I am going to throw this question out for any and all to weigh in

[g8orbill]

As many of you know, I own a Firehouse Subs restaurant. Today I had a customer come up to me and ask for their money back because the employee who brought their sub to their table smelled of cigarette smoke. While I do not give anyone a smoke break during their working hours-they do get a 30 minute break off the clock during their shift. I am asking you if 1- smelling a strong cigarette smell on your server( I don't have servers but I do deliver every sub to the table) would cause you to not eat and ask for your money back, and 2- as an owner how would you approach the issue with your employee?

[108]

1) Would probably notice if was strong, but would not cause me to not eat
2) Ask the employees who smoke to wash their hands with soap after they smoke, and use a breath mint.

[Gatoragman]

First no I would not send back, Second tell your employees to use breath mints or gum, most likely the cig smell came from their breath

[enviroGator]

I'm a non-smoker, and while there are times I get caught in a confined space with a smoker who reeks, I rarely notice the smell of cigs on others.

I certainly would not ask for my money back.

Are you a smoker? If not, maybe you can "smell" the person and see if you think they reek. If so, I'd tell them to do something about it (chew some gum, mouthwash, etc.) If they employee doesn't reek, I wouldn't worry about it.

[anstro76]

it depends on if i felt the customers were being sincere. i hate the smell of cigarette smoke. i probably wouldn't make a big deal about it but i can see their point. now if i felt they were just looking for any reason for a hookup, i wouldn't.

[wygator]

As you are well aware in serving the general public, there will always be jerks and you have to decide if you're going to antagonize them or just go with the flow. You rarely go wrong giving the benefit of the doubt to the customer.

Did they eat the food? If they ended up not eating the meal, then refund them. If they ate, then I don't see the problem. I assume there was no actual smoke, so no actual harm.

You have to assess if the employee smells of smoke too much. Proper grooming, which includes body aromas, is proper for you to address with an employee. Some people just have oversensitive sniffers. You have to decide if that's the case, or if the employee does "smell" too much.

Good luck.

[g8orbill]

I am a non smoker and I assure you the smell of someone who smokes is all over them and not just their breath- it is a smell that makes a non-smoker think the person isn't clean- I refunded the money and apologized(and no they did not eat the food)-I am still trying to decide how to deal with the employee.

[gatorman_07732]

That customer was an ass

[g8orbill]

well maybe 7732- but maybe they just found the smell offensive an unappetizing- I am totally conflicted-one one pt-I agree with the customer and on another point this is a good employee who needs her job- I am trying to figure out a happy medium

in the end I am there to serve our customers and they should not have to be offended or feel like her food is now unappetizing because my employee stinks with cigarette odor.

[gatorman_07732]

well maybe 7732- but maybe they just found the smell offensive an unappetizing- I am totally conflicted-one one pt-I agree with the customer and on another point this is a good employee who needs her job- I am trying to figure out a happy medium

in the end I am there to serve our customers and they should not have to be offended or feel like her food is now unappetizing because my employee stinks with cigarette odor.

Just tell him/her to be conscious about it. You can't fire him over it.

[96Gatorcise]

you should refer to the franchise owner's manual or call corporate human resources. I do not know the extent the Firehouse corporate offices are involved in the day to day operations.

This could be tricky. Do you have a no smoking on premise for employees policy?

I would document but not say anything to the employee. If it happens again with the same employee then that would give you cause to speak about it to them. (2 incidents)

[Matthanuf06]

It doesn't bug me but wife notices it big time. Even if she's around a smoker then she'll be able to smell it on her clothes for hours

[mocgator]

I am a non smoker and I assure you the smell of someone who smokes is all over them and not just their breath- it is a smell that makes a non-smoker think the person isn't clean- I refunded the money and apologized(and no they did not eat the food)-I am still trying to decide how to deal with the employee.

Right thing to do.

I'd be honest with the employee/ employees. Some people are not patient at all with cigarette smoke. It's their prerogative. Employees need to be conscious of it. See how they govern themselves.

You did the right thing in refunding the customer his money and moving on. No upside to fighting or contesting their claim.

[LittleBlueLW]

Bill, just be honest and let the employee know what happened. Make them aware that some people are just going to be asses but to please be mindful of your hygiene.

If the employee runs off other customers for the same offense again, then I'd say there needs to be some disciplinary action taken.

Your employees should know that the customer comes first, otherwise, they have no job.

[adamgator96]

well maybe 7732- but maybe they just found the smell offensive an unappetizing- I am totally conflicted-one one pt-I agree with the customer and on another point this is a good employee who needs her job- I am trying to figure out a happy medium

in the end I am there to serve our customers and they should not have to be offended or feel like her food is now unappetizing because my employee stinks with cigarette odor.

Bill -

I agree with wygator. You did the right thing.

