New York Has Gun Deal, With Focus on Mental Ills

[gator996]

Semi-automatic pistols included in definition of assault weapon...

State laws could become alot tougher across the northeast in addition to at the federal level..


New York Has Gun Deal, With Focus on Mental Ills
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/nyregion/new-york-legislators-hope-for-speedy-vote-on-gun-laws.html?_r=0

By THOMAS KAPLAN and DANNY HAKIM
Published: January 14, 2013


Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and lawmakers agreed on Monday to a broad package of changes to gun laws that would expand the state’s ban on assault weapons and would include new measures to keep guns away from the mentally ill

The state Senate, controlled by a coalition of Republicans and a handful of Democrats, approved the legislative package just after 11 p.m. by a lopsided vote of 43 to 18. The Assembly, where Democrats who have been strongly supportive of gun control have an overwhelming majority, planned to vote on the measure Tuesday.

Approval of the legislation would make New York the first state to act in response to the mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., last month.

Mr. Cuomo, a Democrat, had pressed lawmakers to move quickly in response to Newtown, saying, “the people of this state are crying out for help.” And the Legislature proceeded with unusual haste: Monday was the first full day of this year’s legislative session.

“We don’t need another tragedy to point out the problems in the system,” Mr. Cuomo said at a news conference.

“Enough people have lost their lives,” he added. “Let’s act.”

The expanded ban on assault weapons would broaden the definition of such weapons, banning semiautomatic pistols and rifles with detachable magazines and one military-style feature, as well as semiautomatic shotguns with one military-style feature. New Yorkers who already own such guns could keep them but would be required to register them with the state.

[Dreamliner]

Based on the provisions of this bill, seems like they're going to have to take Bloomberg's guns (and you know he has them), as clearly he suffers from delusions of grandeur.

[gatorman_07732]

Perhaps Obama can learn how to work with an opposing party from Cuomo

[helix139]

Sounds like what Dianne Frankenstein is going to propose, only hers would require BAFTE registration and a $200 federal tax stamp just like Class 3 firearms today.

[LittleBlueLW]

Idiotic.

Define 'military style' and no, not the position.

[Lawdog88]

Those "military style features" are killers. Eliminate at least one of them, and presto: with one swift jerk of the knee, the firearms become incapable of killing a human.

This is a joke, as is the legislation.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

The expanded ban on assault weapons would broaden the definition of such weapons, banning semiautomatic pistols and rifles with detachable magazines and one military-style feature, as well as semiautomatic shotguns with one military-style feature. New Yorkers who already own such guns could keep them but would be required to register them with the state.

Wonder what "one military style feature" means?

[Dreamliner]

They just had one of those hysterical 'gun buy back' events in LA. Think they bought back something like 1,500 guns. Of course these were all cash-strapped, law-abiding people selling their guns for a bit of easy money. So, gun-ownership among bad people remained wholly intact. But everyone somehow feels a little safer now.

[Lawdog88]

They just had one of those hysterical 'gun buy back' events in LA. Think they bought back something like 1,500 guns. Of course these were all cash-strapped, law-abiding people selling their guns for a bit of easy money. So, gun-ownership among bad people remained wholly intact. But everyone somehow feels a little safer now.


Well actually . . . the bad people feel a little safer now.

[gatorman_07732]

The black market is going to be very profitable

[brainstorm]

The black market is going to be very profitable

This.

Lots of guns are being purchased even as we speak. These laws will help the masses return back to their numbness and feel good in their heart since they have resolved the serial murders with a swing of the pen.

More laws for criminals to ignore.

[PIMking]

they want to move quickly because they're a wolf in sheep's clothing and pulling the wool over their eyes. this way they can push their stupid ideas along while everyone has knee jerk reactions and lose their rights.

[PIMking]

Those "military style features" are killers. Eliminate at least one of them, and presto: with one swift jerk of the knee, the firearms become incapable of killing a human.

This is a joke, as is the legislation.

Can we succeed already and give NE, Chicago, and pacific states to the liberals anti constitution folks?

[egator1245]

That's essentially all pistols except revolvers and rifles except single shot and bolt action

[mdgator05]

The black market is going to be very profitable

Black markets are always very profitable. Is it going to be more profitable? That would be hard to say as it relies on a variety of supply side issues as well as demand disincentives.

For example, if the government is able to effectively cut the supply of certain weapons, then the acquisition price by those on the black market goes up, trimming the profit margin.

On the demand side, the issue comes in the shape of the demand curve. If there are a large number of people capable and willing to pay for these features (including the risks and negative emotional aspects associated with such transactions), then the black market can be quite profitable. If not, then this could have no effect or even a potentially negative effect on black market profits.

[bluelang]

Semiauto pistols as assault weapons? Stupid.

I'd be in favor of banning concealed carry of semiautos, I guess. I mean, not strongly in favor of it, but.. whatever. The whole thing is stupid and a waste of time.

[gatorman_07732]

Black markets are always very profitable. Is it going to be more profitable? That would be hard to say as it relies on a variety of supply side issues as well as demand disincentives.

For example, if the government is able to effectively cut the supply of certain weapons, then the acquisition price by those on the black market goes up, trimming the profit margin.

On the demand side, the issue comes in the shape of the demand curve. If there are a large number of people capable and willing to pay for these features (including the risks and negative emotional aspects associated with such transactions), then the black market can be quite profitable. If not, then this could have no effect or even a potentially negative effect on black market profits.

There will be more people seeking to purchase guns through the black market and that's a fact. You will have less people obeying the law as a result of this legislation thereby creating more criminals. The government has never been effective in controlling the black market for anything. This is bad legislation all the way around and I suspect will be challenged.

[108]

i mean, since some people don't follow traffic laws, it means we shouldn't have any traffic laws right?

[gatorman_07732]

i mean, since some people don't follow traffic laws, it means we shouldn't have any traffic laws right?

Did you think of that all by yourself? :laugh:

[108]

Did you think of that all by yourself? :laugh:

do you think the black market is a justifiable excuse not to have common sense gun laws?

[gatorman_07732]

do you think the black market is a justifiable excuse not to have common sense gun laws?

I don't think Cuomo's legislation is very reasonable at all. It was a typical look at me moment. This is more about liberals jumping on an agenda they're forever had and were waiting for the right time to do it.

[mdgator05]

There will be more people seeking to purchase guns through the black market and that's a fact. You will have less people obeying the law as a result of this legislation thereby creating more criminals. The government has never been effective in controlling the black market for anything. This is bad legislation all the way around and I suspect will be challenged.

Governments have often controlled black markets. For example, you can't go out on the black market and purchase a nuclear weapon as a private citizen in the US. Why not? Do you think it is a lack of qualified providers? A lack of demand? Or is it just a lack of demand due to the punishments associated with such an action? The punishments serve both as a direct demand reduction and a mechanism by which the price is exponentially increased

Now the question becomes, what is the cost/benefit of perfect control over the market? That is a legitimate question that has often been answered by governments implicitly allowing some low level functioning of a black market due to the costs of completely eliminating the market.

[gatorman_07732]

Governments have often controlled black markets. For example, you can't go out on the black market and purchase a nuclear weapon as a private citizen in the US. Why not? Do you think it is a lack of qualified providers? A lack of demand? Or is it just a lack of demand due to the punishments associated with such an action? The punishments serve both as a direct demand reduction and a mechanism by which the price is exponentially increased

Now the question becomes, what is the cost/benefit of perfect control over the market? That is a legitimate question that has often been answered by governments implicitly allowing some low level functioning of a black market due to the costs of completely eliminating the market.

You certainly went to the extreme considering nuclear weapons have never bee legal in the first place. I can see way it took you so long to reply because you couldn't thing of anything legitimate.

[PIMking]

Semiauto pistols as assault weapons? Stupid.

I'd be in favor of banning concealed carry of semiautos, I guess. I mean, not strongly in favor of it, but.. whatever. The whole thing is stupid and a waste of time.

Why are you against concealed carry? only people who go through the crap get a CC license will be harmed by banning it.

[gatorman_07732]

Why are you against concealed carry? only people who go through the crap get a CC license will be harmed by banning it.

I could never figure out how people are against that with the extensive vetting that thats required.

[PIMking]

I could never figure out how people are against that with the extensive vetting that thats required.

it depends on the states, for instance here in Alabama you don't have to have any training what so ever, just 21 with no violent crime (even simple assault) or felonies on your record and you get the CCL.

I've been blasted by even my own gun group for advocating a 50 state wide test kind of like the Drivers license. Everyone must pass a written test, shooting test, and background along with a mental evaluation every four years. With that being done that license is valid in all 50 states thus getting rid of a lot of those stupid reciprocating laws and the law abeiting citizens will be better trained with a weapon than those who just have to be 21

[mdgator05]

You certainly went to the extreme considering nuclear weapons have never bee legal in the first place. I can see way it took you so long to reply because you couldn't thing of anything legitimate.

What does former legality have to do with a market being a black market? Would you argue the trade of loose nuclear material is not a black market effectively controlled by the government?

The extremes (also see nuclear submarines, large scale explosives, tanks, human organs, etc.) are where the government has decided that the cost of completely controlling a black market are outweighed by the benefits. However, numerous black markets are reduced in scope by the government's actions.

As for why it took so long, I had work to do. Maybe you shouldn't speculate as to what others are doing. I can see why you wouldn't want to focus on the fact that your statement was proven false though.

[malligator]

do you think the black market is a justifiable excuse not to have common sense gun laws?

I think you mean unconstitutional gun laws.

[northgagator]

i mean, since some people don't follow traffic laws, it means we shouldn't have any traffic laws right?

Real simple solution. Ban cars.

[northgagator]

I could never figure out how people are against that with the extensive vetting that thats required.

How many thugs, hit men, robbers, gangbangers have a legally owned during arm and a concealed carry permit?

[GatorNorth]

I don't think Cuomo's legislation is very reasonable at all. It was a typical look at me moment. This is more about liberals jumping on an agenda they're forever had and were waiting for the right time to do it.

Because both parties aren't chock full of political opportunistic politicos pushing an agenda?

[northgagator]

Those "military style features" are killers. Eliminate at least one of them, and presto: with one swift jerk of the knee, the firearms become incapable of killing a human.

This is a joke, as is the legislation.

Law, what are the odds that the NRA or gun manufactures will attempt to file an injunction to keep this bill from going into effect?

Also, since this bill zeros in on semi automatic!s, then doesn't that make the bill in conflict with the 14th amendment's equal protection clause (semi vs bolt or revolver)?

[egator1245]

this law was written, debated, and passed behind closed doors and immediately signed by
cuomo. Just love the way the liberals operate and govern. Kind of sounds like obama and the ACA.

[gator996]

I don't think Cuomo's legislation is very reasonable at all. It was a typical look at me moment. This is more about liberals jumping on an agenda they're forever had and were waiting for the right time to do it.


What would be "reasonable" to you?

[gatorman_07732]

What would be "reasonable" to you?

If it was me the whole legislation would be revolved around mental health, and not taking away from those who obey they laws.

[gator996]

But where has funding for that gone?

Conservatives have preferred to build more jails and decrease social services like mental health aide...

Is this not a place where your conservatives principles don't exactly agree with your policy belief?

How are you addressing mental health needs when your busy shrinking govt and cutting out the funding for social services?

:huh:

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

... not to have common sense gun laws?

Which new gun laws are common sense and why?

[gatorman_07732]

But where has funding for that gone?

Conservatives have preferred to build more jails and decrease social services like mental health aide...

Is this not a place where your conservatives principles don't exactly agree with your policy belief?

How are you addressing mental health needs when your busy shrinking govt and cutting out the funding for social services?

:huh:

And how much has the central government been bolstered since the shut down of all those mental facilities? Those resources have been diverted to other area plus some. The federal government has grown like a big fat pig.

[gator996]

Still arguing about too much spending?

OK, you want a mental health focus here....

Where's the money going to come from for this new initiative?

Cut other programs? Which ones?

Fund Obamacare and strike the "NRA" language from the law?
Hmmm, that might work...

Might be more productive than simply bitchin about a problem and not doing anything to fix it....

[gatorman_07732]

Still arguing about too much spending?

OK, you want a mental health focus here....

Where's the money going to come from for this new initiative?

Cut other programs? Which ones?

Fund Obamacare and strike the "NRA" language from the law?
Hmmm, that might work...

Might be more productive than simply bitchin about a problem and not doing anything to fix it....

I'd scale the EPA way way back
Here is what I'd eliminate: Energy, Commerce, Interior, Education, and Housing and Urban Development and this is for starters.
Oh yeah, Obamacare - see ya

[Matthanuf06]

Still arguing about too much spending?

OK, you want a mental health focus here....

Where's the money going to come from for this new initiative?

Cut other programs? Which ones?

Fund Obamacare and strike the "NRA" language from the law?
Hmmm, that might work...

Might be more productive than simply bitchin about a problem and not doing anything to fix it....

Given the size of the deficit, and it's growth over the last decade, I think it would be pretty easy to divert resources.

[gator996]

Problem is...


America rejected that plan.

[gatorman_07732]

Problem is...


America rejected that plan.

Thats because priorities in this country are bassakwards

[gator996]

Maybe its your priorities that are backward...

[gatorman_07732]

Maybe its your priorities that are backward...

Yeah I can tell by the shape of the country

[gator421]

Has anybody come up with an estimated figure as to how many guns are presently owned legally or otherwise in this country?

[gator996]

300 million guns

US Population: 318 million

[gator421]

300 million guns

US Population: 318 million

I'm surprised it's that low. I wouldn't consider myself a gun person, and I've got five.
I guess children don't have many guns.

[tegator80]

I scanned the posts on this thread and I didn't see anyone bring up what I think is the more pertinent point. This action, whether competent or politically motivated, was done at the state level. For me - and the Constitution - that is perfectly fine. Now if we are marching towards a complete dismantling of state's rights (same sex marriage, legal weed) then we are pretty much screwed as a country anyways.

Full disclosure: I am a gun owner along with a CHP. I understand the emotions behind the gun issue but if we are going to social engineer then it is up to the STATES to pull the silliness. And I would hope that NY gets some real eye opening results over their knee-jerk reaction to passing restrictive gun laws. While I wouldn't consider packing heat on a NYC subway ( I already read that book and it doesn't end well), I would hope that the new laws would alter people's designs on where to vacation. Maybe a loss of revenue will go a LONG ways to educating the noble idea-makers in the northeast.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

This action, whether competent or politically motivated, was done at the state level. For me - and the Constitution - that is perfectly fine. Now if we are marching towards a complete dismantling of state's rights (same sex marriage, legal weed) then we are pretty much screwed as a country anyways.


I am definitely a states right person, but even state law has to follow the US Constitution. Does the NY law cross the line? Don't know. But some have in the past. Most notably that in DC

[Lawdog88]

It's nobody's business how many guns you own, and again, I wouldn't be bandying that fact about, as if it doesn't mean anything anymore.

[gator996]

I'm surprised it's that low. I wouldn't consider myself a gun person, and I've got five.
I guess children don't have many guns.

How many do you need to be a "gun person"?

[Dreamliner]

I can foresee a day where your doctor is compelled to ask you, "Do you own any guns ?"

And if you answer "Yes", expect a knock at your door one day.

[gatorman_07732]

I can foresee a day where your doctor is compelled to ask you, "Do you own any guns ?"

And if you answer "Yes", expect a knock at your door one day.

My kids pediatrician asked me

[Dreamliner]

My kids pediatrician asked me

Friendly advice: when you hear a knock on your front door, stand to the side of the door. They may shoot right through the door.

[gatorman_07732]

Friendly advice: when you hear a knock on your front door, stand to the side of the door. They may shoot right through the door.

But I don't have any guns

[gatorman_07732]

996 - Will you consider moving back to NY now?

[co_gator89]

Glad I don't live in New York because this is bullshit. I bought a few more 15 round mags for my S&W because we have the same morons running loose in this state.

[wargunfan]

Based on the provisions of this bill, seems like they're going to have to take Bloomberg's guns (and you know he has them), as clearly he suffers from delusions of grandeur.

Bloomberg will have a special exemption from the law as he is a liberal.

[wargunfan]

Semi-automatic pistols included in definition of assault weapon...

State laws could become alot tougher across the northeast in addition to at the federal level..


New York Has Gun Deal, With Focus on Mental Ills
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/15/nyregion/new-york-legislators-hope-for-speedy-vote-on-gun-laws.html?_r=0

By THOMAS KAPLAN and DANNY HAKIM
Published: January 14, 2013


Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo and lawmakers agreed on Monday to a broad package of changes to gun laws that would expand the state’s ban on assault weapons and would include new measures to keep guns away from the mentally ill

The state Senate, controlled by a coalition of Republicans and a handful of Democrats, approved the legislative package just after 11 p.m. by a lopsided vote of 43 to 18. The Assembly, where Democrats who have been strongly supportive of gun control have an overwhelming majority, planned to vote on the measure Tuesday.

Approval of the legislation would make New York the first state to act in response to the mass shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., last month.

Mr. Cuomo, a Democrat, had pressed lawmakers to move quickly in response to Newtown, saying, “the people of this state are crying out for help.” And the Legislature proceeded with unusual haste: Monday was the first full day of this year’s legislative session.

“We don’t need another tragedy to point out the problems in the system,” Mr. Cuomo said at a news conference.

“Enough people have lost their lives,” he added. “Let’s act.”

The expanded ban on assault weapons would broaden the definition of such weapons, banning semiautomatic pistols and rifles with detachable magazines and one military-style feature, as well as semiautomatic shotguns with one military-style feature. New Yorkers who already own such guns could keep them but would be required to register them with the state.

Welcome to the Knee Jerk state. Home of the politically correct.

[wargunfan]

it depends on the states, for instance here in Alabama you don't have to have any training what so ever, just 21 with no violent crime (even simple assault) or felonies on your record and you get the CCL.

I've been blasted by even my own gun group for advocating a 50 state wide test kind of like the Drivers license. Everyone must pass a written test, shooting test, and background along with a mental evaluation every four years. With that being done that license is valid in all 50 states thus getting rid of a lot of those stupid reciprocating laws and the law abeiting citizens will be better trained with a weapon than those who just have to be 21

You're giving the State of Alabama to much control. Your government may not always be good ole boys.

[PIMking]

so apparently NY had a typo on the new laws making it illegal for anyone to own a pistol or revolver.

http://i.imgur.com/pWf1q.jpg

I wonder how long it will take them to fix this