Ok liberals I am giving you the floor....what do you want your America to look like?

[dadx4]

Be honest please. If you could shape your America to be exactly the way you want it, what would it look like. Also to be fair, once everyone is done, I will do a "what my America would look like." That way I am being PC....lol

[Minister_of_Information]

http://www.9linton.com/images%20BLOGS/PyongyangParade.jpg

Kidding.

[corpgator]

Actually, I want you to go first Dad. I'm really interested in what yours would look like.

[wgbgator]

Look, I love a good parade as much as anyone. But I can't get used to calling someone dear leader.

[wgbgator]

I know it's hard for you to believe, but it wouldnt look much different than it does now, just more democratic (lower case) in the workplace and in gov't. I have a limited imagination, and I'm decidely non-utopian, so I'm just gonna go ahead an say slightly more German or Northern European.

[92gator]

After the latest electorial debacle of biblical proportions, I've decided to declare myself liberal. Neo-libby, in fact.

So here's my neo-libby view of America:

All those rich people be made poor, so that they know what the rest of the world has had to endure. Take all their assets, and we give them to: the obama Family; the Clinton family; the pelosi Family; and al gore.

They'll know how we want those assets distributed, and we can trust them to do it.

I want a cel. phone, a new car, my mortgage forgiven, free health car for me and my family, and free college for the kids. I also want to be rich--and I trust Obama, Clinton, pelosi, gore, et. al., will make me rich--comparatively, anyway--because they won't need all that money they fleeced from the rich ppl.

Oh...and I don't want to work anymore. Ever.

That's my America.

Eureka!

[rivergator]

After the latest electorial debacle of biblical proportions, I've decided to declare myself liberal. Neo-libby, in fact.

So here's my neo-libby view of America:

All those rich people be made poor, so that they know what the rest of the world has had to endure. Take all their assets, and we give them to: the obama Family; the Clinton family; the pelosi Family; and al gore.

They'll know how we want those assets distributed, and we can trust them to do it.

I want a cel. phone, a new car, my mortgage forgiven, free health car for me and my family, and free college for the kids. I also want to be rich--and I trust Obama, Clinton, pelosi, gore, et. al., will make me rich--comparatively, anyway--because they won't need all that money they fleeced from the rich ppl.

Oh...and I don't want to work anymore. Ever.

That's my America.

Eureka!

And that's the trouble with threads like this. They quickly devolve into idiocies like this.

[108]

Very serious campaign finance reform will take care of most of what I want

Once our elected officials actually work for the people, the whole "left vs right" thing won't mean as much when big money special interests aren't given such a big microphone

Gov working for the most of us in a fair manner in the most efficient way as possible

Too liberal for you?!?

[92gator]

And that's the trouble with threads like this. They quickly devolve into idiocies like this.

Actually, that's the problem with liberalism--it naturally devolves into the idiotic expectations suggested in my post. But hey, if you're on the receiving end (of the promises, that is), why liberalism is magnificent! Perfectly suited for hypothetical deamland, as called for by the OP!

(and Barry's campaign--which naturally resonates with idiots--which, as it turns out, currently represents a majority voting block...).

So I figure if I can't beat 'em...I'll just join 'em....check my brilliance and work ethic at the door, and become a lazy idiot. :zombie:

Eureka!

[gator421]

The big rock candy mountain.

[wgbgator]

Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen

[wgbgator]

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

[wgbgator]

The big rock candy mountain.

Now if we could just find the jerk who invented work, and hang him. :)

[dudehead]

The 50s and 60s without the institutional gender and racial discrimination. This chart about income and productivity growth shows one of the reasons:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Productivity_and_Real_Median_Family_Income_Growth_ 1947-2009.png


The early 1980s is a clear turning point in some important data, such as, disparity in income growth and growth in public and private debt. For example, here is a pic of historical relative income growth (notice when the income disparity spread began to grow again):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/4056337199_a4620eb2ea.jpg

And here's a pic of our public debt since 1980:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/US_Debt_Trend.svg/463px-US_Debt_Trend.svg.png

[108]

The 50s and 60s without the institutional gender and racial discrimination. This chart about income and productivity growth shows one of the reasons:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Productivity_and_Real_Median_Family_Income_Growth_ 1947-2009.png


The early 1980s is a clear turning point in some important data, such as, disparity in income growth and growth in public and private debt. For example, here is a pic of historical relative income growth (notice when the income disparity spread began to grow again):

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/4056337199_a4620eb2ea.jpg

And here's a pic of our public debt since 1980:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/US_Debt_Trend.svg/463px-US_Debt_Trend.svg.png


Reagan was a puppet for the rich in this regard

Trickle-down has always been a wealth grab upwards, hence the ever growing income disparity

[FrolfGator]

- Tax code cleaned up, simplified. Additional top end brackets. Close loopholes. Capital gains taxes as income.

