The Sandy Hook "conspiracy" and what they base it on

[AmericaFirst]

I decided to watch a few of those videos and see what they're basing this conspiracy theory on and the video below was a bit intriguing. I guess it's possible that it's an older picture or possibly altered with photoshop but here it is below. The girl that wasn't in any of the classroom pictures is wearing the same dress in the picture with Obama as she did in the family portrait. Only thing I'll say is the dad's reaction is really creepy during his TV air-time. Is he laughing before going on the air? Really? And suddenly feels the need to act distraught in front of the cameras after walking up to the microphone? Forget the picture, his reaction is disturbing whether it actually happened or not. It just looks totally fake.


I really can't tell if the picture of the girl has been altered or not. Either way, a bit strange that whoever this girl is, be it Emilie (which would prove the conspiracy correct) or her younger sister, is wearing the exact same dress as in the family portrait.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHv_RhVgfUQ

[PIMking]

I don't know what to believe I just know I dont trust our government at all no matter who is in office.

[Spurffelbow833]

How is it that there were no surviving wounded? Nobody who got hit survived. That would be extremely hard to pull off, even with multiple shooters.

[ChartsandGrafs]

How is it that there were no surviving wounded? Nobody who got hit survived. That would be extremely hard to pull off, even with multiple shooters.

Weren't they all shot multiple times, professional hit style?

[JohnC1908]

I watched the video. I'm confused on this. The conspiracy is these kids were shot by hit men or there was no shooting at all?

[bluelang]

This is really, really, really insulting to the families and victims. Please stop immediately.

[ChartsandGrafs]

If ever there was an actor on the set there at Sandy Hook, it would be Eugene Rosen.

That guy hamming it for the television cameras isn't very convincing at all.

[ChartsandGrafs]

This is really, really, really insulting to the families and victims. Please stop immediately.

How do you know?

[gs_gator]

so this is a thing? fark it, why not...

and the reasoning behind it is that this will allow the current gov to limit semi-auto sales, mag size and once and for all force all gun owners to reg their weapons?

the only thing missing is the profit motive angle...who benefits? where does a money trail lead...

this time around im not being an ass...i stand firmly with coco, charts and the others regarding false flag ops in at least theory but with this i dont see the same signs or reasoning like the tonkin gulf or 9/11.

[Spurffelbow833]

This is really, really, really insulting to the families and victims. Please stop immediately.

Please start your own thread or stay out of threads that offend you.

[JohnC1908]

Can you guys give me a synopsis on what you think happened that morning?

[Spurffelbow833]

http://news.yahoo.com/public-university-professors-join-ranks-sandy-hook-conspiracy-075826752.html

Here's another article about Tracy and another professor from Minnesota-Duluth named James Fetzer. IMO, don't put stock in anything Fetzer says. He did more to derail 9/11 truth than to promote it.

[ChartsandGrafs]

the only thing missing is the profit motive angle...who benefits? where does a money trail lead...

I'm not sure profit would be the primary concern here. If this was a false flag operation, it wasn't carried out to start a war or expand the size of government.

Based on the media's immediate reaction and the almost synchronized narrative they started pushing out, this was all about gun control and citizen disarmament.

Propaganda 101:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TdgAgN4ys0

[Spurffelbow833]

If this was a false flag operation, it wasn't carried out to start a war or expand the size of government.

Increasing the police presence in schools is expanding the size of government.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Increasing the police presence in schools is expanding the size of government.

Do you figure this was the goal?

[bluelang]

Please start your own thread or stay out of threads that offend you.

No thanks. I'll stick around and try to promote common sense and empathetic behavior toward people who have suffered horrible losses instead.

Even here, on the internet.

[Spurffelbow833]

Do you figure this was the goal?

If this were a staged event, I believe it would have three goals:

1. Weaken gun rights
2. Increase police presence in the environment of children
3. Increase the demand for psychiatric services/promote the sentiment that more people need to be on mind-numbing drugs

As to whether it actually was staged, I don't know. The pure efficiency of the carnage is certainly suspicious, but with 300 million increasingly obtuse and objectionable individuals comprising this particular state, you can't rule out the possibility that, in this case at least, someone incapable of being reasoned with exploded.

[AmericaFirst]

If ever there was an actor on the set there at Sandy Hook, it would be Eugene Rosen.

That guy hamming it for the television cameras isn't very convincing at all.



I think the dad's reaction is the thing that lends most to believe the conspiracy. He's laughing before he goes up to the microphone and then suddenly feels the needs to put-on as if he's distraught? That was horrible. So, whether it happened or not, his reaction is disturbing beyond words because it looks totally fake. Horrible acting.

[bluelang]

http://metabunk.org/threads/1054-Debunked-Emily-Parker-Still-Alive-after-Sandy-Hook?

[ChartsandGrafs]

If this were a staged event, I believe it would have three goals:

1. Weaken gun rights
2. Increase police presence in the environment of children
3. Increase the demand for psychiatric services/promote the sentiment that more people need to be on mind-numbing drugs

As to whether it actually was staged, I don't know. The pure efficiency of the carnage is certainly suspicious, but with 300 million increasingly obtuse and objectionable individuals comprising this particular state, you can't rule out the possibility that, in this case at least, someone incapable of being reasoned with exploded.

Sounds reasonable to me. Go after the guns while turning public schools into armed compounds. It's a great way to get kids accustomed to the police state and big brother. You've got to get them while they're young.

http://www.fourwinds10.net/resources/uploads/images/Travel%20School%20Prison.jpg

[AmericaFirst]

http://metabunk.org/threads/1054-Debunked-Emily-Parker-Still-Alive-after-Sandy-Hook?



Two thoughts:


1. Pretty strange to release a picture to the media of the entire family and then dress your middle daughter in the same dress of her dead sister for the Obama photo-op.

2. The dad's reaction is still extremely creepy whether it happened or not. The man is laughing while walking up to the podium and then suddenly feels the need to change emotions for the camera to a distraught father. Very strange. His emotions appear to be that of an actor.



Either way, I think there's more to this than we know. Every family that has been interviewed on national TV are huge gun-control advocates to the point where a few believe guns, all guns, should be taken away. I've yet to see one family member say the reasonable thing and that's the fact that we need to make sure guns don't get in the hands of the mentally-unstable. Taking from law-abiding citizens is not the way to handle it, period.

[g8trjax]

If this were a staged event, I believe it would have three goals:

1. Weaken gun rights
2. Increase police presence in the environment of children
3. Increase the demand for psychiatric services/promote the sentiment that more people need to be on mind-numbing drugs

As to whether it actually was staged, I don't know. The pure efficiency of the carnage is certainly suspicious, but with 300 million increasingly obtuse and objectionable individuals comprising this particular state, you can't rule out the possibility that, in this case at least, someone incapable of being reasoned with exploded.

You've nailed this one. Google 'increased police presence at schools'

[DSRrg]

The dads reaction is why I think something is up. I have a girl around that age and there would be no circumstance that I would do a press conference much less laugh and joke around right before I started to speak. It's almost like a joke.

[wgbgator]

The dads reaction is why I think something is up. I have a girl around that age and there would be no circumstance that I would do a press conference much less laugh and joke around right before I started to speak. It's almost like a joke.

But an actor paid to pretend to be greiving would? Must not be a method actor then. Stella Adler would be furious.

[108]

ugh, if only 9/11 happened on a Democrats watch :cry:

[WESGATORS]

http://metabunk.org/threads/1054-Debunked-Emily-Parker-Still-Alive-after-Sandy-Hook?

Thanks for posting this.

Personally, I think its healthy for people to be skeptical, and its even healthier if the false ideas can be reasonably addressed to help alleviate the skepticism.

As for the behavior of the man in the press conference, when tragedy strikes you, you have no idea how your emotions will be expressed. There could have been the slightest of distractions that led to a grin on his face, and when tragedy hits you, distractions can be like a drug that allow you to temporarily not think about things in what may otherwise be a normal perspective or level of priority.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[AmericaFirst]

Thanks for posting this.

Personally, I think its healthy for people to be skeptical, and its even healthier if the false ideas can be reasonably addressed to help alleviate the skepticism.

As for the behavior of the man in the press conference, when tragedy strikes you, you have no idea how your emotions will be expressed. There could have been the slightest of distractions that led to a grin on his face, and when tragedy hits you, distractions can be like a drug that allow you to temporarily not think about things in what may otherwise be a normal perspective or level of priority.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS



The fact that he's laughing is strange but the fact that he changes emotions for the cameras when stepping up to the microphone is even stranger. I wouldn't have thought as much about it had he not totally changed emotions in a split second but that was just weird. It seemed totally fake as if he was a bad actor with no prior training. Creepy.

[cocodrilo]

Maybe he was medicated, which could have something to do with it.

[wgbgator]

The fact that he's laughing is strange but the fact that he changes emotions for the cameras when stepping up to the microphone is even stranger. I wouldn't have thought as much about it had he not totally changed emotions in a split second but that was just weird. It seemed totally fake as if he was a bad actor with no prior training. Creepy.

Or just a typical human, aware of social expectations in a different situation. I would imagine that in a lockerroom athletes are cutting up and laughing for a bit before a big game or in the midst of a terrible season, then they get their "game face" on. No one thinks that's creepy or a conspiracy.

[DSRrg]

Or just a typical human, aware of social expectations in a different situation. I would imagine that in a lockerroom athletes are cutting up and laughing for a bit before a big game or in the midst of a terrible season, then they get their "game face" on. No one thinks that's creepy or a conspiracy.

Athletes who are having a terrible season cracking jokes compared to a family whose 6 year old was gunned down by a lunatic....

Yeah, sounds like they have a lot in common.....

[wgbgator]

Athletes who are having a terrible season cracking jokes compared to a family whose 6 year old was gunned down by a lunatic....

Yeah, sounds like they have a lot in common.....

They do, they are all people who are aware of the social expectations in given situations.

[madgator]

They do, they are all people who are aware of the social expectations in given situations.

I don't think that a father who just lost a child in such a devastating manner would be very aware of "social expectations."

typically, people going through such traumatic events become emotionally detached to such things during a severe grieving process.

[wgbgator]

I don't think that a father who just lost a child in such a devastating manner would be very aware of "social expectations."

typically, people going through such traumatic events become emotionally detached to such things during a severe grieving process.

What are you basing these assertions on?

[JohnC1908]

I'll ask again. What do you guys think happened that morning?

[madgator]

What are you basing these assertions on?



this question coming from the person who compared losing a child to losing a football game

honestly, you are coming across as knowing absolutely nothing about grief/depression and it's processes.


anyone who has taken even a psych 101 class knows that isolation/detachment is a step in the process.

now considering the fact that this incident was extremely high profile and the timing was during the holiday season, I would expect the grieving process to more than likely be elongated.

mind you, the grieving process is individual and everyone is different. But I certainly wouldn't be callous as to minimize the experience to compare it to losing a football game.

Unless that individual (the interviewer) has another set of emotional detachment disorders. Basically, that mans actions are not typical

[wgbgator]

this question coming from the person who compared losing a child to losing a football game

I just said people conform their behavior to social expectations, and gave an example. I don't think there was a direct or even impied equivalence of situations. So, I ask again, upon what are you basing your expectation for behavior?

[WESGATORS]

Torrey Smith understands what wgb is saying.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[Spurffelbow833]

I'll ask again. What do you guys think happened that morning?

JohnC, I don't know. The only ones who know for sure are either dead or will take it to their graves.

[Spurffelbow833]

I just watched "grieving" dad for the first time. This is really blowing my mind.

I mean, what are the theories out there? That nobody really died, or that the people were murdered by black ops? This is a small town, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that there aren't people from the town calling bulls*** on this. These people all knew each other. Black ops couldn't just drop in and make up people who never existed without the Newtown residents knowing. If this dad is an actor, where are the parents of other kids screaming that he's a fake? And yet, he is so much a fake. The whole thing is just weird.

[madgator]

Torrey Smith understands what wgb is saying.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS



are you a parent?


is wgb?

[madgator]

I just said people conform their behavior to social expectations, and gave an example. I don't think there was a direct or even impied equivalence of situations. So, I ask again, upon what are you basing your expectation for behavior?


you gave an comparison by example which by definition is a direct or implied equivalence. That is exactly was a comparison is.


whether someone tragically and horrifically lost a child or lost a football game. People conform to societal expectations accordingly and equally.

that is what you said in your comparison

[cocodrilo]

This reminds me of the movie Village of the Damned. Something strange is going on in town and it centers on the kids, but what is it?

[WESGATORS]

are you a parent?

Yes.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[Emmitto]

Sorry to be skeptical of the skeptical, but a couple of thoughts and questions, and I'm being sincere:

A) Little kids often look strikingly similar. My buddy has three little girls that are close in age and nearly indistinguishable to non-family members and even some of his family. We call them "Cavanagail" which is Casey, Savannah, and Abigail all mashed up. Our buddy is a little upset that this is catching on, because what started as a little inside joke has now spread and lots of people do it. Point being, little girls (sisters) in pictures can easily be confused. Those look like different faces to me, but who knows.

B) So is Emily not deceased? She's walking around, now, yet listed amongst the victims? They "mistakenly" brought her to the photo op and brought her out? So one of the others was left backstage, with a handler or what? The other kids have been sacrificed and are truly gone? They managed to not only leave a survivor who isn't supposed to be here, but then trotted her out for a photo op? That would be an egregious error for such a high level operation.

C) The dad seems bizarre, no doubt. But it seems to me he's just as likely to be some schmo thrust into a spotlight at a moment of swirling emotions than anything else. He's aware of his role but doesn't go into it until he's given the "Aaand roll!"? My BIL and his wife are both ER nurses and have witnessed inexplicable (to us) behavior and reactions in moments of tragedy. I hope to never find out how I'd act, but I have this image in my head about it. But that's often just wishful thinking. If I had a nickel for every situation in which someone actually acted differently than they always thought and claimed they would then I'd upgrade to the Animal Planet package.

D) I'm open to the possibilities here. I'm just seeking a little more reasoning than I've seen so far.

[wgbgator]

you gave an comparison by example which by definition is a direct or implied equivalence. That is exactly was a comparison is.


whether someone tragically and horrifically lost a child or lost a football game. People conform to societal expectations accordingly and equally.

that is what you said in your comparison

No, I just said that people conform to societal expectations in any given situation, not that all situations are the same. I mean, did I really have to qualify my statement by explaining that attending a funeral is different from playing a football game? Because thats something anyone knows. Or did you just want to avoid answering my question?

[madgator]

No, I just said that people conform to societal expectations in any given situation, not that all situations are the same. I mean, did I really have to qualify my statement by explaining that attending a funeral is different from playing a football game? Because thats something anyone knows. Or did you just want to avoid answering my question?

I answered the question.....psych 101. Also took a bunch of other psych classes at UF. Does someone have to be a licensed psychiatrist to be able to parrot what the clinically accepted grief/depression symptoms are?

would I be qualified if I was a clinically depressed mental patient? If I had first hand experience with a comparable tragedy?

I really don't understand why you are asking me to qualify myself.....

to the other point

in your comparison of situations you said that regardless of what the situation is, that people will conform to societal expectations.

we agree that you said this. But that's not the relevant point.

By saying that, you are basically saying that the "situation" plays no role in the response. That societal expectations of the behavior dictates what the behavior is. Not the persons actual emotions or state of mind.

so no, you didn't have to qualify the difference because you were not contrasting. You were comparing.


Do I have to be an english professor to rightfully comment on the distinction between compare and contrast?

[wgbgator]

I answered the question.....psych 101. Also took a bunch of other psych classes at UF. Does someone have to be a licensed psychiatrist to be able to parrot what the clinically accepted grief/depression symptoms are?

would I be qualified if I was a clinically depressed mental patient? If I had first hand experience with a comparable tradegy?

I really don't understand why you are asking me to qualify myself.....

to the other point

in your comparison of situations you said that regardless of what the situation is, that people will conform to societal expectations.

Thus, you are basically saying that the "situation" plays no role in the response. That societal expectations of the behavior dictates what the behavior is. Not the persons actual emotions or state of mind.

so no, you didn't have to qualify the difference because you were not contrasting. You were comparing.

Do I have to be an english professor to rightfully comment on the distinction between compare and contrast?

But the situation dictates the appropriate behavior, so I don't follow your logic. Or you misunderstand what I said. People expect you to be sad at funerals and happy at birthday parties, whether you personally are or not. If I go from a funeral to a birthday party, I may feel sad, but when I get to the party I've gotta smile a little, or people will think something is wrong. So, the situation changed the outward behavior I must show to be on ths same page as everyone else.

[madgator]

But the situation dictates the appropriate behavior, so I don't follow your logic. Or you misunderstand what I said. People expect you to be sad at funerals and happy at birthday parties, whether you personally are or not. If I go from a funeral to a birthday party, I may feel sad, but when I get to the party I've gotta smile a little, or people will think something is wrong. So, the situation changed the outward behavior I must show to be on ths same page as everyone else.

and thats the point.


people here are talking about the father's behavior leading up to getting in front of the press.....doesn't seem like a grieving man and then SNAP! grieving.

comes off as very strange.

[wgbgator]

and thats the point.


people here are talking about the father's behavior leading up to getting in front of the press.....doesn't seem like a grieving man and then SNAP! grieving.

comes off as very strange.

Its strange that he took on a more somber tone when addressing the press and lots of people he didnt know about a sad subject? That seems normal to me. So would some degree of laughing or smiling in what you would assume to be a more private moment. And that's my point.

[madgator]

Its strange that he took on a more somber tone when addressing the press and lots of people he didnt know about a sad subject? That seems normal to me. So would some degree of laughing or smiling in what you would assume to be a more private moment. And that's my point.

did you watch the video?

[gatorev12]

and thats the point.

people here are talking about the father's behavior leading up to getting in front of the press.....doesn't seem like a grieving man and then SNAP! grieving.

comes off as very strange.

Strange it may be...but it's still ONE parent. The other 19 or so parents haven't exhibited anything other than crushing grief one would more or less expect from a parent in that situation.

If you're wanting an example of how someone can go quickly from a jovial emotion to sadness relatively quickly...consider this: a popular NCO goes down within his combat unit and a number of guys are shaken up about it. The unit itself is still in a combat zone and a firefight is still going on. The next-highest ranking NCO is expected to step in and lead and does so, getting everyone refocused and the squad out of there. On the way out, the new ranking NCO starts going up to people, cracking jokes, smiling, getting everyone's minds off dwelling on it. The entire time the NCO is with his unit, he manages to keep smiling and a positive attitude...but when he gets back to the base and to a private corner, he breaks down with grief that he suppressed until that point.