As for the employee, the issue will present your answer if her smoking costs you any more money. It sounds like an isolated incident, but I'd point it out to your employee so she's not blind-sided should this happen again.

[dangolegators]

I am a non smoker and I assure you the smell of someone who smokes is all over them and not just their breath- it is a smell that makes a non-smoker think the person isn't clean- I refunded the money and apologized(and no they did not eat the food)-I am still trying to decide how to deal with the employee.

I agree. The strongest smell comes from their clothing. The employee may not be washing their clothes often enough. I don't smoke, but I've spent plenty of time in smokey bars. Spend some time in a smokey bar and the next morning your clothes smell like cigarettes.

The customer was being a lot pickier than I would be, but I had similar situations with my bar where I gave some overly picky customer the benefit of the doubt and gave them their money back or got them another beer on the house. Pretty much what you've got to do as a business owner because the customer is (almost) always right.

I'd just tell the employee the truth -- that you had to refund the money because a customer complained about the cigarette smell. Of course you document it as well, so if the problem persists you can show you fired the employee with cause and that you tried to correct the issue first.

[enviroGator]

So what would the person have done if it was the customer next to them that stank?

I agree you did the right thing, but some people are over sensitized about the smell of smoke.

[cocodrilo]

I would test the veracity of the person complaining about the cigarette smell by asking him what brand it was.

You could politely say, "I'm not questioning your honesty, but do you really think that the people working here can afford to buy cigarettes? Do you know what one pack costs today?"

[jimgata]

There are snobbish asses everywhere. I had rather smell smoke than be around some of these self righteous snobs.
They could have taken their sandwich and left.
By the way I love Firehouse sandwiches.
If they were offended by the smell of smoke on someone when they are served, I advise them to never go into the kitchens of some of the restaurants they frequent.

[g8orbill]

thanks to all for your comments- I pulled the employee aside with another manager present and told them what happened and then told them that yes they did smell of a strong cigarette odor- while I suggested they quit smoking, I told them that at the least I expected them not to smell of such a strong cigarette odor- and I wrote it out and had them sign it and had my manager witness it

and coco- I assure you everyone one of my employees has a cell phone and all who smoke always have cigarettes

[rounds]

Wash your fingers(hands) and mouth and use a breath mint before returning to work after smoking, period. Some asthmatic people are sent to the ER by exposure of this nature.(allergic, I guess)
Also, some are so nicotine depraved they smoke 4 cigarettes on a 10 minute break!

[CHFG8R]

well maybe 7732- but maybe they just found the smell offensive an unappetizing- I am totally conflicted-one one pt-I agree with the customer and on another point this is a good employee who needs her job- I am trying to figure out a happy medium

in the end I am there to serve our customers and they should not have to be offended or feel like her food is now unappetizing because my employee stinks with cigarette odor.

Ive been a server in a past life. At our resturaunt, most of us smoked. My personal policy was to always wash my hands (and arms - doctor style) and face, use breath spray (Listerine) and we also kept a can of spray cologne (Axe) in the back. I do this because I was paid for MY service of which MY presentation is a big part.

[cocodrilo]

and coco- I assure you everyone one of my employees has a cell phone and all who smoke always have cigarettes

How do they do it? Seriously.

One of the reasons I quit smoking over 30 years ago was because I could no longer afford it. (The other reason was that it was killing me.) And you know what cigs cost back then? I don't remember exactly, but I think it was like 50 cents a pack. (I would smoke up to 4 packs a day.) Don't they cost like 5 bucks a pack nowadays?

Let's see, 4 packs a day at 5 bucks a pack, that's 20 bucks a day, or 140 bucks a week. And then there's the rent etc.

[Lawdog88]

Amazing how times have changed. After WWII, if you didn't smoke from age 16 on, you were simply not a man (guys, I'm talking about here). Smoking was so prevalent and accepted as adult behavior, children were not expected to complain about being confined to the back seat and subjected to two smoking parents on a long trip in the winter time. Actually, it was a form of torture.

So, it was horrible for kids who did not want to grow up and smoke, and who didn't. Like me.

Now the flip side is the norm, and from a health standpoint, it should be.

I don't know if I would have complained, but I certainly would have noticed. I also don't know that cigarette smoking necessarily means one is not hygienic, but reeking certainly registers with non-smokers and it can be an irritant for the especially sensitive.

[corpgator]

Hey Bill, do you own any franchises in Tampa? Like the one near USF?

Anyway, my wife has esophageal spasms and lots of things can set her off. She hates the smell of cigarettes and someone smoking near her can set her to coughing, so the smell of smoke while she is eating would off her spasms. It wasn't us who complained by the way.

Just a perspective. I'm not the type who would ask for a refund, though. We just wouldn't come back. I like firehouse subs.

