Lacy, Milliner and Fluker entering draft [Archive] - GatorCountry.com Swamp Gas Forums

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 04:54 PM

[QUOTE=malscott;6310493 Especially with their 60 coaches locked in some room analyzing data and tendencies...just saying.[/QUOTE]

Are you "just saying" that Alabama is more dedicated to doing everything possible that is allowed under the current to win and dominate and The Gator program is unwilling to do those same things.

And that is Alabama's fault and not our own.

If all these analyst are allowed, and they surely must be because if the experts on this board are aware of this nefarious scheme I am fairly confident Foley and Muschamp and the the NCAA is too, then why the hell do The Gators not follow suit?

First it was Bryant was signing 2,000 players a year (when the rules allowed such), and then Saban oversigned (when the rules allow such), and now the dastardly demon dares employes too many staff members (when the rules obviously allow such). Maybe instead of bitching and moaning about someone else smart enough to find a way to excel given the rules maybe our braintrust should copy what Saban and Alabama do.

Or is our idea of competing diminishing the excellence of others instead of doing better and more ourselves?

Sound like a bunch of crying babies here.

LoyalGatorFan

01-11-2013, 05:02 PM

They won't skip a beat. Not with their QB and line reasonably intact. Especially with their 60 coaches locked in some room analyzing data and tendencies...just saying. The again, every dynasty comes to an end. Even a brief stumble would be most appreciated.

I'm not sure I would say their lline is reasonably intact...don't they lose 4/5 of it?

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 05:06 PM

Three of five OLmen leaving, plus the TE.

Biggest change will be the DL. Lose all three there, but Alabama does play about eight in a regular rotation.

Go2gtr

01-11-2013, 05:24 PM

:wave:

Gatorrick22

01-11-2013, 05:49 PM

Are you "just saying" that Alabama is more dedicated to doing everything possible that is allowed under the current to win and dominate and The Gator program is unwilling to do those same things.

And that is Alabama's fault and not our own.

If all these analyst are allowed, and they surely must be because if the experts on this board are aware of this nefarious scheme I am fairly confident Foley and Muschamp and the the NCAA is too, then why the hell do The Gators not follow suit?

First it was Bryant was signing 2,000 players a year (when the rules allowed such), and then Saban oversigned (when the rules allow such), and now the dastardly demon dares employes too many staff members (when the rules obviously allow such). Maybe instead of bitching and moaning about someone else smart enough to find a way to excel given the rules maybe our braintrust should copy what Saban and Alabama do.

Or is our idea of competing diminishing the excellence of others instead of doing better and more ourselves?

Sound like a bunch of crying babies here.

He cheats... What's so hard to understand about that?

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 06:00 PM

He cheats... What's so hard to understand about that?

If you are right then he will be busted in short order and all will be right in the world.

If you are wrong, and we bury our head in the sand, Alabama will pull further ahead and we will cry and moan that someone is better than us without us even trying to compete.

Bryant signed scores of players at a time when it was allowed. Why did The Mighty Gators not do the same thing? We we too "honored" to give hundreds of young men the opportunity for a free college education or were we just not good enough to attract enough quality football players to even accept our offers?

I have not counted up, but I will assert nonetheless that you will not find a four year period in the last 20 years where we have signed only 85 players over a rolling four year period. So are we also actually guilty of cheating? Because signing more than the limit in any four year period indicates we have oversigned also - likely the result of cutting players exactly like the demon Saban.

And are you telling us we do not have a single "football analyst" on our staff? Because if we do then we too are cheating just like the demon Saban. Or is your problem that he works harder at winning than we do and therefore he cheats.

Easier to call someone a cheater than to admit he is willing to outwork you I guess.

I have said it here before, it would be wonderful if our fan base would spend as much time demanding our program strives to live up to the sustained history of the Alabama football program instead of trying to feel less inferior by tearing theirs down.

gator85jd

01-11-2013, 06:56 PM

If you are right then he will be busted in short order and all will be right in the world.

If you are wrong, and we bury our head in the sand, Alabama will pull further ahead and we will cry and moan that someone is better than us without us even trying to compete.

Bryant signed scores of players at a time when it was allowed. Why did The Mighty Gators not do the same thing? We we too "honored" to give hundreds of young men the opportunity for a free college education or were we just not good enough to attract enough quality football players to even accept our offers?