Bottom line: most people try and cheer others up when they're sad and it's not strange even for a person in extreme grief to find something to smile about. When reminded of the grief again, it floods back. Grief and sadness are tricky to predict and people react in all sorts of different ways to it.

[wgbgator]

did you watch the video?

It struck me as someone who was unguarded suddenly becoming self-aware. It certainly didnt look natural, I totally agree with that. Really, our reactions arent much different. Others are just giving it a level of "creepyness" and tacitly implied guilt/ulterior motive that it probably doesnt merit, that's my only objection.

This is the logic that I object to:

He's bad at faking it in a fake/contrived situation (a press conference) so therefor the whole shooting must be fake.

[oragator1]

So the government that can't do anything right, ever, can somehow manufacture all of these elaborate conspiracies, pull them off nearly flawlessly time and again, and keep them secret?
We sent the best trained people we have after Bin Laden and we only crashed a helicopter which handed top secret into to the Chinese and had Stone Cold Steve Austin tweeting about it before they even dumped the body. That's not to take away from the bravery of those who went and the operation did it's ultimate job so total props, but the lynchpin of the CT movement is based a what is clearly a fallacy, the almost superhuman precision, secrecy and capability of a government that clearly has none of those things.

[gatorev12]

are you a parent?


...a corollary to this: like all criminal acts, a conspiracy must have a motive. Let's just say the government's motive is one of the things people on here are idly speculating about (gun control, disarming citizens, police presence in schools, etc).

The conspirators (the parents in this instance) must also have a motive. Do people really believe that a parent would sacrifice one of their children for one of those causes??

Let alone 20 or so parents?

I mean, seriously, anyone sitting here thinking that needs to seek immediate psychiatric help.

[outbackjack]

Of course no parent would, let alone 20.

That's not the "conspiracy" plan that a few are suggesting.

Nevertheless, it is interesting/unusual.

I think the suggestion is a black ops team went in, did what they did, had a kid that was involved and now dead (though no one alive I think has said they recognized Adam Lanza as the shooter that day)....so they could have cased this loner genius and killed him and his mother, smashed computers, knew dad lived far away.....

Leads to a question...were the local cops the ones who found Lanza in the school, or people involved...which would be much easier to cover and exit with him.

And the main parent we see is the Robbie Parker guy, TV interviews, visits Obama.

I guess an easy solution would be to find his neighbor in Newtown and ask him how long the Parkers have lived there.

Not saying I think it's what happened, but it's just what they are saying....................... I think.

[gs_gator]

Sandy Hook fundraising relief page created 3 days before shooting, Google search results confirm

http://www.naturalnews.com/038633_Sandy_Hook_Google_search_results_December_1 1.html

[gs_gator]

BTW...

snopes is helpful regarding this matter

[cocodrilo]

So the government that can't do anything right, ever, can somehow manufacture all of these elaborate conspiracies, pull them off nearly flawlessly time and again, and keep them secret?
We sent the best trained people we have after Bin Laden and we only crashed a helicopter which handed top secret into to the Chinese and had Stone Cold Steve Austin tweeting about it before they even dumped the body. That's not to take away from the bravery of those who went and the operation did it's ultimate job so total props, but the lynchpin of the CT movement is based a what is clearly a fallacy, the almost superhuman precision, secrecy and capability of a government that clearly has none of those things.

The wrongness of your post is almost flawless.

A covert operation is never "nearly flawless." As legendary former CIA director Allen Dulles wrote in his book on the subject, something always goes wrong. But the operation still works because people don't notice what went wrong or don't realize what it is that they see. The JFK assassination was sloppy in its execution and cover-up (to cite one example of pure stupidity, a CIA agent caught breaking into a safe of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in an attempt to tamper with evidence). But the cover-up still works 50 years later.

As for being kept "secret," which major covert operations are still secret? People (specifically former CIA agents or operatives) have talked about helping to off JFK, and the evidence in the case backs them up. Moreover, a majority of Americans believe there was indeed a conspiracy. Although it's still hard, without a real investigation, to pinpoint specific agencies or individuals as to their culpability, as far as it being a government conspiracy where is the "secret"?

9/11? The evidence for government complicity is there for anyone to see if they would look and take off their tinfoil hats (i.e. stop blindly believing the official conspiracy theory). And it was pretty sloppy in various ways (e.g. the military unable to get its story straight, to the point that the 9/11 Commission, if it had any guts, would have had some big brass indicted for perjury). Again, without a real investigation we may never be able to pinpoint agencies or individuals, but there is no "secret" about government complicity. (And someday, as in the case of the JFK murder, people will talk. It's human nature.)

[AmericaFirst]

I'll ask again. What do you guys think happened that morning?



A false-flag operation of this magnitude would take planning like we haven't seen before since they would have to make it believable to the public. We've had shootings at every level of school from high school to college. The government couldn't pass any gun control legislation after those shootings. If CIA agents like those that were wanting to pose as Cuban terrorists to get us to buy-in to a war against Cuba (Operation Northwoods) are sitting around asking themselves how they can grab more power IE: gun control an elementary school shooting and coverup would absolutely do the trick. Afterall, who in their right mind would be against gun control following a shooting like that? Now they can make the NRA out to be the bad guy.

We've heard from a select-few parents that are all HUGE gun-control advocates. Some believe all guns should be taken by force. Nevermind the whole thing about needing to make sure those that are mentally-ill don't get their hands on them and taking from law-abiding citizens is complete BS.

This guy in the video reminds me of a parent like Casey Anthony issuing a statement and becoming the prime suspect because of it. Horrible acting. If you watched that video and didn't realize it was a school shooting, just a "missing person" case, you'd believe the dad was in on something. He was totally fake.

That Eugene Rosen guy? Where the kids showed up on his driveway? What a coincidence that he's a psychologist and could provide "insight" into their thinking literally 30 minutes after it happened on TV.

Did a shooting occur? Maybe it did. Do we know the whole story behind this? No, we don't. Any crime/tragedy used to further a political agenda needs to be carefully looked at and this is one of them. Now Obama is trying to pass gun legislation with an executive order. They're getting what they want IE: a power grab.

[AmericaFirst]

I just watched "grieving" dad for the first time. This is really blowing my mind.

I mean, what are the theories out there? That nobody really died, or that the people were murdered by black ops? This is a small town, and it's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that there aren't people from the town calling bulls*** on this. These people all knew each other. Black ops couldn't just drop in and make up people who never existed without the Newtown residents knowing. If this dad is an actor, where are the parents of other kids screaming that he's a fake? And yet, he is so much a fake. The whole thing is just weird.



If this was a missing person's case like we saw in the Anthony case, that dad would be the prime suspect following that statement. Laughing while walking up to the podium after his kid was murdered in an elementary school and then putting on one of the worst performances I've ever seen after stepping up to the microphone. Forget all of the other stuff in that video, his reaction is creepy beyond words. He's having to work up the tears after his kid was supposedly murdered while sitting in class. I wouldn't have thought much of it had he not suddenly changed emotions from laughing (weird itself) to that terrible "grieving" performance.



Oh, and his daughter is reportedly not in any of the class pictures either.

[ChartsandGrafs]

So the government that can't do anything right, ever, can somehow manufacture all of these elaborate conspiracies, pull them off nearly flawlessly time and again, and keep them secret?
We sent the best trained people we have after Bin Laden and we only crashed a helicopter which handed top secret into to the Chinese and had Stone Cold Steve Austin tweeting about it before they even dumped the body. That's not to take away from the bravery of those who went and the operation did it's ultimate job so total props, but the lynchpin of the CT movement is based a what is clearly a fallacy, the almost superhuman precision, secrecy and capability of a government that clearly has none of those things.

Nice straw man.

[Emmitto]

BTW...

snopes is helpful regarding this matter

Including debunking the page set up "too early" in your previous post. Or am I misreading what you're saying?

[oragator1]

If this was a missing person's case like we saw in the Anthony case, that dad would be the prime suspect following that statement. Laughing while walking up to the podium after his kid was murdered in an elementary school and then putting on one of the worst performances I've ever seen after stepping up to the microphone. Forget all of the other stuff in that video, his reaction is creepy beyond words.

Oh, and his daughter is reportedly not in any of the class pictures either.

If his daughter wasn't in the class, don't you think other parents might be a tad suspicious?
And creepy doesn't equal conspiracy, this is the part that makes it so hard to argue with CTs. Essentially they ask you to prove a negative, in this case "that guy looks creepy and acts weird" so prove that doesn't prove a conspiracy. It's a bizarre argument and not one that can ever be "won" - it's like asking to prove there isn't a God, or prove that aliens aren't here.
This is why CTs thrive and in a sense is the smarts of their creators, they don't have to be right because they can never truly be proven wrong, no matter how outlandish they are, how little evidence to support them they provide, and how long it goes without any of the mutitudes of required conspirators coming forward to admit their complicity or provide corroborating evidence.

[wgbgator]

Including debunking the page set up "too early" in your previous post. Or am I misreading what you're saying?

I think he's being tricksy. ;)

[AmericaFirst]

If his daughter wasn't in the class, don't you think other parents might be a tad suspicious?
And creepy doesn't equal conspiracy, this is the part that makes it so hard to argue with CTs. Essentially they ask you to prove a negative, in this case "that guy looks creepy and acts weird" so prove that doesn't prove a conspiracy. It's a bizarre argument and not one that can ever be "won" - it's like asking to prove there isn't a God, or prove that aliens aren't here.
This is why CTs thrive and in a sense is the smarts of their creators, they don't have to be right because they can never truly be proven wrong, no matter how outlandish they are, how little evidence to support them they provide, and how long it goes without any of the mutitudes of required conspirators coming forward to admit their complicity or provide corroborating evidence.



You're free to think that this was an actual cut-and-dry shooting if you'd like to but I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that we don't know everything.

And I think the parents we've heard from being huge gun control advocates only adds to it. Weren't there supposedly some kids that survived? Why haven't we heard from their parents? Why have we only heard from the select-few hardcore gun control advocates? If there actually were no survivors, the efficiency of an attack like that is beyond what some 20 year old kid could carry out.

The CIA were going to pose as Cuban terrorists in order to get us to buy-in to a war against Cuba. No conspiracy, fact. JFK was the president that stopped it. The CIA isn't above doing something like this if the president believes a political agenda can be achieved. It's disgusting and beyond the realm of comprehension for you and I, but government whether it's a democracy or dictatorship is evil by nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

[gatorman_07732]

I'm just shaking my head that this is a thread. I can't wrap my head around how this could be a conspiracy

[cocodrilo]

Something fishy about the medical examiner? That would be news. Remember Moe, Curly, and Larry who did the autopsy on JFK? The guy who did the autopsy on Vince Foster didn't take any x-rays because the machine "wasn't working." Ha ha ha ha. No need to borrow one or fix it or whatever, since Foster was a nobody.

Nobodies like JFK, Foster, etc. are entitled to nothing but sham autopsies at best.

[oragator1]

The wrongness of your post is almost flawless.

A covert operation is never "nearly flawless." As legendary former CIA director Allen Dulles wrote in his book on the subject, something always goes wrong. But the operation still works because people don't notice what went wrong or don't realize what it is that they see. The JFK assassination was sloppy in its execution and cover-up (to cite one example of pure stupidity, a CIA agent caught breaking into a safe of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in an attempt to tamper with evidence). But the cover-up still works 50 years later.

As for being kept "secret," which major covert operations are still secret? People (specifically former CIA agents or operatives) have talked about helping to off JFK, and the evidence in the case backs them up. Moreover, a majority of Americans believe there was indeed a conspiracy. Although it's still hard, without a real investigation, to pinpoint specific agencies or individuals as to their culpability, as far as it being a government conspiracy where is the "secret"?

9/11? The evidence for government complicity is there for anyone to see if they would look and take off their tinfoil hats (i.e. stop blindly believing the official conspiracy theory). And it was pretty sloppy in various ways (e.g. the military unable to get its story straight, to the point that the 9/11 Commission, if it had any guts, would have had some big brass indicted for perjury). Again, without a real investigation we may never be able to pinpoint agencies or individuals, but there is no "secret" about government complicity. (And someday, as in the case of the JFK murder, people will talk. It's human nature.)

Lol, thank you for making my point.
With regard to CIA operatives coming forward, I assume you are speaking at least in part on Hunt's deathbed confession. I don't know the veracity of it, but I do know the hypocrisy in the argument. 3 of his five immediate family members claim he wasn't lucid and was coached, two of his sons claim it to be legitimate, one of whom happens to have a radio show and would benefit. If the argument were flipped and the government was making that case, you and every other CT would be pointing to it as a flaw in their argument, however since it supports what you want it to support it is presented as unquestioned truth. Many of the people who have said they were involved contradict each other as well (David in France for example and Hunt), which would be ground zero in a counter debate if the assassination were the official line. But again, nary a whimper. And not only that, I am apparently completely wrong in your mind while you are completely right, despite this fact.

I have no problem with someone looking into official stories, the government should be questioned. What I have a problem with is presenting as fact, or even likely fact something which has questionable veracity, when that is your exact problem with the supposed holes in the other side of the debate.

[ChartsandGrafs]

I'm just shaking my head that this is a thread. I can't wrap my head around how this could be a conspiracy

It's a shame, man. You've been trained to confine your own thinking to a narrowly-defined box. The psychopaths who run this country don't want you thinking outside of it.

Break free.

[oragator1]

You're free to think that this was an actual cut-and-dry shooting if you'd like to but I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that we don't know everything.

And I think the parents we've heard from being huge gun control advocates only adds to it. Weren't there supposedly some kids that survived? Why haven't we heard from their parents? Why have we only heard from the select-few hardcore gun control advocates? If there actually were no survivors, the efficiency of an attack like that is beyond what some 20 year old kid could carry out.

The CIA were going to pose as Cuban terrorists in order to get us to buy-in to a war against Cuba. No conspiracy, fact. JFK was the president that stopped it. The CIA isn't above doing something like this if the president believes a political agenda can be achieved. It's disgusting and beyond the realm of comprehension for you and I, but government whether it's a democracy or dictatorship is evil by nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Operation Northwoods never came to fruition and was a despicable plan.
But to your point on gun control I would make two points.
First, a parent who just lost a kid in a shooting is almost certainly going to be blaming guns at least in part, there shouldn't be any surprise there. But second, even if the media was taking a liberal position and seeking out the parents who wanted gun control for their own agendas, that proves that they have agendas, not that the government or some other entity murdered 20 innocent children.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And to claim that the police, ME, media, United Way, maybe the CIA or some other government agency and others were involved in a massive conspiracy to murder innocent school kids to further an agenda is an extraordinary claim.

[bluelang]

You're free to think that this was an actual cut-and-dry shooting if you'd like to but I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that we don't know everything.

Us "not knowing everything" doesn't make it a conspiracy. Accepting informational ambiguity and hysteresis is part of being a functioning adult.

[AmericaFirst]

Us "not knowing everything" doesn't make it a conspiracy. Accepting informational ambiguity and hysteresis is part of being a functioning adult.



You're free to believe that dad's grief was genuine. Personally, I believe it's about as genuine as Casey Anthony's.

[gatorev12]

Of course no parent would, let alone 20.

That's not the "conspiracy" plan that a few are suggesting.

Nevertheless, it is interesting/unusual.

Well, you've answered your own question then.

This thread was started on the premise that this dad's reaction was "unusual"--with many thinking it "fake" or "staged." If that were true, then obviously, the parent had something to do with the conspiracy--and leads to the above questions, which you obviously agree are completely unrealistic.

As for the rest--if the parent had nothing to do with the conspiracy, than all the video demonstrates is a person acting oddly in a tragic situation. There is no factual basis for concluding there's a larger conspiracy based on that one oddity.

I think the suggestion is a black ops team went in, did what they did, had a kid that was involved and now dead (though no one alive I think has said they recognized Adam Lanza as the shooter that day)....so they could have cased this loner genius and killed him and his mother, smashed computers, knew dad lived far away.....

Leads to a question...were the local cops the ones who found Lanza in the school, or people involved...which would be much easier to cover and exit with him.

So...I'm not following: the suggestion is a team of government operatives carried out the shooting?

--and, where this line of thinking gets smashed on the cold, hard facts of reality: local cops were the ones who arrived at the scene and initiated the investigation. Unlike 9-11 or Waco, this was a local crime and local/state law enforcement officers have had jurisdiction. I haven't seen anything where the feds have stepped in to overtake the investigation.

Local cops are almost always people from the local community and people who've had an established presence in the area. Again, if one were to accept this theory, you're accepting that local cops and state law enforcement officers (everyday, common citizens and neighbors) were "in" on the conspiracy and played an active role. Not some super-secret, trained government agent...local cops from a small community. Now, I'm no big fan of local cops or anything--but I highly doubt you'd get a group of local law enforcement officers willing to participate in a mass murder like this.

As above, that's about as realistic as implying 20 parents would sacrifice their children and keep silent about it.

Not saying I think it's what happened, but it's just what they are saying....................... I think.


The conspiracy theorist's "Nuremberg defense": "not saying, just saying." With all due respect, such line of thinking is no less harmful a rationalization than "I was just following orders."

In saying that, I really don't know if you were speculating on what conspiracy theorists' believe or if that's your own personal beliefs, but just pointing out engaging in such ideal speculation is, in and of itself, a potentially toxic rationalization.

[outbackjack]

Has anyone alive identified Adam Lanza as the shooter, saw him in the school?

Several people are alive that were in the school that day.

Is there video at the front doors/front hall of the school?

[ChartsandGrafs]

Us "not knowing everything" doesn't make it a conspiracy.

It also doesn't make the official story automatically correct.

[gatorev12]

Has anyone alive identified Adam Lanza as the shooter, saw him in the school?

Several people are alive that were in the school that day.

Is there video at the front doors/front hall of the school?

Good questions here from someone who's probably never been shot at.

Since you like asking questions, I have one for you: say you were in a situation where there's a shooter firing at everyone in sight. Is your first priority going to be to get a perfect visual of the guy--or to find the first cover you can find where you're shielded and, by definition, aren't visible/can't see the shooter (and their gun)?

[gatorev12]

You're free to believe that dad's grief was genuine. Personally, I believe it's about as genuine as Casey Anthony's.

See an earlier question: if the father's grief was staged, then he was part of the conspiracy.

Which, by definition, means he sacrificed his child to the Iluminatti or the Stone Cutters or the vampire elite (or whichever imaginary super-villain society you want to create). And, by definition, that means all the other 19 or so parents were also "in" on the conspiracy and sacrificed their children too, but were more convincing at their acting.

And, again, if you're seriously trying to say that you can find a group of 20 parents who would sacrifice their children without any remorse for a cause as flimsy as gun control...well, what's just say you have serious issues.