[g8orbill]

I am not in the Tampa area corp

dog-probably one of the reasons I never smoked was what you mentioned-both my parents smoked and I hated being in the car with them when they smoked- the only good thing was we had 4-60 ac in those days

[fredsanford]

I hate smoking. I was subjected to it by both parents as a kid and I have watched cancer kill more family members than you can count on one hand. As I said in another thread, I would ban it completely by executive order on my first day as US president.

That having been said, unless the employee REAAAAAAAALLY reeked above and beyond, I don't think he should have faced any consequences. It is not his fault if the customer was overly sensitive.

I would imagine he could serve customers at the table for the next 2 years smelling the same and you would never get a similar complaint.

[108]

i don't think you should have suggested the employee to quit smoking, as it isn't a requirement to do a job, but to each their own

[g8orbill]

your right it is a choice 108- but in some situations it is a requirement to do your job-lot's of businesses have gone non smoking-just about the entire health care industry will fire you if you smoke-in fact most of the big hospitals drug test their employees on a regular basis

I have managed to build a relationship with most of my employees-for a fast food restaurant it is unusual to have more than half your staff with over a years service-but I have that situation, so I feel pretty comfortable in telling them that it is in there best interest health wise to not smoke-I did not tell them they would lose their job if they don't quit as it is a personal choice by them- however, smoking does lower ones immune system and smokers do tend to get more URI's than non smokers

[wgbgator]

I'm just wondering how the smell of cigarette odor was that noticeable over the smell of smoked meat which seems to permeate the Firehouses I've been to.

[g8orbill]

wgb- this person had just come off her 30 minute break where she had obviously smoked more than 1 cigarette while she sat in her car and listened to music- she actually reeked of cigarette smell-on her clothes in her hair-smokers rarely notice it on themselves

[cocodrilo]

she sat in her car and listened to music

I'll bet she's half-deaf too. When you tell her something, does she often ask you to repeat it?

[jmoliver]

I dont blame the customer at all. I dont think I would have raised the issue with you Bill but I may not have come back either. You handled it like a true professional.

[GatorFanCF]

Bill - you did the right thing in handling the customer. The food cost of a few bucks pales in comparison with the good-will you will have from the customer. If I could go one further, you might offer to "super size" (add drink + chips) to his next foot long order which will entice him to return where you can confirm you've handled the situation.

Employee grooming (as some have mentioned) can be bothersome to customers (smoking, poor bathing habits, even excessive cologne) and can cause strong reactions. Your sense of smell is your most powerful and memorable scent; so, establishing a clean, healthy environment is paramount to any hospitality related concern.

FYI: Florida is a right to work state - you can fire the employee just because it's Tuesday or for no reason at all. You would probably have to pay unemployment if you have not gone through progressive (non-political usage) discipline steps; but, you as the employer have a right to terminate their employment just as they have the legal right not to show up for work...because it's Tuesday. You cannot terminate their employment for Federally protected classes (I'm firing you because you are XXXXXXX skin color = bad news).

[cocodrilo]

I don't care too much what a woman smells like if she brings me what I ordered and tells me what time she gets off work.

[GatorAbe7]

To answer OP, I would impersonally agoligize on behalf of the employee, and offer money back if it happens next time.

[fairfaxgator]

John Boehner works for you?

[AzCatFan]

I have a very sensitive nose and asthma. I've been known to go into a coughing fit being too close to someone who reeked of cigarette smoke. And on a rare occasion I've had a server give me food smelling like a cheap whore, I've had to get up and get some fresh air. It's not something I enjoy doing, and it's very embarrassing. Usually ends up with my wife complaining to the management and either the meal being comped or something else free. Which makes it even more embarassing.

Hand washing and some febreeze or other sort of freshener for the clothes can help. Hair is often an issue, as the smell lingers in hair a lot. Keeping hair short or tied back can help a little.

You did the right thing, Bill, and it is a concern, especially if your employee is in a confined area (her car), and smoking. It's only going to make the smell that much more intense. And although people like me are rare, we do exist.

[Gatormb]

:cry:Buy her some dip.

[co_gator89]

I guess I'm just different. My parents never smoked, growing up I was seldom ever around cigarette smoke, and I've never been even remotely interested in picking up the habit. But I've never been bothered by cigarette smoke in my life. I can hang out with smokers and not have a single issue and I often hang out in smoking sections at bars since that's where my friends are.

[gatorman_07732]

Sorry, I can't get it out of my head that these customers were completely ridiculous and need to live in a bubble. This is just not reasonable on any level but I understand you would not want to argue with them.

[gator10010]

Bill, is this a customer you really want to keep? I mean you don't really want all of the customers do you?

I think i would have apologized and offered the customer a free sub on the next visit in. I would have talked to the employee and made them aware that customers were complaining about their smell. I would then tell my employee that I trust them to take care of it.

Sit back and see if it happened again.

[gatorman_07732]

Bill, is this a customer you really want to keep? I mean you don't really want all of the customers do you?

