Fear Of Food

[Dreamliner]

Is there a rising chorus of hysteria about the food we eat ? Maybe not. Food Fear seems a staple of American life. From the 19th Century on, Americans have constantly expressed fears that something in the foods we eat is killing us, whether germs, chemicals, HFCO, etc. And interestingly, we continue to live longer and longer lives.

An interesting read on this subject:

Fear Of Food: A History of Why We Worry about What We Eat - by Levenstein.

[Gatorrick22]

Is there a rising chorus of hysteria about the food we eat ? Maybe not. Food Fear seems a staple of American life. From the 19th Century on, Americans have constantly expressed fears that something in the foods we eat is killing us, whether germs, chemicals, HFCO, etc. And interestingly, we continue to live longer and longer lives.

An interesting read on this subject:

Fear Of Food: A History of Why We Worry about What We Eat - by Levenstein.

Look up thyroid and Iodine and you'll see a reason to panic about our food. Bromine/bromide is poisonous to the thyroid - it's in all white breads, cookies and flour. Water has fluorine and chlorine also kills your thyroid.

[Dreamliner]

Hysteria, we're healthier and living longer than ever.

[Juggernautz]

Is there a rising chorus of hysteria about the food we eat ? Maybe not. Food Fear seems a staple of American life. From the 19th Century on, Americans have constantly expressed fears that something in the foods we eat is killing us, whether germs, chemicals, HFCO, etc. And interestingly, we continue to live longer and longer lives.

An interesting read on this subject:

Fear Of Food: A History of Why We Worry about What We Eat - by Levenstein.

It's a known fact everything we eat/drink is killing us. It's a conspiracy by the government to prevent people from living longer, think China.

[ATL_Gator]

Fear of food based illnesses → increased food safety → We live longer

Seems like a logical conclusion to me, or am I looking at this wrong?

[Dreamliner]

Fear of food based illnesses → increased food safety → We live longer

Seems like a logical conclusion to me, or am I looking at this wrong?

Well, we know that fear of food (and environmental toxins and pollutants) engenders the Placebo Effect's evil twin, the 'Nocebo Effect.'

Accordingly, people fear they've ingested something bad and indeed they begin to manifest the symptoms of the conditions they fear they'll get, like gluten allergies, etc.

[MeyerIsBack]

Everyone is scared of cancer. It is not clear what causes cancer. Ergo, anything new or strange is thought to cause cancer. If there was no cancer, I think the fear would go away. People know that if they get fat they are at higher risk for diabetes and heart disease. Just like if you smoke you are at higher risk for lung cancer. However, there are so many damned reports about foods that cause and cure cancer with no or incredibly marginal proof, it is no wonder people are scared.

[Dreamliner]

Actually, obesity does not actually cause heart disease and diabetes. Heart disease is largely heritable, and diabetes risk for the obese is only 6-8%. And in diabetes, weight gain may be a part of the disease. It was certainly true, for a diabetic client of mine, that she gained weight precipitously around the time she was diagnosed.

And on the obesity thread, I posted links showing that obesity seems to confer a certain level of immunity for heart disease and diabetes.

Screwy, I know, but that's what the research is telling us.

[Gatorrick22]

Everyone is scared of cancer. It is not clear what causes cancer. Ergo, anything new or strange is thought to cause cancer. If there was no cancer, I think the fear would go away. People know that if they get fat they are at higher risk for diabetes and heart disease. Just like if you smoke you are at higher risk for lung cancer. However, there are so many damned reports about foods that cause and cure cancer with no or incredibly marginal proof, it is no wonder people are scared.

Your Thyroid is part of the endocrine system that fights/prevents cancer.

A failing endocrine system causes cancer.

[Dreamliner]

Your Thyroid is part of the endocrine system that fights/prevents cancer.

Yes, but we're somehow living longer and longer and most cancers are down.

[ATL_Gator]

Yes, but we're somehow living longer and longer and most cancers are down.

Interesting....

Searched for cancer rate info.. found an article supporting your quote.. cancer rates are down...

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/cancer-rates-continue-decline-health-officials-credit-increased-screening-prevention-efforts-article-1.1052338

From the article...
While there's a lot of good news in the report, the authors noted some looming concerns. One is increases in skin cancer cases and deaths, which experts believe are being boosted by the use of tanning beds. "I think this is a future epidemic in the making," said Plescia, director of the CDC's Division of Cancer Prevention and Control.