I have not counted up, but I will assert nonetheless that you will not find a four year period in the last 20 years where we have signed only 85 players over a rolling four year period. So are we also actually guilty of cheating? Because signing more than the limit in any four year period indicates we have oversigned also - likely the result of cutting players exactly like the demon Saban.

And are you telling us we do not have a single "football analyst" on our staff? Because if we do then we too are cheating just like the demon Saban. Or is your problem that he works harder at winning than we do and therefore he cheats.

Easier to call someone a cheater than to admit he is willing to outwork you I guess.

I have said it here before, it would be wonderful if our fan base would spend as much time demanding our program strives to live up to the sustained history of the Alabama football program instead of trying to feel less inferior by tearing theirs down.

He cheats. Why do you get so defensive about that? Does he work hard? I think he does. But cheating and hard work aren't mutually exclusive. Should we admire him for working hard? Sure. Should we ignore the fact that he cheats? No.

Don't get so defensive about him cheating. If you want to praise Saban, go hang out on the Bammer message boards for a while.

gatordee

01-11-2013, 07:10 PM

I'm not sure I would say their lline is reasonably intact...don't they lose 4/5 of it?

With their senior center being the leader of that line and now gone, will not be easy to replace.

corpgator

01-11-2013, 07:18 PM

If you are right then he will be busted in short order and all will be right in the world.

If you are wrong, and we bury our head in the sand, Alabama will pull further ahead and we will cry and moan that someone is better than us without us even trying to compete.

Bryant signed scores of players at a time when it was allowed. Why did The Mighty Gators not do the same thing? We we too "honored" to give hundreds of young men the opportunity for a free college education or were we just not good enough to attract enough quality football players to even accept our offers?

I have not counted up, but I will assert nonetheless that you will not find a four year period in the last 20 years where we have signed only 85 players over a rolling four year period. So are we also actually guilty of cheating? Because signing more than the limit in any four year period indicates we have oversigned also - likely the result of cutting players exactly like the demon Saban.

And are you telling us we do not have a single "football analyst" on our staff? Because if we do then we too are cheating just like the demon Saban. Or is your problem that he works harder at winning than we do and therefore he cheats.

Easier to call someone a cheater than to admit he is willing to outwork you I guess.

I have said it here before, it would be wonderful if our fan base would spend as much time demanding our program strives to live up to the sustained history of the Alabama football program instead of trying to feel less inferior by tearing theirs down.

Three things. First, you sound like a troll. Second, you do realize that oversigning causes the other players who lost their scholly to suddenly not have a free education, right? This assumes that their schollies were pulled, which is almost certainly happening at Bama since way more players leave their program early than any other.

And finally, we have actually undersigned for going on 6 years now. If players leave of their own volition whether by transferring or going to the NFL early, you can fill their spots. We haven't even done that, playing with just 75 players this past season.

adgator

01-11-2013, 07:30 PM

UF is a good example of what can happen when you are not strong across the O-Line. UA is losing it's 3 best O lineman (that's a lot)

Animagator

01-11-2013, 07:34 PM

If you are right then he will be busted in short order and all will be right in the world.

If you are wrong, and we bury our head in the sand, Alabama will pull further ahead and we will cry and moan that someone is better than us without us even trying to compete.

Bryant signed scores of players at a time when it was allowed. Why did The Mighty Gators not do the same thing? We we too "honored" to give hundreds of young men the opportunity for a free college education or were we just not good enough to attract enough quality football players to even accept our offers?

I have not counted up, but I will assert nonetheless that you will not find a four year period in the last 20 years where we have signed only 85 players over a rolling four year period. So are we also actually guilty of cheating? Because signing more than the limit in any four year period indicates we have oversigned also - likely the result of cutting players exactly like the demon Saban.

And are you telling us we do not have a single "football analyst" on our staff? Because if we do then we too are cheating just like the demon Saban. Or is your problem that he works harder at winning than we do and therefore he cheats.

Easier to call someone a cheater than to admit he is willing to outwork you I guess.

I have said it here before, it would be wonderful if our fan base would spend as much time demanding our program strives to live up to the sustained history of the Alabama football program instead of trying to feel less inferior by tearing theirs down.