I think i would have apologized and offered the customer a free sub on the next visit in. I would have talked to the employee and made them aware that customers were complaining about their smell. I would then tell my employee that I trust them to take care of it.

Sit back and see if it happened again.

The thing is these are obviously very anal people, so they may go around telling people who knows what.

[g8orbill]

all customers are customers I want to keep

they were unhappy and I did whatever I needed to do to make them happy

I am actually surprised by how many of you think the customer was out of bounds complaining about how my employee reeked of cigs

[anstro76]

all customers are customers I want to keep

they were unhappy and I did whatever I needed to do to make them happy

I am actually surprised by how many of you think the customer was out of bounds complaining about how my employee reeked of cigs

you can tell the difference from industry folks and non

[cocodrilo]

"Nature in the raw is seldom mild." (From an old Lucky Strike commercial.)

[Swampmaster]

in the restaurant business, try to avoid hiring smokers--they create too many problems with smoke breaks, customer complaints, etc. Whenever I go to mcdonalds or wendy's, there are employees standing right outside the door smoking away. Disgusting.

[gotime51]

while you want to please all customers it just isnt possible. i work in the automotive industry and all customers are important but at some point you have to tell them to go someplace else. someone is always going to be unhappy about something.

[madgator]

We're all different and as a business owner, I don't think that the request for a refund is obscene.

I would try to offer a solution like a coupon for a free sub the next time they come in with an apology. If the customer persisted, I would give the refund and take the sub back.

I can certainly understand why it would be offensive. Speaks to hygene and you're eating. Not something you want questioned.



I would then tell my employee that if they must smoke during their break to bring gum/breath mints/a body spray.

keep some of that stuff in your office, let your employees know it's there and always feel free to ask to use it if needed.

I've worked in restaurants a good portion of my life.....would see these things available on a regular basis.

in fact, I think most women smokers today give a few sprays after a cigarette.

[cocodrilo]

You can't please all customers for a fact. An old man used to live next door to me (till he drove his car out in front of another one and went to meet his Maker). He took a loaf of bread back to Publix because there were some holes in the bread. The manager told him, "We can't do anything about that." The old man said, "Well somebody better do something!"

[gator10010]

while you want to please all customers it just isnt possible. i work in the automotive industry and all customers are important but at some point you have to tell them to go someplace else. someone is always going to be unhappy about something.

This is my point. Bill has a customer here that comes into his restaurant, gets a whiff of his employee smelling like smoke and instead of complaining about the problem or bringing the issue to Bill's attention, the customer's response is to get a refund.

While the smelling of smoke doesn't need to go unchecked, this issue hardly calls for a refund...let Subway have the customers that want to eat for free.

[Itssaul]

I hate smoke smell, the smallest scent and I feel queasy, I usually keep to great health. But never would I ask you for my money back. I would inform you, and tell you it bothered me. I probably would not eat.

Oh yeah customers are never wrong. Especially when they are very wrong.

[corpgator]

She reeks because she's smoking in her car. Tell her if she wants to smoke, she needs to smoke in the open air so that the smell does stick all over her.

[gator996]

Customer has every right to refund if any part of the service is subpar...they're paying for the entire service.

You were right to have spoken to the employee and documented the meeting

Funny, if BO is part of your interview process then "cigarette stink" seems it should be legitiate too...

[gatorev12]

At first, I thought the customer was being overly sensitive and just wanting to get something for free...but hearing that they didn't actually eat the food made me change my opinion.

While it seems minor to most, I understand it might be enough to cause one to lose one's appetite.

I'm a non-smoker and used to have severe asthma as a kid. I've since largely grown out of it, but heavy cigarette smoke is always a trigger for asthmatic symptoms even to this day. Wouldn't have made me miss a meal by any means...Firehouse subs are delicious.

[Spurffelbow833]

Ask the customer and the employee if they voted for Obama and act accordingly.:laugh:

[Row6]

It can be hard to sense the things that bother other people when they don't bother ourselves, and of course what bothers some is not noticed by others. You did the right thing and a simple order to require that employees wash their hands and that smokers take a breath mint after breaks is logical. I think you could be within your rights to not allow smokers to break in their car and smoke as the smell gets in their hair and clothes. I am blessed with a horrible sense of smell and usually don't notice these kind of things, but others - and especially women who have a superior sense of smell in general from what I have read and from the example of my wife - do. If after all that this unusual situation reoccurs, oh well.

[MichiGator2002]

Bill, as another of your tribe (I don't own, but I sure do feel a sense of ownership, if you will), I don't think the customer sounds all that reasonable -- a restaurant can't and doesn't and shouldn't warrant against any and all possible diminishment of the customer's enjoyment. I mean, part of how I would deal with the customer or the employee would depend on the actual events -- her complaint aside, if you know the employee followed the straight and narrow on food handling and wasn't rubbing the lady's brisket on his shirt to imbue it with smoke, honestly, I think she is full of it. She smelled that the guy had maybe had a cigarette from his breath or ambient odor and decided to teach firehouse a lesson by some BS about it tainting her actual sandwich. So at that point, I would have dealt with her like any other difficult but objectively wrong customer -- offered a remake and an apology, or just apologized and bounced her.