The authors also cited the nation's weight problem. Two out of every three adults is overweight or obese, and that seems to be contributing to rising case rates for cancers of the esophagus, uterus, pancreas and kidney. Excess weight triggers production of insulin and certain hormones that can play a role in cancer growth, experts say.

"For people who do not smoke, excess weight and lack of sufficient physical activity may be among the most important risk factors for cancer," John Seffrin (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/John+Seffrin), the Cancer Society's chief executive officer, said in a statement.

!?!? HUH?

[MeyerIsBack]

Actually, obesity does not actually cause heart disease and diabetes. Heart disease is largely heritable, and diabetes risk for the obese is only 6-8%. And in diabetes, weight gain may be a part of the disease. It was certainly true, for a diabetic client of mine, that she gained weight precipitously around the time she was diagnosed.

And on the obesity thread, I posted links showing that obesity seems to confer a certain level of immunity for heart disease and diabetes.

Screwy, I know, but that's what the research is telling us.

I would have to see something to verify that to believe it. Both my father-in-law and father were on diabetes medication. They both lost weight and were both taken off the medication. There may be other factors but surely weight is one of them. They were also both on medication for blood pressure that is no longer needed.

I don't claim to be an expert in the subject. However, I remember reading an article that attributed type 2 diabetes to fat build up around the pancreas. As weight was lost the fat around the pancreas was also lost and blood sugar was regulated.

I will look at your other thread but I seriously doubt I will ever believe that health is equal between fat and skinny people (all other things being equal). Sometimes science can confuse things that are so incredibly obvious by just observing.

[ATL_Gator]

I will look at your other thread but I seriously doubt I will ever believe that health is equal between fat and skinny people (all other things being equal). Sometimes science can confuse things that are so incredibly obvious by just observing.

The studies seem pretty conclusive (well, they aren't REALLY studies.. but still)...

My problem is that science can quickly get confused with predetermined outcomes clouding the moral judgment of the "scientist" (or data-miner, as the case may be)...

See: The China Study.

[Dreamliner]

Interesting....

Searched for cancer rate info.. found an article supporting your quote.. cancer rates are down...

http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/cancer-rates-continue-decline-health-officials-credit-increased-screening-prevention-efforts-article-1.1052338

From the article...
While there's a lot of good news in the report, the authors noted some looming concerns. One is increases in skin cancer cases and deaths, which experts believe are being boosted by the use of tanning beds. "I think this is a future epidemic in the making," said Plescia, director of the CDC's Division of Cancer Prevention and Control.

The authors also cited the nation's weight problem. Two out of every three adults is overweight or obese, and that seems to be contributing to rising case rates for cancers of the esophagus, uterus, pancreas and kidney. Excess weight triggers production of insulin and certain hormones that can play a role in cancer growth, experts say.

"For people who do not smoke, excess weight and lack of sufficient physical activity may be among the most important risk factors for cancer," John Seffrin (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/John+Seffrin), the Cancer Society's chief executive officer, said in a statement.

!?!? HUH?

It appears for all the world that researchers note that we are fatter than ever and then ASSUME that fat is causing the diseases we're getting BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING OLDER.

[Gatorrick22]

Yes, but we're somehow living longer and longer and most cancers are down.

What about prostate, colon, breast and uterine cancers?

http://journals.lww.com/oncotimesuk/Fulltext/2012/05000/Uterine_cancer_mortality_rises_by_20_.10.aspx

http://journaltimes.com/lifestyles/home-and-garden/earthtalk-what-might-be-causing-rise-in-prostate-cancer/article_79ea2ba0-f7f6-11df-b58d-001cc4c002e0.html

http://www.dana-farber.org/Newsroom/News-Releases/Colon-cancer-on-the-rise-in-young-adults.aspx

http://news.cancerconnect.com/prostate-cancertipsrising-time-of-psa-levels-shows-aggressiveness-of-prostate-cancer/


By the way it's not the "environment" per se that's to blame, it's the FDA and it's failure to see the problems with of Chlorine, fluorine, Bromine/Bromides, that food companies and municipalities continue to poison us with.

[Dreamliner]

I would have to see something to verify that to believe it. Both my father-in-law and father were on diabetes medication. They both lost weight and were both taken off the medication. There may be other factors but surely weight is one of them. They were also both on medication for blood pressure that is no longer needed.

I don't claim to be an expert in the subject. However, I remember reading an article that attributed type 2 diabetes to fat build up around the pancreas. As weight was lost the fat around the pancreas was also lost and blood sugar was regulated.