I think Bama is great and deserves every encomium that comes their way. Your pretense that you are a Gator seeking to improve out lot is base and transparent, however. Clearly you are a Bama panegyrist. Also your predicate fact that all those who cheat in college football get caught is so obtuse as to be hilarious. The rest of your rant is basic, simplistic and largely empty nominalism. I hope we are never a win at all costs because that is all that matters kind of program. I doubt Bama is really that either. You do them an injustice. That said, I admire empty spaces and your preservation of such between your ears is admirable, but the lacunae in your soul is disturbing.

Minister_of_Information

01-11-2013, 07:45 PM

Nicely done Anima. I even had to look up a word.

Emmitto

01-11-2013, 08:01 PM

Nicely done Anima. I even had to look up a word.

Just one? Show off.

Swampmaster

01-11-2013, 08:03 PM

no big loss--alabama's loaded at those positions--they'll just reload with more superstars waiting in the wings.

Minister_of_Information

01-11-2013, 08:46 PM

Just one? Show off.

Guilty...

GatorBen

01-11-2013, 08:57 PM

I have not counted up, but I will assert nonetheless that you will not find a four year period in the last 20 years where we have signed only 85 players over a rolling four year period.

Well, just for kicks, lets try the last four years.

2012 - 22
2011 - 19
2010 - 27
2009 - 17

Four year total: 85

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 11:07 PM

Well, just for kicks, lets try the last four years.

2012 - 22
2011 - 19
2010 - 27
2009 - 17

Four year total: 85

Are we back-counting anyone in this class toward the 2009 total?

How did we sign 27 in 2010 if we are too honorable to not adhere to the annual ceiling of 25?

GatorBen

01-11-2013, 11:21 PM

Are we back-counting anyone in this class toward the 2009 total?

How did we sign 27 in 2010 if we are too honorable to not adhere to the annual ceiling of 25?

Let's not backtrack here, you said we haven't had a rolling four years of 85 or less in the past 20 years. I only had to look at the last four years to prove you were wrong.

And considering that we are well under the 85 scholarship limit coming into this year due to natural attrition, I don't exactly see what the problem with going over 25 is. Don't move the target, suck it up and admit that you were wrong.

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 11:25 PM

I think Bama is great and deserves every encomium that comes their way. Your pretense that you are a Gator seeking to improve out lot is base and transparent, however. Clearly you are a Bama panegyrist. Also your predicate fact that all those who cheat in college football get caught is so obtuse as to be hilarious. The rest of your rant is basic, simplistic and largely empty nominalism. I hope we are never a win at all costs because that is all that matters kind of program. I doubt Bama is really that either. You do them an injustice. That said, I admire empty spaces and your preservation of such between your ears is admirable, but the lacunae in your soul is disturbing.

Graduate of both schools.

Does not change the fact arguing that someone is beating you because they do everything possible WITHIN the rules when you are too honorable to do whatever possible within those same rules says more about you than them.

Loved the days when both schools were battling it out in the SECCG.

The thinly disguised Saban- and Alabama-envy those who post that he and Alabama do nothing more than cheat to win as he/they have is reflective of a culture that disgusts me. Only reason I have commented here.

Bryant did not cheat by signing scores of players. He did what the rules said was permissible. The fact the Gator braintrust at the time did not says they either failed to take advantage of an opportunity or were incapable of attracting enough quality players. That is Florida's fault and not Bryant's or Alabama's.

Saban signs the legal limit each year. I hate to break it to some here, but after you leave pee-wee ball not everyone gets a trophy for participation each year and sometimes you get cut in life when you fail, or refuse, to live up to your end of the agreement. I may be wrong, but every player Saban has removed from academic scholarship has been allowed to substitute it with some other form of academic or school aid. Means they have the option of giving up football to remain at Alabama or transfer to another school willing to give them athletic aid. Seems no one is hurt there and no one loses the opportunity for a cost-free education. The notion here, and elsewhere, that this cheating says more about the ability of the accuser to understand than it does what Saban does.

The new, to me at least, and latest rant that Saban employees too many "analyst" is even further proof some had rather find a reason to rationalize the fact someone is more successful than them instead of going to work to get better themselves.

Look, if some here want to protect their fragile ego that the "mobile homers" are more successful at football by offering some stupid argument that the other side has to be cheating go for it. Do not be offended when someone in your own house shines the light on that stupidity.