As for any real smoke smell problem, other than telling your employees to really scrub up after smoking and maybe buying a jar of mints for the back and orders to use them before going back behind the counter, I wouldn't get too draconian unless you start seeing this complaint a lot more. People are going to get pretty testy working at a restaurant that had really harsh smoking rules, the only thing I can imagine more likely to result in civil war would be harsh smoking rules at a call center.

[Row6]

The customer is always right, and unless you don't need any, you practice that up to the limits of reason. Correcting the conditions where a bad smelling employee serves food is not going beyond the limits of reason.

[g8orbill]

michi- it is a tough situation as most restaurant workers are also smokers-to be honest if during the interview process they have a heavy smell of cig smoke-I do not hire them. I also tell all employees during the interview process that I do not give cigarette breaks. I do give out 30 minute off the clock meal breaks(employees with less than a years service get a 50% discount-those with over a years service get a 100% discount) if they work more than 4 hours and I allow anyone who needs a drink or a restroom break to have one-but they cannot leave the building on that short break.While the lady who complained was 1- within her rights to complain and 2, I did apologize and refund her money and give her coupon for a return visit-I also recognize that you cannot control someones behavior while off the clock.

As it turns out I have scheduled my monthly employee meeting for this Saturday and I will be discussing this issue along with the usual things we talk about- I will also ask my employees for their input on what they think on this issue and how they think we should go forward with it.

I have other things to talk about-the first being counterfeit money- we have been hit 5 times since Thanksgiving with fake $50's-they are usually acid washed $5's turned into a $50-while my first thought is to no longer accept 50's or 100's-that goes against Firehouse Corp rules- I have recently purchased a blue light that shows the water mark
and numerous other tools top help discern phoney baloney. Business ownership has its pitfalls, but is still better than working for someone else.

[dadx4]

The customer was an ass.

Just ask the employees if any of them smoke and just ask them to wash their hands and yes, do keep mints on them after they have their smoke.

[wgbgator]

Buy some of those e-cigarettes for your employees. No odor. :)

[GatrHeel]

As it turns out I have scheduled my monthly employee meeting for this Saturday and I will be discussing this issue along with the usual things we talk about- I will also ask my employees for their input on what they think on this issue and how they think we should go forward with it.

This sounds like a great idea.

I absolutely abhor the smell of cigarette smoke. But I don't think I would've said anything. It sounds like the interaction between the employee and the customer was so fleeting, it certainly wouldn't have made that big of an impression on me.

That being said -- I love Firehouse. It'd take a lot for me to turn down a meal there.

[gator1986]

No that's Americans being cry babies... Say you wreak of beer and Vicodin... Don't hear me complaining, and kicking you out... Just let it go

[corpgator]

michi- it is a tough situation as most restaurant workers are also smokers-to be honest if during the interview process they have a heavy smell of cig smoke-I do not hire them. I also tell all employees during the interview process that I do not give cigarette breaks. I do give out 30 minute off the clock meal breaks(employees with less than a years service get a 50% discount-those with over a years service get a 100% discount) if they work more than 4 hours and I allow anyone who needs a drink or a restroom break to have one-but they cannot leave the building on that short break.While the lady who complained was 1- within her rights to complain and 2, I did apologize and refund her money and give her coupon for a return visit-I also recognize that you cannot control someones behavior while off the clock.

As it turns out I have scheduled my monthly employee meeting for this Saturday and I will be discussing this issue along with the usual things we talk about- I will also ask my employees for their input on what they think on this issue and how they think we should go forward with it.

I have other things to talk about-the first being counterfeit money- we have been hit 5 times since Thanksgiving with fake $50's-they are usually acid washed $5's turned into a $50-while my first thought is to no longer accept 50's or 100's-that goes against Firehouse Corp rules- I have recently purchased a blue light that shows the water mark
and numerous other tools top help discern phoney baloney. Business ownership has its pitfalls, but is still better than working for someone else.

FIVE times? That sounds like an inside job to me. Isn't counterfeiting a federal offense?

[gator10010]

The customer is always right, and unless you don't need any, you practice that up to the limits of reason. Correcting the conditions where a bad smelling employee serves food is not going beyond the limits of reason.

I only want the customers I can make money on. I can go broke sitting at home.

While the smell issue needs to be addressed the customer is not always right.

[g8orbill]

No, but the customer is ALWAYS the customer

[Spurffelbow833]

I have other things to talk about-the first being counterfeit money- we have been hit 5 times since Thanksgiving with fake $50's-they are usually acid washed $5's turned into a $50-while my first thought is to no longer accept 50's or 100's-that goes against Firehouse Corp rules- I have recently purchased a blue light that shows the water mark
and numerous other tools top help discern phoney baloney. Business ownership has its pitfalls, but is still better than working for someone else.

What would you do if you caught someone passing you phony bills? Kick them out or detain them and call the cops?

[g8orbill]

Well this has actually happened in the 9+ years I have been a Firehouse Subs Franchisee- I confronted the customer and told them there bill was a fake and they took off- I went after them to see if I could get there car tag for the police and they were on a bike- I have a camera system so I called the police and downloaded the guys pic to a CD and gave it to them along with the phoney 50

[wgbgator]

Do you actually take $50 bills? Lots of small businesses don't for that reason, among others.

[92gator]

I would have asked the customer:

"did you witness the employee smoking inside?"

No?

"Then he's within his rights...as are you, to go dine elsewhere."

"..but I'm afraid that if you didn't see him smoking in the establishment, and he did not confess to such, that no refund is forthcoming".

"...but please do feel free to come again, if you like. You're money...er, you, are still welcome here!". [INSERT: BIG A$$ SMILE].

[g8orbill]

Some of your responses make me chuckle obviously you don't hold of business because you do not antagonize the customer just make them happy

[92gator]

^^^I do own my own biz--solo prac/law--and I understand what you're saying.

My post was TIC--goin' for the chuckle....with a tinge of a legal angle.

As one stand up comic put it..."that's what I said...on the INSIDE...".

I feel ya' brother...not above kissing a$$ with *certain* clients...

...but then, I'm not quite below putting some of them in ther place either, when circumstances call for it.

[CHFG8R]

I only want the customers I can make money on. I can go broke sitting at home.

While the smell issue needs to be addressed the customer is not always right.

Look, I'm a smoker and I work in the business and here's where you are wrong.

A bad experience will be shared with others, on average, 10 times or more.
A good experience sill be shared with others much, much less.


Just a fact of life and business. So, he clearly made the right decision. In fact, I would venture to guess that he may have actually turned a negative into a positive the way he handled it. That person may have been turned off by the smell of smoke, but highly impressed with the way the OWNER (who thought they were important enough to handle himself) handled it. Or they may just be an inconsoleable jackass. Either way, it was handled the correct way.

A few suggestions for the future. Fact is a lot of people in the service industry smoke. Yes, even the good employees. Rather than limit your labor pool, just make the smokers adhere to strict rules.

Have these in the employee bathroom:
Deodorant Soap - Irish Spring, or something similar.
AXE (or another brand) body spray.

Require employees who are smokers to use:
Breath Mints (unless you're going for the Mel's Diner feel, no gum).
Listerine Pocket Breath Spray (my personal preference). Small, fits in pocket. Very convenient and effective.

Anyone who can't handle that should be fired.

[MichiGator2002]

Some of your responses make me chuckle obviously you don't hold of business because you do not antagonize the customer just make them happy

Yeah, it has to be just grossly exploitative/abusive before I think the greenlight is there to bounce the customer, and honestly, even when it is time to basically tell a guy to go pound sand, you still gotta be polite about it.

But, no, the customer is not always right. The customer, to be blunt, is often wrong, often ignorant, or often making stuff up. You simply have to treat the customer like they are probably right, even if the resolution is going to ultimately be that they do or don't get what they wanted.

Honestly, the smoke-in-my-sandwich thing makes my assumptions go toward hypersensitivity and/or trolling for free food. Doesn't mean I wouldn't humor her to some extent, but I wouldn't assume you have a genuine situation unless you get more than one comment like that.

[Emmitto]

I think the customer was an ass too.

I also think you did the prudent thing with the refund.

When I was younger I worked at my dad's tobacco shop (ironic) and would bluntly tell customers that were asses to take their nonsense elsewhere. But that was a small, local, family operation and I had that latitude. Later I worked for a large, national electronics retailer and while I often held the line in similarly-themed situations, I just as often refunded/returned/issued gift certificates/whatever. It was simply more cost effective for the big picture to resolve the issue and move on.

I also thoroughly documented these encounters so that when the professional moochers, and they are not uncommon, returned with more shenanigans we could shut them down. I have a family member (in-law, not blood!) that pulls this kind of thing routinely. She always finds a gripe and then demands discounts, refunds, etc. Restaurants are a favorite target of hers, although I'm told she'll pull this crap anywhere. And she's alarmingly successful.

But if this is one customer, one time, I think what you did was the most sensible. I'd make a good mental picture of the customer though so you're not buying them lunch regularly.