[cocodrilo]

Lol, thank you for making my point.
With regard to CIA operatives coming forward, I assume you are speaking at least in part on Hunt's deathbed confession.

His confession rings true based on the evidence that the CIA was involved, as he said it was. He himself or his doppelganger was photographed in Dealey Plaza shortly after the shooting (no, not as one of the three tramps, but crossing Elm Street in a trench coat and felt hat like a secret agent straight out of central casting). The CIA's Rip Robertson was photographed on the corner of Main and Houston (safely out of the kill zone) as JFK rode by. A prime suspect is the CIA's David Morales (whom Hunt also named), who drunkenly ranted to friends about JFK and then said, "We took care of that son of a bitch, didn't we?" Morales died of a "heart attack" before he could be questioned by the HSCA. Another prime suspect is the CIA's David Atlee Phillips, who according to his brother admitted on his deathbed that he was in Dallas that day. There is CIA operative John Martino, whose wife says he told her that JFK was going to be killed when he went to Dallas. Every one of these people could be lying, but if so they were all telling the truth at the same time, i.e. the CIA was involved.

[AmericaFirst]

See an earlier question: if the father's grief was staged, then he was part of the conspiracy.

Which, by definition, means he sacrificed his child to the Iluminatti or the Stone Cutters or the vampire elite (or whichever imaginary super-villain society you want to create). And, by definition, that means all the other 19 or so parents were also "in" on the conspiracy and sacrificed their children too, but were more convincing at their acting.

And, again, if you're seriously trying to say that you can find a group of 20 parents who would sacrifice their children without any remorse for a cause as flimsy as gun control...well, what's just say you have serious issues.



Or the entire shooting was staged, the kids are all alive, and none of it actually happened. In addition to the dad, there's a bunch of others with weird reactions as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_b9hh2lp3I

[Emmitto]

I think he's being tricksy. ;)

Ah, got me then. Good one. Got my Indignancy Motor all cranked up for nothing!

[oragator1]

His confession rings true based on the evidence that the CIA was involved, as he said it was. He himself or his doppelganger was photographed in Dealey Plaza shortly after the shooting (no, not as one of the three tramps, but crossing Elm Street in a trench coat and felt hat like a secret agent straight out of central casting). The CIA's Rip Robertson was photographed on the corner of Main and Houston (safely out of the kill zone) as JFK rode by. A prime suspect is the CIA's David Morales (whom Hunt also named), who drunkenly ranted to friends about JFK and then said, "We took care of that son of a bitch, didn't we?" Morales died of a "heart attack" before he could be questioned by the HSCA. Another prime suspect is the CIA's David Atlee Phillips, who according to his brother admitted on his deathbed that he was in Dallas that day. There is CIA operative John Martino, whose wife says he told her that JFK was going to be killed when he went to Dallas. Every one of these people could be lying, but if so they were all telling the truth at the same time, i.e. the CIA was involved.

I don't know Martino's story so I cant comment on it. But if you hear what Phillips told the commission as well as what Morales actually said, I always got the vibe that they assumed the agency did it, with neither one of them being involved and just assuming it was other elements. They never said "here is how we did it", or "X pulled the trigger, this is who ordered it, here is the evidence, here is how we covered it up after the fact". Phillips went so far as to sue for libel at one point against someone who claimed he was involved (and won), which would have opened him up to all sorts of expository questioning. He also donated the money to a fund for other clandestine agents wrongfully accused, so hardly the public actions someone who wants the whole thing kept quiet would take. And telling the commission you believe it was an agency conspiracy as Phillips did is hardly a way to lower the heat on yourself either.
But again, look up the story of David and Sarti and their supposed involvement on behalf of the mob - it has as much corroboration or more, and yet just like your theory there isn't any real evidence, just hearsay and a couple of witnesses who can't provide anything either other than a couple of interpretive photos from Dallas that day (sound familiar?). The "official" version has far more attached evidence and the two conspiracies directly contradict each other, yet you choose one of the conspiracies to the exclusion of other explanations.
And for the record, I have never said a conspiracy that day isn't possible, I would be willing to change my mind if real evidence surfaced, it's just that the CT evidence is outnumbered by factual supportive evidence many times over. Just like how I approach most issues I try to be factual, and rationally to me distrust in government isn't enough of a reason to believe something, especially when it has limited support around it relative to the alternative.

[bluelang]

The Dad's grief is completely irrelevant. He could have had a hot dog and sparkler party because his daughter died. It has no bearing at all on the facts. None. It is not evidence for or against reality.

[AmericaFirst]

The Dad's grief is completely irrelevant. He could have had a hot dog and sparkler party because his daughter died. It has no bearing at all on the facts. None. It is not evidence for or against reality.



I disagree completely. Statements like his that appear to be forced are what causes parents to become prime suspects when their kid goes "missing."

[bluelang]

I disagree completely. Statements like his that appear to be forced are what causes parents to become prime suspects when their kid goes "missing."

This isn't a missing kid case. She's dead. Some asshole shot her.

And now a bunch of other assholes on the internet are dishonoring her memory by pretending it didn't happen.

[AmericaFirst]

This isn't a missing kid case. She's dead. Some asshole shot her.

And now a bunch of other assholes on the internet are dishonoring her memory by pretending it didn't happen.



We'll disagree on this one. You know damn well that dad's reaction is strange beyond words and is totally forcing himself to be distraught after SMILING for the camera.

[Spurffelbow833]

This isn't a missing kid case. She's dead. Some asshole shot her.

And now a bunch of other assholes on the internet are dishonoring her memory by pretending it didn't happen.

The "assholes" you speak of aren't pretending anything. They are using critical thinking skills to question what they see and hear. The worst way to dishonor someone's memory would be to care no more than to buy into something that doesn't ring true to you so you can turn to your own affairs without giving it another thought.

If the way these people are behaving looks OK to you, fine. Doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

[cocodrilo]

I have never said a conspiracy that day isn't possible, I would be willing to change my mind if real evidence surfaced, it's just that the CT evidence is outnumbered by factual supportive evidence many times over. Just like how I approach most issues I try to be factual, and rationally to me distrust in government isn't enough of a reason to believe something, especially when it has limited support around it relative to the alternative.

Let's assume that everyone who has talked was lying. Let's assume no one has talked at all. The evidence for conspiracy is overwhelming, and the argument that the official story is a stronger case is ridiculous. The single bullet theory defies the laws of physics, and I don't know how you figure that Oswald managed to shoot JFK from in front. But this thread isn't about JFK, and I've wasted enough time arguing with a supporter of the lone-nut scenario. Now if you will excuse me I have to go argue with a young-Earth creationist.

[ChartsandGrafs]

The government has the ability to not only conduct an investigation, but to also set and control the parameters of an investigation. In other words, they can investigate every angle of an event or no angle at all. They can also control the evidence, and limit what they allow the public to see. If that's not enough, the government also possesses the legal authority to withhold evidence and information from the public, press, and courts under state secrets privileges. All they have to do is say, "this is a matter of national security", and no court in the land will override them. This immense power basically constitutes the ability of government to shape reality and manage perception of any event.

According to the conspiracy denying government apologists, we should just trust that the government is telling the truth. And why? Just because. It doesn't matter that our government is obviously corrupt. It doesn't matter that our government lies. It doesn't matter that our government gets caught in criminal scandals. None of that matters to them. What matters is not questioning our government overlords. These people worship government like a religion. That's why they struggle to construct any rational counterarguments.

Don't fall for any of their antics.

[Spurffelbow833]

What matters is not questioning our government overlords. These people worship government like a religion.

Religion might be the opiate of the people, but government is the meth.

[outbackjack]

Good questions here from someone who's probably never been shot at.

Since you like asking questions, I have one for you: say you were in a situation where there's a shooter firing at everyone in sight. Is your first priority going to be to get a perfect visual of the guy--or to find the first cover you can find where you're shielded and, by definition, aren't visible/can't see the shooter (and their gun)?

Um, actually, it is EXACTLY the opposite. I've never been shot at, but I have had a gun pulled at a group I was in, while camping outside awaiting Braves playoff tickets in 1995 at Fulton County Stadium. None of us knew the guy, he was arrested on the spot, he was clearly drunk and disturbed.

No shots were fired, and despite this being nearly 20 years ago, i remember EVERY SINGLE DETAIL of the guys face, and will til the day I die.

No, getting a good look is not a priority, but at least in my case it's frozen in my brain, whether I wanted to or not.

[gregthegator]

Look ya'll...it all started when the beloved government of ours gave blankets infested w/smallpox to THE indians...and it ain't stopped...sorry if THAT news to some of you...it is what it is. :angry:

[Spurffelbow833]

Look ya'll...it all started when the beloved government of ours gave blankets infested w/smallpox to THE indians...and it ain't stopped...sorry if THAT news to some of you...it is what it is. :angry:

They apologized. It's all good.

[oragator1]

Let's assume that everyone who has talked was lying. Let's assume no one has talked at all. The evidence for conspiracy is overwhelming, and the argument that the official story is a stronger case is ridiculous. The single bullet theory defies the laws of physics, and I don't know how you figure that Oswald managed to shoot JFK from in front. But this thread isn't about JFK, and I've wasted enough time arguing with a supporter of the lone-nut scenario. Now if you will excuse me I have to go argue with a young-Earth creationist.

Good luck. But hey keep your chin up it's only been 50 years, I am sure you will be proven right soon ;)

[gatorev12]

Um, actually, it is EXACTLY the opposite. I've never been shot at, but I have had a gun pulled at a group I was in, while camping outside awaiting Braves playoff tickets in 1995 at Fulton County Stadium. None of us knew the guy, he was arrested on the spot, he was clearly drunk and disturbed.

No shots were fired, and despite this being nearly 20 years ago, i remember EVERY SINGLE DETAIL of the guys face, and will til the day I die.

No, getting a good look is not a priority, but at least in my case it's frozen in my brain, whether I wanted to or not.

So what you're saying is: no--you've never actually been in a situation where bullets were flying..and moreover, you weren't between the ages of 6-8 when this was happening either.

Correct?

[gatorev12]

The "assholes" you speak of aren't pretending anything. They are using critical thinking skills to question what they see and hear. The worst way to dishonor someone's memory would be to care no more than to buy into something that doesn't ring true to you so you can turn to your own affairs without giving it another thought.

If the way these people are behaving looks OK to you, fine. Doesn't mean everyone else feels the same way.

Conversely, if those "assholes" were wrong and there was absolutely no factual or substantive reason to question what they see/hear--and it was merely a reflection of their own paranoid psyche projecting fantasies into reality...then those people would, in fact, be assholes. Behaving in as childish and as disrespectful a manner as the douchebags from Westboro Baptist. In fact, I'm pretty positive their rationalizations when they go about spreading their gospel of hate is that they're using their critical thinking skills to question what they see and hear as well.

Great people, no?

[gatorev12]

The government has the ability to not only conduct an investigation, but to also set and control the parameters of an investigation. In other words, they can investigate every angle of an event or no angle at all. They can also control the evidence, and limit what they allow the public to see. If that's not enough, the government also possesses the legal authority to withhold evidence and information from the public, press, and courts under state secrets privileges. All they have to do is say, "this is a matter of national security", and no court in the land will override them. This immense power basically constitutes the ability of government to shape reality and manage perception of any event.


You'd think for a poster as wise and all-knowing as you are, you'd have the smarts to realize the difference between the national government and local law enforcement agencies (you know, the actual people who were dispatched to the scene and with jurisdiction over the incident)--and that your local town sheriff can't, in fact, claim the legal authority to hold state secrets (and moreover, no court in the land would allow him to assert such protections).

But hey, I guess we all make mistakes, eh C&G? Even the wisest, most omniscient poster on here, like yourself.

[gatorev12]

How is it that there were no surviving wounded? Nobody who got hit survived. That would be extremely hard to pull off, even with multiple shooters.

that's because all were shot between 3-11 times.

Which, you know, is usually enough to kill a grown man, let alone a 6-7 year old child.

http://www.euronews.com/2012/12/15/police-reveal-more-details-about-sandy-hook-killings/

Police now say Adam Lanza, 20, a former pupil at the school, forced his way into the building early on Friday and killed six adult women and 20 children, 12 girls and eight boys aged around six or seven. All were shot between three and 11 times. He is also suspected of killing his mother at home before going to the school.

[ChartsandGrafs]

You'd think for a poster as wise and all-knowing as you are, you'd have the smarts to realize the difference between the national government and local law enforcement agencies (you know, the actual people who were dispatched to the scene and with jurisdiction over the incident)--and that your local town sheriff can't, in fact, claim the legal authority to hold state secrets (and moreover, no court in the land would allow him to assert such protections).

But hey, I guess we all make mistakes, eh C&G? Even the wisest, most omniscient poster on here, like yourself.

LOL, nice reading comprehension. I guess you failed to notice in my post that I didn't reference Sandy Hook once, because I was speaking in general terms, about investigations with federal oversight.

But now that you mention it, is there some reason Connecticut state police couldn't be involved in a cover-up or be working with the FBI on such a cover-up? Surely you're aware that federal agents are fully involved in the case. Do you have an answer other than, "but, but, but, the police and government would never do that"?

[ChartsandGrafs]

that's because all were shot between 3-11 times.

Sounds like a professionally orchestrated hit to me.

Professionals never leave surviving witnesses, if they can help it.

[ChartsandGrafs]

So what you're saying is: no--you've never actually been in a situation where bullets were flying..and moreover, you weren't between the ages of 6-8 when this was happening either.

Correct?

That's a nice diversion and all, but it doesn't address any of his questions.

Where's the evidence supporting the official conspiracy theory?

[AmericaFirst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41_5KLhApg

[ChartsandGrafs]

Can anyone find the video of the interview with the kids who claimed they never heard any sounds of gunfire at the school?

[gregthegator]

http://news.yahoo.com/rfk-children-speak-assassination-dallas-050810379.html

like I wrote about blankets and Indians....

[kafdmd]

Can anyone find the video of the interview with the kids who claimed they never heard any sounds of gunfire at the school?
One of them:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cq9pCOBGnBQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[kafdmd]

Not Sandy Hook, but a classic video showing how the MSM is mostly fake. This is a must see by all:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jTWY14eyMFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[g8trjax]

What I found most unusual were the complete lack of cell phone videos of the scene from inside the school. Out of all those teachers and students surely someone would have shot the video that the MSM would run in a loop 24/7 showing all the confusion and carnage.

[Spurffelbow833]

What I found most unusual were the complete lack of cell phone videos of the scene from inside the school. Out of all those teachers and students surely someone would have shot the video that the MSM would run in a loop 24/7 showing all the confusion and carnage.

On 9/11, the cell phones worked too well. Here, they didn't seem to work at all. Just another rabbit hole.

You gotta give them credit for getting the nuns right, however. Scary as hell.

http://i0.wp.com/theintelhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Nuns.png?resize=588%2C350

[gatorev12]

What I found most unusual were the complete lack of cell phone videos of the scene from inside the school. Out of all those teachers and students surely someone would have shot the video that the MSM would run in a loop 24/7 showing all the confusion and carnage.

What I find most unusual (and most disturbing) is that an alleged adult would:

1.) attempt to armchair QB another adult's decision to place more of a priority on protecting children than whipping out their cameraphones and recording the incident.

2.) expect 6-9 year old children to have cell phones easily accessible to them while at elementary school--and moreover, to be placing a priority on videotaping the scene rather than, I don't know, trying to get out of there?

If this is a thread based on logic and critical thinking (unlikely), you're doing a disastrous job of applying them.

[gatorev12]

LOL, nice reading comprehension. I guess you failed to notice in my post that I didn't reference Sandy Hook once, because I was speaking in general terms, about investigations with federal oversight.


Well, I certainly never expect you to give even rudimentary specifics and, in past experiences when asked to provide concrete facts/evidence, has almost always asking too much of you since your arguments and suppositions are never based on any discernible basis in fact--just you speaking in "generalities" the entire time.

Amusingly enough, it doesn't change the fact you were completely wrong. State law enforcement agencies (Connecticut in this instance) have no legal authority to claim national security protections.

But now that you mention it, is there some reason Connecticut state police couldn't be involved in a cover-up or be working with the FBI on such a cover-up? Surely you're aware that federal agents are fully involved in the case. Do you have an answer other than, "but, but, but, the police and government would never do that"?


Well, for starters, state and local law enforcement officers are almost entirely local citizens (your neighbors, former hs classmates, etc)--who undergo minimal training for their jobs and aren't paid exceptionally great salaries. Additionally, state and local cops usually have longstanding ties to the area that can easily be traced and tracked. Not exactly ideal for covert operatives--and especially ones that are the type of cold, hardened individuals with total dedication to their cause that would be needed for such a fantastical plot.

It's easy to point the finger at a vague, shadowy boogeyman you've never seen or met (not to be confused with the boogeyman of your childhood days that you used to annoy your parents about on dark nights)---gets a lot trickier to point the finger and accuse Officer Smith down the street who graduated from high school with you of going along with a plot to kill 20 children and shoot up an elementary school. Especially if the police officers had children of their own.

Your fantasies get more and more ridiculous by the minute, but they are highly entertaining.

[Emmitto]

What I find most unusual (and most disturbing) is that an alleged adult would:

1.) attempt to armchair QB another adult's decision to place more of a priority on protecting children than whipping out their cameraphones and recording the incident.

2.) expect 6-9 year old children to have cell phones easily accessible to them while at elementary school--and moreover, to be placing a priority on videotaping the scene rather than, I don't know, trying to get out of there?

If this is a thread based on logic and critical thinking (unlikely), you're doing a disastrous job of applying them.

And if such a video existed, it would be used as "evidence" for conspiracy for the very reasons you've laid out. "What 5 year-old has a phone at school?? My kids aren't allowed phones at school!! Why would a teacher take precious time to make a recording???"

Why isn't this a conspiracy to get guns in places previously off limits? It's already underway:

http://m.toledoblade.com/Education/2013/01/12/Armed-janitor-plan-draws-mixed-reaction-from-Montpelier-parents.html

The NRA is going to pay to arm all schools!! It's a staged event to discredit gun-free zones! Gun-free zones are kill zones!! Only good guys with guns can stop bad guys with guns!!

[gatorev12]

That's a nice diversion and all, but it doesn't address any of his questions.

Where's the evidence supporting the official conspiracy theory?

For someone who was so focused on reading comprehension earlier--did you read what that poster asked?

He asked specifically why someone didn't identify Adam Lanza from the melee. I asked him, quite simply, if he'd ever been in a situation where bullets were flying--and quite clearly, no. Moreover, he wasn't a 6-9 year old child being shot at either.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/17/15969867-police-second-person-injured-in-connecticut-school-shooting-survived?lite


That's a pretty good article that details the ongoing investigation. Contrary to what some have posted, it looks like there were two adult survivors and many other witnesses. To those asking why security cameras weren't everywhere around--it's an elementary school for ****'s sake. There aren't too many elementary schools around the country with multiple cameras on campus.

Lanza bypassed security by smashing in a window and gaining entry that way--killed the principle and then went to two classrooms, killing everyone inside those classrooms--shooting everyone inside multiple times, as has also been reported.

Since this is a state police investigation and not a federal investigation, you're free to file a FOIA request and get copies of whatever evidence has been amassed up until this point and are free to get your own independent analysis done on the forensics or anything else to your heart's (and wallet's) content.

But we all know that expecting you to get off your ass and do these things will be too much of a task. You demand "evidence"--but refuse to do anything to obtain it when that is in your power. That's called "laziness"...and when you use such laziness to ask nonsensical questions about why you haven't "seen any evidence"--sorry, not going to excuse it.

[gatorev12]

And if such a video existed, it would be used as "evidence" for conspiracy for the very reasons you've laid out. "What 5 year-old has a phone at school?? My kids aren't allowed phones at school!! Why would a teacher take precious time to make a recording???"


Exactly.

The NRA is going to pay to arm all schools!! It's a staged event to discredit gun-free zones! Gun-free zones are kill zones!! Only good guys with guns can stop bad guys with guns!!


+1. You can make anything into a fantastical "conspiracy" if you want to. Most conspiracy theories that are out there are pretty fantastical, but the levels of delusion it must take to believe Sandy Hook was a conspiracy are truly unfathomable.

If the goal was to make guns less accessible, then this "plan" was a miserable failure. Gun sales have been at record levels for weeks--and good luck being able to buy any ammunition at most stores.

[g8trjax]

What I find most unusual (and most disturbing) is that an alleged adult would:

1.) attempt to armchair QB another adult's decision to place more of a priority on protecting children than whipping out their cameraphones and recording the incident.

2.) expect 6-9 year old children to have cell phones easily accessible to them while at elementary school--and moreover, to be placing a priority on videotaping the scene rather than, I don't know, trying to get out of there?

If this is a thread based on logic and critical thinking (unlikely), you're doing a disastrous job of applying them.

There are cell phone videos from EVERY tragedy these days, so logic would apply, that someone would attempt to capture this event while it was happening. I'm not really assigning any conspiracy to it necessarily, just to me, adds to the bizarre nature of the thread.

[gatorev12]

There are cell phone videos from EVERY tragedy these days, so logic would apply, that someone would attempt to capture this event while it was happening. I'm not really assigning any conspiracy to it necessarily, just to me, adds to the bizarre nature of the thread.

When you've already dug yourself into a hole, it's better to stop digging.

It's an elementary school--most students aren't going to have cell phones to begin with (even if they did, they'd be stored away somewhere) and for darn sure ANY responsible, sane, rational, logical teacher/adult will place a far higher priority on protecting children than whipping out their phone and recording it.

Whatever mental gymnastics you're applying with this line of thinking, logic sure as hell isn't to be found there.

[g8trjax]

When you've already dug yourself into a hole, it's better to stop digging.

It's an elementary school--most students aren't going to have cell phones to begin with (even if they did, they'd be stored away somewhere) and for darn sure ANY responsible, sane, rational, logical teacher/adult will place a far higher priority on protecting children than whipping out their phone and recording it.

Whatever mental gymnastics you're applying with this line of thinking, logic sure as hell isn't to be found there.

OK, it's settled then. No school kid ever had access to cell phone, and every teacher/adult is sane, rational and logical. Nobody has any 15 min of fame aspirations and we live in a perfect world. Thanks for clearing this up.

[Emmitto]

Looks like it was Israel:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/12/20/279183/israeli-death-squad-massacred-us-children/

Our unsworn enemy. Any takers? Other than AmericaFirst, of course.

[madgator]

See an earlier question: if the father's grief was staged, then he was part of the conspiracy.

Which, by definition, means he sacrificed his child to the Iluminatti or the Stone Cutters or the vampire elite (or whichever imaginary super-villain society you want to create). And, by definition, that means all the other 19 or so parents were also "in" on the conspiracy and sacrificed their children too, but were more convincing at their acting.

And, again, if you're seriously trying to say that you can find a group of 20 parents who would sacrifice their children without any remorse for a cause as flimsy as gun control...well, what's just say you have serious issues.



if you watch the video, you will see that the "father" didn't lose any kid.....she's right there in the picture with Obama a few days later.


let's strip away all the black ops and staged incident theories and go under the premise that the tragedy legitimately occured.

at the very least, this video gives good evidence that the government is using actors to maximize the effective use of the crisis.

[madgator]

Let's assume that everyone who has talked was lying. Let's assume no one has talked at all. The evidence for conspiracy is overwhelming, and the argument that the official story is a stronger case is ridiculous. The single bullet theory defies the laws of physics, and I don't know how you figure that Oswald managed to shoot JFK from in front. But this thread isn't about JFK, and I've wasted enough time arguing with a supporter of the lone-nut scenario. Now if you will excuse me I have to go argue with a young-Earth creationist.


the magic bullet wasn't magic and JFK wasn't shot from the front....this has been proven conclusively time and time again.

I believe that JFK was shot from a sniper in the school book depository at the exact spot they say

HOWEVER

I'm not convinced that Oswald was the man who pulled the trigger and even if he did. There is no doubt that Oswald was a CIA operative.

[gatormike51]

Question-Would any of the proposed gun control restrictions have prevented the Sandy Hook or Aurora shootings?

[gatorev12]

OK, it's settled then. No school kid ever had access to cell phone, and every teacher/adult is sane, rational and logical. Nobody has any 15 min of fame aspirations and we live in a perfect world. Thanks for clearing this up.

It'd be helpful if you took a moment to think before posting if you don't want others to call you out for suggesting such utterly ridiculous thoughts.

Ask ANY parent with kids aged between 5-9 if their kid has a cell phone and I'm willing to be the overwhelming majority will say no. Then ask if they would let their kid take it to school with them--and the number will probably plummet still further.

Suggesting a teacher or adult would value a cell phone video more than the lives of children in the school is easily one of the most asinine things I've heard in a long, long time. You don't have to be a bright-eyed idealist to state that an overwhelming percentage of teachers and adults would protect a child over their own lives and for damned certain more than filming scenes of mass chaos.

[RealGatorFan]

Question-Would any of the proposed gun control restrictions have prevented the Sandy Hook or Aurora shootings?

No. It might have made it more difficult but if someone wants to commit mass murder, no form of control will prevent it.

[gatorev12]

if you watch the video, you will see that the "father" didn't lose any kid.....she's right there in the picture with Obama a few days later.


let's strip away all the black ops and staged incident theories and go under the premise that the tragedy legitimately occured.

at the very least, this video gives good evidence that the government is using actors to maximize the effective use of the crisis.

...sooo...the incident really does happen, but a paid government actor somehow manages to falsely claim that his daughter was killed and NO ONE in the local community or media questions it? NO ONE in the school district says "wait a minute, that guy's a faker--I've never seen him around town; (or) his daughter didn't really die?!"

At what point do conspiracy theorists actually use the "analysis" part of critical thinking and actually think before they post? On a Gator board, no less--at least on whorechant, you read the posts sort of expecting utterly delusional fantasies entirely separated from reality.

[cocodrilo]

This appears to be a good one-stop website on the "Sandy Hook Hoax":

http://www.sandyhookhoax.com/

The icing on the cake would be if this website was created before the massacre occurred.

[MiamiGator79]

if you watch the video, you will see that the "father" didn't lose any kid.....she's right there in the picture with Obama a few days later.


let's strip away all the black ops and staged incident theories and go under the premise that the tragedy legitimately occured.

at the very least, this video gives good evidence that the government is using actors to maximize the effective use of the crisis.

That's the younger sister, the family picture was from a couple of years earlier, she was just wearing the dress that was a hand-me-down:

http://metabunk.org/threads/1054-Debunked-Emily-Parker-Still-Alive-after-Sandy-Hook

[Emmitto]

That's the younger sister, the family picture was from a couple of years earlier, she was just wearing the dress that was a hand-me-down:

http://metabunk.org/threads/1054-Debunked-Emily-Parker-Still-Alive-after-Sandy-Hook

Or they dress them all the same (they buy them all the same clothes, especially cute little white dresses for formal events) as is commonly done. In photos from Emilie's funeral the two remaining girls appear to be wearing the "same" coats. Hand-me-down, they dress the girls in the same clothes, or they exposed an otherwise covert conspiracy by bringing out Emilie for a photo with the POTUS sure to be published.

Faced with those possible explanations, I might consider conspiracy by the group who would judge the last one as an overwhelming favorite.

[ChartsandGrafs]

For someone who was so focused on reading comprehension earlier--did you read what that poster asked?

He asked specifically why someone didn't identify Adam Lanza from the melee. I asked him, quite simply, if he'd ever been in a situation where bullets were flying--and quite clearly, no. Moreover, he wasn't a 6-9 year old child being shot at either.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/17/15969867-police-second-person-injured-in-connecticut-school-shooting-survived?lite


That's a pretty good article that details the ongoing investigation. Contrary to what some have posted, it looks like there were two adult survivors and many other witnesses. To those asking why security cameras weren't everywhere around--it's an elementary school for ****'s sake. There aren't too many elementary schools around the country with multiple cameras on campus.

Lanza bypassed security by smashing in a window and gaining entry that way--killed the principle and then went to two classrooms, killing everyone inside those classrooms--shooting everyone inside multiple times, as has also been reported.

Since this is a state police investigation and not a federal investigation, you're free to file a FOIA request and get copies of whatever evidence has been amassed up until this point and are free to get your own independent analysis done on the forensics or anything else to your heart's (and wallet's) content.

But we all know that expecting you to get off your ass and do these things will be too much of a task. You demand "evidence"--but refuse to do anything to obtain it when that is in your power. That's called "laziness"...and when you use such laziness to ask nonsensical questions about why you haven't "seen any evidence"--sorry, not going to excuse it.

In other words, you've got nothing but deflection.

Thanks for your contribution to the government apologist movement.

[ChartsandGrafs]

OK, it's settled then. No school kid ever had access to cell phone, and every teacher/adult is sane, rational and logical. Nobody has any 15 min of fame aspirations and we live in a perfect world. Thanks for clearing this up.

LOL, repped.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Looks like it was Israel:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/12/20/279183/israeli-death-squad-massacred-us-children/

Our unsworn enemy. Any takers? Other than AmericaFirst, of course.

Wouldn't be the first time Israel has false flagged the United States or helped our government deceive the American people. If they could pull off 9/11, Sandy Hook would be a walk in the park for them.

[Emmitto]

Wouldn't be the first time Israel has false flagged the United States or helped our government deceive the American people. If they could pull off 9/11, Sandy Hook would be a walk in the park for them.

I suppose that would be true. But kinda shoddy craftsmanship, with guys streaming into woods under helicopters, leaving a car outside with a weapon in it, witnesses, survivors, ludicrous post-event gaffes, etc. I typically think of the Mossad as being a little craftier. But maybe the sloppiness is intentional to throw us off.

[gatordavisl]

and thats the point.


people here are talking about the father's behavior leading up to getting in front of the press.....doesn't seem like a grieving man and then SNAP! grieving.

comes off as very strange. Would you expect him to somehow behave normally or rationally? I think anyone who's daughter was shot and murdered would be prone to exhibit strange behavior. It's just about the most emotionally extreme situation I can imagine.

[ChartsandGrafs]

I suppose that would be true. But kinda shoddy craftsmanship, with guys streaming into woods under helicopters, leaving a car outside with a weapon in it, witnesses, survivors, ludicrous post-event gaffes, etc. I typically think of the Mossad as being a little craftier. But maybe the sloppiness is intentional to throw us off.

Yes, if we had a truly honest government and media, the Mossad would have no choice but to carry out their operations with as few mistakes as possible. They would have to be as efficient and precise as a German train schedule. Under the current system, with a dishonest government beholden to Israel and a degenerate media largely controlled by pro-Zionist Jews and Christians, the Mossad can do their thing with the full knowledge that the propaganda forces of government and media will cover for them.

Think about it. The 9/11 false flag's cover story has more holes in it than a block of Swiss cheese, but the majority of people still believe it. That's the power of propaganda.

[Emmitto]

Yes, if we had a truly honest government and media, the Mossad would have no choice but to carry out their operations with as few mistakes as possible. They would have to be as efficient and precise as a German train schedule. Under the current system, with a dishonest government beholden to Israel and a degenerate media largely controlled by pro-Zionist Jews and Christians, the Mossad can do their thing with the full knowledge that the propaganda forces of government and media will cover for them.

Think about it. The 9/11 false flag's cover story has more holes in it than a block of Swiss cheese, but the majority of people still believe it. That's the power of propaganda.

I'm more suspicious of 9/11. But even if it was truly a conspiracy, that doesn't create a connection to this. I see few holes in Sandy Hook other than ones being relentlessly pressed beyond what I consider sound reasoning. My idea of sound reasoning could be poor. But I'm extremely confident that maniacs do exist and occasionally do maniacal things. That's what I see here, so far.

[ChartsandGrafs]

I'm more suspicious of 9/11. But even if it was truly a conspiracy, that doesn't create a connection to this.

I'm not saying it does. All I'm saying is the narrative is far easier to control than most people realize.

I see few holes in Sandy Hook other than ones being relentlessly pressed beyond what I consider sound reasoning. My idea of sound reasoning could be poor. But I'm extremely confident that maniacs do exist and occasionally do maniacal things. That's what I see here, so far.

Yes, maniacs do exist and occasionally they do maniacal things. At the same time, you also have to realize government assassins and hit squads exist and occasionally they carry out black operations to pursue a political agenda.

Based on the scant evidence released so far, I don't think anyone can reasonably conclude what took place at Sandy Hook.

[AmericaFirst]

Looks like it was Israel:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/12/20/279183/israeli-death-squad-massacred-us-children/

Our unsworn enemy. Any takers? Other than AmericaFirst, of course.



I could see Israel having a hand in it. They intended to massacre all of those aboard the USS Liberty, blame Egypt for the attack, and bring us into the war because of it. They've also been killing their own people for years knowing that most will believe their reports on how it must be an Iranian, Palestinian, Muslim plot. They also intended to bomb the US and British Embassies back in the 50s/60s and blame it on The Muslim Brotherhood. Oh, and they likely had a hand in the JFK killing as well. He didn't want Israel to get their hands on a nuclear weapon and was pro-Palestine. The evil SOBs can't have none of that, right? And then there's 9/11 where Mossad agents were caught FILMING the attack from a bridge as if they knew it was going to happen. I know there's been a couple people from the BBC that are convinced that Israel carried out 9/11 and if you think about it, they benefited from it just like they would have benefited from the attack on the USS Liberty. Every enemy of Israel is now an enemy of America...just like they want it. Whether Israel had a hand in 9/11 or not, they knew it was going to happen.


Unfortunately, our knowledge of how to carry out despicable false-flag operations for political purposes (Operation Northwoods) likely stems from Israel, the most evil entity in the world today.

[AmericaFirst]

I'm not saying it does. All I'm saying is the narrative is far easier to control than most people realize.



Yes, maniacs do exist and occasionally they do maniacal things. At the same time, you also have to realize government assassins and hit squads exist and occasionally they carry out black operations to pursue a political agenda.

Based on the scant evidence released so far, I don't think anyone can reasonably conclude what took place at Sandy Hook.




Well said. It's disgusting but furthering a political agenda sometimes means more to a government than actual human lives.

[gatorev12]

In other words, you've got nothing but deflection.

Thanks for your contribution to the government apologist movement.

In other words, you're too lazy to file a FOIA to get access to the evidence. Most of it would be public information (with portions of it redacted dealing with minor children) since this is, again, a *state* investigation and the government has to release information to the public upon request.

But no, you'd rather troll the internet demanding these things be "proved" to you rather than do your own work. Thank you for your contributions to intellectual dishonesty and internet trolling.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Well said. It's disgusting but furthering a political agenda sometimes means more to a government than actual human lives.

Why do you think most people go into government and make a career out of it? It's not because they value human life, it's because they have a political agenda they wish to pursue and the government provides the means (legalized force, theft, murder, etc...) to achieve it.

It's only in the last hundred years, through government controlled education and media, that people have been brainwashed to believe in myths about benevolent government.

[gatorev12]

Wouldn't be the first time Israel has false flagged the United States or helped our government deceive the American people. If they could pull off 9/11, Sandy Hook would be a walk in the park for them.

...um...why, exactly?

While we're at it, I think King Tut did it. Zombie-style attacks are on the rise around the world and no one would suspect it...plus, Egypt has every reason to plan a false-flag attack on the US to get us off their backs about the Muslim Brotherhood.

PROVE ME WRONG.

[ChartsandGrafs]

In other words, you're too lazy to file a FOIA to get access to the evidence. Most of it would be public information (with portions of it redacted dealing with minor children) since this is, again, a *state* investigation and the government has to release information to the public upon request.

But no, you'd rather troll the internet demanding these things be "proved" to you rather than do your own work. Thank you for your contributions to intellectual dishonesty and internet trolling.

LOL, FOIA to get access to the evidence. True Believer talk.

[gatorev12]

Yes, maniacs do exist and occasionally they do maniacal things. At the same time, you also have to realize government assassins and hit squads exist and occasionally they carry out black operations to pursue a political agenda.

Based on the scant evidence released so far, I don't think anyone can reasonably conclude what took place at Sandy Hook.

Entirely right.

We know the government asked Disney to cooperate with propaganda in WWII, so that clearly is incontrovertible prove that Disney employees staged this entire event while the government turned a blind eye. After all, Disney controls a large portion of the media and they benefit the most from keeping children pent up and cooped up inside their parents' homes, needing entertainment.

I'm thinking the real perpetrator was probably Gaston (the evil French dude from Beauty & the Beast). The MIC has spent untold amounts of money on creating elite assassins from childhood cartoons (after all, who'd suspect them?!) and Sandy Hook was the product of all this. Gaston had the best shot out of all the Disney cartoon characters.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Entirely right.

We know the government asked Disney to cooperate with propaganda in WWII, so that clearly is incontrovertible prove that Disney employees staged this entire event while the government turned a blind eye. After all, Disney controls a large portion of the media and they benefit the most from keeping children pent up and cooped up inside their parents' homes, needing entertainment.

I'm thinking the real perpetrator was probably Gaston (the evil French dude from Beauty & the Beast). The MIC has spent untold amounts of money on creating elite assassins from childhood cartoons (after all, who'd suspect them?!) and Sandy Hook was the product of all this. Gaston had the best shot out of all the Disney cartoon characters.