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 11:34 PM

Let's not backtrack here, you said we haven't had a rolling four years of 85 or less in the past 20 years. I only had to look at the last four years to prove you were wrong.

And considering that we are well under the 85 scholarship limit coming into this year due to natural attrition, I don't exactly see what the problem with going over 25 is. Don't move the target, suck it up and admit that you were wrong.

So Florida is under the limit only due to natural attrition but other programs are able to sign more than 85 over a four-year period only because of cheating and dishonorable methods. I agree with you, signing more that 21.5 players annually is not a problem.

I also live in the real world and realize that "natural attrition" might include a player is not good enough to take up a roster spot and needs to be replaced with a more capable player. I do not consider it "cheating" or unethical to tell the young man he has other financial options available to him if he wants to remain at that institution outside of participating on the football team or he is free to transfer to another school willing to provide him an athletic scholarship. Some here, apparently, disagree with this notion.

Okay, assuming your numbers of total players signed is not actually total players enrolled, not the same thing, I will acknowledge my assertion is incorrect.

Given that, why did we not sign enough players to reach the ceiling? Too honorable? Not able to attract enough quality players? Did we think it unnecessary to field a complete roster? Why exactly?

GatorBen

01-11-2013, 11:41 PM

So Florida is under the limit only due to natural attrition but other programs are able to sign more than 85 over a four-year period only because of cheating and dishonorable methods. I agree with you, signing more that 21.5 players annually is not a problem.

I also live in the real world and realize that "natural attrition" might include a player is not good enough to take up a roster spot and needs to be replaced with a more capable player. I do not consider it "cheating" or unethical to tell the young man he has other financial options available to him if he wants to remain at that institution outside of participating on the football team or he is free to transfer to another school willing to provide him an athletic scholarship. Some here, apparently, disagree with this notion.

Okay, assuming your numbers of total players signed is not actually total players enrolled, not the same thing, I will acknowledge my assertion is incorrect.

Given that, why did we not sign enough players to reach the ceiling? Too honorable? Not able to attract enough quality players? Did we think it unnecessary to field a complete roster? Why exactly?

I haven't followed recruiting closely enough to know why exactly we let ourselves fall way under the scholarship limit, but we did. And it doesn't appear to be just attempting to clear spots when we have played the last few seasons well under the limit, to the point of us fielding a team with as many roster players as schools on probation do.

I know that we got under the number in part through early departures that we did not replace, a significant number of signed players who never really made it to UF, transfers that followed the coaching change, and players who got into legal trouble and "determined it was in their and the school's mutual interest" for them to transfer.

I'm not one of those who has a problem with going over 25 per year, although I do think releasing players solely to clear roster spots strikes me as distasteful even if legal. I don't feel terribly strongly about either side of the arguments in this thread, only commented to ask that you back your assertion up with facts instead of making things up on the fly.

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 11:44 PM

Well, just for kicks, lets try the last four years.

2012 - 22
2011 - 19
2010 - 27
2009 - 17

Four year total: 85

Your numbers did not sound right, so I checked the rivals site and you are correct.

I did notice however that the following is also accurate...
2013 - 26 commitments (and counting)
2012 - 22
2011 - 19
2010 - 27

Four year total: 95 (and counting)

So were are now cheaters because we are oversigning? Or are we excused because all our loses were of the "natural attrition" variety?

Also, for your argument that we did not oversign in the 2009-2012 period because we hit the 85 number exactly, did you account for the possibility we might have had some red-shirts left over from the 2008 class that would have made our cumulative number less than 85. Of course this would not account for the "natural attrition" that only Florida experiences.

But in the obvious, my statement was incorrect,

northandsouth

01-11-2013, 11:52 PM

I haven't followed recruiting closely enough to know why exactly we let ourselves fall way under the scholarship limit, but we did. And it doesn't appear to be just attempting to clear spots when we have played the last few seasons well under the limit, to the point of us fielding a team with as many roster players as schools on probation do.

I know that we got under the number in part through early departures that we did not replace, a significant number of signed players who never really made it to UF, transfers that followed the coaching change, and players who got into legal trouble and "determined it was in their and the school's mutual interest" for them to transfer.

I'm not one of those who has a problem with going over 25 per year, although I do think releasing players solely to clear roster spots strikes me as distasteful even if legal. I don't feel terribly strongly about either side of the arguments in this thread, only commented to ask that you back your assertion up with facts instead of making things up on the fly.

Agree with almost everything you stated.

Except for the distastefulness of clearing roster spots.

This is not pee-wee or Little League ball. Lessons need to be learned that sometimes you are not good enough to compete. IF a coach tells a player he will be cut from the team because he cannot contribute to the team goal and objective, but will be provided the opportunity to continue his education on non-athletic scholarship I find that more honorable than using the player for nothing more than practice fodder with the false hope of maybe one day playing. Something like what you argued is "in their and the school's best interest" to move along to something else.

My issue, and what drove me to post in this thread, is the child like notion that because someone elects to compete more aggressively within the defined rules than does your side is indicative the other side is cheating and we need to bring the other side down instead of working harder and SMARTER ourselves. I see a society writ large exhibiting that attitude and it actually angers me. Sorry. Maybe this is a Too Hot subject.

GatorBen

01-11-2013, 11:55 PM

Your numbers did not sound right, so I checked the rivals site and you are correct.

I did notice however that the following is also accurate...
2013 - 26 commitments (and counting)
2012 - 22
2011 - 19
2010 - 27

Four year total: 95 (and counting)

So were are now cheaters because we are oversigning? Or are we excused because all our loses were of the "natural attrition" variety?

Also, for your argument that we did not oversign in the 2009-2012 period because we hit the 85 number exactly, did you account for the possibility we might have had some red-shirts left over from the 2008 class that would have made our cumulative number less than 85. Of course this would not account for the "natural attrition" that only Florida experiences.

But in the obvious, my statement was incorrect,

Florida is signing a larger class this year because our small roster size is a problem. We had 73 scholarship football players in 2011 and were well under the 85 again this season. I find it a little hard to believe that we would actually be willingly playing with more than 10 fewer players than the NCAA allows because we want to have spaces available to sign.

Minister_of_Information

01-12-2013, 12:02 AM

Agree with almost everything you stated.

Except for the distastefulness of clearing roster spots.

This is not pee-wee or Little League ball. Lessons need to be learned that sometimes you are not good enough to compete. IF a coach tells a player he will be cut from the team because he cannot contribute to the team goal and objective, but will be provided the opportunity to continue his education on non-athletic scholarship I find that more honorable than using the player for nothing more than practice fodder with the false hope of maybe one day playing. Something like what you argued is "in their and the school's best interest" to move along to something else.

My issue, and what drove me to post in this thread, is the child like notion that because someone elects to compete more aggressively within the defined rules than does your side is indicative the other side is cheating and we need to bring the other side down instead of working harder and SMARTER ourselves. I see a society writ large exhibiting that attitude and it actually angers me. Sorry. Maybe this is a Too Hot subject.

We should bear in mind that we are discussing what are ostensibly amateur athletics. I do not think it is ethical for a coach to unilaterally take a player off athletic scholarship because he is not up to snuff athletically. The player makes a binding commitment and so should the institution, and the coach should have to live with his promises and assessments of player value as well. Otherwise you are allowing the program to be run like a pimp runs whores. Persuasion and honesty are of course different than unilateral action. But I guess if that was the rule we'd start hearing about Bama blanket parties or code reds and you'd be here chastising the program for lacking the sand to win at all costs.

abc1234

01-12-2013, 12:13 AM

They won't skip a beat. Not with their QB and line reasonably intact.

Er...not so much. The O Line is the thing that isn't going to be in tact. Fluker deciding to leave early (as was assumed) officially means the whole line is basically gone. Barrett Jones is a loss that's irreplaceable even if nobody else left at all, but Warmack and Fluker being gone will make it tough to compensate. It will be interesting to see how AJ performs without his guys. Every other position is fine, though Milliner and Lester being gone will sting.

northandsouth

01-12-2013, 12:27 AM

We should bear in mind that we are discussing what are ostensibly amateur athletics. I do not think it is ethical for a coach to unilaterally take a player off athletic scholarship because he is not up to snuff athletically. The player makes a binding commitment and so should the institution, and the coach should have to live with his promises and assessments of player value as well. Otherwise you are allowing the program to be run like a pimp runs whores. Persuasion and honesty are of course different than unilateral action. But I guess if that was the rule we'd start hearing about Bama blanket parties or code reds and you'd be here chastising the program for lacking the sand to win at all costs.

An athletic scholarship is a means to an end and not an end of itself. (Not to mention they are only one-year agreements for the most part.)

If a coach, at the end of the year evaluation, tells a player he lacks the skill (or attitude or desire) to compete at a level necessary to contribute to the team goals and objectives and it is time to part ways, that is life. Amateur athletics or not.

If that same coach tells that player non-athletic aid is available to continue to pay for his education how is that unethical? The player has the option to give up his sport and earn his degree (the true "ends" in the arrangement) or continue his dream at another institution while also having the opportunity to complete his degree.

Is it unethical for an institution to withdraw an academic scholarship to a student who does not demonstrate the snuff in the classroom to graduate? The school made the commitment to pay for their education if certain conditions were met? Should they be required to honor their commitment and assessment of the student's academic prowess?

If cutting a player from the football team and arranging for him to receive institutional aid to complete his education is the best argument some here offer that Saban is evil and unethical and cheats, then there are some pretty stupid posters with a lack of reasoning abilities. In my opinion of course.

For the life of me, I just do not see the problem here.

RealGatorFan

01-12-2013, 01:38 AM

Keep in mind Alabama doesn't compete for in-state players other than Auburn who is way down. Florida has to compete with the whole country. Saban doesn't really have to recruit that hard because he automatically gets most of the Top 25 Alabama studs and then get a few other 5 stars from other states. Muschamp has his work cut out for him.

Gatorrick22

01-12-2013, 02:54 AM

Your numbers did not sound right, so I checked the rivals site and you are correct.

I did notice however that the following is also accurate...
2013 - 26 commitments (and counting)
2012 - 22
2011 - 19
2010 - 27

Four year total: 95 (and counting)

So were are now cheaters because we are oversigning? Or are we excused because all our loses were of the "natural attrition" variety?

Also, for your argument that we did not oversign in the 2009-2012 period because we hit the 85 number exactly, did you account for the possibility we might have had some red-shirts left over from the 2008 class that would have made our cumulative number less than 85. Of course this would not account for the "natural attrition" that only Florida experiences.

But in the obvious, my statement was incorrect,

It's called attrition. We never over-signed, nor have we ever "grey-shirted" players like your Saban has. We also have the "legal" number of coaches, and we don't have any 'bama type "analysts" on our staff.

northandsouth

01-12-2013, 09:02 AM

It's called attrition. We never over-signed, nor have never "grey-shirted" players like your Saban has. We also have the "legal" number of coaches, and we don't have any 'bama type "analysts" on our staff.

Oh please.

No the crutch is "attrition." Well, part of attrition is telling a player who lacks the talent or commitment or attitude or proclivity to follow the law he should pursue another option.

And are you really going to fall back on the horrible "grey shirt" canard? So now it is evil to tell a player in Year 1 he needs to delay his enrollment by four months because there is not enough room in the current class. You do realize this player will then count in the next class, thus reducing the number of slots in Year 2. And tell me how again this hurts the actual player. No one is forcing him to delay his enrollment. Player knows up front his situation, so no ethics are violated.

Are you the rules expert on number of coaches too. You know for a fact the "analyst" at Alabama are actual coaches? Does Florida employ any analyst? Or "just the right number?"

Saban is driving to excel. A lot of butt-hurt here in that a program (and people) you sense inferior to your superiority breeding has out-worked you, is smarter at the game than you, and is further distancing itself historically from you. That is what I detect. And the hurt you feel is easy to detect. Easier to knock the other guy down a peg than work harder and smarter. I guarantee you the actual staff does not share your flawed opinion.

And if we sign everyone just currently committed, we will have signed well over 85 over the last four years. That is the definition of oversigning standard you seem to what to hold Saban against. I guess his program is not allowed the benefit of attrition however.

Gatorrick22

01-12-2013, 09:06 AM

Oh please.

No the crutch is "attrition." Well, part of attrition is telling a player who lacks the talent or commitment or attitude or proclivity to follow the law he should pursue another option.

And are you really going to fall back on the horrible "grey shirt" canard? So now it is evil to tell a player in Year 1 he needs to delay his enrollment by four months because there is not enough room in the current class. You do realize this player will then count in the next class, thus reducing the number of slots in Year 2. And tell me how again this hurts the actual player. No one is forcing him to delay his enrollment. Player knows up front his situation, so no ethics are violated.

Are you the rules expert on number of coaches too. You know for a fact the "analyst" at Alabama are actual coaches? Does Florida employ any analyst? Or "just the right number?"

Saban is driving to excel. A lot of butt-hurt here in that a program (and people) you sense inferior to your superiority breeding has out-worked you, is smarter at the game than you, and is further distancing itself historically from you. That is what I detect. And the hurt you feel is easy to detect. Easier to knock the other guy down a peg than work harder and smarter. I guarantee you the actual staff does not share your flawed opinion.

And if we sign everyone just currently committed, we will have signed well over 85 over the last four years. That is the definition of oversigning standard you seem to what to hold Saban against. I guess his program is not allowed the benefit of attrition however.

We don't grey-shirt signees, you do. You do it only because you over sign recruits.

dawny

01-12-2013, 09:14 AM

WE have had our oiline for a while, Bama just reloads and kicks arss, they have pride in mauling their opponents, we need to get that same attitude,dont blame Bama, we should learn from them,watch a Champion and we will one day be a Champion again.

DuPontGator

01-12-2013, 10:24 AM

candymanfromgc

01-12-2013, 11:03 AM

Bama and Saban suck. Auburn is barely even competition for recruits anymore. Best situation for the SEC is for Auburn to at least be competitive in the State of the bummers.

SECund2nun

01-12-2013, 11:53 AM

I don't see what the issue is with pushing players out. It is a huge advantage. Muschamp does it. This means being honest with them and telling
them they won't get playing time and offer them a transfer to another school where they continue to get a full scholarship. It's a win win bc they still
get everything free, they have a much better shot at playing time at the new school, the team gets a huge advantage in weeding out some of the unproductive
players and replacing them with new recruits who have a shot at being productive, and they get to pick almost any school they want as long as we dont
play them- but even some schools we play they can transfer to.

Im not for forcing transfers or releases unless the player is being disrupting and has a terrible work ethic in addition to being unproductive. In the case where a player is a
good team player and a hard worker but a unproductive player like Clay Burton I would not force them a transfer or release. I'd be honest with them about playing time,
If they dont wanna transfer after that its fine if they stay. Once you tell them that playing time is not there many will leave voluntarily.

tommyuf21

01-12-2013, 01:46 PM

Im not for forcing transfers or releases unless the player is being disrupting and has a terrible work ethic in addition to being unproductive. In the case where a player is a
good team player and a hard worker but a unproductive player like Clay Burton I would not force them a transfer or release. I'd be honest with them about playing time,
If they dont wanna transfer after that its fine if they stay. Once you tell them that playing time is not there many will leave voluntarily.

There is nothing wrong with what you cite.

I have a problem with oversigning, if the goal is to deny players to your rivals. Many times the player you're taking from them (by oversigning) is not someone you think will cut it at your program. However, since you know you can part ways with them when its convenient for you, you will have no negative consequence for your "mistake."

While Bryant's strategy wasn't against the rules, it was unethical and unfair to the athletes that he signed just to keep off the field. I'm sure those recruits were lied to when they were told that they would get opportunity, when that opportunity was not really there.

Of course, a smart rival coach will find opportunity to negatively recruit against these tactics. I would hope that Muschamp and his staff are telling some kids that Bama is only recruiting them to keep them from their rivals and they may or may not get a legitimate chance to play.

gatordavisl

01-12-2013, 02:32 PM

Is it unethical for an institution to withdraw an academic scholarship to a student who does not demonstrate the snuff in the classroom to graduate? The school made the commitment to pay for their education if certain conditions were met? Should they be required to honor their commitment and assessment of the student's academic prowess? I do not think this is a valid comparison. Do you possess knowledge that institutions over-sign students to academic programs? There is a great deal of competition in academia, but I have not heard of programs offering more scholarships than they posess. I believe those in the academy avoid such ethical issues, particularly considering that which tommy noted:
it was unethical and unfair to the athletes that he signed just to keep off the field. I'm sure those recruits were lied to when they were told that they would get opportunity, when that opportunity was not really there. I don't doubt it happens in academia, but would be interested to know if you could site such instances. Those who truly care about education tend to care about the students and their pathways to success.