- Elimination of racial and gender discrimination in industry and academia, such that affirmative action and other EEO policies are no longer needed.

- Smart grid, with majority of energy generation from wind, solar, hydro, and some nuclear. Lots of distributed generation (solar panels on homes and businesses).

- Hard limits on greenhouse gas emissions. Strengthened clean water, clear air, endangered species, endangered habitats laws.

- More investment in STEMS. More investment in education (actual education, not salaries and luxuries for school board and college administrations). Investment in vocational training for students not interested in traditional higher education.

- Single payer healthcare, with a private market for supplemental insurance.

- Corporations are not people, money is not speech. Overturn Citizens United. Campaign finance reform. Religious institutions no longer tax exempt. Trust busting, breaking up companies that are "too big to fail". Stricter corporate ethics regulations (particularly around membership on board of directors).

- SEC oversight of more financial instruments. Break up larger banks. Regulate high-speed trading.

- Light rail/mass transit in population centers. Backbone of high-speed rail between major population centers. More shielded bike lanes and sidewalks.

- Eliminating blue laws. Alcohol sales whenever. Marijuana legalized nationally. Same sex marriage legalized nationally.

- Background checks for private gun sales.

[gatorev12]

Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen

und wenn ihnen die fahigkeit fehlt?

[gs_gator]

what frolf said along with

- computer algorithm generated voting districts

- cut the military in half

- mandate that for every dollar spent on defense a dollar must be spent on infrastructure

- outlaw private ownership of public works, prisons

- mandate that healthcare can never again be a for profit industry

- high speed broadband nationwide

- term limits on the supreme court and federal judges

- review and invalidate patents at every level (think monsanto and iphone round edges)

[gs_gator]

or this should all else fail

link to image (http://kirkstarr.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/6a00c225264172549d0137e0233813860e.jpg)

ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

[dangolegators]

If we could get rid of all the ignorance, much of everything else would take care of itself. So I'd want my America to look like a country with a better educated, more open minded, more intellectually curious populace. Instead, we are looking more and more like an idiocracy.

[MastaG8r]

If we could get rid of all the ignorance, much of everything else would take care of itself. So I'd want my America to look like a country with a better educated, more open minded, more intellectually curious populace. Instead, we are looking more and more like an idiocracy.You mean more open-minded when it comes to respecting other people's viewpoints?

Like for example the point of view that we are all created equal and are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights, and that among those are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? And that the endowment of those rights occurs at the point that a human life begins, which is when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form an altogether new organism called a zygote?

[gs_gator]

no...eggs get no rights

you gotta be a month old or more to pursue happiness and liberty...

Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD. -- Numbers 3:15-16

[MastaG8r]

And that's the trouble with threads like this. They quickly devolve into idiocies like this.There's some truth to that, but the real trouble with threads asking Liberals to articulate their ideology is that so few are capable of doing it. So yeah, that leads to certain Conservatives filling the void with sarcasm. At which point certain Liberals who don't know how to respond to the actual thread topic can at least chime in with the one thing they do know how to do: Complain about the supposed "idiocies" of Conservatives.

[gs_gator]

the statements made by frolf and i, his(hers) stated rather eloquently, have gone unchallenged...

i was going to toss in that old adage about rivers flowing red with conservative blood but since he(she) put forth the effort i chose to abstain

[MichiGator2002]

or this should all else fail

link to image (http://kirkstarr.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/6a00c225264172549d0137e0233813860e.jpg)

ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

The one word in there I recognize actually makes a lot of sense in the context of your suggestions and those you are agreeing with. Big government has a lovecraftian quality.

[Minister_of_Information]

the statements made by frolf and i, his(hers) stated rather eloquently, have gone unchallenged...

Or perhaps they have been ignored. It is a possibility, after all.