Exhibit 1:

Government apologist deflection through mindless nonsense.

Intent:

To get people to stop reading the thread.

Motivation:

Doesn't want people thinking outside unapproved parameters.

Prescribed response:

LOL!

[gatorev12]

LOL, FOIA to get access to the evidence. True Believer talk.

Of course you'd scoff at it. You've never tried it and it's farrrr easier to sit back and say "lol" then to get off your ass and take the time to do it. If you're truly interested in "the truth" and in proving that the government is lying, then you'd think you'd jump at the opportunity.

[gatorev12]

Exhibit 1:

Government apologist deflection through mindless nonsense.

Intent:

To get people to stop reading the thread.

Motivation:

Doesn't want people thinking outside unapproved parameters.

Prescribed response:

LOL!

Says the Disney apologist. Your obsession with Snow White prevents you from thinking objectively and it's readily transparent in the way you leap to Disney's defense at every available occasion.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Play nice.

[gatorev12]

.

[Spurffelbow833]

.

[madgator]

Would you expect him to somehow behave normally or rationally? I think anyone who's daughter was shot and murdered would be prone to exhibit strange behavior. It's just about the most emotionally extreme situation I can imagine.



"Normal" for the circumstances......yes, I expect someone not to laugh and giggle before going into grief mode when the cameras are turned on


did you watch the video?

[ChartsandGrafs]

The Sandy Hook Made for TV Drama Hoax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xksBrRejeoM



Sandy Hook Mass Media Psyop: Outtakes and Bloopers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhLe2i8uFwc&feature=youtu.be

[Gatormb]

Strange it may be...but it's still ONE parent. The other 19 or so parents haven't exhibited anything other than crushing grief one would more or less expect from a parent in that situation.

If you're wanting an example of how someone can go quickly from a jovial emotion to sadness relatively quickly...consider this: a popular NCO goes down within his combat unit and a number of guys are shaken up about it. The unit itself is still in a combat zone and a firefight is still going on. The next-highest ranking NCO is expected to step in and lead and does so, getting everyone refocused and the squad out of there. On the way out, the new ranking NCO starts going up to people, cracking jokes, smiling, getting everyone's minds off dwelling on it. The entire time the NCO is with his unit, he manages to keep smiling and a positive attitude...but when he gets back to the base and to a private corner, he breaks down with grief that he suppressed until that point.

Bottom line: most people try and cheer others up when they're sad and it's not strange even for a person in extreme grief to find something to smile about. When reminded of the grief again, it floods back. Grief and sadness are tricky to predict and people react in all sorts of different ways to it.

Voice of reason. AGAIN.

[madgator]

Voice of reason. AGAIN.

So now we are considering that a combat situation with highly trained soldiers is the same as a parent losing a child being killed in a random act of violence in a school


and that's considered reasonable?

[gatorev12]

So now we are considering that a combat situation with highly trained soldiers is the same as a parent losing a child being killed in a random act of violence in a school

and that's considered reasonable?

There is no training for grief. Some can push it away for a time while focusing on something else, but it will return.

Obviously, no situation is comparable to losing one's child--even losing a close friend in combat. But that wasn't the question. The question was wondering if it were possible to so quickly to change emotions from one of relative joviality to solemness, then grief in a fairly rapid time frame without it being acting. Since you're not exactly questioning the example I gave, one would think it's reasonable to conclude that it is very possible to rapidly change emotions without it being acting.

[madgator]

There is no training for grief. Some can push it away for a time while focusing on something else, but it will return.

Obviously, no situation is comparable to losing one's child--even losing a close friend in combat. But that wasn't the question. The question was wondering if it were possible to so quickly to change emotions from one of relative joviality to solemness, then grief in a fairly rapid time frame without it being acting. Since you're not exactly questioning the example I gave, one would think it's reasonable to conclude that it is very possible to rapidly change emotions without it being acting.


even if I agree with what you are saying....did you watch the video?


what about the photograph evidence. girl is supposed to be dead and they show a family photo with the girl in it and it was obviously a photoshopped image taken from a photo with Barrack Obama 3 days after the girl was killed.

and the father in the photo going from laughing to a somber speech after taking a few "stage breaths"

did you watch the video?


it looks like acting


I showed the video to my wife starting it from only from where they show the father in line stepping up....without any pretext of the conspiracy (of which she was not aware). I stopped it after a few sentences into his "speech"

she asked legitimately after seeing it "that's an actor?"

[AmericaFirst]

even if I agree with what you are saying....did you watch the video?


what about the photograph evidence. girl is supposed to be dead and they show a family photo with the girl in it and it was obviously a photoshopped image taken from a photo with Barrack Obama 3 days after the girl was killed.

and the father in the photo going from laughing to a somber speech after taking a few "stage breaths"

did you watch the video?


it looks like acting


I showed the video to my wife starting it from only from where they show the father in line stepping up....without any pretext of the conspiracy (of which she was not aware). I stopped it after a few sentences into his "speech"

she asked legitimately after seeing it "that's an actor?"



I don't think any of those in this thread defending the father's reaction actually watched his reaction in that clip. Laughing while walking up to the mic and then suddenly going into "grief" mode. He had to work himself up...after his kid was murdered in a classroom? Like I said, no one in their right mind would believe he wasn't in on something had this girl simply been missing. He reminded me of those parents that gives a statement like that after their child goes missing and then become the prime suspect in the kid's disappearance.



Watch the other clips as well. Almost every reaction is bizarre.

- Father's strange reaction
- Strange reaction of other's
- Car was supposed to be the killer's and it wasn't
- Kid says they heard no gunshots
- The picture of the girl wearing the same dress as the Obama photo-op
- How about the fact that this particular girl isn't in ANY of the class pictures?
- Both locations (Aurora and Sandy Hook) are mentioned in the Batman movie.


And now have you noticed that no one seems to give a crap about this shooting in the media? It's all gun control, gun control, and more gun control. Agenda accomplished.



All of those kids (and the adults) are alive, IMO. There was supposedly 20+ kids that were killed in this heinous crime but we've heard from less than 5 families. What about the others? Why are the families all hardcore gun control advocates? Why don't they want to know more about the background of this crazy shooter? Why don't they specifically mention keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally unstable as opposed to their agenda of taking ALL GUNS from law-abiding citizens? Because this is a government plot meant to further the gun control agenda. We've seen shootings at all levels of school prior to this and they haven't been able to pass gun control legislation. This "shooting" allows them to further that agenda and make the NRA look like a bunch of crazy loons for not supporting it knowing that kids were supposedly involved in this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_b9hh2lp3I

[Emmitto]

Strange reactions during an unfathomable situation (to most) should not only be understandable, but perhaps expected.

Not having looked into it but having an actual dispatcher in the family, I'm betting the car is chatter from an unrelated traffic stop. That was his first rebuttal when I brought this up. All other police business doesn't stop. It could've been something going on an hour away from the school.

The dress has been debated on this very thread. Sisters wearing the same or similar dresses is hardly unusual.

The school had like 600 students. It's not a one room log cabin. And kids not recognizing gunfire from a distance is also not weird, it's refreshing. Some of the adults didn't either. The woman who worked in the main office interviewed on 60 Minutes also didn't realize it was gunfire initially.

"Aurora" does NOT appear in Batman. "Sandy Hook" does. This is discussed thoroughly on another thread.

I too haven't seen a class photo including Emilie. I also haven't seen all photos. The photos from her and two dozen or so funerals are enough for me.

Why is the stuff you get from various Internet sites, some glaringly erroneous, so trustworthy? Why aren't these jokers trying to pull one over on you? Maybe they constitute a conspiracy of their own?

And yet as a certain piece of the conspiracy unravels, it's just discarded and forgotten. It doesn't harm the conspiracy's merit, it's just removed and the parts that haven't been extinguished move on and others take their place. Once a conspiracy is given life, it's Vampire-like in its immortality.

Conspiracies exist. But not everything is a conspiracy.

[Juggernautz]

That's a conspiracy in itself...

[AmericaFirst]

Strange reactions during an unfathomable situation (to most) should not only be understandable, but perhaps expected.

Not having looked into it but having an actual dispatcher in the family, I'm betting the car is chatter from an unrelated traffic stop. That was his first rebuttal when I brought this up. All other police business doesn't stop. It could've been something going on an hour away from the school.

The dress has been debated on this very thread. Sisters wearing the same or similar dresses is hardly unusual.

The school had like 600 students. It's not a one room log cabin. And kids not recognizing gunfire from a distance is also not weird, it's refreshing. Some of the adults didn't either. The woman who worked in the main office interviewed on 60 Minutes also didn't realize it was gunfire initially.

"Aurora" does NOT appear in Batman. "Sandy Hook" does. This is discussed thoroughly on another thread.

I too haven't seen a class photo including Emilie. I also haven't seen all photos. The photos from her and two dozen or so funerals are enough for me.

Why is the stuff you get from various Internet sites, some glaringly erroneous, so trustworthy? Why aren't these jokers trying to pull one over on you? Maybe they constitute a conspiracy of their own?

And yet as a certain piece of the conspiracy unravels, it's just discarded and forgotten. It doesn't harm the conspiracy's merit, it's just removed and the parts that haven't been extinguished move on and others take their place. Once a conspiracy is given life, it's Vampire-like in its immortality.

Conspiracies exist. But not everything is a conspiracy.



Is that not "Aurora" right there on top of the building?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41_5KLhApg

[bluelang]

What about the funeral workers? And the open casket funerals? And the burials? All faked?

[bluelang]

And all this? Window dressing? Part of the propaganda machine? Outright lies to sell a gun control tsunami THAT HASN'T HAPPENED?

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-12-17/politics/35887598_1_funeral-director-funeral-program-open-casket

[cocodrilo]

Is that not "Aurora" right there on top of the building?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41_5KLhApg

Looks like it to me. Do you know at what time it appears in the movie?

[Emmitto]

Is that not "Aurora" right there on top of the building?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41_5KLhApg

It sure is. And what movie is that from?

[autiger007]

This crap must be blowing up on the internetz. I have not visited a political forum/website in months and this is what I find everywhere today. In any case, I skimmed over these videos and reports and found most of it to be kind of thin and at best dubious. However, there was one video that is kind of interesting. Not sure wtf is going on, but this guy really makes some great points, especially with respect to the first responders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EEKqcRELz4

[gatorev12]

even if I agree with what you are saying....did you watch the video?


If you agree with what I'm saying, then there shouldn't be much for you to keep arguing about. It's possible that the father was caught off-camera in a lighthearted moment by someone trying to cheer him up (which is entirely normal to have people cracking jokes in an attempt to get someone in extreme grief to find something to smile about). He realizes he's about to go on camera and figures (rightly) that he probably should be a bit more solemn for the occasion and re-focuses.

Was it a bit odd seeing the entire process caught on camera? Of course...never denied it wasn't strange behavior.

what about the photograph evidence. girl is supposed to be dead and they show a family photo with the girl in it and it was obviously a photoshopped image taken from a photo with Barrack Obama 3 days after the girl was killed.

and the father in the photo going from laughing to a somber speech after taking a few "stage breaths"

...so...the girl's not really dead?

Did you read the article I posted earlier in the thread? Where the head of the Connecticut Mortician's Association discusses the volunteer work they were doing for the community and how extra morticians from around the state came to Newton because there's only one funeral home in that town and there were too many bodies for that one funeral home to handle?

IF you're claiming that the father was a paid actor and the girl really isn't dead, then you have the Newton cops, the Connecticut State Police (and presumably some feds too), several people from the Connecticut Mortician's Association, the media, and several dozen townspeople in Newton who ALL must be in on the conspiracy on some level. Keeping quiet and not exposing the dad for a fraud.

...OR is it more likely than ONE parent got caught in an odd moment when he thought he was off-camera and changed his reaction (whether genuine or somewhat acted out) to reflect the more somber occasion?


...as a corollary: did you see that picture making the facebook/twitter waves about some Marine in San Diego who dressed up in his cammies and voluntarily stood guard outside an elementary school after the shootings?

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/12/20/update-former-marine-standing-guard-lied-about-service-record/

--turns out, most of his story was made up: he wasn't a Sergeant in the Marine Reserves, was never deployed overseas, and certainly didn't serve for 10 years. It took him all of a day to get busted and for the media to retract their earlier reports. People live for busting frauds and fakers--and yet, we're supposed to believe that hundreds of people are keeping silent about this dad faking a story about his daughter's death?

[AmericaFirst]

If you agree with what I'm saying, then there shouldn't be much for you to keep arguing about. It's possible that the father was caught off-camera in a lighthearted moment by someone trying to cheer him up (which is entirely normal to have people cracking jokes in an attempt to get someone in extreme grief to find something to smile about). He realizes he's about to go on camera and figures (rightly) that he probably should be a bit more solemn for the occasion and re-focuses.

Was it a bit odd seeing the entire process caught on camera? Of course...never denied it wasn't strange behavior.



...so...the girl's not really dead?

Did you read the article I posted earlier in the thread? Where the head of the Connecticut Mortician's Association discusses the volunteer work they were doing for the community and how extra morticians from around the state came to Newton because there's only one funeral home in that town and there were too many bodies for that one funeral home to handle?

IF you're claiming that the father was a paid actor and the girl really isn't dead, then you have the Newton cops, the Connecticut State Police (and presumably some feds too), several people from the Connecticut Mortician's Association, the media, and several dozen townspeople in Newton who ALL must be in on the conspiracy on some level. Keeping quiet and not exposing the dad for a fraud.

...OR is it more likely than ONE parent got caught in an odd moment when he thought he was off-camera and changed his reaction (whether genuine or somewhat acted out) to reflect the more somber occasion?


...as a corollary: did you see that picture making the facebook/twitter waves about some Marine in San Diego who dressed up in his cammies and voluntarily stood guard outside an elementary school after the shootings?

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/12/20/update-former-marine-standing-guard-lied-about-service-record/

--turns out, most of his story was made up: he wasn't a Sergeant in the Marine Reserves, was never deployed overseas, and certainly didn't serve for 10 years. It took him all of a day to get busted and for the media to retract their earlier reports. People live for busting frauds and fakers--and yet, we're supposed to believe that hundreds of people are keeping silent about this dad faking a story about his daughter's death?



First, we have a controlled media in America. The "freedom of the press" stuff is a myth in this day and age. The media is 100% biased and 100% liberal. They want gun control. Why would they ask questions about the shooting since this clearly furthers their political agenda? So, yes, they are in on it simply because it furthers their agenda.

I think the guy is probably her dad but his daughter isn't dead. Heck, we don't even know if she was in the class. She is not IN ANY of the class pictures. It's obviously difficult for him to portray a grieving father, or ahem, as you can see from his laughing at the beginning, knowing his daughter isn't actually dead. He is a horrible actor. Horrible.

The reaction from this "father" and the people don't appear to be that of a town in crisis mode. From the laughing, to the fake emotions/attempts to cry (and they couldn't), to the fact that they ALL are HUGE gun control advocates, tells me this is a hoax to further a political agenda.

[gatorev12]

This crap must be blowing up on the internetz. I have not visited a political forum/website in months and this is what I find everywhere today. In any case, I skimmed over these videos and reports and found most of it to be kind of thin and at best dubious. However, there was one video that is kind of interesting. Not sure wtf is going on, but this guy really makes some great points, especially with respect to the first responders.


Only watched about 6 minutes to see what you're talking about and if there's anything substantial there--but if that's the best CTs can do, then it's really saying how dubious their entire claims are.

For starters, it isn't exactly uncommon for police to cordon off a crime scene from the public for a brief amount of time to secure the perimeter and/or to collect evidence. In fact, that's standard procedure for emergency responders.

Second, there's absolutely NO context given to any of the media clippings--just edited snippets of larger clips that doesn't show what time of day it was. In the aerial footage from the helicopters flying over the scene, look at the ground: there were long shadows and the colors weren't as crisp--which means one of 2 things: the sun was either going down or coming up. Given that the shooting happened at around 9:30am and it'd take over an hour or so for the national news crews to get to the town and setup, I'm going to lean towards the fact that the (edited) footage this guy was using involved news helicopters flying over the scene hours after the shooting happened.

[gatorev12]

First, we have a controlled media in America. The "freedom of the press" stuff is a myth in this day and age. The media is 100% biased and 100% liberal. They want gun control. Why would they ask questions about the shooting since this clearly furthers their political agenda? So, yes, they are in on it simply because it furthers their agenda.

I think the guy is probably her dad but his daughter isn't dead. Heck, we don't even know if she was in the class. She is not IN ANY of the class pictures. It's obviously difficult for him to portray a grieving father, or ahem, as you can see from his laughing at the beginning, knowing his daughter isn't actually dead. He is a horrible actor. Horrible.

The reaction from this "father" and the people don't appear to be that of a town in crisis mode. From the laughing, to the fake emotions/attempts to cry (and they couldn't), to the fact that they ALL are HUGE gun control advocates, tells me this is a hoax to further a political agenda.

Always good to know what the Iranian perspective is, thanks "AmericaFirst."

While you're at it, please ask your Iranian friends/masters to answer some of the outstanding questions you've completely ignored in this thread:

namely--even IF the media is biased and liberal, how to explain the funerals? Dozens of ordinary people from a random small town in America just willing to go along with a massive lie?

Add up all the "actors" needed to pull something like this off (the victims and their families, the media, the Newton police, Newton school district administrators and teachers, Connecticut State Police, Connecticut Morticians, etc)--and that's well over 200-300 people who need to stay absolutely and completely silent about what they know.

I've honestly seen cartoons about squirrel detectives that are more believable.

[philnotfil]

First, we have a controlled media in America. The "freedom of the press" stuff is a myth in this day and age. The media is 100% biased and 100% liberal.

Saying things like this makes it hard to take you seriously on anything else.

[AmericaFirst]

Saying things like this makes it hard to take you seriously on anything else.


Keep thinking that we have "freedom of the press" while they continue to dupe the American people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWY14eyMFg

[Emmitto]

This crap must be blowing up on the internetz. I have not visited a political forum/website in months and this is what I find everywhere today. In any case, I skimmed over these videos and reports and found most of it to be kind of thin and at best dubious. However, there was one video that is kind of interesting. Not sure wtf is going on, but this guy really makes some great points, especially with respect to the first responders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EEKqcRELz4

Holy S. I'd love to hear exactly which parts of that you were impressed by. This guy might be trying to derail the conspiracy, in fact, because this comes off as near satire.

You mention first responder stuff. He can't figure out why vehicles aren't parked on the crime scene (and they may bell have been earlier.) He thinks that caution tape blocks passage like a landslide (when in fact if you pay attention to ambulances at events like ball games they often are surrounded by cauution tape so they CAN get out. At a HS football game last fall an EMT asked me to hold the tape and them wrap it back around a cone after they moved the ambulance, which I did.) He goes on and on about this ambulance not moving although establishes no timeline to prove that and even if he could--so?

His unquestionable IDs are anything but. The dress has been discussed here. Even if that was Victotia Soto singing (and this is by far his best effort), so? In his mind that establishes her as an actor, and by extension an actor in this sordid affair. In my mind it establishes her as a crappy singer and it's not surprising that she ended up in a different line of work.

He even starts by showing us this super professional (non-governmental, apparently) crisis acting company, then pins all of his evidence on decidedly poor, non-professional acting. He doesn't even know his own point.

I pray I'm never in a lineup and he's the witness. No telling who he'll say I am, "sithout a doubt." One of his definitive proofs was that two women in different photos bend their arms the same! Say it out loud, but not where anyone can hear you.

The kid here is probably well-meaning. But his presentation sucks and his evidence is worse. Perhaps at one point he suffered from "catonia", which is how he diagnosed the obvious "disorder" that causes kids to put their fingers in their mouths.

If someone presented a video just like this one accusing the creator of this one of a crime, I wonder if he'd despair, guilty or not, because it's just so convincing!?

[AmericaFirst]

Always good to know what the Iranian perspective is, thanks "AmericaFirst."

While you're at it, please ask your Iranian friends/masters to answer some of the outstanding questions you've completely ignored in this thread:

namely--even IF the media is biased and liberal, how to explain the funerals? Dozens of ordinary people from a random small town in America just willing to go along with a massive lie?

Add up all the "actors" needed to pull something like this off (the victims and their families, the media, the Newton police, Newton school district administrators and teachers, Connecticut State Police, Connecticut Morticians, etc)--and that's well over 200-300 people who need to stay absolutely and completely silent about what they know.

I've honestly seen cartoons about squirrel detectives that are more believable.


Always good to get the Zionist view on things from you. Yes, this is a hoax and the fact that you don't believe our government is capable of pulling this off tells me a lot about your mindset. Newsflash, in Operation Northwoods they intended to have the CIA pose as Cuban terrorists and hijack planes (sound familiar?), bomb our own military bases, take hostages, shall I continue? How would they pull that off? Same thing here. Because they can.



Any false flag operation takes hundreds and sometimes thousands of people to go along with it. It's not an easy task to accomplish. That's how you explain it.



I figured you'd be the first one to defend the government in this case since your Israelis have perfected the false-flag operation over the years. The Mossad carries out the attack and then they blame it on Muslim terrorists. That's how the Zionists operate.



When do you think Israel will attack another US Ship and attempt to blame it on Iran?

[gatorev12]

Always good to get the Zionist view on things from you. Yes, this is a hoax and the fact that you don't believe our government is capable of pulling this off tells me a lot about your mindset. Newsflash, in Operation Northwoods they intended to have the CIA pose as Cuban terrorists and hijack planes (sound familiar?), bomb our own military bases, take hostages, shall I continue? How would they pull that off? Same thing here. Because they can.


From the way you talk about it, you'd almost think Operation Northwoods actually happened.

Any false flag operation takes hundreds and sometimes thousands of people to go along with it. It's not an easy task to accomplish. That's how you explain it.


Because getting hundreds (if not thousands) of people to keep absolutely silent about a plan to murder 20 children is believable.

I figured you'd be the first one to defend the government in this case since your Israelis have perfected the false-flag operation over the years. The Mossad carries out the attack and then they blame it on Muslim terrorists. That's how the Zionists operate.


You're just another Disney apologist, aren't you? A paid corporate shill for the Mouse trying to silence the truth with your deflections and strawman arguments.

ALL problems in this world stem from an unholy alliance of the Disney Corporation and the Jews (not to be confused with Zionists--Jews have been part of every international conspiracy for centuries). "THEY"ve conditioned you to be brainwashed into focusing on Israel when that only represents a fraction of what "they" do.

[autiger007]

Holy S. I'd love to hear exactly which parts of that you were impressed by. This guy might be trying to derail the conspiracy, in fact, because this comes off as near satire.

You mention first responder stuff. He can't figure out why vehicles aren't parked on the crime scene (and they may bell have been earlier.) He thinks that caution tape blocks passage like a landslide (when in fact if you pay attention to ambulances at events like ball games they often are surrounded by cauution tape so they CAN get out. At a HS football game last fall an EMT asked me to hold the tape and them wrap it back around a cone after they moved the ambulance, which I did.) He goes on and on about this ambulance not moving although establishes no timeline to prove that and even if he could--so?

His unquestionable IDs are anything but. The dress has been discussed here. Even if that was Victotia Soto singing (and this is by far his best effort), so? In his mind that establishes her as an actor, and by extension an actor in this sordid affair. In my mind it establishes her as a crappy singer and it's not surprising that she ended up in a different line of work.

He even starts by showing us this super professional (non-governmental, apparently) crisis acting company, then pins all of his evidence on decidedly poor, non-professional acting. He doesn't even know his own point.

I pray I'm never in a lineup and he's the witness. No telling who he'll say I am, "sithout a doubt." One of his definitive proofs was that two women in different photos bend their arms the same! Say it out loud, but not where anyone can hear you.

The kid here is probably well-meaning. But his presentation sucks and his evidence is worse. Perhaps at one point he suffered from "catonia", which is how he diagnosed the obvious "disorder" that causes kids to put their fingers in their mouths.

If someone presented a video just like this one accusing the creator of this one of a crime, I wonder if he'd despair, guilty or not, because it's just so convincing!?


You are way overreacting to my post. However, I fail to see how you countered the main issues brought up here. Basically, your entire argument is that I'm an idiot. Okay... Please keep in mind, however, I did not start this thread and I'm mainly commenting on videos that have been uploaded on some pretty prominent blogs regarding this subject over the last few days. And by prominent I mean like Hot Air, which is a pretty respected right of center site. I wasn't trying to make a definitive comment one way or the other. I personally consider myself a mostly disinterested observer and I rarely read or comment here anymore. My main point was that (for whatever reason) people are talking about this a lot more than one would expect.

[Emmitto]

You are way overreacting to my post. However, I fail to see how you countered the main issues brought up here. Basically, your entire argument is that I'm an idiot. Okay... Please keep in mind, however, I did not start this thread and I'm mainly commenting on videos that have been uploaded on some pretty prominent blogs regarding this subject over the last few days. I wasn't trying to make a definitive comment one way or the other. I personally consider myself a mostly disinterested observer.

I have no reason to believe you're an idiot and didn't intend to insinuate it. My apologies. (FTR, the "kid" I was referring to at the end was the video's creator, in case that part was also insulting.)

In fact, being disinterested in this conspiracy is probably a sign of intelligence. I should follow your lead. So I probably did overreact. I get a little worked up over this one because at this point I feel like 20 kids were killed and their families are likely devastated (not to mention the adult victims.)

My point is that the stuff in this video is weak at best, although perhaps you would indeed need to have been interested to notice.

Again, my sincerest apologies. All insults were intended for the video's "evidence", and just a little for the video's creator.

[Tebowism0823]

I can't say what I actually believe. There are so many questions out there that need to be answered. For some here, just for you guys to be able to dismiss this without knowing the truth is astonishing to me. Wouldn't you want to know 100% before closing the book? I could care less about the left and the right and all that garbage, if the government had anything to do with this to help move their agenda them something needs to be done. All we want are answers.

[chompalot]

This isn't a missing kid case. She's dead. Some asshole shot her.

And now a bunch of other assholes on the internet are dishonoring her memory by pretending it didn't happen.

That's right bluelang. But it's just as bad to be trolling with this crap. As a matter of fact I felt it necessary to finally place someone on ignore--AmericaFirst

[AmericaFirst]

That's right bluelang. But it's just as bad to be trolling with this crap. As a matter of fact I felt it necessary to finally place someone on ignore--AmericaFirst



Good. I'll wear that with a badge of honor. Some of us refuse to follow along with the antics of our government when they've shown in the past that they aren't above floating the false-flag operation to the American people in order to further a political agenda. Our government hopes there's another 50 million or so like yourself out there that won't look and think for yourself. Our government isn't above committing a despicable act if they believe a political agenda can be accomplished.

[AmericaFirst]

I can't say what I a rurally believe. There are so many questions out there that need to be answered. For some here, just for you guys to be able to dismiss this without knowing the truth is astonishing to me. Wouldn't you want to know 100% before closing the book? I could care less about the left and the right and all that garbage, if the government had anything to do with this to help move their agenda them something needs to be done. All we want are answers.



Well said. There's a ton of evidence that suggests that we don't know the entire story. How anyone can defend the creepy and downright strange reaction of that girl's "father" is beyond me. Might as well defend Casey Anthony, IMO.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Keep thinking that we have "freedom of the press" while they continue to dupe the American people.

Seriously, don't even bother. You can't help people who still believe this late in the game and after everything that has taken place that we have a free and honest media. These people actually believe the massive, multinational corporations who control the mainstream media exist to report the truth to them. They have no idea the media exists primarily to control the way they think and see the world.

These people are already gone. Just let them go.

[gatorev12]

Seriously, don't even bother. You can't help people who still believe this late in the game and after everything that has taken place that we have a free and honest media. These people actually believe the massive, multinational corporations who control the mainstream media exist to report the truth to them. They have no idea the media exists primarily to control the way they think and see the world.

These people are already gone. Just let them go.

Given your vast intelligence that is dripping through this post, I'm curious as to why you blame multinational corporations and the media, but NOT DISNEY!?!???

Are you so blinded by your infatuation with the Disney princesses (who's creation was designed to keep boys and girls brainwashed from infancy) to not see how steadily the Mouse has overtaken EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES?!?! From entertainment to the media to business, the Mouse is everywhere. Along with the Jews. Can't forget them...they've been part of every serious/credible conspiracy theory since medieval times. Dare I say, that's what makes a conspiracy theory believable: the Jews have to benefit in some way.

[gatorev12]

I can't say what I a rurally believe. There are so many questions out there that need to be answered. For some here, just for you guys to be able to dismiss this without knowing the truth is astonishing to me. Wouldn't you want to know 100% before closing the book? I could care less about the left and the right and all that garbage, if the government had anything to do with this to help move their agenda them something needs to be done. All we want are answers.

If you can't say what you really believe out of the fear as to how it will look to others, that's probably a clue that whatever you really believe is off-base.

I'm not trying to insult you here, but your attitude and mindset is reflective of the conspiracy theorists' "Nuremberg defense" of "we just want answers/'the truth'".

Which, at it's heart, is a vain, narcissistic, and self-serving attitude/mindset to have. Hate to break it to you: but just because others reject the "questions" and theories that have been brought up doesn't mean they blindly accepted the official version of events either. People have brains and can work through the problems independently of the media or the government.

Many of the "questions" that conspiracy theorists have brought forth in this thread are easily debunked by anyone with a functional brain. 2/3s of the "questions" stem from the actions of ONE person/family involved in this tragedy--which, while strange, doesn't exactly make it an inescapable conclusion that the entire thing was a sham. Since no one can sit here and make the claim that it's impossible for a person to quickly change emotions and/or be susceptible to expectations of how one should act in public following a tragedy like this--that's really all that needs to be said.

About the only conspiracy theorist who's addressed the question of the funerals and the caskets is "AmericaFirst"--who's proffered his theory that no one actually died in this and that the 20 children are alive and well. Hundred (if not thousands) of people are helping maintain the illusion of their death.

I'll ask you directly: do you believe that? If not...please offer your thoughts to clarify the outstanding question about the funerals, the bodies, and the morticians who've gone on the record saying what they did to volunteer in this tragedy.

[Tebowism0823]

If you can't say what you really believe out of the fear as to how it will look to others, that's probably a clue that whatever you really believe is off-base.

I'm not trying to insult you here, but your attitude and mindset is reflective of the conspiracy theorists' "Nuremberg defense" of "we just want answers/'the truth'".

Which, at it's heart, is a vain, narcissistic, and self-serving attitude/mindset to have. Hate to break it to you: but just because others reject the "questions" and theories that have been brought up doesn't mean they blindly accepted the official version of events either. People have brains and can work through the problems independently of the media or the government.

Many of the "questions" that conspiracy theorists have brought forth in this thread are easily debunked by anyone with a functional brain. 2/3s of the "questions" stem from the actions of ONE person/family involved in this tragedy--which, while strange, doesn't exactly make it an inescapable conclusion that the entire thing was a sham. Since no one can sit here and make the claim that it's impossible for a person to quickly change emotions and/or be susceptible to expectations of how one should act in public following a tragedy like this--that's really all that needs to be said.

About the only conspiracy theorist who's addressed the question of the funerals and the caskets is "AmericaFirst"--who's proffered his theory that no one actually died in this and that the 20 children are alive and well. Hundred (if not thousands) of people are helping maintain the illusion of their death.

I'll ask you directly: do you believe that? If not...please offer your thoughts to clarify the outstanding question about the funerals, the bodies, and the morticians who've gone on the record saying what they did to volunteer in this tragedy.


I'm sorry, I thought my post was clear enough. I stated i don't know what to believe because there are a lot of things left unanswered. Sure I could tell myself what to believe and move on but thats not good enough for me. The only thing I can think of right now is had it been my child killed, I'd want to know for sure that the person killed was truly the one behind it and that he was the only one behind it. Has anyone ever came out and answered who that unidentified person was that was arrested/detained from the woods and placed in the front of the police car? Thats where I'd like to start?

To answer your question, I don't believe the kids to still be alive. I believe murders took place. I'm just not so quick to sweep it under the rug without knowing all the facts about all involved. Not sure how you have an issue with wanting the truth to be known. Why would that be considered a self-serving attitude/mindset to have? Do you not require the truth; especially dealing with the killing of innocent kids.

[bluelang]

So no reply from the conspiranuts as to how they had open casket funerals for the dead kids who supposedly aren't dead?

[ChartsandGrafs]

I'm sorry, I thought my post was clear enough. I stated i don't know what to believe because there are a lot of things left unanswered. Sure I could tell myself what to believe and move on but thats not good enough for me. The only thing I can think of right now is had it been my child killed, I'd want to know for sure that the person killed was truly the one behind it and that he was the only one behind it. Has anyone ever came out and answered who that unidentified person was that was arrested/detained from the woods and placed in the front of the police car? Thats where I'd like to start?

To answer your question, I don't believe the kids to still be alive. I believe murders took place. I'm just not so quick to sweep it under the rug without knowing all the facts about all involved. Not sure how you have an issue with wanting the truth to be known. Why would that be considered a self-serving attitude/mindset to have? Do you not require the truth; especially dealing with the killing of innocent kids.

Dude, just stop. You're not supposed to ask questions. You're supposed to just accept whatever explanation you're given. Your government wouldn't lie or deceive you, except all those others times it did. This time it's different, though. They're telling you the truth. And no, there's no hidden agenda involved. They only want your guns to "protect the children". Never mind the fact that your government is drone-bombing and murdering countless children overseas in the laughably phoney War on Terror. That's different, you see. Those children are brown. They don't count.

Stop thinking and obey.

[ChartsandGrafs]

So no reply from the conspiranuts as to how they had open casket funerals for the dead kids who supposedly aren't dead?

How do you know who killed them? How do you know what the true motive was? How do you know who was and wasn't involved?

[DeanMeadGator]

This is really, really, really insulting to the families and victims. Please stop immediately.

:yes:Insulting, insensitive, painful and outrageous.

[Tebowism0823]

Dude, just stop. You're not supposed to ask questions. You're supposed to just accept whatever explanation you're given. Your government wouldn't lie or deceive you, expect all those others times it did. This time it's different, though. They're telling you the truth. And no, there's no hidden agenda involved. They only want your guns to "protect the children". Never mind the fact that your government is drone-bombing and murdering countless children overseas in the laughably phoney War on Terror. That's different, you see. Those children are brown. They don't count.

Stop thinking and obey.

I knew I missed something that 2nd day of school

[gatorev12]

[QUOTE=Tebowism0823;6317445]I'm sorry, I thought my post was clear enough. I stated i don't know what to believe because there are a lot of things left unanswered. Sure I could tell myself what to believe and move on but thats not good enough for me. The only thing I can think of right now is had it been my child killed, I'd want to know for sure that the person killed was truly the one behind it and that he was the only one behind it. Has anyone ever came out and answered who that unidentified person was that was arrested/detained from the woods and placed in the front of the police car? Thats where I'd like to start?


We know the who (Adam Lanza), what (shot 26 people, including 20 children), where (Newton, CT), and when (Dec 14 at 9:30ish). We don't know the why because the guy shot himself--and, indeed, not sure there really is a "why" that will ever make sense to rationale human individuals. Deranged psychotic individuals exist in this world and occasionally do crazy things. Unless you're trying to deny that, then there shouldn't be much reason to deny or doubt that it's possible for events to have unfolded exactly as reported.

Everything else has pretty much already been de-bunked or answered in a pretty rational way. Even your "starting place" is a non-starter. When there's a report of a shooting, police officers will likely arrest/detain anyone in the vicinity who's "suspicious." If their story checks out and there's no reason to suspect they had anything to do with it, the Constitution mandates they be let go. It isn't mandatory to release information on who that person is/was out of privacy protections.

To answer your question, I don't believe the kids to still be alive. I believe murders took place. I'm just not so quick to sweep it under the rug without knowing all the facts about all involved. Not sure how you have an issue with wanting the truth to be known. Why would that be considered a self-serving attitude/mindset to have? Do you not require the truth; especially dealing with the killing of innocent kids.


So the murders took place
--do you believe Adam Lanza was involved?
--do you believe the Newton Police and Connecticut State police are covering up information?
--if so, why?
--why do you think local and state cops (many of whom have family and children--and many of the local cops could possibly have known people at the school) would be so willing to go along with a conspiracy when children were murdered?
--why would the media cover up information? What's the juicier story: exposing a massive conspiracy involving all levels of government or advancing an anti-gun agenda?

Working through the logical answers to the questions should lend most reasonable people to conclude that if one were to believe a mass conspiracy--there leads to ever-more questions, most of which stretch into the realm of the fantastical and completely implausible.

So no, blindly accepting the story given is the furthest thing on my mind. Blindly accepting a conspiracy theory with fantastical allegations and absolutely no proof is also the further thing on my mind.

[tec68]

Sounds like a professionally orchestrated hit to me.

Professionals never leave surviving witnesses, if they can help it.

So how many guns were being fired at once?

[tec68]

Exactly.



+1. You can make anything into a fantastical "conspiracy" if you want to. Most conspiracy theories that are out there are pretty fantastical, but the levels of delusion it must take to believe Sandy Hook was a conspiracy are truly unfathomable.

If the goal was to make guns less accessible, then this "plan" was a miserable failure. Gun sales have been at record levels for weeks--and good luck being able to buy any ammunition at most stores.

My dad, brother, sister, stepmom, and myself all bought handguns.

[tec68]

OK, it's settled then. No school kid ever had access to cell phone, and every teacher/adult is sane, rational and logical. Nobody has any 15 min of fame aspirations and we live in a perfect world. Thanks for clearing this up.

I don't know too many 9 year olds if any with phones, much less 6 year olds. I am also sure that the teachers would have been trying to protect the children over taking out their phone and videoing it.

Fight or Flight bro.

[ChartsandGrafs]

So how many guns were being fired at once?

I don't know, ask the government.

They're the ones covering up all the evidence.

[Tebowism0823]

We obviously have a difference of opinion. I just have a hard time taking the first explanation. There's still, regardless of what you believe, a lot of questions and events that need answering. You keep talking about debunking but who's doing the supposed debunking?

[tec68]

I don't know, ask the government.

They're the ones covering up all the evidence.

I was just asking an honest question.

[bluelang]

It must be wonderful to run free in the world of possibility, rather than be shackled down here with we who live in the land of probability.

[ChartsandGrafs]

I was just asking an honest question.

Likewise. I was just answering honestly.

[kafdmd]

Nice compilation that has gone viral on facebook:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Wx9GxXYKx_8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[kafdmd]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OZCos8cXiWY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


AG Holder met with CT governor on plan to reduce gun violence two weeks before Sandy Hook shooting 13 Jan 2013 Attorney General Eric Holder discussing gun violence 27 Nov 2012 Gun violence in Connecticut's cities is what's bringing U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to the state of Connecticut today. Holder and Governor Dannel Malloy (D) unveiled "Project Longevity," a plan to reduce gun violence in Connecticut's biggest cities, at a news conference in New Haven. "With the launch of Project Longevity we're opening a new chapter in the fight against crime," Holder said. Project Longevity is first being launched in New Haven followed by Hartford and Bridgeport. The project is being funded by different sources federally and locally... Other participating Justice Department agencies in Project Longevity include the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the U.S. Marshals Service.

[kafdmd]

Notice how the one "professional" law enforcement guy is carrying the rifle and of course the two girls interview. More from bizarro land.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xGwQL-e4VzM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ChartsandGrafs]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/OZCos8cXiWY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


AG Holder met with CT governor on plan to reduce gun violence two weeks before Sandy Hook shooting 13 Jan 2013 Attorney General Eric Holder discussing gun violence 27 Nov 2012 Gun violence in Connecticut's cities is what's bringing U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to the state of Connecticut today. Holder and Governor Dannel Malloy (D) unveiled "Project Longevity," a plan to reduce gun violence in Connecticut's biggest cities, at a news conference in New Haven. "With the launch of Project Longevity we're opening a new chapter in the fight against crime," Holder said. Project Longevity is first being launched in New Haven followed by Hartford and Bridgeport. The project is being funded by different sources federally and locally... Other participating Justice Department agencies in Project Longevity include the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the U.S. Marshals Service.

LOL, "playing itself out in our state".

Yeah, that's not suspicious at all. I imagine he wasn't supposed to say something like that on camera.

[Gatoragman]

Just read this entire thread.
First I am by no means a believer in most of the conspiracy theories that float around.
This story though has alot of unanswered questions with some video backup, that causes me to wonder could it have been staged?
Did they not find the rifle in the car?
Reported that 4 hand guns found.
Video of another man in camo handcuffed and on ground after shooting.
The ME didn't know to call it a rifle? Said the long gun and proceeded to tout his knowledge of caliber of bullets but doesn't state any in this description.
The parents on CNN interview showed little grief?
No surviors that were shot, can't hardly believe a 20 year old, first time he shot someone was accurate enough to not allow for any survivors?
I don't know how and can't believe a hoax of this magnatude could be pulled off but sure is alot of strange things that happen and very little coverage of the aftermath just straight to gun control. I am like most and call you conspiracy guys nuts, but this is one that I am having a hard time just believing what is reported when there is so much evidence that cant be accounted for.

[gatorev12]

Just read this entire thread.
First I am by no means a believer in most of the conspiracy theories that float around.
This story though has alot of unanswered questions with some video backup, that causes me to wonder could it have been staged?

Many of your questions have already been answered--with supporting sources from newspaper articles.

Did they not find the rifle in the car?


Don't remember that being a part of the discussion--was it in one of the youtube links?

Reported that 4 hand guns found.


The shooter had multiple guns, that much we do know. In the rush to be the "first" with the story, reporters and journalists will often hound cops with questions--and sometimes a report gets out there that's half truth/half BS because someone, wanting to ham it up for the media and look important, pretends to know an answer when they don't fully know all the facts.

Initial media reports, regardless of the story, usually don't have the full picture accurate and almost always have a thing or two that isn't accurate.

Video of another man in camo handcuffed and on ground after shooting.


If you're a cop, arriving at the scene of a school shooting and there's a guy wandering around outside the school in camo gear...what's the first thing you're going to do?

...and if the guy just happens to be an innocent bystander who's story checks out, should the cops/media trample all over the guy's privacy rights and identify him publicly as being "questioned" in the shooting? At the very minimum, that's inviting a lawsuit and pretty sure no one would be in favor of besmirching the name of an innocent bystander, regardless of what clothing they were wearing.

The ME didn't know to call it a rifle? Said the long gun and proceeded to tout his knowledge of caliber of bullets but doesn't state any in this description.


The medical examiner looked like a bumbling idiot who was clearly unprepared to be thrust into the media spotlight.

...which is about what you'd expect from the ME for a small town in Connecticut. Would the ME from Palm Coast, Florida have responded any differently?

The parents on CNN interview showed little grief?


Only ONE parent's actions have been questioned. The father of one of the girls--who was caught laughing off-camera and then, when going on-camera, looked grief-stricken and sad.

Most of the other family members haven't really been giving public interviews--which, again, is pretty normal. The media might take pictures from a distance, but they rarely shove cameras/microphones into the faces of people wanting to grieve. Most of the parents from the Columbine tragedy didn't give media interviews...same with the parents of the VT shooting--and most of the families from Aurora didn't get 30 second tv spots either.

It takes a pretty callous and self-serving person to demand every single victim's family to go on camera simply to satisfy the tin-foil conspiranuts--the overwhelming majority who would find fault in whatever they had to say anyway since no answer is ever good enough for people suffering from whatever mental anxiety/paranoia it takes to keep seeing people in the shadows behind every event known to man.

No surviors that were shot, can't hardly believe a 20 year old, first time he shot someone was accurate enough to not allow for any survivors?


This has already been addressed earlier in the thread. There were two survivors who had been shot, both adults.

Lanza walked into two classrooms and shot everyone in them multiple times. Questioning the guy's accuracy is a bit preposterous when every single victim was shot between 3-11 times. He clearly wasn't getting head shots on every single person he killed, so this wasn't any "one shot, one kill" going on.

I don't know how and can't believe a hoax of this magnatude could be pulled off but sure is alot of strange things that happen and very little coverage of the aftermath just straight to gun control. I am like most and call you conspiracy guys nuts, but this is one that I am having a hard time just believing what is reported when there is so much evidence that cant be accounted for.


It's still an active (and open) criminal investigation. Not all the evidence has been released just yet--so demanding all the answers is incredibly premature.

Again, the official story covers the who, what, when, where, and how. The only thing it doesn't address is why--and that we will probably never know because the truth died with Adam Lanza.

You seem like a reasonable sort...so I'll ask you a question: the only way a hoax or conspiracy of this nature can be pulled off is with vast amounts of participation from a number of different groups of people. It's pretty reasonable to assume that the entire police force of Newton Connecticut didn't suspiciously join the force within the last two months--most (if not all) of them were probably in the community for several years. Are you postulating that the federal government would have infiltrated the state and local police force, school district employees, Connecticut morticians, and probably a few victims' families as well?

Are you really prepared to take the position that hundreds of people have maintained strict cover and absolute silence in order to effect the murders of 26 people?

[Tebowism0823]

nm

[tec68]

Just read this entire thread.
First I am by no means a believer in most of the conspiracy theories that float around.
This story though has alot of unanswered questions with some video backup, that causes me to wonder could it have been staged?
Did they not find the rifle in the car?
Reported that 4 hand guns found.
Video of another man in camo handcuffed and on ground after shooting.
The ME didn't know to call it a rifle? Said the long gun and proceeded to tout his knowledge of caliber of bullets but doesn't state any in this description.
The parents on CNN interview showed little grief?
No surviors that were shot, can't hardly believe a 20 year old, first time he shot someone was accurate enough to not allow for any survivors?
I don't know how and can't believe a hoax of this magnatude could be pulled off but sure is alot of strange things that happen and very little coverage of the aftermath just straight to gun control. I am like most and call you conspiracy guys nuts, but this is one that I am having a hard time just believing what is reported when there is so much evidence that cant be accounted for.

That is what bothers me. Its not just one family but a majority of the people interviewed were not crying or anything.

[cocodrilo]

What's this about no wounded survivors? I recall that an assistant principal was wounded at the time the principal was shot. She didn't survive? And if so, has she been interviewed? Has she told anyone anything?

[Emmitto]

This appears to be a good one-stop website on the "Sandy Hook Hoax":

http://www.sandyhookhoax.com/

The icing on the cake would be if this website was created before the massacre occurred.

It was created on 12/21/12, for an obvious reason, as creator Jay Johnson explains:

Noting that he started the website on “12/21/12” he explained, “since I am the New Age Messiah, with my Look Your Heart in the Mirror™ as the new revelation from the Goddess Tefnut, aka Ma’at, of Egypt, I thought the date was significant.”

http://www.salon.com/2013/01/09/the_worst_sandy_hook_conspiracy_theory_yet/

[Spurffelbow833]

That is what bothers me. Its not just one family but a majority of the people interviewed were not crying or anything.

The conspiracy theorists are putting atropine in the drinking water.

[Gatoragman]

Rev, you ask the same questions of me that cause me to highly doubt a conspiracy of this magnatude could be pulled off. So I am by no means saying that I think this was a total CIA type event, just alot of questions that have not been answered, maybe I'm premature though, and seems like very little coverage since, and all coverage and discussion is about gun control. Just alot of information that makes me think and try to find more info, not pointing a finger, or as far out as some just wonder the possibilty.
I look at how the media seems to mold things to there likes and I start believing this could be a possibility. But then I look at what has been put out by the same kind of people about 9/11 and I think there nuts, so just looking for answers

[Lawdog88]

What's this about no wounded survivors? I recall that an assistant principal was wounded at the time the principal was shot. She didn't survive? And if so, has she been interviewed? Has she told anyone anything?


My recollection as well. TV reports showed her being placed in an ambulance.

Edit, from Wiki: Natalie Hammond, lead teacher in the meeting room, pressed her body against the door to keep it closed. Lanza shot Hammond through the door, in her leg and arm. She was later treated at Danbury Hospital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danbury_Hospital).<sup id="cite_ref-wsj5_25-1" class="reference">[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting#cite_note-wsj5-25)</sup><sup id="cite_ref-CBS3_27-0" class="reference">[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting#cite_note-CBS3-27)</sup> The police reported that a second adult was wounded in the attack, but that individual has not been identified.<sup id="cite_ref-Police:_Second_person_injured_in_Connecticut_schoo l_shooting_survived_6-1" class="reference">[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting#cite_note-Police:_Second_person_injured_in_Connecticut_schoo l_shooting_survived-6)</sup>

[cocodrilo]

Edit, from Wiki: Natalie Hammond, lead teacher in the meeting room, pressed her body against the door to keep it closed. Lanza shot Hammond through the door, in her leg and arm.

Well there doesn't seem to be a single damn thing about the Sandy Hook story that is not self-contradictory. I Googled Natalie Hammond, and the news story I found was that Hammond, the principal and the other woman ran out of the room and confronted Lanza face-to-face. He shot Hammond and she then hid behind a door. She did not stay in the room and Lanza did not shoot her through the door as Wiki states.

So does anyone know how Hammond got shot? Has she said a word to anyone about meeting Lanza face-to-face? Another account said she was in seclusion to protect her privacy. Is she still being protected? Googling this woman doesn't get very much, except of course contradiction.

Anderson Cooper went to Newtown and wallowed in the misery there for a week on TV. He was back there wallowing again last night. Has he said a word about where Natalie Hammond is or has he tried to talk to her, since he has talked to everyone else there except possibly the dogcatcher?

[cocodrilo]

So I'm curious as to who the second wounded person was in addition to Hammond, right? So I go back to the news stories and find that the second wounded person, a school employee, has not been identified. Seems strange, right? So I figure, well, these are early accounts (like December 16, 17, etc.). So I go to Wiki, which people presumably keep up to date, right? The latest footnote I see there is dated January 7. And what does Wiki say? The second survivor has not been identified.

Anyone want to guess what the hell is going on? Or maybe you can find a source for us that identifies the second survivor. I find it difficult to believe that they are still trying to get her identify out of her, or that the school doesn't know who the hell she is.

[bluelang]

You know.. they did the same shit with Columbine. It's sad. The people who inculcate these conspiracy theories are looking for attention, and you are giving it to them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF_LFw1kopY

[WESGATORS]

If it's fair to ask "are we being had" with regard to the notion that the reported facts may be intended to pull one over on the public. Isn't it also fair to ask if some of the conspiracy theories are intent on doing the same thing? The one site posted above sandyhookhoak.com appears to be a gimmick to sell $5 bumper stickers.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[cocodrilo]

You know.. they did the same shit with Columbine. It's sad. The people who inculcate these conspiracy theories are looking for attention, and you are giving it to them.


"The people who inculcate these conspiracy theories" ask questions that those who call them "sad" apparently can't answer.

Like who was the second survivor? A simple damn question that, as far as I know, doesn't have the slightest thing to do with national security.

People like Anderson Cooper hang around Newtown to talk to anyone they can, or just to drink in the grief, but they don't have the slightest interest in talking to either survivor, one who allegedly met Lanza face-to-face, and the other who apparently has not even been identified to this day.

I wonder if the unidentified survivor owned the car that was reportedly found at the school with bullet holes in it. (The car was outside the school, not in it.) But it's "sad" to wonder.

[WESGATORS]

I think a lot of the inaccuracies are due more to the media trying to jump the gun than a conspiracy. We see this all the time in our football world with recruiting and coaching hires, why wouldn't the same propensity to make mistakes apply to other areas of journalism? There seems to be a lack of responsible journalism because media entities tend to value being first more than being accurate.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[cocodrilo]

I think a lot of the inaccuracies are due more to the media trying to jump the gun than a conspiracy.

I would think that too. But it doesn't explain things like the identity of the second survivor being kept secret (and the other survivor being unavailable). What does that have to do with "inaccuracies"?

[92gator]

"The people who inculcate these conspiracy theories" ask questions that those who call them "sad" apparently can't answer.

Like who was the second survivor? A simple damn question that, as far as I know, doesn't have the slightest thing to do with national security.

People like Anderson Cooper hang around Newtown to talk to anyone they can, or just to drink in the grief, but they don't have the slightest interest in talking to either survivor, one who allegedly met Lanza face-to-face, and the other who apparently has not even been identified to this day.

I wonder if the unidentified survivor owned the car that was reportedly found at the school with bullet holes in it. (The car was outside the school, not in it.) But it's "sad" to wonder.

Excellent rebuttal; and a very interesting question you pose...

:huh:

[92gator]

What say ye, Bluelang?

What of the 2nd survivor?

What's with the dad laughing before the interview, and other observations re. the general demeanor?

note: kindly spare us the columbine--or any other conspiracy bs--and avoid emotional pleas along the lines of "...oh this is sooo hurtuful to the families...", and address the substance of the observations--that's all this thread is about--trying to make sense of some serious senselessness.

b/t/w: anyone else think of Annikan Skywalker slaughering the younglings in SW III, when they heard this story?

Just say'n...

[bluelang]

Not knowing the second survivor is completely irrelevant, as is the "dad's behavior." It has no effect on what did or didn't happen. The important point here is that the probability of a government conspiracy - which is mathematically zero - doesn't increase because some things can't be explained. Or, more to the point, because YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. This is fundamentally the same argument about evolution, God.. just about any philosophical question ever invented has hinged on this same human distaste for cognitive dissonance and absence of confirmation bias. The fact remains - the people who propagate this shit want attention, and the people who give it to them lack fortitude. Gravitating to conspiracy theorists is a character flaw.

If someone acting weird in front of a camera and someone else wanting privacy are more compelling to you than the reams and reams of documentation about what DID occur, then, frankly, you're probably just looking for shit to be upset about.

There have been, what, three, four mass shootings since SH? Are they also conspiracies? Why not? What exactly do you think the conspiracy is?

Some idiots on here have postulated that the "victims" are still alive. They are not. They are dead and buried. If you don't think that denying that these people died is extraordinarily ****ed up behavior - even for the internet! - then you have problems.

Look, it's up to the conspiracy theorists to prove it was a conspiracy. The rest of us can go on living in reality. But in the meantime, I'm not sparing anyone anything. Denying human suffering with an excuse of "looking for the truth" makes you a bad person.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Not knowing the second survivor is completely irrelevant, as is the "dad's behavior." It has no effect on what did or didn't happen. The important point here is that the probability of a government conspiracy - which is mathematically zero - doesn't increase because some things can't be explained.

How do you know it wasn't a government conspiracy? Much of the evidence is still being withheld, so how do you know?

The fact remains - the people who propagate this shit want attention, and the people who give it to them lack fortitude. Gravitating to conspiracy theorists is a character flaw.

So then you have a character flaw, right? After all, here you are, gravitating to conspiracy theorists in this thread and others.

Maybe it's you who wants attention?

If someone acting weird in front of a camera and someone else wanting privacy are more compelling to you than the reams and reams of documentation about what DID occur, then, frankly, you're probably just looking for shit to be upset about.

What reams of documentation? You mean the documentation provided by the "authorities", who are in a position to fabricate as much documentation as they need?

There have been, what, three, four mass shootings since SH? Are they also conspiracies? Why not? What exactly do you think the conspiracy is?

They certainly could be conspiracies, you don't know.

Why are so hostile to those asking questions?

Some idiots on here have postulated that the "victims" are still alive. They are not. They are dead and buried. If you don't think that denying that these people died is extraordinarily ****ed up behavior - even for the internet! - then you have problems.

Even if we accept the idea that all the victims are dead and buried, that wouldn't necessarily mean this wasn't a false flag PSYOP on the American public.

Look, it's up to the conspiracy theorists to prove it was a conspiracy.

No, it's up to the government bootlickers to prove the official story is correct, but for some reason they can't do that.

The rest of us can go on living in reality. But in the meantime, I'm not sparing anyone anything. Denying human suffering with an excuse of "looking for the truth" makes you a bad person.

So then why are you standing on the graves of the dead to deflection questions away from possible perpetrators?

[ChartsandGrafs]

This Sandy Hook story gets more and more interesting by the day. Check this out:

A man with a gun who was spotted in the woods near the school on the day of the incident was an off-duty tactical squad police officer from another town, according to the source.

http://newtownbee.com/News/2012-12-27__14-58-27/Police%20Union%20Seeks%20Funding%20For%20Trauma%20 Treatment

What was an armed, tactical ops police office guy doing in the woods that day? It doesn't sound like he was part of the first-responder team. It sounds more like he was already there, in place for some purpose. Was there a drill taking place at the school that day, kind of like the drill that took place on 9/11? And could it have been this guy described here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSzKd5867UY

That would explain why he was in the front seat of the police car and not the back like a regular mundane. But if it was that guy, why was he wearing camouflage and what was he doing hiding in the woods?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvyyaJpD4j4

[cocodrilo]

Not knowing the second survivor is completely irrelevant.

Unbelievable. So you can't give us one plausible reason why one of the only two survivors of one of the worst massacres in U.S. history remains unidentified, as if "irrelevant" to the historical record and human interest.

I wonder, if I was that second survivor, if I would feel like I'm irrelevant, to the point that no one cares who I am, what I saw, or how I got shot. Not even Anderson Cooper gives a shit.

Now let me give you a very plausible hypothetical reason for this mystery. Suppose this unidentified victim was shot by someone other than Adam Lanz, or saw someone other than Adam Lanz shooting? That is something the government would not want to have known, isn't it? Therefore this person remains unidentified and unavailable. Almost as if the government wishes she were dead. And who is to say that she isn't?

In any case, if this victim saw another shooter, then we have a cover-up. (Yes, there are children dead, yes there is genuine grief, but who did all the shooting? If only there had been something like surveillance video inside the schoolhouse. Not that we'd ever see it.)

Is there any reason to believe this is so? Yes, another prominent red flag. When there is a government cover-up in such a horrendous case (e.g. JFK, 9/11), the lapdog corporate media (Anderson "keeping them honest" Cooper et al) goes into complicity mode, becoming strangely disinterested or incurious about glaring unanswered questions, such as who survived the shooting, as if such questions are simply irrelevant.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Not even Anderson Cooper gives a shit.



It's important to point out that Anderson Cooper spent some time with the CIA earlier in his career, right before he went to work in the media. Cooper very well may be an Operation Mockingbird media plant put in place to control the public narrative of important events.

[ChartsandGrafs]

LOL @ Anderson Cooper's feigned indignation at the "anonymous internet trolls" and "conspiracy theorists" who refuse to accept the nonsensical official story. This is textbook propaganda:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwpaSmSIsTA

[cocodrilo]

It's important to point out that Anderson Cooper spent some time with the CIA earlier in his career.

I didn't know that. He may well be CIA-controlled, but I don't think he would knowingly be an accessory to a massacre of schoolchildren, and then be inhuman enough to spend a week interviewing the parents. A certain type of people have to be contracted for the massacre of innocent people, and God knows where their taskmasters find them.

[ChartsandGrafs]

I didn't know that. He may well be CIA-controlled, but I don't think he would knowingly be an accessory to a massacre of schoolchildren, and then be inhuman enough to spend a week interviewing the parents.

If you believe government agents can be used to orchestrate and commit assassinations, hits, and false flag operations, what would prevent government agents from being used in the media to control the narrative in the aftermath?

Anderson Cooper doesn't have to be an accessory to the Sandy Hook shootings to be able to perform his Mockingbird media function, assuming that's what his role is.

[cocodrilo]

Anderson Cooper doesn't have to be an accessory to the Sandy Hook shootings to perform his Mockingbird media function.

I know that. And I'm saying I don't think he was an accessory. He's doing his media job, part of which is of course to pooh-pooh conspiracy theories.

I know there are tweeters here. Cooper asks people to tweet him every night on his show. How about someone tweet him and ask him about the second survivor and why we haven't been told who she is? Any answer would be interesting.

[GatorAbe7]

So after being gone for a week, I am just getting a lot at this thread now, and I gotta say - it's one of the most unnerving I've come across on Too Hot.

Is anyone else getting the idea that if they google "Sandy Hook Conspiracy" their IP will be identified by the GOV?

[cocodrilo]

If this was a black-ops job with a patsy, then I think the conspirators themselves could be helping spread nonsense about the whole thing being a staged hoax with actors.

Just like the CIA loves to see Hollywood making movies about the Mafia killing JFK. Any conspiracy theory is fine and dandy as long as it points the wrong way, or so wacky it discredits all conspiracy theories in the process.

[Emmitto]

Unbelievable. So you can't give us one plausible reason why one of the only two survivors of one of the worst massacres in U.S. history remains unidentified, as if "irrelevant" to the historical record and human interest.

I wonder, if I was that second survivor, if I would feel like I'm irrelevant, to the point that no one cares who I am, what I saw, or how I got shot. Not even Anderson Cooper gives a shit.

Now let me give you a very plausible hypothetical reason for this mystery. Suppose this unidentified victim was shot by someone other than Adam Lanz, or saw someone other than Adam Lanz shooting? That is something the government would not want to have known, isn't it? Therefore this person remains unidentified and unavailable. Almost as if the government wishes she were dead. And who is to say that she isn't?

In any case, if this victim saw another shooter, then we have a cover-up. (Yes, there are children dead, yes there is genuine grief, but who did all the shooting? If only there had been something like surveillance video inside the schoolhouse. Not that we'd ever see it.)

Is there any reason to believe this is so? Yes, another prominent red flag. When there is a government cover-up in such a horrendous case (e.g. JFK, 9/11), the lapdog corporate media (Anderson "keeping them honest" Cooper et al) goes into complicity mode, becoming strangely disinterested or incurious about glaring unanswered questions, such as who survived the shooting, as if such questions are simply irrelevant.

So a person who doesn't want to be exposed to a media feeding frenzy, who may have witnessed horrific child murders, and was in any event involved in a horrific incident (assuming you accept the "tale" that kids did in fact die) but tells investigators what they saw, that's less believable than the alternatives?

Is it that hard to imagine that a person wouldn't want to be in this position? When it finally gets out he/she will just be inserted into the conspiracy matrix, as has already happened here.

This person is not obligated to out themselves for the contentment of Internet conspiracy sleuths. It's possible that what he/she witnessed dropped satisfying strangers' curiosities down the priority list a bit.

I don't think that's very outlandish. Do you?

[cocodrilo]

So a person who doesn't want to be exposed to a media feeding frenzy, who may have witnessed horrific child murders, and was in any event involved in a horrific incident (assuming you accept the "tale" that kids did in fact die) but tells investigators what they saw, that's less believable than the alternatives?

Is it that hard to imagine that a person wouldn't want to be in this position? When it finally gets out he/she will just be inserted into the conspiracy matrix, as has already happened here.

This person is not obligated to out themselves for the contentment of Internet conspiracy sleuths. It's possible that what he/she witnessed dropped satisfying strangers' curiosities down the priority list a bit.

I don't think that's very outlandish. Do you?

I don't think the person not wanting exposure is the explanation. Why? Because the media would say so. The media are people, and people have interest, they are innately curious. That the media would be totally silent on this person, as if she doesn't exist, is preposterous unless it states why it is silent. All someone like Anderson Cooper would have to say is, "This survivor does not want to be identified, and her wishes are being respected." Is that so hard? Have you heard anyone say anything like that? If you have, then your proposed explanation is probably right. But what I hear is total silence about this person, which is unnatural and suspicious on its face.

[bluelang]

Unbelievable. So you can't give us one plausible reason why one of the only two survivors of one of the worst massacres in U.S. history remains unidentified, as if "irrelevant" to the historical record and human interest.


Even if that person didn't exist and was totally made up or a mistake - it STILL wouldn't be evidence of a conspiracy. Do you understand that someone has to go find evidence of a conspiracy before any rational person will take it seriously?

You guys are flat out damaged goods.

There are two injured, unidentified survivors, btw.

[gatorev12]

So a person who doesn't want to be exposed to a media feeding frenzy, who may have witnessed horrific child murders, and was in any event involved in a horrific incident (assuming you accept the "tale" that kids did in fact die) but tells investigators what they saw, that's less believable than the alternatives?

Is it that hard to imagine that a person wouldn't want to be in this position? When it finally gets out he/she will just be inserted into the conspiracy matrix, as has already happened here.

This person is not obligated to out themselves for the contentment of Internet conspiracy sleuths. It's possible that what he/she witnessed dropped satisfying strangers' curiosities down the priority list a bit.

I don't think that's very outlandish. Do you?

Glad I'd read through the end to see that someone had made this point. NO ONE is under an obligation to come forward and speak to the press. If they want to remain anonymous and tell the police not to disclose their identity for personal safety/privacy reasons, the police have to honor that--or be sued.

The only other thing left to add is the very-real possibility that conspiracy theorists themselves are to blame for someone wanting to remain anonymous. Many witnesses to 9-11 have complained about the incessant harassment "troofers" have subjected them to in the years since--especially the eyewitnesses to the Pennsylvania crash.

Whoever the victim is, it's entirely likely that her family or attorney advised her to keep her name out of it lest they be subjected to the same harassment.

[bluelang]

That the media would be totally silent on this person, as if she doesn't exist, is preposterous unless it states why it is silent.

Does the media regularly identify rape victims without permission? In about 4 minutes of searching I found almost 200 references to the two injured victims. I also found numerous eyewitness accounts from non-injured survivors.

[bluelang]

One more thing: for the rest of the country, this story has long since left the news cycle. It solely in the hands of the nutjobs and those precious few defenders of human dignity on the interwebs at this point.

[AmericaFirst]

If you believe government agents can be used to orchestrate and commit assassinations, hits, and false flag operations, what would prevent government agents from being used in the media to control the narrative in the aftermath?

Anderson Cooper doesn't have to be an accessory to the Sandy Hook shootings to be able to perform his Mockingbird media function, assuming that's what his role is.



Anderson Cooper is also a Zionist and a gun-control advocate as well. For a heinous and despicable crime (which this would be) the simple fact is none of these people act like a crime has been committed. Their emotions are fake and yes, it does matter when emotions appear to be fake. But that's just one factor. The picture, the car, the guy running away, etc. are all parts which make this appear to be a hoax. I'm glad that video is getting so many views. It's at 5+ million now.

[gatorev12]

LOL @ Anderson Cooper's feigned indignation at the "anonymous internet trolls" and "conspiracy theorists" who refuse to accept the nonsensical official story. This is textbook propaganda:


LOL @ your feigned indignation/laughter at the Disney Corporation being the master puppeteer and blindly accepting the "official propaganda" that they're a cutesy, family-oriented company that promotes family values and good behavior.

Disney apologists...sheesh

[AmericaFirst]

One more thing: for the rest of the country, this story has long since left the news cycle. It solely in the hands of the nutjobs and those precious few defenders of human dignity on the interwebs at this point.



Funny, those of us that see people defending the government (when they're known to commit false flag operations) are the nutjobs in our eyes.


The fact that you're defending this despicable man while he laughs one day after his daughter has "supposedly" been murdered and then gets into the grieving act for the cameras makes me sick.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpTSyqToq30

[bluelang]

The only other thing left to add is the very-real possibility that conspiracy theorists themselves are to blame for someone wanting to remain anonymous. Many witnesses to 9-11 have complained about the incessant harassment "troofers" have subjected them to in the years since--especially the eyewitnesses to the Pennsylvania crash.

Whoever the victim is, it's entirely likely that her family or attorney advised her to keep her name out of it lest they be subjected to the same harassment.

And to EXACTLY your point, the news is now about how assholes are pestering the victim's families. NICE JOB, INTERNET. THIS IS WHY WE CANT HAVE NICE THINGS. :yes:LEAVE THEM THE **** ALONE.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/15/16529522-grandfather-who-comforted-sandy-hook-elementary-kids-says-truthers-are-targeting-him?lite

[cocodrilo]

Even if that person didn't exist and was totally made up or a mistake - it STILL wouldn't be evidence of a conspiracy.


Of course it wouldn't. Do you have some evidence that she doesn't exist? If you don't, then you're just talking gibberish.


There are two injured, unidentified survivors, btw.

Then that's even worse. May we have a link? I have seen no mention anywhere of a second unidentified injured survivor.

[bluelang]

Funny, those of us that see people defending the government (when they're known to commit false flag operations) are the nutjobs in our eyes.

I've never denied the concept of the false flag operation. I believe we've witnessed several in the last few years alone.

But this wasn't one of them.

[bluelang]

Then that's even worse. May we have a link? I have seen no mention anywhere of a second unidentified injured survivor.

Yes, you certainly may have a link.

[cocodrilo]

Yes, you certainly may have a link.

So thanks for nothing.

[bluelang]

So thanks for nothing.

FFS.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&q=sandy+hook&oq=sandy+hook&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j0l2j0i3l2j0l5j43i400.2760.4071.0.4239.10. 7.0.3.3.0.108.509.6j1.7.0...0.0...1ac.1.U60Du47Tys E#q=sandy+hook+two+survivors+unidentified&hl=en&tbo=d&gl=us&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=Ly72UM_THsnAiwKGxIC4DA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41018144,d.cGE&fp=269cab3f92e9a839&biw=1229&bih=897

[gatorev12]

Rev, you ask the same questions of me that cause me to highly doubt a conspiracy of this magnatude could be pulled off. So I am by no means saying that I think this was a total CIA type event, just alot of questions that have not been answered, maybe I'm premature though, and seems like very little coverage since, and all coverage and discussion is about gun control. Just alot of information that makes me think and try to find more info, not pointing a finger, or as far out as some just wonder the possibilty.
I look at how the media seems to mold things to there likes and I start believing this could be a possibility. But then I look at what has been put out by the same kind of people about 9/11 and I think there nuts, so just looking for answers

Thanks for your reply. Wanting answers is normal--the first question I asked upon hearing the news was: what kind of rage must someone feel inside to react in this way? what drives a person to murder 20 innocent children--pulling the trigger again and again, seeing the bullets hit home?

Alas, that is a question none of us will ever have an answer to.

But many of the "questions" that people have asked about this are fairly easily explained. I've no doubt many people asking questions are well-meaning--just as I have little doubt many are just completely delusional, narcissistic attention-seekers.

Like 9/11, once a conspiracy theory has started, it's almost impossible to kill--even stuff that has credible evidence to support the official theory. One common lie that's sprung up regarding Sandy Hook is the "lack of survivors" and questioning how one kid could rack up such an impressive body count and not leave a single survivor.

Until one digs deeper and realizes there were several survivors. Two wounded adults (one identified, one not)...and a 6 year old girl from one of the classes who survived by playing dead:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9750471/Connecticut-school-shooting-six-year-old-stayed-alive-by-playing-dead.html

The unnamed child was the sole of survivor of a class of 15, it emerged today, and burst from the school "covered in blood from head to toe".
As she was reunited with her distraught mother, the little girl said: "Mummy, I'm okay, but all my friends are dead", according to Rev Jim Solomon, a local pastor.
Asked how the child described the killer, Rev Solomon told ABC News: "She saw someone who she felt was angry, who she felt was mad."

[cocodrilo]

FFS.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&gl=us&tbm=nws&q=sandy+hook&oq=sandy+hook&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j0l2j0i3l2j0l5j43i400.2760.4071.0.4239.10. 7.0.3.3.0.108.509.6j1.7.0...0.0...1ac.1.U60Du47Tys E#q=sandy+hook+two+survivors+unidentified&hl=en&tbo=d&gl=us&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=Ly72UM_THsnAiwKGxIC4DA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41018144,d.cGE&fp=269cab3f92e9a839&biw=1229&bih=897

Thanks. I assume that one of the two wounded survivors mentioned in that first story listed is Natalie Hammond. Do you have other information? The next story after that is the Wiki article, which names Hammond and refers to another survivor not identified, the person who's being discussed here.

[AmericaFirst]

Thanks for your reply. Wanting answers is normal--the first question I asked upon hearing the news was: what kind of rage must someone feel inside to react in this way? what drives a person to murder 20 innocent children--pulling the trigger again and again, seeing the bullets hit home?

Alas, that is a question none of us will ever have an answer to.

But many of the "questions" that people have asked about this are fairly easily explained. I've no doubt many people asking questions are well-meaning--just as I have little doubt many are just completely delusional, narcissistic attention-seekers.

Like 9/11, once a conspiracy theory has started, it's almost impossible to kill--even stuff that has credible evidence to support the official theory. One common lie that's sprung up regarding Sandy Hook is the "lack of survivors" and questioning how one kid could rack up such an impressive body count and not leave a single survivor.

Until one digs deeper and realizes there were several survivors. Two wounded adults (one identified, one not)...and a 6 year old girl from one of the classes who survived by playing dead:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9750471/Connecticut-school-shooting-six-year-old-stayed-alive-by-playing-dead.html




If this wasn't a hoax, I've never seen so many adults that care so little for their kids. Nothing but fake emotions from all of them and in Parker's case, apparently he thinks it's a big joke. All that needs to be said. Luckily, I believe it's a hoax and all of the kids are alive.

[gatorev12]

Anderson Cooper is also a Zionist

Yes...those dastardly Jews raising their evil fists again, eh "America First?"

Serious question: does everyone who disagree to you automatically become a "Jew," regardless of what their state religious beliefs are?

[AmericaFirst]

Yes...those dastardly Jews raising their evil fists again, eh "America First?"

Serious question: does everyone who disagree to you automatically become a "Jew," regardless of what their state religious beliefs are?



A Zionist doesn't have to be Jewish but you knew that already.



Zionist = Neocon



But it's always funny coming from you since you check under your bed every night for those "dastardly" Iranians IE: the group that hasn't started a war in hundreds of years.

[ChartsandGrafs]

I've never denied the concept of the false flag operation. I believe we've witnessed several in the last few years alone.

But this wasn't one of them.

How can you tell?

[chompalot]

If you think the comments by the conspiracy theorists on this thread are nutty you ought to read some of the idiotic comments about the shooting on this link. (http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas/showthread.php?t=254037&page=12) Pitiful wackos who deserve zero respect.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Yes...those dastardly Jews raising their evil fists again, eh "America First?"

Serious question: does everyone who disagree to you automatically become a "Jew," regardless of what their state religious beliefs are?


LOL, you don't even know what Zionism is. You think a Zionist is a Jew.

No wonder you're so lost in these discussions.