I will look at your other thread but I seriously doubt I will ever believe that health is equal between fat and skinny people (all other things being equal). Sometimes science can confuse things that are so incredibly obvious by just observing.

The numbers don't lie. I invite you to peruse the obesity thread.

With diabetes, yes, weight-loss typically alleviates symptoms. Sure enough, when my diabetic client lost a little more than 10% of her bodyweight, her blood sugar dropped from malignant levels to normal.

THEN she had another heart attack (read the diabetes thread).

So, we know that while weight loss improves numbers, we do not know that better numbers actually presage better health. And with diabetics, symptoms tend to return.

Moreover, EVEN IF weight loss is the panacea for many diseases, we're still left with the problem that we really haven't a clue about how to help people maintain their weight loss for any appreciable time. Almost everyone gains the weight back within 1-2 years. And the majority end up heavier than when they began.

[ATL_Gator]

The numbers don't lie. I invite you to peruse the obesity thread.

With diabetes, yes, weight-loss typically alleviates symptoms. Sure enough, when my diabetic client lost a little more than 10% of her bodyweight, her blood sugar dropped from malignant levels to normal.

THEN she had another heart attack (read the diabetes thread).

So, we know that while weight loss improves numbers, we do not know that better numbers actually presage better health. And with diabetics, symptoms tend to return.

Moreover, EVEN IF weight loss is the panacea for many diseases, we're still left with the problem that we really haven't a clue about how to help people maintain their weight loss for any appreciable time. Almost everyone gains the weight back within 1-2 years. And the majority end up heavier than when they began.

IMO, that is not a PHYSICAL problem, it's a mental one.

[Dreamliner]

IMO, that is not a PHYSICAL problem, it's a mental one.

It is only a mental problem in that 'willpower' is not sufficient to override the very powerfu,l unconscious biological drives that kick in to recoup lost weight.

It's not meant too.

Attributing weight regain to lack of willpower is like saying that all you need is more willpower to keep yourself in a starved state. Hell, if that's what people want to do, they can go for as far as I'm concerned.

I'll sit back and watch.

[MeyerIsBack]

The numbers don't lie. I invite you to peruse the obesity thread.

With diabetes, yes, weight-loss typically alleviates symptoms. Sure enough, when my diabetic client lost a little more than 10% of her bodyweight, her blood sugar dropped from malignant levels to normal.

THEN she had another heart attack (read the diabetes thread).

So, we know that while weight loss improves numbers, we do not know that better numbers actually presage better health. And with diabetics, symptoms tend to return.

Moreover, EVEN IF weight loss is the panacea for many diseases, we're still left with the problem that we really haven't a clue about how to help people maintain their weight loss for any appreciable time. Almost everyone gains the weight back within 1-2 years. And the majority end up heavier than when they began.

Numbers lie all the time. I will read the thread.

Or was there other damage already done because she was fat? Wouldn't a heart attack most likely be the cause of heart disease caused by being obese. To my knowledge, plaque build up in your arteries either doesn't or very slowly dissipates when weight is lost.

Moreover, EVEN IF weight loss is the panacea for many diseases, we're still left with the problem that we really haven't a clue about how to help people maintain their weight loss for any appreciable time. Almost everyone gains the weight back within 1-2 years. And the majority end up heavier than when they began.

I think this is a great question. I think the reasons we are getting fatter include.
1. I personally believe there are too many excuses for people to be fat.
2. Too many people in our population believe to their core that they cannot be skinny.
3. It is common to be obese.
4. There is no longer a stigma attached to obesity.
5. Fast and prepared food is extremely calorie dense
6. Americans drive everywhere
7. Technology has decreased other activities.
8. Portion sizes are getting bigger
9. Calorie rich drinks

I think most of this is just part of our society. Essentially, it comes down to people recognizing healthy food intake vs activity. Then it comes down to individual discipline.

[MeyerIsBack]

It is only a mental problem in that 'willpower' is not sufficient to override the very powerfu,l unconscious biological drives that kick in to recoup lost weight.

It's not meant too.

Attributing weight regain to lack of willpower is like saying that all you need is more willpower to keep yourself in a starved state. Hell, if that's what people want to do, they can go for as far as I'm concerned.

I'll sit back and watch.

People who are fat are not 'STARVING'. Slow and steady weight loss should cause very little discomfort to a person.

Obviously, from a macro level, it would be much better to keep people from getting fat. Then there is not a need to 'STARVE' anybody.