[wargunfan]

100% federal income tax rate on incomes above $250,000
Voting at McDonalds drive throughs.
Mandatory Gay studies in all schools.
All private ownership of guns banned.
Gay marriage legal in all states
Government funding of abortions
Fairness Doctrine is law
Talk radio outlawed
Single payer government health insurance
No right to work states
Mandatory union membership
No offshore drilling
No combustion engine automobiles-electric only
Cabinet seat for Planned Parenthood.
All liberal SCOTUS
No Electoral College-popular vote only
No Fox News
Lawrence O'Donnel as White House press Secretary
Removal of term limits for Obama so he can be President for life.
UN sovereignty over US law
Israel gone
Gitmo closed
520 weeks of unemployment
Patriot Act and NDAA added as amendments to the Constitution
Marijuana legal
Affirmative Action mandatory for businesses with more than one employee.

[Dreamliner]

I know it's hard for you to believe, but it wouldnt look much different than it does now, just more democratic (lower case) in the workplace and in gov't. I have a limited imagination, and I'm decidely non-utopian, so I'm just gonna go ahead an say slightly more German or Northern European.

You do realize that would make us more conservative, right ?

[dangolegators]

You mean more open-minded when it comes to respecting other people's viewpoints?

Like for example the point of view that we are all created equal and are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights, and that among those are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? And that the endowment of those rights occurs at the point that a human life begins, which is when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form an altogether new organism called a zygote?

Yes. But respecting others' viewpoints and agreeing with said viewpoints are two different things. Many think a one celled organism called a zygote is no more a human being than a one celled organism called an amoeba. I respect their views. Many think human life starts at conception. I respect their views too. In this case, since there is no firm agreement on the issue, I believe everyone should be allowed to make their own choice on it.

[rivergator]

What I'd like to see: A fair and honest America where everyone has a chance to succeed. Where all viewpoints are at least tolerated if not honored. Where good people do their work, raise their families and take care of their responsibilities. Where people are free to live their lives without interference from others as long as they're not hurting others. Where our incredible natural resources are preserved as much as possible for future generations. Where if you do your work and take care of your family, you're able to take care of all your basic needs. Where there is some kind of help for those who fall on the hardest of times.
i'm sure I can think of a dozen more, but that's a start.

[Row6]

the statements made by frolf and i, his(hers) stated rather eloquently, have gone unchallenged...

i was going to toss in that old adage about rivers flowing red with conservative blood but since he(she) put forth the effort i chose to abstain

+1

[Minister_of_Information]

+1 for the rivers of conservative blood no doubt

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

If we could get rid of all the ignorance, much of everything else would take care of itself. So I'd want my America to look like a country with a better educated, more open minded, more intellectually curious populace. Instead, we are looking more and more like an idiocracy.

Indeed. More ideological diversity in education is a good place to start getting "rid of all ignorance."

No one view is right. Competing views need to be tested in the marketplace of ideas Only then can rational, thinking people come to making the choices they prefer.

[Row6]

+1 for the rivers of conservative blood no doubt

Both parts of the post but especially that part.

P.S. Is a smiley face required? I consider their use an admission of either a poorly written post or a poor opinion regarding the intelligence of it's readers.

[Minister_of_Information]

Both parts of the post but especially that part.

P.S. Is a smiley face required? I consider their use an admission of either a poorly written post or a poor opinion regarding the intelligence of it's readers.

I guess that goes for both of us.

[Row6]

I guess that goes for both of us.

Then we agree on something, though I may be just missing a dry comment.

[Minister_of_Information]

Then we agree on something, though I may be just missing a dry comment.

Wouldn't be your first. Or mine, although I wasn't very serious in this instance. Funny thing about dry humor is it easy to miss if it didn't come out of your own mouth, and it can be indistinguishable from sarcasm and / or passive aggression.

[Row6]

Wouldn't be your first. Or mine, although I wasn't very serious in this instance. Funny thing about dry humor is it easy to miss if it didn't come out of your own mouth, and it can be indistinguishable from sarcasm and / or passive aggression.

When speaking we have the advantages of inflection and facial expression. Hopefully when posting total absurdity is enough but in the rough and tumble of TH, often missed.

[Minister_of_Information]

When speaking we have the advantages of inflection and facial expression. Hopefully when posting total absurdity is enough but in the rough and tumble of TH, often missed.

I habitually post dry humor yet I also get riled up by dry humor all the time too, only to feel silly later. I guess when someone is joking about something you feel deeply about, it can be hard to see the humor.

[bluelang]

Brown.

[Minister_of_Information]

Brown.

Like poop. I knew you liberals hated America.

[108]

- Tax code cleaned up, simplified. Additional top end brackets. Close loopholes. Capital gains taxes as income.

- Elimination of racial and gender discrimination in industry and academia, such that affirmative action and other EEO policies are no longer needed.

- Smart grid, with majority of energy generation from wind, solar, hydro, and some nuclear. Lots of distributed generation (solar panels on homes and businesses).

- Hard limits on greenhouse gas emissions. Strengthened clean water, clear air, endangered species, endangered habitats laws.

- More investment in STEMS. More investment in education (actual education, not salaries and luxuries for school board and college administrations). Investment in vocational training for students not interested in traditional higher education.

- Single payer healthcare, with a private market for supplemental insurance.

- Corporations are not people, money is not speech. Overturn Citizens United. Campaign finance reform. Religious institutions no longer tax exempt. Trust busting, breaking up companies that are "too big to fail". Stricter corporate ethics regulations (particularly around membership on board of directors).

- SEC oversight of more financial instruments. Break up larger banks. Regulate high-speed trading.

- Light rail/mass transit in population centers. Backbone of high-speed rail between major population centers. More shielded bike lanes and sidewalks.

- Eliminating blue laws. Alcohol sales whenever. Marijuana legalized nationally. Same sex marriage legalized nationally.

- Background checks for private gun sales.

a very good list

start with campaign finance reform and we actually might be able to accomplish some of those, as our elected leaders won't be beholden to special interests

another one that I think might be helpful is a 1 time 6 year term for president...a lot of time and money is wasted on reelection

[wgbgator]

Like poop. I knew you liberals hated America.

Or brown shirts. They look super with shiny jackboots, sashes and arm bands.

[gatorev12]

the statements made by frolf and i, his(hers) stated rather eloquently, have gone unchallenged...

i was going to toss in that old adage about rivers flowing red with conservative blood but since he(she) put forth the effort i chose to abstain

Well, this is a thread about what (in an ideal world) liberals would like to see. Not a thread about how realistic it was.

If you're wanting a rebuttal, all I'd really ask you is if you're comfortable with raising taxes at every income bracket (including the middle class) to levels of about 50-60% of income, since that's the only way to pay for all those pretty new things.

[GatorSaint]

If we could get rid of all the ignorance, much of everything else would take care of itself. So I'd want my America to look like a country with a better educated, more open minded, more intellectually curious populace. Instead, we are looking more and more like an idiocracy.

That about sums it up.

Term limits for Congress.

Campaign finance reform.

End lobbying in Congress.

I believe Washington D.C. should be a place that smart people go with open minds to solve problems based on scientific principles. Therefore we should look to not only lawyers, or doctors for these positions, but scientists and engineers.

The first attribute we should look for in them is the willingness to listen, the second should be the ability to compromise.

[brainstorm]

- Tax code cleaned up, simplified. Additional top end brackets. Close loopholes. Capital gains taxes as income.

- Elimination of racial and gender discrimination in industry and academia, such that affirmative action and other EEO policies are no longer needed.

- Smart grid, with majority of energy generation from wind, solar, hydro, and some nuclear. Lots of distributed generation (solar panels on homes and businesses).

- Hard limits on greenhouse gas emissions. Strengthened clean water, clear air, endangered species, endangered habitats laws.

- More investment in STEMS. More investment in education (actual education, not salaries and luxuries for school board and college administrations). Investment in vocational training for students not interested in traditional higher education.

- Single payer healthcare, with a private market for supplemental insurance.

- Corporations are not people, money is not speech. Overturn Citizens United. Campaign finance reform. Religious institutions no longer tax exempt. Trust busting, breaking up companies that are "too big to fail". Stricter corporate ethics regulations (particularly around membership on board of directors).

- SEC oversight of more financial instruments. Break up larger banks. Regulate high-speed trading.

- Light rail/mass transit in population centers. Backbone of high-speed rail between major population centers. More shielded bike lanes and sidewalks.

- Eliminating blue laws. Alcohol sales whenever. Marijuana legalized nationally. Same sex marriage legalized nationally.

- Background checks for private gun sales.

Good list. Some things I like (I am more or less libertarian) are bolded.

One caveat - I think the govt should do a "search/replace" - marriage to civil unions - and allow for same sex and opposite sex couples.

[candymanfromgc]

If we could get rid of all the ignorance, much of everything else would take care of itself. So I'd want my America to look like a country with a better educated, more open minded, more intellectually curious populace. Instead, we are looking more and more like an idiocracy.

I agree and obama winning reelection proves it.:yes: