons games, getting blown out by New England and Buffalo and losing to KC and then getting blown out by New England again in the playoffs. The Broncos were 1-4 in their final 5 games last year, including 3 blowouts.

Plus, last year Tebow had a completion percentage of 46.5% and a QB rating of 72.9. No team is going to build their offense around a QB with a sub-50% completion percentage and QB rating that low.

And then fast forward to this year, the Broncos bring in Manning and go 13-3, the best record in the AFC, with largely the same team. Do any of you seriously think Elway made a mistake not building his team around Tebow?!?!

I believe the Denver improvement last year shows not so much how good Tebow is but how horrible Orton was.

I have little doubt that somebody will give Tebow a chance next year, but unlike many of you, I believe he will probably be brought in as a 3rd QB and have to take the job from whoever's in front of him. But NOBODY is going to bring Tebow in as the guy they build their offense around.

I honestly wouldn't be totally surprised to see a team like Washington, San Francisco, Seattle, Philly or Carolina pick up Tebow as a backup to their mobile QBs. How ironic would it be for Tebow to be Newton's back-up?!?!?!

This is going to be a very unpopular viewpoint here, but it is accurate. I remember the discussions we had here regarding Tim's NFL viability as a quarterback when he was still here. Tim's astonishing passing numbers were due in large part to his devastating running ability. Defenses could not afford to drop players back in pass coverage for fear that Tim would tear off a 20 yard rumble up the middle. When Tim had single coverage on his receivers at the college game, he was in heaven.

But the NFL game is far tougher. Opposing defenses did not have to put eight in the box to stop Tim on the ground, and NFL defensive backs are FAR, FAR better than their college counterparts, as Steve Spurrier learned the hard way at Washington. They are faster, stronger, and most importantly, FAR more intelligent and experienced.

But it was equally clear that Tim was not a very good pro-style quarterback, and that if he didn't have his running game as an integral part of his total game, his effectiveness as a passer dropped precipitously. Remember after the Concussion Heard 'Round The World? Meyer reduced Tebow's runs, and the offense struggled. I've often said that if one could attach Chris Leak's cerebral skills and poise to all the gifts Tebow had, he'd possibly wind up at Canton with his own bust.

I am grateful for having experienced Tim with the Florida Gators, and while I wish him the very best in his NFL endeavors, the fact is that if he doesn't play another down of college football and returns to the mission, it doesn't drop the esteem he has in my eyes one iota. The NFL is a different game from the college game, requiring different skill sets.

[LimeyGator]

This is going to be a very unpopular viewpoint here, but it is accurate. I remember the discussions we had here regarding Tim's NFL viability as a quarterback when he was still here. Tim's astonishing passing numbers were due in large part to his devastating running ability. Defenses could not afford to drop players back in pass coverage for fear that Tim would tear off a 20 yard rumble up the middle. When Tim had single coverage on his receivers at the college game, he was in heaven.

But the NFL game is far tougher. Opposing defenses did not have to put eight in the box to stop Tim on the ground, and NFL defensive backs are FAR, FAR better than their college counterparts, as Steve Spurrier learned the hard way at Washington. They are faster, stronger, and most importantly, FAR more intelligent and experienced.

But it was equally clear that Tim was not a very good pro-style quarterback, and that if he didn't have his running game as an integral part of his total game, his effectiveness as a passer dropped precipitously. Remember after the Concussion Heard 'Round The World? Meyer reduced Tebow's runs, and the offense struggled. I've often said that if one could attach Chris Leak's cerebral skills and poise to all the gifts Tebow had, he'd possibly wind up at Canton with his own bust.

I am grateful for having experienced Tim with the Florida Gators, and while I wish him the very best in his NFL endeavors, the fact is that if he doesn't play another down of college football and returns to the mission, it doesn't drop the esteem he has in my eyes one iota. The NFL is a different game from the college game, requiring different skill sets.

Unpopular viewpoint or not, that's a rational, considered and well put response.

I'm a huge Timmy fan and really want him to succeed but you summarise the situation very nicely.

[TheRaid]

Would like to have seen Spurrier coach in the NFL with a real QB just one season. Would have liked to see Tebow play in the NFL with receivers and a coach that believes in him for at least one full season. Neither happened. Denver was shocked Tebow did anything with minimal WR talent around him. They brought in Peyton's hand picked talent for Peyton. Spurrier got a rookie from Temple. Both Tebow and SOS got screwed and fans were robbed of enjoying either.

[tommyvee]

Tim just needs a coach to believe in him. He looked great passing at the end of his rookie year after McDaniels got fired. Last year with Denver, he looked to be over thinking at the position. He played to minimize mistakes to allow them to be in position to win it late.

Let him play his game using the read option to his advantage. Tim's not a pocket passer curerntly, but that doesn't mean he can't improve at it. He just needs live reps.

[GatorStang]

Unpopular viewpoint or not, that's a rational, considered and well put response.

I'm a huge Timmy fan and really want him to succeed but you summarise the situation very nicely.

+1

[Speedofsand]

Plus, last year Tebow had a completion percentage of 46.5% and a QB rating of 72.9. No team is going to build their offense around a QB with a sub-50% completion percentage and QB rating that low.

And then fast forward to this year, the Broncos bring in Manning and go 13-3, the best record in the AFC, with largely the same team. Do any of you seriously think Elway made a mistake not building his team around Tebow?!?!

I believe the Denver improvement last year shows not so much how good Tebow is but how horrible Orton was.

Look up Mike Vick's career completion % numbers by year and get back to me about staying with a QB in an offense.

Talk about seeing only what you want to see, did you not see that Denver brought in 2 of Manning's favorite targets from Indy and a new D.C. in DelRio that made major improvements in Denver's defense over 2011?

You believe Denver won because they benched Orton, not because they played Tebow?

[atlantagator86]

Look up Mike Vick's career completion % numbers by year and get back to me about staying with a QB in an offense.

Talk about seeing only what you want to see, did you not see that Denver brought in 2 of Manning's favorite targets from Indy and a new D.C. in DelRio that made major improvements in Denver's defense over 2011?

You believe Denver won because they benched Orton, not because they played Tebow?

Just did and I'm getting back to you!!

Vick has only had 2 of his 10 seasons where his completion percentage was below 50% and that was his first seasons in Atlanta and Philly. And only 2 seasons where his QB rating was below 72.9, which was his first and third season. Vick's career completion percentage is 56.3 and his QB rating is 80.6. In 2010, Vick's completion percentage was 62.6 and his QB rating was 100.2, 4th highest in the NFL.

Oh, and by the way, this year Vick's completion percentage was 58.1 and his QB rating was 78.1 and the Eagles are talking about dumping him.

What I believe is that Tebow was BETTER than Orton (who was horrible) and he gave a team that had already given up a spark that carried them for a while.

[atlantagator86]

... I blame collusion on the part of the NFL way more than I blame Urban Meyer for Tim's struggles ...

WOW! Really?!?!

Do you really honestly think that NFL teams, which are all businesses who will do ANYTHING to make money, and are willing to let a guy like Ray Lewis pay nothing for what he was almost surely involved in and gave Michael Vick a second chance, have all gotten together and conspired to keep Tebow from being successful?!?!

Do you also believe JFK's assassination was a hoax or that the government staged the moon landing?!

Or is is maybe is it more that Tebow (not really by his own fault) has become such a media spectacle that rubs many NFL players wrong and has become such a polarizing figure with fans and in the locker room, that he becomes a distraction.

Again, I don't think Tebow is to blame for the attention and Tebow's attention is different, but in many ways, I think GMs and coached view Tebow a little bit like they viewed having Terrell Owens or Chad "Ocho Cinco" Johnson. They have to view whether the contribution these guys bring to the team are worth the media circus and potential distractions these guys bring with them.

For a period, Owens and Johnson were such contributors that it was worth it. But later in their careers, as production started to drop, it became a much more difficult question. Tebow hasn't had that kind of production to date, so the answer for most teams is pretty easy.

[Speedofsand]

Just did and I'm getting back to you!!

Vick has only had 2 of his 10 seasons where his completion percentage was below 50% and that was his first seasons in Atlanta and Philly.

Isn't it amazing that he was given a chance to play again each of the following years? Tebow has one combined year of starts and won, yet he has been labeled a bust.

[atlantagator86]

Isn't it amazing that he was given a chance to play again each of the following years? Tebow has one combined year of starts and won, yet he has been labeled a bust.

Must be because Tebow is white! Just kidding. :)

But in all seriousness, Vick was drafted with the expectation of a team building around him, so he's going to get more chances. Tebow was drafted more as a project. Bottom line is Tebow has gotten chances, and he will hopefully still have more chances, even if it's at another position.

But the only way he's ever going to make it is if he plays much higher than the coaches expectations in both practice and games. To date, the coaches expectations for him have been pretty modest and his performance has never exceeded those expectations.

I won't label Tebow a bust because he had his chance and he did okay. The only people who will label Tebow a bust are those who wanted to see him fail and want to be able to say "I told you so". Things just haven't worked out the way some of us expected. But there are LOTS of really talented guys guys who didn't make it because they didn't fit the system or got buried on the depth chart. Sometimes there a lot of luck involved in it. Life's not always fair.

[TheRaid]

Atlanta

Tebow has yet to have that chance. Peyton stays in Indy, who knows. If you think the Jets gave him a chance, then you just want to believe what you want to believe.

[socraticsilence]

I take cheap shots at Urban as much as anyone, but I blame collusion on the part of the NFL way more than I blame Urban Meyer for Tim's struggles. Even if this is true, Urban Meyer was the head coach of the Florida Gators. As such, it was his job to see to it that the Gators won games, not to develop any one player at the expense of benefitting from what that player could contribute to the team immediately for the sake of the present.

This, look I love TIm but if it had cost us a win or two in 08 or 09 to turn him into an awesome NFL prospect that wouldn't have been worth it and we'd have rightly criticized Urban for it.

[socraticsilence]

This is going to be a very unpopular viewpoint here, but it is accurate. I remember the discussions we had here regarding Tim's NFL viability as a quarterback when he was still here. Tim's astonishing passing numbers were due in large part to his devastating running ability. Defenses could not afford to drop players back in pass coverage for fear that Tim would tear off a 20 yard rumble up the middle. When Tim had single coverage on his receivers at the college game, he was in heaven.

But the NFL game is far tougher. Opposing defenses did not have to put eight in the box to stop Tim on the ground, and NFL defensive backs are FAR, FAR better than their college counterparts, as Steve Spurrier learned the hard way at Washington. They are faster, stronger, and most importantly, FAR more intelligent and experienced.

But it was equally clear that Tim was not a very good pro-style quarterback, and that if he didn't have his running game as an integral part of his total game, his effectiveness as a passer dropped precipitously. Remember after the Concussion Heard 'Round The World? Meyer reduced Tebow's runs, and the offense struggled. I've often said that if one could attach Chris Leak's cerebral skills and poise to all the gifts Tebow had, he'd possibly wind up at Canton with his own bust.

I am grateful for having experienced Tim with the Florida Gators, and while I wish him the very best in his NFL endeavors, the fact is that if he doesn't play another down of college football and returns to the mission, it doesn't drop the esteem he has in my eyes one iota. The NFL is a different game from the college game, requiring different skill sets.


He's never going to be even an average Pocket QB, but I do think he's a viable starter if a team went with a pure spread 4 and 5 wide system- its one of the primary reasons his QB rating increased dramatically at the end of games- given him space, easy reads and Tim is a good QB in a way that most guys aren't.

[pcolagator]

from what I've been told from some back-channel sources is that Tim's problems aren't related to skills, mechanics, etc. but reading defenses and reacting on the fly. FWIW

[STR8OUTDASWAMP1]

from what I've been told from some back-channel sources is that Tim's problems aren't related to skills, mechanics, etc. but reading defenses and reacting on the fly. FWIW

I can believe this, because, since he's been in the NFL, it seems he's always reacting to the defense too late.

[pcolagator]

^^^exactly. Tim has more than enough skills and much, much more "want to" or leadership than many morons that take snaps in the NFL right now. but, if the defense makes you think out there instead of react, you're toast. if he can learn or master that skill, the sky's the limit for him.

[atlantagator86]

Atlanta

Tebow has yet to have that chance. Peyton stays in Indy, who knows. If you think the Jets gave him a chance, then you just want to believe what you want to believe.

Here-in lies the perception problem! People here think Tebow is OWED a chance.

Players aren't GIVEN chances! They aren't GIVEN anything. Players have to EARN the right to be given chances in practice and then capitalize on those chances. For whatever reason, Tebow just hasn't done that so far. People are quick to assume there must be some kind of conspiracy but maybe Tebow just doesn't instill confidence in the coaches.

Maybe in a different system with a different set of coaches, it will be different, but I will again say that in the last 2 seasons, he was behind arguably the 2 worst QBs in the NFL and really wasn't able to take the job from them. Yes, Orton was benched and Tebow became the starter but his play was pretty marginal and it was clear at the end of the season that Denver didn't have Tebow in their long-term plans. If they hadn't signed Manning, they surely would have brought somebody else in and Tebow would have been second string again.

Denver could have signed Manning and kept Tebow as a back-up but for whatever reason, they didn't even want to keep him on the roster and they didn't ask much in return for him.

[AndyGator]

People here think Tebow is OWED a chance.

I'm not claiming that Tebow is near the league of Payton. But Tebow did turn Denver around and actually won a playoff game. He was not given a chance to see what he could do with a full year of experience.

From a business perspective, Denver paid 95M for Payton yet got less post-season victories than with Tebow the year before. Had they invested that money in other quality players and given Tebow another year, would they have done any worse?

[sec1]

i hope tebow gets another chance some where , a realistic chance , not with a idiot like coach ryan

[gator85jd]

People here think Tebow is OWED a chance.

I'm not claiming that Tebow is near the league of Payton. But Tebow did turn Denver around and actually won a playoff game. He was not given a chance to see what he could do with a full year of experience.

From a business perspective, Denver paid 95M for Payton yet got less post-season victories than with Tebow the year before. Had they invested that money in other quality players and given Tebow another year, would they have done any worse?

Plus, they did add supporting players to help the O be successful after they signed Peyton. No such thing with Tim.

[sec1]

i agree...

[theghost]

...., but I blame collusion on the part of the NFL way more than I blame Urban Meyer for Tim's struggles. ....

This is my favorite comment in the whole thread....and pretty much sums up most Gator fans conclusion: it's a conspiracy! There is "collusion on the part of the NFL..." Winning be damned! There is a "collusion"....a big fat conspiracy!! Hilarious!

[LimeyGator]

This is my favorite comment in the whole thread....and pretty much sums up most Gator fans conclusion: it's a conspiracy! There is "collusion on the part of the NFL..." Winning be damned! There is a "collusion"....a big fat conspiracy!! Hilarious!

You find it outlandish or hilarious that "most Gator fans" think this.

Mind if I ask how you know? Straw poll on Twitter? Chat with a couple dozen alumni?

It's a sweeping generalisation that throws people under the bus. I don't feel like there's a collusion. Am I "most Gator fans"?
:huh:

[95Gator]

I know some people won't like me taking this position, and I'm as big a fan of Tebow as there is, but the same argument that is being made for why Tebow hasn't had success in the NFL can be said about the vast majority of players that have ever played in the NFL. Very few guys land in the perfect situation.

Most NFL players have had to deal with coaching changes and not being in a system that is optimal for their skills. The ones who make it and stay in the league are the guys who make the most of the opportunities they get.

The bottom line is that when Tebow has been in games, he really hasn't done a whole lot up to now to take the job from anybody and he's been behind arguably the 2 worst starting QBs in the NFL.

Just fundamentally disagree with your logic. He has a very unique skill set that is based more on will and drive (intangibles) that can't be measured on the field by a few plays.

He was meant to lead and furthermore, that leadership that he has shown through his life worked in the NFL. It's on friggen record. It speaks for itself what he did. He not only succeeded but he did it with passion and made a boring league fun. I was rooting for Broncos more than my Giants. Watching him lead them to a playoff win was equally or more fun than any of the Super Bowl victories by my Giants.

It makes no sense. Takes over a team, leads them to playoffs, wins a game, and now he can't find a home. F#$K the NFL.

[Spurffelbow833]

What is it with some people that you can't make the slightest suggestion that organizations and collectives might behave in a shady or injust manner without getting attacked ad hominem? Not even when you're defending Tim Tebow? Please, people, this is football, not Sandy Hook.

[96Gatorcise]

Just fundamentally disagree with your logic. He has a very unique skill set that is based more on will and drive (intangibles) that can't be measured on the field by a few plays.

He was meant to lead and furthermore, that leadership that he has shown through his life worked in the NFL. It's on friggen record. It speaks for itself what he did. He not only succeeded but he did it with passion and made a boring league fun. I was rooting for Broncos more than my Giants. Watching him lead them to a playoff win was equally or more fun than any of the Super Bowl victories by my Giants.

It makes no sense. Takes over a team, leads them to playoffs, wins a game, and now he can't find a home. F#$K the NFL.

Really? Watching TT go 3 and out for 58 minutes was anything but fun.

[whitelakegator]

People here think Tebow is OWED a chance.

I'm not claiming that Tebow is near the league of Payton. But Tebow did turn Denver around and actually won a playoff game. He was not given a chance to see what he could do with a full year of experience.

From a business perspective, Denver paid 95M for Payton yet got less post-season victories than with Tebow the year before. Had they invested that money in other quality players and given Tebow another year, would they have done any worse?

Ending the regular season on a three game losing streak and in the last game for the AFC West title vs the chiefs how did Tebow do? 6-22 for 60 yards and 3 points. That Denver defense only gave up 7. You should win that game and Elway probably saw that and made his mind up then and there. They lost 4 of their last 5. People aren't seeing reality.

[TheRaid]

Atlanta

You are putting words in people's posts to justify your own arguments.

owing a chance?

He proved people wrong including you. You just don't want to admit it.

For whatever reason, he is not handed the keys to the car. But it is not because he proved he could not drive. On the contrary, he was given a broken Taurus and he out raced much better cars but didn't look sexy doing it. So he wont be allowed to drive the mustang. We don't know why exactly. But it aint because he can't throw the ball or win a game at qb with arm tied behind.his.back.because the fact remains that he led a broken Denver team to qualify for.the.playoffs.and win one playoff game when they were left for dead. No matter how much you revision that, you have the problem of that.fact undermining your whole argument.

[atlantagator86]

Atlanta

You are putting words in people's posts to justify your own arguments.

owing a chance?

He proved people wrong including you. You just don't want to admit it.

For whatever reason, he is not handed the keys to the car. But it is not because he proved he could not drive. On the contrary, he was given a broken Taurus and he out raced much better cars but didn't look sexy doing it. So he wont be allowed to drive the mustang. We don't know why exactly. But it aint because he can't throw the ball or win a game at qb with arm tied behind.his.back.because the fact remains that he led a broken Denver team to qualify for.the.playoffs.and win one playoff game when they were left for dead. No matter how much you revision that, you have the problem of that.fact undermining your whole argument.

I'm not even sure I know what you're trying to say here. I didn't put words in anybody's mouth. You said:

... if you think the Jets GAVE him a chance ...

My point is that he hasn't had a chance because as far as the coach and GM are concerned, he apparently didn't EARN that chance, for whatever reason.

And how did Tebow prove me or anybody else wrong? And proved what wrong?

Tebow was "not handed the keys to the car" this year because the Jets coaches didn't trust him to drive the car, not because he wrecked the car. They trusted Greg McElroy more than Tebow to drive the car. Not because Tebow proved that he couldn't drive, but because for whatever reason they felt that McElroy would drive it better.

And I am totally lost on your last point about the "fact". What fact? Are you saying that because he was on the Denver team that won a playoff game, he proved himself to be a really good NFL starting QB?

If that's your point, then lets take a baseball analogy. You closer blows the lead in all 12 home games he pitched in, but the team somehow comes back in the bottom of the 9th and wins all 12 games. Is that guy likely to be your closer next year? I mean he had a 12-0 record and the team won every game he was in, so he must be good by what I assume is your logic.

The answer is no. There's more to it than just whether the team won the games you played in. And for whatever the reason, even after the playoffs last year, Elway made it pretty clear that Tebow wasn't going to be Denver's starting QB in 2013. If you want to believe that it's because there is some league-wide conspiracy against Tebow, then that's just what you're going to believe.

I think it's because of 2 reasons. First, because of his performance. But second is because he is a polarizing figure, in the media, with fans and clearly in the locker room. It's been pretty clear both in Denver and New York that the other players don't like the attention Tebow gets. I saw some thing written earlier this year that led me to believe that several of the Jets offensive players said they would not play with Tebow. And we know that several Denver players didn't like Tebow being around. I think Demarius Thomas, they guy who caught the game winning pass in the playoff game pretty much said he was glad Tebow was gone.

It may very well be that the reason coaches won't give Tebow a real chance is that they don't want to deal with the locker room turmoil and distractions Tebow brings. A QB with a 65% completion rating and rating oner 100 might be worth it, but a guy with a sub 50% and passer rating around 75 might not be.

[theghost]

You find it outlandish or hilarious that "most Gator fans" think this.

Mind if I ask how you know? Straw poll on Twitter? Chat with a couple dozen alumni?

It's a sweeping generalisation that throws people under the bus. I don't feel like there's a collusion. Am I "most Gator fans"?
:huh:

Apparantly you post...but don't read too much of the message boards. It's the same thing every time a Tebow thread is started. One big conspiracy to keep him off the field...or EVERY NFL exec, coach, pundit, etc has it out for him...or they are just simply idiots.

I like Tebow as much as the next Gator fan....but once they leave Gainesville for the greener pastures of the NFL, I don't really lose sleep over it. Sorry that you do....

[atlantagator86]

Just fundamentally disagree with your logic. He has a very unique skill set that is based more on will and drive (intangibles) that can't be measured on the field by a few plays.

He was meant to lead and furthermore, that leadership that he has shown through his life worked in the NFL. It's on friggen record. It speaks for itself what he did. He not only succeeded but he did it with passion and made a boring league fun. I was rooting for Broncos more than my Giants. Watching him lead them to a playoff win was equally or more fun than any of the Super Bowl victories by my Giants.

This part of my comment isn't directed at you but I find it very interesting how polarizing of a topic as this has become. It seems that even though we are ALL Tebow fans, about half the people here can only see that that Tebow has just gotten totally screwed and half the people feel that maybe he just wasn't ever good enough to be an NFL QB. There is no middle ground. Just pointing that out because that just goes to show how polarizing a figure Tebow is.

Now to your points:

I absolutely agree with you that Tebow has a unique set of skills. I think his biggest leadership skill is making the people around him play better. And I think that the problem with that skill set is that it's not something that really shows itself in practice. I even seem to recall Meyer saying something to the effect that Tebow wasn't an overly impressive practice player.

And there are other QBs who were kind similar in that way. Bradshaw and Favre are 2 that come to mind.

The difference is that Bradshaw and Favre weren't the polarizing figures in the locker room that Tebow is.

[LimeyGator]

Apparantly you post...but don't read too much of the message boards. It's the same thing every time a Tebow thread is started. One big conspiracy to keep him off the field...or EVERY NFL exec, coach, pundit, etc has it out for him...or they are just simply idiots.

I like Tebow as much as the next Gator fan....but once they leave Gainesville for the greener pastures of the NFL, I don't really lose sleep over it. Sorry that you do....

No need to get defensive about it, theghost.

I can assure you my kids wreck my sleep far more than any Gators who make the NFL, but your concern is appreciated.

I was just bothered that you casually tossed out an assumption that "most Gator fans" feel the way you clearly disapprove of, as if there are but a select and kingly few who are somehow capable of rationalising the situation.

Yes, we have our fair share of partisan Pro-Tebow fans and I don't blame them one iota. That's their choice - the guy was a Gator legend so I can see why they may feel that way.

However, this board regularly has back and forths about his tribulations in the NFL. In fact, I believe I repped Wormwood for such a sentiment earlier in this thread by just a few posts.

My only issue was how you seemed to imply it was "most Gator fans". I simply don't think that's the case.

[atlantagator86]

What is it with some people that you can't make the slightest suggestion that organizations and collectives might behave in a shady or injust manner without getting attacked ad hominem? Not even when you're defending Tim Tebow?

That's not what you said! What you said was:

... I blame collusion on the part of the NFL ...

Collusion is defined as:

secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose

You made a direct accusation of "collusion" by the NFL. That's a pretty serious accusation, especially when there's nothing backing it. That's MUCH more than the "slightest suggestion that organizations and collectives might behave in a shady or injust manner".

So yes, you're probably going to get called on it. And you were not personally attacked. But your statement was definitely brought into question.

[whitelakegator]

Hyperbole - The communication of choice on all message boards.

[TheRaid]

Atlanta

I don't know who you are arguing with and who you categorize in which box you have made, or why you.have to make one at all to.have a discussion, and I have no idea why you cannot understand my simple dumbed down post. But all I am saying is that Tebow did earn more than he got. To say otherwise is simply denial for the sake of denial. He far exceeded expectations in Denver where he was setup to fail. He has been mishandled in NY according to a former coach there. We do not know the real reasons he has been treated that way. We all agree he is polarizing, but not nearly as polarizing as the.media.has made him to be. There are many polarizing figures. You keep harping on stats. He is not held out because of stats. one day perhaps we will learn what is really happening behind the closed doors. Perhaps not. At this point, I really am not interested in talking about it any more as I was only marginally interested in the topic.

But I was drawn in when you started saying things that deny facts when they are there in the face and start acting like an ESPN ditto.head to denigrate TT as if he did not and cannot do anything in the NFL and.cannot.lead a team to victories in the NFL. He did. And you cannot take that.fact away no matter how.much.you want to.

[atlantagator86]

Atlanta

I don't know who you are arguing with and who you categorize in which box you have made, or why you.have to make one at all to.have a discussion, and I have no idea why you cannot understand my simple dumbed down post. But all I am saying is that Tebow did earn more than he got. To say otherwise is simply denial for the sake of denial. He far exceeded expectations in Denver where he was setup to fail. He has been mishandled in NY according to a former coach there. We do not know the real reasons he has been treated that way. We all agree he is polarizing, but not nearly as polarizing as the.media.has made him to be. There are many polarizing figures. You keep harping on stats. He is not held out because of stats. one day perhaps we will learn what is really happening behind the closed doors. Perhaps not. At this point, I really am not interested in talking about it any more as I was only marginally interested in the topic.

But I was drawn in when you started saying things that deny facts when they are there in the face and start acting like an ESPN ditto.head to denigrate TT as if he did not and cannot do anything in the NFL and.cannot.lead a team to victories in the NFL. He did. And you cannot take that.fact away no matter how.much.you want to.

My debate in the post replying to you was directed at you and your statements. You said I put words in your mouth, but I didn't.

The sentiment of people thinking Tebow should be GIVEN a chance was directed at you AND others who keep saying that Tebow hasn't been given a chance and all the reasons (coaches against him, collusion by the NFL, etc - I don't know what reasons you use).

I replied to your post because you you used the words "... if you think the Jets GAVE him a chance ..." (GAVE in all caps), which I take to mean that the Jets OWED Tebow the chance.

As far as what he did in Denver, I guess that's just a matter of opinion and we can just agree to disagree. I'm not sure why you think some of us who are Tebow fans, but weren't in awe of Tebow's Denver performance and don't think any team should want to build their offense around him means we're in denial.

But like I said, Tebow is a very polarizing figure, even here among his fans. There is very little middle ground.

I think it's kind of humorous that you think Tebow "far exceeded expectations". As I see it, Tebow did okay. That's it. He didn't suck. He did well considering some of the circumstances but he also made a lot of mistakes. His season in Denver kind of reminded me of some of the seasons Rex Grossman has had. Good enough to win some games, but nowhere near good enough that a team is going to try to build an offense around him.

How can you possibly say he wasn't held out this year because of stats?!?! Do you seriously think that he wouldn't have gotten more touches for the Jets if he had moved the ball or led TD drives?!?! But he didn't. The Jets offense was just as bad with Tebow in there as Sanchez. I think we both agree that there was more to it than just the stats, but I don't think there was any sort of conspiracy or collusion or anything like others are saying. Regardless of what was going on behind the scenes, Tebow's performance didn't give the coaches any reason to give him more touches.

Nothing I have said has been to "deny facts" and I take personal offense to you saying I am "acting like an ESPN ditto.head to denigrate TT", whatever that is. I have my own opinions based on what I've seen.

Like them or not, the stats don't lie. If anything, the stats are the facts that contradict what is your opinion. And there are only a small number of people out there right now that believe Tebow will ever be a really good starting NFL QB, and I don't think any of them are NFL GMs or coaches.

I haven't given up on Tebow. I still think he'll have another chance to show a team what he can do. But I think the task for him has gotten much harder. Instead of coming is as the #2 QB, I think he'll probably be brought in as the #3 or #4 option and have to fight hard just to make a roster. He's going to really have to wow somebody to see much playing time. I for one hope he does that, but I don't have particularly high expectations. Sometimes that's when a guy like Tebow excels.

You are more than entitled to disagree.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Do you really honestly think that NFL teams, which are all businesses who will do ANYTHING to make money, and are willing to let a guy like Ray Lewis pay nothing for what he was almost surely involved in and gave Michael Vick a second chance, have all gotten together and conspired to keep Tebow from being successful?!?!

Are modern professional sports leagues truly just business ventures only, or might they serve another purpose beyond the profit motive, like social control?

Before you start laughing off such a suggestion, consider a well-known historical precedent:

Rome’s working class, the plebeians had little individual power. Grouped together, however, they became a Roman mob and had to be handled carefully...

...Some plebeians, who were doing reasonably well, might try to save enough money to join the equestrian class. For many, however, life was a daily struggle.

But although individual plebeians had little power, there were a lot of them. In bad times, or during political unrest, there was always the risk of the Roman ‘mob’ rioting or rebelling against the upper classes.

The Emperor Augustus was well aware of this risk and was keen to keep the poorest plebeians happy enough and reasonably well fed so that they would not riot. He began the system of state bribery that the writer Juvenal described as ‘bread and circuses’.

Free grain and controlled food prices meant that plebeians could not starve, while free entertainment – such as chariot races and gladiators in amphitheaters and the Circus Maximus – meant that they would not get bored and restless. Bribery it may have been, but it often worked.

http://www.pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/plebians.html

I don't know if Spurffelbow833 was going in that direction or not, but Tebow is one of the most vocal and recognizable Christians in America today, and there might be more to his NFL blackballing than just won-loss records and monetary concerns.

[Spurffelbow833]

secret agreement or cooperation especially for an illegal or deceitful purpose

Especially, as in not exclusively. Social ostracism and professional blacklisting, especially of an informal nature, are perfectly legal. I'm not talking about Roger Goodell issuing a secret memo to all the owners and GM's. I'm talking about how fishy it is that Tebow isn't wanted at all by anybody with nearly 100 roster spots available.

[TheRaid]

Atlanta

Don't lose any more sleep over it. I haven't lost any. I hardly care about this issue. But it is apparently your passionate mission to correct everyone who thinks Tebow actually did something in Denver. Had T not been there, that team finishes in the top 2 or 3 of the draft position. I am late to the argument. My gave comment was after yours not before it. If you want to be offended then go ahead. You desire it. There is nothing but one's self involvment when it come to being offended on a message board or with strangers, and it usually comes from one's own self-esteem issues along with pride and self-righteousness about something they think or believe. If it were not for ESPN you would would not be on here discussing it in the manner you are. I have zero doubt about that. I have no such worries about message board comments. I am more worried about cancer in my family and raising kids who lost their mom to it and are living with us now. That is what really matters so you should gain some perspective for yourself. This is not my argument or fight as I did not start it. But it is your revisioning and it is incorrect. I hope you have nothing more important to worry about in your life. Truly I do.

[whitelakegator]

Bottom line...is a team's record 100% because of a QB? No.

Are a QBs stats pretty much a result of a QBs play? Yes.

I honestly believe if Tebow hadn't laid that huge stinker vs the Chiefs and shown he could play well in the clutch, he may have gotten another year in Denver. But going 6-22 for 60 yards with the division on the line was the straw that broke the camel's back. They only ended up BACKING into the playoffs. Too many things went Denver's way last year...a lot of luck. You cannot win consistently in the NFL with a sub 50% completion QB. You can't. Just look at Denver's 1-4 record to close out their average season. 9-9 or something. Too many people want to gloss over his terrible stats and just look at his "record" which is a function of the whole TEAM. How about that FG kicker? You don't think he had just as much to do with it? The defense?

Yeah, it was all about Tebow and his 45% completions.

[Speedofsand]

Just look at Denver's 1-4 record to close out their average season.
Yeah, it was all about Tebow and his 45% completions.

Maybe if Decker had not been injured and Tebow had more than one guy who could catch, his % would've been higher down the stretch.
...................................

As for NYJ, who thinks McElroy played better than Tebow could have when Greg was getting 11 sacks, an int and a fumble in one game? Oooooh but Greg was 58% in the loss. What difference did it make?

[atlantagator86]

Atlanta

Don't lose any more sleep over it. I haven't lost any. I hardly care about this issue. But it is apparently your passionate mission to correct everyone who thinks Tebow actually did something in Denver. Had T not been there, that team finishes in the top 2 or 3 of the draft position. I am late to the argument. My gave comment was after yours not before it. If you want to be offended then go ahead. You desire it. There is nothing but one's self involvment when it come to being offended on a message board or with strangers, and it usually comes from one's own self-esteem issues along with pride and self-righteousness about something they think or believe. If it were not for ESPN you would would not be on here discussing it in the manner you are. I have zero doubt about that. I have no such worries about message board comments. I am more worried about cancer in my family and raising kids who lost their mom to it and are living with us now. That is what really matters so you should gain some perspective for yourself. This is not my argument or fight as I did not start it. But it is your revisioning and it is incorrect. I hope you have nothing more important to worry about in your life. Truly I do.

HAHAHAHA! Actually, it sounds to me like maybe you are losing sleep over it! I seem to have struck a nerve with you! Oh, and thanks so much for the life coaching! ;)

[atlantagator86]

As for NYJ, who thinks McElroy played better than Tebow could have when Greg was getting 11 sacks, an int and a fumble in one game? Oooooh but Greg was 58% in the loss. What difference did it make?

I absolutely agree that McElroy stunk it up! He wasn't able to capitalize on his chances either. Sanchez, McElroy and Tebow all played pretty poorly this year. And McElroy probably isn't going to be on the Jets roster next year either and very possibly might have played his last NFL season. More than likely, Sanchez will come back as a second stringer on the Jets next year only because of how much they're paying him and because they can't unload his salary.

[whitelakegator]

Maybe if Decker had not been injured and Tebow had more than one guy who could catch, his % would've been higher down the stretch.
...................................

As for NYJ, who thinks McElroy played better than Tebow could have when Greg was getting 11 sacks, an int and a fumble in one game? Oooooh but Greg was 58% in the loss. What difference did it make?

I am curious as to why you didn't respond to the whole post and not just specific items?

Is it possible that Tebow has an extremely difficult time reading defenses and that is why he has trouble?

[atlantagator86]

Especially, as in not exclusively. Social ostracism and professional blacklisting, especially of an informal nature, are perfectly legal. I'm not talking about Roger Goodell issuing a secret memo to all the owners and GM's. I'm talking about how fishy it is that Tebow isn't wanted at all by anybody with nearly 100 roster spots available.

Fair enough. If that's what you meant and that's what you choose to believe is going on, than I can accept that. I don't agree with it, but we don't have to agree and I don't think any of us are going to change each other's minds here.

I only questioned you on it because I think there seem to be a lot of people on here who believe that there has been a real orchestrated effort or conspiracy on the part of NFL owners, GMs and coaches to make sure Tebow never makes it. And that may be exactly what you believe too. But when words like collusion get thrown out there, that really takes it to another level in my opinion.

[Speedofsand]

I am curious as to why you didn't respond to the whole post and not just specific items?

Is it possible that Tebow has an extremely difficult time reading defenses and that is why he has trouble?

People see what they want to see. You see a 1-4 record down the stretch. I see a 1-4 record before Tebow got to play. You see a 9-9 team record. I see a 7-4 record with Tebow playing, then 1-1 in the playoffs.
Tebow earned the chance to play instead of McElroy but Ryan was afraid to give it to him because a win would have had Jets fans screaming for Ryan's job. Instead, they fired the GM, OC, and QB coach, and keep Ryan and they are stuck with keeping his boy Sanchez like a bad tattoo.

[whitelakegator]

People see what they want to see. You see a 1-4 record down the stretch. I see a 1-4 record before Tebow got to play. You see a 9-9 team record. I see a 7-4 record with Tebow playing, then 1-1 in the playoffs.
Tebow earned the chance to play instead of McElroy but Ryan was afraid to give it to him because a win would have had Jets fans screaming for Ryan's job. Instead, they fired the GM, OC, and QB coach, and keep Ryan and they are stuck with keeping his boy Sanchez like a bad tattoo.

Actually, I am asking for people to look DEEPER than just the record. IMHO, that doesn't tell the whole story. You have to look at how he performed. Record just isn't the end all be all. Do you think it is fair to put weight into performance and not just record alone?

[Distant Gator]

Actually, I am asking for people to look DEEPER than just the record. IMHO, that doesn't tell the whole story. You have to look at how he performed. Record just isn't the end all be all. Do you think it is fair to put weight into performance and not just record alone?

Ok- let's look to Tebow's performance. Did he have some bad games? Yes, just like most other young QBs. But did he have some good games? Also yes.

Vs the Raiders? 124 yds passing and 118 rushing.
He beat the Jets with a last minute drive that was a thing of beauty.
He had 143 yards passing and 67 rushing to beat San Diego.
He had 202 passing (10/15 BTW) to beat the Vikings.
He had 236 passing and 49 rushing to beat the Bears. (Leading rusher BTW.)
In the first NE game Tebow had 194 passing and 93 rushing (and 2 TDS.) Denver led NE for a while and then the NE offense kicked it into high gear. So TT almost accounted for 300 yards vs the Super Bowl team. What killed Denver was 3 fumbles (1 by TT.)

And then we get to the post season.
TT played the top defense in the NFL, if memory serves.
TT threw for 316 yards and ran for 50 more. And didn't throw an INT- either in regulation or in OT. (Looking at you Peyton Manning.)
Most importantly Denver won a home playoff game after beginning the year 1-4 and being picked for last place in the West.
And this was with their top receiver traded away, their top running back hurt (Moreno), and with a defense that was dead last in the NFL the year before.

Any rational person would say that Tebow had an extraordinary year with Denver. As good as Peyton Manning? By and large, no, though TT outperformed PM in their home playoff game. But good enough to get a chance somewhere that needs a QB like Minnesota, Jax, or many others? Certainly. But the NFL and many others aren't rational when it comes to TT.
ESPN poisioned the well, so clubs are afraid to take him and get a lot of bad publicity.

[atlantagator86]

Any rational person would say that Tebow had an extraordinary year with Denver.

Distant, this isn't really directed at you but it never ceases to amaze me how different people can look at the same thing and have completely different impressions of it.

Some people, like Distant Gator Gator, look at Tebow's performance in Denver and see it as "extraordinary" and can't understand how any rational person couldn't see that. I look at it and I saw some good plays but nothing that would make me as a coach or GM think Tebow was anywhere near ready to be a full time starter. And then there's the GMs and coaches who apparently very few, if any, appear to believe Tebow deserves to be a starter.

I also don't think ESPN has much, if anything, to do with what those coaches and GMs think.

[whitelakegator]

Ok- let's look to Tebow's performance. Did he have some bad games? Yes, just like most other young QBs. But did he have some good games? Also yes.

Vs the Raiders? 124 yds passing and 118 rushing.
He beat the Jets with a last minute drive that was a thing of beauty.
He had 143 yards passing and 67 rushing to beat San Diego.
He had 202 passing (10/15 BTW) to beat the Vikings.
He had 236 passing and 49 rushing to beat the Bears. (Leading rusher BTW.)
In the first NE game Tebow had 194 passing and 93 rushing (and 2 TDS.) Denver led NE for a while and then the NE offense kicked it into high gear. So TT almost accounted for 300 yards vs the Super Bowl team. What killed Denver was 3 fumbles (1 by TT.)

And then we get to the post season.
TT played the top defense in the NFL, if memory serves.
TT threw for 316 yards and ran for 50 more. And didn't throw an INT- either in regulation or in OT. (Looking at you Peyton Manning.)
Most importantly Denver won a home playoff game after beginning the year 1-4 and being picked for last place in the West.
And this was with their top receiver traded away, their top running back hurt (Moreno), and with a defense that was dead last in the NFL the year before.

Any rational person would say that Tebow had an extraordinary year with Denver. As good as Peyton Manning? By and large, no, though TT outperformed PM in their home playoff game. But good enough to get a chance somewhere that needs a QB like Minnesota, Jax, or many others? Certainly. But the NFL and many others aren't rational when it comes to TT.
ESPN poisioned the well, so clubs are afraid to take him and get a lot of bad publicity.

Performance isn't just yards. What was his completions to attempts? Third down efficiency? Yds per attempt? QB rating for each game? I see you Teo'ed your post to only show what you wanted to show. Nice.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Eh, let's put the Mendoza line at a 75QBR.

That's 8 good games to 6 not good games. I'd say he really only had 2 "bad" games, the last of 2011 regular season.

He played pretty well for a first year starter.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Using that Mendoza line:

Matt Ryan's first year: 11/18 games above 75 (61%)
Tim Tebow's first year: 8/12 (67%)
Eli Manning: 6/17 (35%)
Big Ben: 11/17 (65%)
Flacco: 10/19 (53%)
Luck: 9/17 (53%)

[Distant Gator]

Distant, this isn't really directed at you but it never ceases to amaze me how different people can look at the same thing and have completely different impressions of it.

Some people, like Distant Gator Gator, look at Tebow's performance in Denver and see it as "extraordinary" and can't understand how any rational person couldn't see that. I look at it and I saw some good plays but nothing that would make me as a coach or GM think Tebow was anywhere near ready to be a full time starter. And then there's the GMs and coaches who apparently very few, if any, appear to believe Tebow deserves to be a starter.

I also don't think ESPN has much, if anything, to do with what those coaches and GMs think.

I think it's extraordinary that a 1st year starter can take a team that's 1-4, with a hurt starting RB, a top WR that was traded, and a defense that was LAST in the NFL the previous year, and go 7-4, and then beat the top ranked D in the NFL by producing 366 yards and 3 TDs. Again- on a team that was picked to finish last in a weak division.

What would you call it? Who else has done anything like this in their 1st year. Is this normal for a 1st year NFL starter? Or is it at least better than average?

And again- the question is not whether Tebow is better than Manning. I'm not saying that. But could he do better than Ponder, than Gabbert, than so many others? I think so and the record shows that he did.

About ESPN- people are driven by the opinion of others in their peer group. It's not so outlandish that the NFL peer group can be swayed by some very loud voices on ESPN- especially when there is some evidence.

[Distant Gator]

Performance isn't just yards. What was his completions to attempts? Third down efficiency? Yds per attempt? QB rating for each game? I see you Teo'ed your post to only show what you wanted to show. Nice.

I don't have time to look up all that- if you want to knock yourself out.
Nobody is Teoing except perhaps you who doesn't want to talk about the many good games TT had.

Let me ask this- if Tebow is SO BAD then how did he beat the Steelers? How did he throw for 316 yards and rush for 50 more with no INTs?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

I would never qualify Tebow's year in 2011 as "extraordinary."

BUT

It was certainly decent enough, with hints of brilliance, and yet Tebow has never been afforded the benefit of the doubt that most QBs are given. That's the rub.

[rpmGator]

All losses were because of Tim, all wins were because of the Bronco team... Orton lost four out of five and got a contract with the Cowboys. Tim goes 7 and 4 and now he isn't as good as Orton.

Getting beat by NE is such a shame...

He has one more playoff win with Denver than Manning, and has the same number of playoff wins as Tony Gonzalez who has played forever.

And the highest QBR in the last five minutes of games, when passing is a need, not a want.

One thing for sure, Manning can't throw the ball Flacco beat them with.

[raycgator]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8865345/tim-tebow-forced-new-york-jets-owner-woody-johnson-ted-sundquist-says

^

Now the Jets are throwing TT under the bus. They're trying to deflect attention from the miserable season now that the finger pointing has begun.

Religious or not I kinda believe that eventually everybody gets whats coming to them. Jets might end up being the next Cleveland Browns

[atlantagator86]

I think it's extraordinary that a 1st year starter can take a team that's 1-4, with a hurt starting RB, a top WR that was traded, and a defense that was LAST in the NFL the previous year, and go 7-4, and then beat the top ranked D in the NFL by producing 366 yards and 3 TDs. Again- on a team that was picked to finish last in a weak division.

What would you call it? Who else has done anything like this in their 1st year. Is this normal for a 1st year NFL starter? Or is it at least better than average?

And again- the question is not whether Tebow is better than Manning. I'm not saying that. But could he do better than Ponder, than Gabbert, than so many others? I think so and the record shows that he did.

About ESPN- people are driven by the opinion of others in their peer group. It's not so outlandish that the NFL peer group can be swayed by some very loud voices on ESPN- especially when there is some evidence.

Like I said, different people view it completely differently. You base your opinion almost solely on the team performance (wins and losses). I view mine more based on his individual performance. Neither of us is entirely right or wrong.

I think most of the NFL coaches and GMs view the guys on ESPN as total hacks. I think most of them are egomaniacs who think they know more than anybody else anyway. I don't mean that as an insult. Those guys should have big egos.

I think they probably watch the ESPN highlights but could care less about the opinions expressed. There are probably only a couple of the guys on there that they care at all about what they think and those are probably well-respected former coaches. And those guys are rarely going to discuss topics like Tebow.

[whitelakegator]

I think it's extraordinary that a 1st year starter can take a team that's 1-4, with a hurt starting RB, a top WR that was traded, and a defense that was LAST in the NFL the previous year, and go 7-4, and then beat the top ranked D in the NFL by producing 366 yards and 3 TDs. Again- on a team that was picked to finish last in a weak division.

What would you call it? Who else has done anything like this in their 1st year. Is this normal for a 1st year NFL starter? Or is it at least better than average?

And again- the question is not whether Tebow is better than Manning. I'm not saying that. But could he do better than Ponder, than Gabbert, than so many others? I think so and the record shows that he did.

About ESPN- people are driven by the opinion of others in their peer group. It's not so outlandish that the NFL peer group can be swayed by some very loud voices on ESPN- especially when there is some evidence.

What's this "first year starter" stuff? When did this relabeling begin? Dude's going into his FOURTH season. Are ppl then going to start calling it his "second year starting"? Let's quit the revisionist history. He started in his rookie season. Last year was his second year starting. First year? Wow...some of you will TEO anything to fit your story.

[whitelakegator]

I don't have time to look up all that- if you want to knock yourself out.
Nobody is Teoing except perhaps you who doesn't want to talk about the many good games TT had.

Let me ask this- if Tebow is SO BAD then how did he beat the Steelers? How did he throw for 316 yards and rush for 50 more with no INTs?

I'm pretty sure that the Steelers pro bowl safety had to sit out because of his illness. Denver completed a lot of long throws that I am pretty sure Clark would have been around or maybe not even attempted if Clark was in there. Just MHO nothing more.

Tebow played well in that game. So you put your whole organization in the hands of sub 50% completion QB all because of one game sandwiched between 6-22 for 60 yds and 9-26 for 134 yds???? Really????

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Seriously, he had a better first starting season than a lot of QBs who are tearing things up now.

[Spurffelbow833]

Forget about starting. Even if he isn't good enough to start, why can't Tebow get a real second string spot, where there is no question or BS about who goes in if the starter goes down? Look at how long guys like George Blanda and Steve Deberg lasted with that gig. Tebow would be the perfect guy to come in and save the day if the starter got injured. That no one is willing to even consider this role for him really stinks to high heaven.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Forget about starting. Even if he isn't good enough to start, why can't Tebow get a real second string spot, where there is no question or BS about who goes in if the starter goes down? Look at how long guys like George Blanda and Steve Deberg lasted with that gig. Tebow would be the perfect guy to come in and save the day if the starter got injured. That no one is willing to even consider this role for him really stinks to high heaven.

As Skip Bayless (imo, accurately) points out, that really isn't a possibility for a lot of teams right now. You can't have a pocket passer as your #1 and Tim Tebow as your #2, because they both require radically different offenses.

Can Tebow pass? You bet. Would I put him in a traditional NFL offense? Hell no. So unless he ends up getting a shot the way Cam Newton, RGIII, etc., have, he'll have to back up one of those type of players.

[GATORAZ]

Forget about starting. Even if he isn't good enough to start, why can't Tebow get a real second string spot, where there is no question or BS about who goes in if the starter goes down? Look at how long guys like George Blanda and Steve Deberg lasted with that gig. Tebow would be the perfect guy to come in and save the day if the starter got injured.

The truth is the reason Tim cant get a real back up spot is because he is a polarizing figure and has overzealous fans. When Tim was the 3rd string QB in Denver the fans didnt call for Quinn they called for Tebow. Who wants to deal with that? It sucks because even though I dont think Tim is a starting QB I am a fan of his and would like to see him get some more time to develop. However the more vocal fans make it so that Tim's presence on a team is a distraction.

[whitelakegator]

The truth is the reason Tim cant get a real back up spot is because he is a polarizing figure and has overzealous fans. When Tim was the 3rd string QB in Denver the fans didnt call for Quinn they called for Tebow. Who wants to deal with that? It sucks because even though I dont think Tim is a starting QB I am a fan of his and would like to see him get some more time to develop. However the more vocal fans make it so that Tim's presence on a team is a distraction.

The circus that he brings even as a back up...most teams do not want to deal with that.

Who could blame them?

[Matthanuf06]

At this point I think Tim is a victim of his own brand. Nobody wants to deal with the circus, and I don't blame them. Tim is easily in the backup QB tier to even the pessimistic of coaches, but why bother with the circus?

However I do think Tim can easily be an above average QB, if not Pro Bowl caliber given the right situation.

What Tim needs is simple, an innovative offense. Some pistol, some spread, some zone read, lots of shotgun, etc.

This type of offense is taking the league by storm. If Tim came out this year he would be a consensus top 10 pick. He came out when the consensus was that you have to be "pro style" even though many teams were going to the shot gun with many spread principles.

Now look at the coaches that are having major success using innovative offenses. They are either college coaches, innovative offensive minds, or extremely established coaches. What Tim does NOT need is some stubborn NFL DC turned head coach that only understands under center pro style. Of course that's what he got with Ryan and Fox. Colin K and Russel W both would have struggled with Fox and Ryan as well.

[96Gatorcise]

At this point I think Tim is a victim of his own brand. Nobody wants to deal with the circus, and I don't blame them. Tim is easily in the backup QB tier to even the pessimistic of coaches, but why bother with the circus?

However I do think Tim can easily be an above average QB, if not Pro Bowl caliber given the right situation.

What Tim needs is simple, an innovative offense. Some pistol, some spread, some zone read, lots of shotgun, etc.

This type of offense is taking the league by storm. If Tim came out this year he would be a consensus top 10 pick. He came out when the consensus was that you have to be "pro style" even though many teams were going to the shot gun with many spread principles.

Now look at the coaches that are having major success using innovative offenses. They are either college coaches, innovative offensive minds, or extremely established coaches. What Tim does NOT need is some stubborn NFL DC turned head coach that only understands under center pro style. Of course that's what he got with Ryan and Fox. Colin K and Russel W both would have struggled with Fox and Ryan as well.

I have to completely disagree with you here (bolded). Colin Klein of K state is a TT clone and he is not even being considered a QB in this draft. They would not invite him to the senior bowl as a QB.