[ATL_Gator]

It is only a mental problem in that 'willpower' is not sufficient to override the very powerfu,l unconscious biological drives that kick in to recoup lost weight.

It's not meant too.

Attributing weight regain to lack of willpower is like saying that all you need is more willpower to keep yourself in a starved state. Hell, if that's what people want to do, they can go for as far as I'm concerned.

I'll sit back and watch.

Sorry, but I disagree.

A co-worker brought in Cake pops yesterday. (literally mini cake balls 1 inch in diameter on a stick, frosting and sprinkles on top). I kid you not, I had about 12 of them throughout the day. This is on top of my breakfast (Honey Nut Cheerios), lunch (Pork Tenderloin and Kale leftovers), and my dinner (WAY Too much spaghetti and Meatballs).

I guarantee, right here, that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the cake pops that I actually need. My life would continue with no issues what so ever had I never eaten those.

I craved them all day. After the first one, I could taste it all day. I wanted more. I did not need more. The fact that I ate more, 11 different times was me CAVING to the WANT to experience the taste again. Nothing more. The fact that I had them is the temporary return on the experience was GREATER than the known penalty, and I simply didn't care.

This all repeated at dinner time too. Made a bunch of spaghetti and meatballs. Put enough for 2 servings on my plate. I had every intention of only eating half and then putting half up for lunch today. Coincidentally, I was too lazy to go and get the leftover dish at the moment I was making my plate, so 100% of the food was put there... and 100% was eaten.

I even thought to myself half way through... that's enough, save the rest for tomorrow. Then said... just half a meat ball more. Well, now the other half, with some pasta and sauce... Next thing, plate is near empty.

No way did I need the other half. MENTAL FAILURE. I was simply not strong enough to sit there with the food in front of me and not experience it.

[Dreamliner]

Sorry, but I disagree.

A co-worker brought in Cake pops yesterday. (literally mini cake balls 1 inch in diameter on a stick, frosting and sprinkles on top). I kid you not, I had about 12 of them throughout the day. This is on top of my breakfast (Honey Nut Cheerios), lunch (Pork Tenderloin and Kale leftovers), and my dinner (WAY Too much spaghetti and Meatballs).

I guarantee, right here, that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the cake pops that I actually need. My life would continue with no issues what so ever had I never eaten those.

I craved them all day. After the first one, I could taste it all day. I wanted more. I did not need more. The fact that I ate more, 11 different times was me CAVING to the WANT to experience the taste again. Nothing more. The fact that I had them is the temporary return on the experience was GREATER than the known penalty, and I simply didn't care.

This all repeated at dinner time too. Made a bunch of spaghetti and meatballs. Put enough for 2 servings on my plate. I had every intention of only eating half and then putting half up for lunch today. Coincidentally, I was too lazy to go and get the leftover dish at the moment I was making my plate, so 100% of the food was put there... and 100% was eaten.

I even thought to myself half way through... that's enough, save the rest for tomorrow. Then said... just half a meat ball more. Well, now the other half, with some pasta and sauce... Next thing, plate is near empty.

No way did I need the other half. MENTAL FAILURE. I was simply not strong enough to sit there with the food in front of me and not experience it.

You're missing the point. There is a world of difference between surmounting transitory cravings for Cake Pops and losing appreciable amounts of weight and keeping it off long-term.

Recidivism is upwards of 95% within 1-2 years. And upwards of two-thirds end up heavier than ever. This ain't the body craving Cake Pops, whatever those are. Now I'm wanting some.

[ATL_Gator]

Numbers lie all the time. I will read the thread.

1. I personally believe there are too many excuses for people to be fat.


Exactly, and exactly.

Even remaining perfectly honest, you can manipulate data to make it show what ever you want. Toss in a researcher willing to OMIT legit data that is contrary to their thesis/argument/funding obligations... and you are ripe for some good number cookin' (The China Study)

And ....

Political Correctness at it's greatest. Can't make anyone feel bad for being fat. "Research" it away! ... just my $0.02.

[MeyerIsBack]

Your Thyroid is part of the endocrine system that fights/prevents cancer.

A failing endocrine system causes cancer.

So what causes a failing endocrine system?

[Dreamliner]

One very good excuse for being fat is that you are genetically predisposed to carry a lot of fat.

Obesity is almost certainly genetic.

[ATL_Gator]

One very good excuse for being fat is that you are genetically predisposed to carry a lot of fat.

Obesity is almost certainly genetic.

Again, I will fence sit on this one.

