Liberalism and blacks

[g8orbill]

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/01/15/liberalism-versus-blacks-n1489212?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

From the article:

Liberals try to show their concern for the poor by raising the level of minimum wage laws. Yet they show no interest in hard evidence that minimum wage laws create disastrous levels of unemployment among young blacks in this country, as such laws created high unemployment rates among young people in general in European countries.

The black family survived centuries of slavery and generations of Jim Crow, but it has disintegrated in the wake of the liberals' expansion of the welfare state. Most black children grew up in homes with two parents during all that time but most grow up with only one parent today.

Liberals have pushed affirmative action, supposedly for the benefit of blacks and other minorities. But two recent factual studies show that affirmative action in college admissions has led to black students with every qualification for success being artificially turned into failures by being mismatched with colleges for the sake of racial body count.

[108]

I don't see why black youth are being singled out here, nor do I understand why the writer thinks that increasing black youth employment outweighs the negative affects of reducing minimum wage of all people (white, black, young, old) who receive it, which isn't a livable wage as is, and would bring down the wages of all working people..

"Conservatives try to show their concern for the poor by decreasing the level of minimum wage laws. Yet they show no interest in hard evidence that lowerering minimum wage creates disastrous reduction of all wages"?

And FYI, millions of people do get paid lower the minimum wage under the table, and that money goes right back into the economy

[bluelang]

I think there has to be some kind of middle ground there. It really seems like we should be able to enable the able-bodied workforce without giving money away or lowering the standard too far.

Because the other side of the min wage coin is that eliminating MW creates a permanent class of working poor below the poverty line. That isn't much better than having them on welfare from the perspective of keeping crime down and enabling every American to contribute at the maximum of their potential.

[fredsanford]

This is typical right wing shift the blame stuff.

If the minimum wage goes up and hiring goes down, that's on the people hiring, not the job seekers. We could have full employment if we reinstituted slavery tomorrow.

[g8orbill]

I would not be in favor of eliminating min wage but in Florida for it to be tied to the CPI is pretty ree dik uh luss-when min wage goes up prices go up

shab is everything about race with you?

[fredsanford]

I would not be in favor of eliminating min wage but in Florida for it to be tied to the CPI is pretty ree dik uh luss-when min wage goes up prices go up

shab is everything about race with you?

Says the guy who posted an article focusing on unemployment purely amongst blacks.

[g8orbill]

prove to me where this writer is wrong

[fredsanford]

prove to me where this writer is wrong

The first paragraph talks about UE amongst blacks. If true, what he describes would increase UE amongst all young people. Why single blacks out?

His second paragraph talks about the 1-parent family problem in the black community. How this connects to liberalism I have no idea.

Finally, he talks about unattributed research (undoubtedly from Heritage or Cato) about the failings of Affirmative Action. Considering the source, I have no reason to believe his theory here.

[g8orbill]

you may have no reason to believe because you don't like the source but you have not proven anything he said to be wrong

[gatorman_07732]

Says the guy who posted an article focusing on unemployment purely amongst blacks.

Legit topic, blacks are the hardest hit in unemployment demographics

[fredsanford]

you may have no reason to believe because you don't like the source but you have not proven anything he said to be wrong

When I read a right wing article, it has to prove to me that it is right. So many have been debunked, I have no reason to give them any benefit of any doubt.

I'm still wondering when those 8 million jobs from the Bush tax cuts Heritage predicted are going to be created.

[JerseyGator01]

Liberals prefer op-ed pieces of 500 whole words to books.

[108]

Legit topic, blacks are the hardest hit in unemployment demographics

there is a reason for that and it isn't because of the nations minimum wage laws being too high

[gatorman_07732]

there is a reason for that and it isn't because of the nations minimum wage laws being too high

What is it?

[g8orbill]

there is a reason for that and it isn't because of the nations minimum wage laws being too high

I can answer that 108-how they presented themselves for the interview is very important- we do not allow visible tatoos, we expect people when they come in for an interview to be neat and clean- if they have dirty fingernails-no job. if they have been convicted of a crime-no job. if they have rotten teeth-no job. if they have BO-no job. if they come in with their pants hanging off the end of their ass-no job-and I do not hire minors. If they have had more than 2 jobs in the last 6 months-no job

I look for pleasant smiling faces who like dealing with other people and who can carry on a conversation

race does not matter
male or female does not matter
sexual orientation does not matter
other than having to be 18-age does not matter

we do a detailed orientation of what is acceptable and what is not and what we expect of them
we spend a great deal of time on serving the customer
we spend a great deal of time on food safety- we give them a class on it and then they have to take a test to be safeserve qualified
we spend a great deal of time talking about the Firehouse culture
we thoroughly train them and do not throw them to the wolves
it would surprise you to know how many of my employees when they leave to work elsewhere still come back to visit- it might surprise you how many of them come to me for a recommendation


it must work as over half my staff has been with me over a year

young kids today in general have no idea how to fill out an application nor how to present themselves for an interview

[mocgator]

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/01/15/liberalism-versus-blacks-n1489212?utm_source=thdaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl

From the article:

Liberals try to show their concern for the poor by raising the level of minimum wage laws. Yet they show no interest in hard evidence that minimum wage laws create disastrous levels of unemployment among young blacks in this country, as such laws created high unemployment rates among young people in general in European countries.

The black family survived centuries of slavery and generations of Jim Crow, but it has disintegrated in the wake of the liberals' expansion of the welfare state. Most black children grew up in homes with two parents during all that time but most grow up with only one parent today.

Liberals have pushed affirmative action, supposedly for the benefit of blacks and other minorities. But two recent factual studies show that affirmative action in college admissions has led to black students with every qualification for success being artificially turned into failures by being mismatched with colleges for the sake of racial body count.

100% about buying votes and being able to say "those mean Republicans are racists because they don't give you free stuff". Really as simple as that. The anti achievement mentality of the urban black American perpetuates it all.

[mocgator]

This is typical right wing shift the blame stuff.

If the minimum wage goes up and hiring goes down, that's on the people hiring, not the job seekers. We could have full employment if we reinstituted slavery tomorrow.

Yes.... Those bad employers not wanting to go broke.... It's their fault. What a joke.

[mocgator]

there is a reason for that and it isn't because of the nations minimum wage laws being too high

Agreed. It's the anti achievement culture of urban black Americans. It's a disease with no cure.

[Dreamliner]

Liberalism is definitely good for blacks. It got a bro in the White House!

[fredsanford]

100% about buying votes and being able to say "those mean Republicans are racists because they don't give you free stuff". Really as simple as that. The anti achievement mentality of the urban black American perpetuates it all.

As long as your politicians keep talking that mess, they'll be as relevant as the Whigs.

Keep it up.

[PIMking]

I don't see why black youth are being singled out here, nor do I understand why the writer thinks that increasing black youth employment outweighs the negative affects of reducing minimum wage of all people (white, black, young, old) who receive it, which isn't a livable wage as is, and would bring down the wages of all working people..

"Conservatives try to show their concern for the poor by decreasing the level of minimum wage laws. Yet they show no interest in hard evidence that lowerering minimum wage creates disastrous reduction of all wages"?

And FYI, millions of people do get paid lower the minimum wage under the table, and that money goes right back into the economy

I must be a weird conservative since I only see Americans as Americans, not White, Black, Purple or toe fungus green.

[northgagator]

I don't see why black youth are being singled out here, nor do I understand why the writer thinks that increasing black youth employment outweighs the negative affects of reducing minimum wage of all people (white, black, young, old) who receive it, which isn't a livable wage as is, and would bring down the wages of all working people.
Anytime you artificially propped up the cost of labor you throw many things off balance.

1, Some part time jobs not covered by minimum wage are forced to up the price that they pay for labor. Do this has the employer in some case paying more for the labor then it is worth. To make up the employer had to cut cost somewhere else or raise his prices. End result the service or goods provided cost more than they are worth.
2, Once the employee is hired at minimum wage good luck at getting a raise provided that the employee does not add value to the goods or service.
3, believe it or not minimum wage does not encourage a below minimum wager earner to go out and increase his/her job skills. At least in the short term.
4, Some employers could/would hire more employees if they could get a break from minimum wage and other gov't regs.

"Conservatives try to show their concern for the poor by decreasing the level of minimum wage laws. Yet they show no interest in hard evidence that lowering minimum wage creates disastrous reduction of all wages"? The last and what could be the current recession had a more disastrous impact on wages then the minimum wages.
Question: What happens when the demand for a product goes down? Answer: The price drops.
At this time the unemployment rates show that the demand for labor is down. Many occupation had slow salary increases and many had salary reductions. Shouldn't minimum wages be subject to market conditions.

And FYI, millions of people do get paid lower the minimum wage under the table, and that money goes right back into the economy

Yep, and if gov't regulations and the minimum wage applied to those jobs they would dwindle away. The results would be more entitlements from the gov't and more suffering to the poor.

Here is another thought about that under the table money. It cost the Gov't less to let those arrangements go on than it would to dole out entitlements. Plus goods and services are being provided at the same time.

[Gatormb]

The first paragraph talks about UE amongst blacks. If true, what he describes would increase UE amongst all young people. Why single blacks out?

His second paragraph talks about the 1-parent family problem in the black community. How this connects to liberalism I have no idea.

Finally, he talks about unattributed research (undoubtedly from Heritage or Cato) about the failings of Affirmative Action. Considering the source, I have no reason to believe his theory here.

Might have something to do with the fact that the entitlements of the "Great Society" increase if you are not married to the father of your children. Benefits are calculated on family income and the number of Dependents. No husbands income + more dependents = more entitlement $$$$.:yes:

[ChartsandGrafs]

You can tell how the liberals really feel about blacks by their almost fanatical support for Planned Parenthood, which was primarily created to cull as many poor black people from the human herd as possible.

[sfa10]

Wow...

[rivergator]

You can tell how the liberals really feel about blacks by their almost fanatical support for Planned Parenthood, which was primarily created to cull as many poor black people from the human herd as possible.

Because fiction is the best way to make a point?

[ChartsandGrafs]

Because fiction is the best way to make a point?

Which part is fiction, exactly? Was Planned Parenthood not founded and funded by eugenicists Margaret Sanger and the Rockefeller Foundation? Do liberals not fanatically support Planned Parenthood in the present day, despite the fact that it was founded by vocal eugenicists?

Tell us, please.

[rivergator]

Which part is fiction, exactly? Was Planned Parenthood not founded and funded by eugenicists Margaret Sanger and the Rockefeller Foundation? Do liberals not fanatically support Planned Parenthood in the present day, despite the fact that it was founded by vocal eugenicists?

Tell us, please.

She seemed to agree with some things that eugenicists believed. That hardly means she wanted to wipe out as many blacks as possible.

[northgagator]

I think there has to be some kind of middle ground there. It really seems like we should be able to enable the able-bodied workforce without giving money away or lowering the standard too far.
1, A requirement to do community service in return for public assistance.
2, Drug and Alcohol screening when on public Assistance.
3, Free educational classes to get people on public assistance up to a 12th grade Math, Reading, and Writing level. Proved a lucrative bonus for a successful completion.
6, Strict requirements on personal conduct while on public assistance.
7, Encourage part time work while on public assistance.
8, Vocational classes and a lucrative bonus for a successful completion and another bonus for landing a job and keeping it for one year.
9, Free birth control while on public assistance (if you can't afford them you can't have them).
10, Garnishment of wages and entitlements for men who father children out of wedlock.
11, Mentors and entrepreneur workshops for those on public assistance who want to start a small business. Small business loans/grants for qualified applicants.

Because the other side of the min wage coin is that eliminating MW creates a permanent class of working poor below the poverty line.
Minimum wage in the US is anywhere from $15K to $20K a year, provided that the wage earner is getting 40 hours a week. Hardly a wage to take care of a family of two or three and above the poverty level. Eliminating the minimum wage is not going to make it that much worst.
As far as a permanent class of working class poor, minimum wage jobs are usually entry level jobs. You have to be a real loser to stay at that level with job skills and education. Sorry if that last statement sounds harsh but it is a competitive world. Getting that first job is no longer a start. That start begins in childhood by learning a good work ethic and getting an education. One you get that first job your next priority is to improve your marketability working toward your first promotion or next job.

[

[ChartsandGrafs]

She seemed to agree with some things that eugenicists believed. That hardly means she wanted to wipe out as many blacks as possible.

You think? Let's look at some of her choice quotes:

We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.

What about this one?

Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock.

Nah, that doesn't sound like an interest in wiping out undesirables (blacks).

How about this one?

Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying ... demonstrates our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism ... [Philanthropists] encourage the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant ... We are paying for, and even submitting to, the dictates of an ever-increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all.

Maybe this one?

Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race.

What race was she talking about?

And there's more where that came from:

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

These are the views of the woman who founded Planned Parenthood. These were her motivations in founding Planned Parenthood. It was all about eugenics, and she was funded by known eugenicists at the Rockefeller Foundation.

Question: How could you possibly support and defend Planned Parenthood after knowing all this? How could you possibly support and defend an organization founded and funded by racist eugenicists?

Answer: Because you agree with their sentiments.

[oaklandroadie]

The fact that anyone could not know Margaret Sanger was a disgusting, vile racist, is, well, disgusting and vile.

Of course, it's the tea party that is wildly racist.

[ChartsandGrafs]

More on Sanger, eugenics, and Planned Parenthood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEja-1emRic

[PITBOSS]

Liberalism is definitely good for blacks. It got a bro in the White House!

More disparaging comments about blacks from Dreamliner.

[gator996]

I must be a weird conservative since I only see Americans as Americans, not White, Black, Purple or toe fungus green.


You must be a weird conservative...

The author of the article obviously sees color.
The OP of the thread swears he doesn't see color but agrees with drivel like this...

What I see are a whole bunch of characteristics that can be attributed to youth of any color. But, somehow the OP agrees that this is somehow a "black" issue and liberalism is the cause. :huh:

Normally when I hear someone say that they "don't see color" I think one of two things:

1. They're irrational because color exists
2. They're lying

[g8orbill]

996- I see color everyday and have never said I don't- I have said I leave race out of my business practices and also out of how I treat people.

Dr Sowell is a well educated black man and this is his view of what liberalism has done to his race- no where does he say anything about this issue not crossing lines of all colors in today's world-this article is his views of ONLY how liberalism has affected his race. I happen to agree with him on his viewpoints-not sure how that makes any kind of racial statement at all

I do not dislike your viewpoints because you are a black man

I dislike your viewpoints because you are a liberal

[mocgator]

As long as your politicians keep talking that mess, they'll be as relevant as the Whigs.

Keep it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpx3wLAJE44

[gator996]

996- I see color everyday and have never said I don't- I have said I leave race out of my business practices and also out of how I treat people.

Dr Sowell is a well educated black man and this is his view of what liberalism has done to his race- no where does he say anything about this issue not crossing lines of all colors in today's world-this article is his views of ONLY how liberalism has affected his race. I happen to agree with him on his viewpoints-not sure how that makes any kind of racial statement at all

I do not dislike your viewpoints because you are a black man

I dislike your viewpoints because you are a liberal



Wasn't speaking of you or Sowell....

My comments were directed to quotation...

[gatorman_07732]

You must be a weird conservative...

The author of the article obviously sees color.
The OP of the thread swears he doesn't see color but agrees with drivel like this...

What I see are a whole bunch of characteristics that can be attributed to youth of any color. But, somehow the OP agrees that this is somehow a "black" issue and liberalism is the cause. :huh:

Normally when I hear someone say that they "don't see color" I think one of two things:

1. They're irrational because color exists
2. They're lying

For once I agree with you 996. Anyone who says they don't see color is a lying sack of chit. Unless you are blind you have to see something that is in front of your face.

[g8orbill]

oops my bad-thanks for the clarification

[rivergator]

You think? Let's look at some of her choice quotes:



What about this one?



Nah, that doesn't sound like an interest in wiping out undesirables (blacks).

How about this one?



Maybe this one?



What race was she talking about?

And there's more where that came from:

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

These are the views of the woman who founded Planned Parenthood. These were her motivations in founding Planned Parenthood. It was all about eugenics, and she was funded by known eugenicists at the Rockefeller Foundation.

Question: How could you possibly support and defend Planned Parenthood after knowing all this? How could you possibly support and defend an organization founded and funded by racist eugenicists?

Answer: Because you agree with their sentiments.

I think Factcheck addresses those misconceptions pretty well:

link (http://www.factcheck.org/2011/11/cains-false-attack-on-planned-parenthood/)

[The_Graygator]

Fact: The Libs/Democrats have blacks right where they want and have always wanted them... in chains and enslaved to liberal welfare.

[rivergator]

Fact: The Libs/Democrats have blacks right where they want and have always wanted them... in chains and enslaved to liberal welfare.

No, just repeated opinion without any knowledge.

[dadx4]

You liberals crack me up.

[rivergator]

Always kind of amazing to watch Republicans continually claim that all blacks are on welfare, are slaves and are too stupid to know what's good for them. And then those same Republicans are shocked when blacks don't come rushing to the GOP tent.

[gator996]

River's got it...

:yes:

[dadx4]

Always kind of amazing to watch Republicans continually claim that all blacks are on welfare, are slaves and are too stupid to know what's good for them. And then those same Republicans are shocked when blacks don't come rushing to the GOP tent.

Just look at the black population percentages that are on welfare versus any other race and it should be obvious.

[gator996]

Just look at the black population percentages that are on welfare versus any other race and it should be obvious.


Obvious of what?

What else is different about the black experience in this country versus any other group?

:joecool:

[ChartsandGrafs]

I think Factcheck addresses those misconceptions pretty well:

link (http://www.factcheck.org/2011/11/cains-false-attack-on-planned-parenthood/)

I don't find any of that very convincing at all.

Looks like damage control to me.

[mocgator]

Always kind of amazing to watch Republicans continually claim that all blacks are on welfare, are slaves and are too stupid to know what's good for them. And then those same Republicans are shocked when blacks don't come rushing to the GOP tent.

? I am not shocked at all. Why would I be shocked that "Mrs. Obama-phone" didn't vote for Romney?

My claim, which is obvious fact, is that the democrat party with their condescending programs for black Americans are guaranteed to keep black Americans at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder... thus they keep voting for democrats.

It's pretty simple actually...

[rivergator]

? I am not shocked at all. Why would I be shocked that "Mrs. Obama-phone" didn't vote for Romney?

My claim, which is obvious fact, is that the democrat party with their condescending programs for black Americans are guaranteed to keep black Americans at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder... thus they keep voting for democrats.

It's pretty simple actually...

The cell phone program was not started by Obama nor is it just for blacks.

[wargunfan]

You think? Let's look at some of her choice quotes:



What about this one?



Nah, that doesn't sound like an interest in wiping out undesirables (blacks).

How about this one?



Maybe this one?



What race was she talking about?

And there's more where that came from:

http://www.dianedew.com/sanger.htm

These are the views of the woman who founded Planned Parenthood. These were her motivations in founding Planned Parenthood. It was all about eugenics, and she was funded by known eugenicists at the Rockefeller Foundation.

Question: How could you possibly support and defend Planned Parenthood after knowing all this? How could you possibly support and defend an organization founded and funded by racist eugenicists?

Answer: Because you agree with their sentiments.

And 40% of all black babies are aborted.
http://www.blackgenocide.org/black.html

[rivergator]

I don't find any of that very convincing at all.

Looks like damage control to me.

Of course you don't. More from the Wash Post:

But don’t believe everything you read on the Internet. The most damning quote by Sanger has been taken out of context. Meanwhile, a number of doctoral dissertations have closely examined the early days of Planned Parenthood and its relationship with the African American community, and found nothing to confirm these allegations.

link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/herman-cains-rewriting-of-birth-control-history/2011/10/31/gIQAr53uaM_blog.html?hpid=z2)

[ChartsandGrafs]

Of course you don't. More from the Wash Post.

It's always good to see liberals standing up for and defending eugenicists, especially those who spoke as openly about creating a master race through the elimination of "bad [human] stock" as Hitler did.

Think about that for a moment. You're actually here defending the philosophy of Hitler. LOL.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Margaret Sanger: "Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock... Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."

Rivergator: "But, but, but... she was just misunderstood and those quotes are taken out of context. She was really a good person. So what if she said the same kind of stuff as Hitler! Eugenics is no big deal!"

http://www.free-lebanon.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Baghdad-Bob.jpg

[rivergator]

It's always good to see liberals standing up for and defending eugenicists, especially those who spoke as openly about creating a master race through the elimination of "bad [human] stock" as Hitler did.

Think about that for a moment. You're actually here defending the philosophy of Hitler. LOL.

Yes, I'm defending Hitler and you're defending Dahmer. No, wait. Gacy. No, wait ...
That's really your argument? You have nothing more to offer than claiming I'm defending Hitler?

[ChartsandGrafs]

Yes, I'm defending Hitler and you're defending Dahmer. No, wait. Gacy. No, wait ...
That's really your argument? You have nothing more to offer than claiming I'm defending Hitler?

What argument do I need to make? You've already done my job for me. You're defending a eugenicist who spoke about creating a pure race, much as Hitler did. Think about that. You're defending a eugenicist.

What more needs to be said?

[rivergator]

What argument do I need to make? You've already done my job for me. You're defending a eugenicist who spoke about creating a pure race, much as Hitler did. Think about that. You're defending a eugenicist.

What more needs to be said?

because stupid is good?

[ChartsandGrafs]

because stupid is good?

What are you saying? Is this more eugenics advocacy? That stupid people should be euthanized?

What?

[neisgator]

Anyone with any economic sense knows that the Min Wage laws have hurt blacks severely.

[rivergator]

What are you saying? Is this more eugenics advocacy? That stupid people should be euthanized?

What?

Well, I think I already said it: Yes, Sanger clearly agreed with some of what the eugenics proponents were saying, but that doesn't mean her intention was to wipe out that black race. Especially given the historical evidence that says that's not true.
And you really want to turn that into "Yeah, well that means you support Hitler?"

[ChartsandGrafs]

Well, I think I already said it: Yes, Sanger clearly agreed with some of what the eugenics proponents were saying, but that doesn't mean her intention was to wipe out that black race.
And you really want to turn that into "Yeah, well that means you support Hitler?"

Hey, man, if you don't mind supporting an entity that was founded by a eugenicist and based on the principles of eugenics, then what more is there to say?

Say it loud and say it proud: Planned Eugenicshood FTW!