As for the employee, if they truly smell like smoke to the average person then the employer has the right to adress that. Just can't do it. Smoke all you want, but don't smell like an ashtray. People do it all the time. The suggestions here should cover it. If they can't knock the smell down to a level that is acceptable to all but the most sensitive (life is tough all around, just because you have the scent senses of a bloodhound doesn't mean society now has to bubble wrap themselves when you enter public areas) then a restaurant is not a suitable place for them to work.

I'm not bothered by a smoke smell but I can understand why others are. But there's a limit. And "the customer is always right" may be the most abused concept in business. They simply aren't, although I get the idea.

[malligator]

Buy some of those e-cigarettes for your employees. No odor. :)

Not a bad idea. I use a vaporizor (a non-disposable e-cig) and love it. I would never recommend anyone that isn't already a smoker (or nicotine user) to start using one, but if you smoke it's so much better for everyone...and cheaper.

[KelticGator]

As many of you know, I own a Firehouse Subs restaurant. Today I had a customer come up to me and ask for their money back because the employee who brought their sub to their table smelled of cigarette smoke. While I do not give anyone a smoke break during their working hours-they do get a 30 minute break off the clock during their shift. I am asking you if 1- smelling a strong cigarette smell on your server( I don't have servers but I do deliver every sub to the table) would cause you to not eat and ask for your money back, and 2- as an owner how would you approach the issue with your employee?

While to me this would be a non-issue (even as someone who doesn't like the smell of cigarrette smoke) since the server was only there for a few seconds, there are people who are hypersensitive to certain smells and such.

From a business standpoint you don't want to lose a customer or worse . . . have a scene in front of other customers. I would try giving them a gift certificate or something they can redeem for a free sub (maybe throw in a drink) another time. What you don't want to do is set a precedent on how to get out of paying. If they didn't touch their food I would be more inclinded to believe that the smell made them feel ill. If they ate part or most of it I would be less inclined to offer them direct reimbursement and go with some kind of future rebate instead.

[g8orbill]

Just an aside- that lady just came in and broght 5 of her friends- I personally delivered their subs and they all knew to story- one them she wanted to complain about how I smelled si he could get a free sub too- they were all happy and said they would eat here more often just because of how I handled her complaint- the biggest surprise was when the complaining lady offered to give me back the free sub card- I declined- then decided to go the extra mile and gave all 5 of them a free brownie

You would have thought I had given them money-

[Lawdog88]

What would you do if you caught someone passing you phony bills? Kick them out or detain them and call the cops?


Is this a test ?

Arrest, prosecution, max sentence recommendation.

And hey, it is a Federal Crime, and Federal Court is no picnic.

[gator10010]

Look, I'm a smoker and I work in the business and here's where you are wrong.

A bad experience will be shared with others, on average, 10 times or more.
A good experience sill be shared with others much, much less.


Just a fact of life and business. So, he clearly made the right decision. In fact, I would venture to guess that he may have actually turned a negative into a positive the way he handled it. That person may have been turned off by the smell of smoke, but highly impressed with the way the OWNER (who thought they were important enough to handle himself) handled it. Or they may just be an inconsoleable jackass. Either way, it was handled the correct way.



Name 1 business that hasn't had an unhappy customer? You can't please everyone and you can't continue to lose money on customers in the name of the "customer is always right".

I never said Bill didn't handle the situation properly. I also said the smell issued needs to be addressed, my point is I wouldn't care if this customer ever dawned the doors of my sandwich shop again. Not all customers are the same and I don't treat all customers the same. If you continue to lose money on customers with the attitude "the customers always right" you can work yourself right out of business.

[gator10010]

No, but the customer is ALWAYS the customer

My man, you handle the situation with class and top notch service, no doubt.

You need to make every attempt to earn the customer's business which you have done.

I would definitely be on the look out for this customer in the future, if he even returns, and if this customer had any issues in the future it would be time for me to split ways with this customer.

[GatrHeel]

Just an aside- that lady just came in and broght 5 of her friends- I personally delivered their subs and they all knew to story- one them she wanted to complain about how I smelled si he could get a free sub too- they were all happy and said they would eat here more often just because of how I handled her complaint- the biggest surprise was when the complaining lady offered to give me back the free sub card- I declined- then decided to go the extra mile and gave all 5 of them a free brownie

You would have thought I had given them money-

I'd say this is proof you made the right decision. Well done sir. I hope those 5 each bring in 5 friends of their own.

[gator7_5]

The customer was upset he smelled smoke on an employee at a retauarant of any kind? That guy ever watch any chef competition shows? Chefs are chimneys.

[Emmitto]

The customer was upset he smelled smoke on an employee at a retauarant of any kind? That guy ever watch any chef competition shows? Chefs are chimneys.

That's true. I like Hell's Kitchen. Someone there that smoked in every non-kitchen scene will be a $250K/year head chef at some restaurant I can't get reservations for soon.

But I doubt that they smell of cigarettes in the kitchen and especially around guests. They cover it up somehow. But that is just a guess, of course.

[Row6]

"The customer is always right" is not a statement of fact but a necessary philosophy of business success, that is unless you sell rude-chic to masochists, don't care if you succeed, or already have more customers than you would ever want.

[Emmitto]

"The customer is always right" is not a statement of fact but a necessary philosophy of business success, that is unless you sell rude-chic to masochists, don't care if you succeed, or already have more customers than you would ever want.

For my part, my comment on its abuse was about customers who interpret it quite literally and some in business who acquiesce to that interpretation. The philosophy is of course sound.

[CHFG8R]

Yeah, it has to be just grossly exploitative/abusive before I think the greenlight is there to bounce the customer, and honestly, even when it is time to basically tell a guy to go pound sand, you still gotta be polite about it.

But, no, the customer is not always right. The customer, to be blunt, is often wrong, often ignorant, or often making stuff up. You simply have to treat the customer like they are probably right, even if the resolution is going to ultimately be that they do or don't get what they wanted.

Honestly, the smoke-in-my-sandwich thing makes my assumptions go toward hypersensitivity and/or trolling for free food. Doesn't mean I wouldn't humor her to some extent, but I wouldn't assume you have a genuine situation unless you get more than one comment like that.

The exception is when they try to steal from you. We had a guy come in with a "1/2 off appetizers" coupon we mistakenly left the disclaimer off and try to order 8 apps. Furthermore, they opened their wine in the parking lot to escape the corkage fee ($10). We let him slide. I personally wouldn't have if I was the business owner. I'm sorry, but I see that mentality as theft. There's nothing cute or clever about it. He was clearly trying, IMO, to steal from my employer.

[CHFG8R]

Just an aside- that lady just came in and broght 5 of her friends- I personally delivered their subs and they all knew to story- one them she wanted to complain about how I smelled si he could get a free sub too- they were all happy and said they would eat here more often just because of how I handled her complaint- the biggest surprise was when the complaining lady offered to give me back the free sub card- I declined- then decided to go the extra mile and gave all 5 of them a free brownie

You would have thought I had given them money-

I had the pleasure of working with a guy 20 years ago (He would go on to found a large national chain) who got this from the beginning. Told me point blank my first day, ". . . any problem, no matter how small, come to me. I'm here to save your tip and our reputation." Amazed me how he "got it." Remember the stiffs at Bennigans I worked at prior groveling over any comp whatsoever, while he would comp the drinks, give gift certs, whatever it needed to win them over. Next thing you know, they're back every week spending $30-$50/Head. No surprise the guy would make millions in the restaurant business.

[CHFG8R]

Name 1 business that hasn't had an unhappy customer? You can't please everyone and you can't continue to lose money on customers in the name of the "customer is always right".

I never said Bill didn't handle the situation properly. I also said the smell issued needs to be addressed, my point is I wouldn't care if this customer ever dawned the doors of my sandwich shop again. Not all customers are the same and I don't treat all customers the same. If you continue to lose money on customers with the attitude "the customers always right" you can work yourself right out of business.

I agree that there are some you hope don't come back. But barring theft or violence, you are still better off kissiing their ass all the way out the door. If they bitch about your place to 3 less people, you've already won.

[DeanMeadGator]

As many of you know, I own a Firehouse Subs restaurant. Today I had a customer come up to me and ask for their money back because the employee who brought their sub to their table smelled of cigarette smoke. While I do not give anyone a smoke break during their working hours-they do get a 30 minute break off the clock during their shift. I am asking you if 1- smelling a strong cigarette smell on your server( I don't have servers but I do deliver every sub to the table) would cause you to not eat and ask for your money back, and 2- as an owner how would you approach the issue with your employee?

My father smoked 3 packs a day in our small house. Neither I nor my wife [whose parents both smoked] smoke.

I don't like the smell of smoke, but the issue has been taken to the extreme. I am thrilled that one cannot smoke in a restaurant, office building, etc. However, the demand for the return of money because someone smelled of smoke is beyond the pale.

The reality of it is that the owner of a restaurant has to choose whether to give the money back or get into an argument with a customer. The wiser course is to just give the money back.

[AzCatFan]

The rule of 10 in marketing is for every compliment you get, it represents that one person. But for every complaint, it represents 10 people. Bill absolutely did the right thing, especially in today's world, when a complaint can go Facebook viral in a matter of minutes. And instead of letting that happen, Bill did the right thing, and the customer came back with friends. That's a win when you give up one meal, but get five in return.

As for the customer, if they are anything like me, just be near someone who smells like smoke means there is a chance for an asthma attack. Let me tell you, they are no fun. And I would expect my waiter or waitress not to smell like an ashtray and completely understand why that is extremely unappetizing for those of us with sensitive sniffers.

[g8orbill]

thanks to all who weighed in-time to put this puppy to bed