I will agree that obesity can be genetic.

I also feel that eating too much also leads to obesity... Eating habits are LEARNED, not passed on through genetics.

[MeyerIsBack]

One very good excuse for being fat is that you are genetically predisposed to carry a lot of fat.

Obesity is almost certainly genetic.

Where is the data for this? I really have not looked into this at all but my first thought is learned behavior. If a person is raised by heavy people their eating habits and views on body type will be shaped by their fat parents.

[Dreamliner]

Again, I will fence sit on this one.

I will agree that obesity can be genetic.

I also feel that eating too much also leads to obesity... Eating habits are LEARNED, not passed on through genetics.

Here again, I have already ventured that Americans are possibly especially prone to emotional eating. And some may be well above their healthy weight. For these, eating in a more attuned manner will almost certainly result in at least some weight loss.

BUT, dieting also results in overfeeding. So, I wonder how many millions of Americans are currently stuffing their faces as part-and-parcel of weight regain.

Most Americans are not gaining weight linearly.Only the fattest of the fat have exhibited a marked weight gain since the 'obesity crisis' began. Most do basically stabilize at some weight. And from that point, you observe a remarkable degree of homeostasis.

[Potzer01]

Breathing kills us. Its a fact.

The rest of this is merely masturbation.

Exercise is quite literally masturbation, especially the type done in a gym, for none rehabilitating purposes.

[MeyerIsBack]

Here again, I have already ventured that Americans are possibly especially prone to emotional eating. And some may be well above their healthy weight. For these, eating in a more attuned manner will almost certainly result in at least some weight loss.

BUT, dieting also results in overfeeding. So, I wonder how many millions of Americans are currently stuffing their faces as part-and-parcel of weight regain.

Most Americans are not gaining weight linearly.Only the fattest of the fat have exhibited a marked weight gain since the 'obesity crisis' began. Most do basically stabilize at some weight. And from that point, you observe a remarkable degree of homeostasis.

Your body requires more calories the fatter you get. Maybe these people are fattening themselves up til their intake and outtake match.

[Gatorrick22]

So what causes a failing endocrine system?

Your thyroid is the master gland, once it goes so goes your endocrine system, and your protection from free-radicals that cause cancer..

[Dreamliner]

Your body requires more calories the fatter you get. Maybe these people are fattening themselves up til their intake and outtake match.

And this is precisely why most people do not simply become fatter and fatter. Across the board, homeostasis is much more notable than linear weight gain.

I'm a rather rare example. I am quite thin at 6-0 145. I can gain 10 pounds force-feeding. About 9 of it goers on around my waist. And much more than 10 pounds and my appetite begins to shut down. I literally get sick of food.

[MeyerIsBack]

And this is precisely why most people do not simply become fatter and fatter. Across the board, homeostasis is much more notable than linear weight gain.

I'm a rather rare example. I am quite thin at 6-0 145. I can gain 10 pounds force-feeding. About 9 of it goers on around my waist. And much more than 10 pounds and my appetite begins to shut down. I literally get sick of food.

Not such a bad problem to have

[Dreamliner]

Not such a bad problem to have

True, true. But apart from my skinny-ness probably not buying me extra years, I suspect that most people experience something on this level. The vast majority will not be able to force-feed themselves into oblivion even if they want to.

What we fixate on are the outliers, the "My 600-Pound Life" types who almost certainly suffer from hormonal deficiencies or hormonal resistance.

They probably ought to call "The Biggest Loser" the "Biggest Regainer." One former contestant blogged that he regained 39 pounds five weeks after he 'graduated.'

[ATL_Gator]

Breathing kills us. Its a fact.

The rest of this is merely masturbation.

Exercise is quite literally masturbation, especially the type done in a gym, for none rehabilitating purposes.

Not sure I can use a public gym the same after reading that.

:)

Here again, I have already ventured that Americans are possibly especially prone to emotional eating. And some may be well above their healthy weight. For these, eating in a more attuned manner will almost certainly result in at least some weight loss.

BUT, dieting also results in overfeeding. So, I wonder how many millions of Americans are currently stuffing their faces as part-and-parcel of weight regain.

Most Americans are not gaining weight linearly.Only the fattest of the fat have exhibited a marked weight gain since the 'obesity crisis' began. Most do basically stabilize at some weight. And from that point, you observe a remarkable degree of homeostasis.

IMO, there is only so much chewing a person is going to do.

Because a person at 200 lb is eating enough calories to support a weight of 300 lb doesn't mean that when they reach 250, they are going to be eating enough to support 350 lb. Thus, the method of eating ALSO doesn't linearly increase with the weight gained. Therefore, it is logical that weight gain will eventually "level off"..

Think of it this way.
Drive 30 mph for an hour... Average speed... 30 mph.
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 2 hours.. 50 mph ... big gain
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 3 hours.. 56 mph... large gain, but not as much
so on ... Average over 4 hours.. 60 mph ... smaller gain
Average over 5 hours... 62 mph ... even smaller gain
average over 6 hours.. 63 mph.... is this a measurable gain?

So, even though I have been driving at 70 mph for most of the time looked at, it appears that I am "leveling off" at 63 mph... which is literally 10% less than my actual speed. What is happening is that I am asymptotically approaching my ACTUAL speed... thus, as time goes along, my rate at which I approach my speed goes WAY down.

Personally, I see weight gain the same way. Given that the calories in are relatively fixed... weight gain is going to asymptotically approach the actual weight for that amount of calories given infinite time. I feel that is why we are seeing the "leveling out".. How much we are eating isn't necessarily increasing that much.. and we have been doing so for long enough now that when we look at the "recent" short term trends, we don't see much change anymore... and we declare the problem fixed!

[MeyerIsBack]

Breathing kills us. Its a fact.

The rest of this is merely masturbation.

Exercise is quite literally masturbation, especially the type done in a gym, for none rehabilitating purposes.

This is both amazingly disturbing and exceedingly insightful

[ATL_Gator]

And this is precisely why most people do not simply become fatter and fatter. Across the board, homeostasis is much more notable than linear weight gain.

I'm a rather rare example. I am quite thin at 6-0 145. I can gain 10 pounds force-feeding. About 9 of it goers on around my waist. And much more than 10 pounds and my appetite begins to shut down. I literally get sick of food.

For the record, I do not suffer from your condition...

...

And I do not envision myself EVER being 265 again.

AS is the case today... I literally become disgusted with myself after binge eating... and have to fight the urge to go nutzoid during the following days.

[Dreamliner]

Not sure I can use a public gym the same after reading that.

:)



IMO, there is only so much chewing a person is going to do.

Because a person at 200 lb is eating enough calories to support a weight of 300 lb doesn't mean that when they reach 250, they are going to be eating enough to support 350 lb. Thus, the method of eating ALSO doesn't linearly increase with the weight gained. Therefore, it is logical that weight gain will eventually "level off"..

Think of it this way.
Drive 30 mph for an hour... Average speed... 30 mph.
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 2 hours.. 50 mph ... big gain
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 3 hours.. 56 mph... large gain, but not as much
so on ... Average over 4 hours.. 60 mph ... smaller gain
Average over 5 hours... 62 mph ... even smaller gain
average over 6 hours.. 63 mph.... is this a measurable gain?

So, even though I have been driving at 70 mph for most of the time looked at, it appears that I am "leveling off" at 63 mph... which is literally 10% less than my actual speed. What is happening is that I am asymptotically approaching my ACTUAL speed... thus, as time goes along, my rate at which I approach my speed goes WAY down.

Personally, I see weight gain the same way. Given that the calories in are relatively fixed... weight gain is going to asymptotically approach the actual weight for that amount of calories given infinite time. I feel that is why we are seeing the "leveling out".. How much we are eating isn't necessarily increasing that much.. and we have been doing so for long enough now that when we look at the "recent" short term trends, we don't see much change anymore... and we declare the problem fixed!

I agree with what I *think* you're saying. But the very researchers who note this basic stabilization show little evidence of being able to separate themselves from the moral panic which is the 'obesity crisis.'

It's almost like they're saying. "Well, obesity is not really going through the roof. And the heavier we get, the longer we live. But still, obesity is killing us!"

[MeyerIsBack]

For the record, I do not suffer from your condition...

...

And I do not envision myself EVER being 265 again.

AS is the case today... I literally become disgusted with myself after binge eating... and have to fight the urge to go nutzoid during the following days.

This is me in a nutshell. It may be why I have little sympathy for overweight people. I know it today's society being a healthy weight requires sacrifice or will power or whatever you want to call it. I know it rarely just happens.

[Dreamliner]

For the record, I do not suffer from your condition...

...

And I do not envision myself EVER being 265 again.

AS is the case today... I literally become disgusted with myself after binge eating... and have to fight the urge to go nutzoid during the following days.


There you go, a welcome victory. I surmise that your 265 might have been like my low 160's, years ago, the heaviest I've ever been. It's hard for me to now imagine eating enough to get back there.

And again, I'm not saying that no one can lose a bunch of weight and keep it off forever. Certainly recidivism is short of 100%. But of course everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule.

[Gatorrick22]

And this is precisely why most people do not simply become fatter and fatter. Across the board, homeostasis is much more notable than linear weight gain.

I'm a rather rare example. I am quite thin at 6-0 145. I can gain 10 pounds force-feeding. About 9 of it goers on around my waist. And much more than 10 pounds and my appetite begins to shut down. I literally get sick of food.

You might need an herb (indubitably) Rx.

[Dreamliner]

I may need that. Based on CDC numbers, I'm about to check out. It's not only the underweight who are at risk, some studies indicate the lower half of normal are at risk. And one study showed that people of normal weight who exercise are especially at risk.

[ATL_Gator]

There you go, a welcome victory. I surmise that your 265 might have been like my low 160's, years ago, the heaviest I've ever been. It's hard for me to now imagine eating enough to get back there.

And again, I'm not saying that no one can lose a bunch of weight and keep it off forever. Certainly recidivism is short of 100%. But of course everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule.

Oh, I could imagine eating "well enough" to be 265 again. With out a single problem.

I would hate myself too.

Can I be 265+.. yes. Will I, no. I enjoy what else I can do now more than the long term eating it will take to get there.

Can I be 180? Yes. Can I maintain 180? At this point in my life, I do not fell disciplined enough to do so. Maybe that will change. It's all in my head.

Speaking of "in my head"... Do I have some wires crossed as a result of being 265? ABSOLUTELY. I fully believe that I am screwed up when it comes to food, and not eating 4000 calories a day is a challenge. Some days are better than others.

I do not like equating "food addiction" to other more serious and deadly addictions... but I think food addiction is tangible. Furthermore, I think that once you give in to a temptation, you always maintain that connection, and it takes mental work to resist that temptation.

Thus... failing at a lifestyle change and putting weight back on is a MENTAL failure before anything else.

[Dreamliner]

Oh, I could imagine eating "well enough" to be 265 again. With out a single problem.

I would hate myself too.

Can I be 265+.. yes. Will I, no. I enjoy what else I can do now more than the long term eating it will take to get there.

Can I be 180? Yes. Can I maintain 180? At this point in my life, I do not fell disciplined enough to do so. Maybe that will change. It's all in my head.

Speaking of "in my head"... Do I have some wires crossed as a result of being 265? ABSOLUTELY. I fully believe that I am screwed up when it comes to food, and not eating 4000 calories a day is a challenge. Some days are better than others.

I do not like equating "food addiction" to other more serious and deadly addictions... but I think food addiction is tangible. Furthermore, I think that once you give in to a temptation, you always maintain that connection, and it takes mental work to resist that temptation.

Thus... failing at a lifestyle change and putting weight back on is a MENTAL failure before anything else.

Well, I suppose binge-eating and so forth could be construed as a failure in that it is obviously something we don't need to do.

I'm with you that eating does not, by definition, rise to the level of a true addiction. Of course this is scant consolation to someone who feels like an addict in the throes of binge-eating.

[Potzer01]

The # is the problem. That's one of the things Dream's talked about over the years.

Fitness isn't about what the scale says. Its about being able to do the things you want to do.

IE Be fit enough to bike to the beach on saturdays without being miserable.

Example:
My goal is to be able to build shelter and shade all day at burning man. Then dance the night away. Then be able to do it all the next night. Read otherwise it might say, my goal is to have the stamina to burn 5k calories a day for a week straight.

[Dreamliner]

I perceive that my Quality of Life will continue to suffer until which time I can accomplish a press-to-handstand, lower to full planche, do pop-up and then perform back-flip.

[Juggernautz]

That's impressive, lol.

[MeyerIsBack]

The # is the problem. That's one of the things Dream's talked about over the years.

Fitness isn't about what the scale says. Its about being able to do the things you want to do.

IE Be fit enough to bike to the beach on saturdays without being miserable.

Example:
My goal is to be able to build shelter and shade all day at burning man. Then dance the night away. Then be able to do it all the next night. Read otherwise it might say, my goal is to have the stamina to burn 5k calories a day for a week straight.

I think this is well said. There are many reasons to be thin/healthy and I have yet to meet an overweight person that wants to be overweight. The negative consequences of being overweight can have any name. I think quality of life works because it encompasses mobility, vanity, and mood. I would be happy to call it something else if there was a better word.

[Gatorrick22]

I think those CDC weight chart numbers are to out of date. I'm always heavier than they want me to be, but I'm nowhere near fat or unhealthy.

However, 6' and 145 lbs is dangerously thin.

[ATL_Gator]

I think those CDC weight chart numbers are to out of date. I'm always heavier than they want me to be, but I'm nowhere near fat or unhealthy.

However, 6' and 145 lbs is dangerously thin.

Not sure about the out of date part...

BUT...

BMI is really an awful tool/measure if you are not considering a lot of people.

In my opinion, comparing a single person's BMI to an index is nearly wrong. For one, if you are an active person who lifts weights, you are NOT AVERAGE... so what is the use of comparing you to AVERAGE people?

[Dreamliner]

I think those CDC weight chart numbers are to out of date. I'm always heavier than they want me to be, but I'm nowhere near fat or unhealthy.

However, 6' and 145 lbs is dangerously thin.

Well, it could well be. But what can I do about it ? I've already explained why I can't gain weight and that it's the reverse of the problem for the obese person.

[Dreamliner]

Not sure about the out of date part...

BUT...

BMI is really an awful tool/measure if you are not considering a lot of people.

In my opinion, comparing a single person's BMI to an index is nearly wrong. For one, if you are an active person who lifts weights, you are NOT AVERAGE... so what is the use of comparing you to AVERAGE people?

BMI really is a silly metric, IMO. BUT, the obesity researchers want it both ways now. They've used BMI for a CENTURY now to track obesity. THEN, on learning that obesity really isn't killing us ... they begin to turn on the metric they've used for a CENTURY now to track obesity.

[Gatorrick22]

Not sure about the out of date part...

BUT...

BMI is really an awful tool/measure if you are not considering a lot of people.

In my opinion, comparing a single person's BMI to an index is nearly wrong. For one, if you are an active person who lifts weights, you are NOT AVERAGE... so what is the use of comparing you to AVERAGE people?

I always thought Body Mass Index was hard to accurately measure, or just guess work.

[Gatorrick22]

Well, it could well be. But what can I do about it ? I've already explained why I can't gain weight and that it's the reverse of the problem for the obese person.

Find some medical MJ and get the munchies.

[Dreamliner]

Find some medical MJ and get the munchies.

I'm moving to California. So, maybe the weed will be more accessible out there.

Seriously though, I'm no more motivated to gain weight than heavier people ought to be to lose weight. First, it's what I am. Second, my health markers (for what they're worth) are normal. Lastly, my mother is skinny like me and is 84. And my great-grandfather was skinny all his life and died at 86. So, whereas I may die tomorrow, just looking at family trends skinny isn't necessarily a death sentence.

Additionally, my wife is closer to the underweight category than I am, and at the age of 57 her blood pressure is about 90/60. When we rushed her to the hospital a few years ago, and she was in great pain due to a badly inflammed gall bladder, her blood pressure ROSE to about 115/75.

[Gatorrick22]

I would have to see something to verify that to believe it. Both my father-in-law and father were on diabetes medication. They both lost weight and were both taken off the medication. There may be other factors but surely weight is one of them. They were also both on medication for blood pressure that is no longer needed.

I don't claim to be an expert in the subject. However, I remember reading an article that attributed type 2 diabetes to fat build up around the pancreas. As weight was lost the fat around the pancreas was also lost and blood sugar was regulated.

I will look at your other thread but I seriously doubt I will ever believe that health is equal between fat and skinny people (all other things being equal). Sometimes science can confuse things that are so incredibly obvious by just observing.

Fascinating. I'd like to know more details about this.....

[MeyerIsBack]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168743/

[Gatorrick22]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168743/

This is really good info., thanks for the link and story. I do wonder how many more cures are out there for other supposedly non-curable diseases?

[GuyWhiteyCorngood]

This a good TED Talk:

Can we eat to starve cancer? (http://www.ted.com/talks/william_li.html)

[Dreamliner]

No tenable link found between weight-loss and diabetes remission:

http://intelligentprotocol.blogspot.com/2009/04/urban-legends-in-medicine-want-to-avoid.html

[Dreamliner]

This a good TED Talk:

Can we eat to starve cancer? (http://www.ted.com/talks/william_li.html)

I believe it. You'll likely die from the effects of starvation before you have a chance to contract cancer. :wink: