More than 100 pedophiles caught in sting

[oragator1]

I don't think it's very controversial to say we are pretty much all in agreement that this series of arrests is a good thing (at least I hope so).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256775/Operation-Sunflower-Over-100-children-rescued-pedophiles-clutches-America-massive-raid.html

My question/concern is why these busts don't happen more. I mean Chris Hansen can find guys all day long, they bust 100 at a time here, but yet it still seem they haven't gone beyond the surface in trying to stamp this out. How many could they actually round up if it had the focus of say, the drug war?

[bluelang]

Good question. Seems like a real no-brainer for some law-and-order type politician to get elected on, as well.

And unlike the war on drugs, there's no bullshit arguments about "victimless crimes" here. I don't care if these people need help or hanging, just get them off the streets.

[96Gatorcise]

I don't think it's very controversial to say we are pretty much all in agreement that this series of arrests is a good thing (at least I hope so).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256775/Operation-Sunflower-Over-100-children-rescued-pedophiles-clutches-America-massive-raid.html

My question/concern is why these busts don't happen more. I mean Chris Hansen can find guys all day long, they bust 100 at a time here, but yet it still seem they haven't gone beyond the surface in trying to stamp this out. How many could they actually round up if it had the focus of say, the drug war?

you mean that focus that has spent 100's of billions and not even put in a dent?

I would say you would get the same result.

[ChartsandGrafs]

you mean that focus that has spent 100's of billions and not even put in a dent?

I would say you would get the same result.

This, of course, assumes that the goal of the War on (some) Drugs has anything to do with putting a dent in the use, manufacture, and trade of illegal drugs.

This is probably not a smart assumption to make.

[oragator1]

you mean that focus that has spent 100's of billions and not even put in a dent?

I would say you would get the same result.

In a way that was my point. Take most of the money just spent on marijuana interdictions, which most agree is pointless, and how many pedophiles could we get off the streets, even if we only got 5% of them? If we are going to attempt morality, at least do it on something everyone agrees is morally reprehensible, and if we don't get them all at least our money went towards something worthwhile. It would also bring attention to it, so parents, counselors etc. could be more aware of warning signs earlier in people's lives.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

It's actually incredibly labor intensive to get this many people in a sting. It's difficult work, and they tend to focus on those producing instead of those consuming (though the latter will obviously get rounded up as well). The issue is the methodology, which requires acquisition and then manually identification points, locations and people.

Of course, if they could just monitor everyone's traffic via logs at the ISP this could happen almost automatically, though I doubt anyone's really game for that.

[g8orbill]

I will never understand how the bleeding hearts still believe these scumbags can be rehabilitated -cut loose the guys in prison for mary jane and put these scumbags away for life

[g8orbill]

obob-the amazing thing is Sherriff Judd keeps running these stings and keeps catching bunches every time

[ChartsandGrafs]

obob-the amazing thing is Sherriff Judd keeps running these stings and keeps catching bunches every time

Then imagine how many pedophiles he would catch within the halls of government in Washington D.C. Judging by the shenanigans that took place during the Franklin cover-up and how quickly the national media (AKA, the Ministry of Propaganda) tried to bury the story, that number is probably well within the hundreds.

The people can be allowed to know about this sort of thing if it happens at a large state university, but not if it happens within the federal Mafia.

[wgbgator]

I don't think it's very controversial to say we are pretty much all in agreement that this series of arrests is a good thing (at least I hope so).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256775/Operation-Sunflower-Over-100-children-rescued-pedophiles-clutches-America-massive-raid.html

My question/concern is why these busts don't happen more. I mean Chris Hansen can find guys all day long, they bust 100 at a time here, but yet it still seem they haven't gone beyond the surface in trying to stamp this out. How many could they actually round up if it had the focus of say, the drug war?

Well, Chris Hansen was basically running an entrapment scheme. To some extent these stings try to make it easy for the potential pedophile to act on a desire. If not cajoled and prodded, how many of these people would have made the trip, or loaded up on condoms and booze on the way over, as prompted? Obviously, some of those people are potentially dangerous, but would they have acted on it if the barriers hadnt been eradicated for them, and they are basically persuaded by someone else to act? How many of the people caught were/are serial offenders? I know these are questions people don't really want to ask, because, there is rightfully little sympathy for pedophiles.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

obob-the amazing thing is Sherriff Judd keeps running these stings and keeps catching bunches every time

I try not to think about how much of this stuff is going on.

[brainstorm]

I agree with Bill. They cannot be rehabilitated.

Stop the war on drugs and free up enforcement resources for things such as catching and prosecuting these scumbags.

[rivergator]

I try not to think about how much of this stuff is going on.

I can't fathom it.

[Matthanuf06]

The key is to get the producers and the obvious consumers. But it isn't worth a state run and monitored Internet to catch the consumers

[The_Ultimate_Gator]

I don't think it's very controversial to say we are pretty much all in agreement that this series of arrests is a good thing (at least I hope so).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256775/Operation-Sunflower-Over-100-children-rescued-pedophiles-clutches-America-massive-raid.html

My question/concern is why these busts don't happen more. I mean Chris Hansen can find guys all day long, they bust 100 at a time here, but yet it still seem they haven't gone beyond the surface in trying to stamp this out. How many could they actually round up if it had the focus of say, the drug war?

Well, I'm not privy to all the details of this particular investigation, but you have to understand that the Chris-Hansen-type-busts are probably a lot less common now.

Pedophiles and other criminal types that use the internet have gone pretty deep underground and frequent message boards (not unlike this one) that aren't easily discovered by ordinary internet surfers. And more so, to get access to those sites and the people who traffic in this stuff you have to basically infiltrate their organization and offer more "original product" if you get my meaning.

Sure, the Dateline-type busts make for good TV, but that's only catching the lightweight dabblers - to get the more serious folks you gotta go deep underground.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Well, Chris Hansen was basically running an entrapment scheme. To some extent these stings try to make it easy for the potential pedophile to act on a desire. If not cajoled and prodded, how many of these people would have made the trip, or loaded up on condoms and booze on the way over, as prompted? Obviously, some of those people are potentially dangerous, but would they have acted on it if the barriers hadnt been eradicated for them, and they are basically persuaded by someone else to act? How many of the people caught were/are serial offenders? I know these are questions people don't really want to ask, because, there is rightfully little sympathy for pedophiles.

Yeah I've always been conflicted about several facets of this.

As you described, a lot of the people in these stings are really pushed to act on this. Hansen's show was really entertaining, but like you I wonder how much of this would have happened organically?

As for rehabilitation, I have no idea. I mean, we're talking about a legitimate mental issue, so can we say definitively there's no chance for a life beyond that?

More importantly, I hate the branding of sexual predators. If we don't feel safe enough to let them out of jail, keep them in jail. The notion of releasing someone and then putting signs on their yard / whatever is totally baffling to me.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Sure, the Dateline-type busts make for good TV, but that's only catching the lightweight dabblers - to get the more serious folks you gotta go deep underground.

This is the stuff I really don't want to think about ... just how pervasive (no pun intended) this might be.

[wgbgator]

Yeah I've always been conflicted about several facets of this.

As you described, a lot of the people in these stings are really pushed to act on this. Hansen's show was really entertaining, but like you I wonder how much of this would have happened organically?

As for rehabilitation, I have no idea. I mean, we're talking about a legitimate mental issue, so can we say definitively there's no chance for a life beyond that?

More importantly, I hate the branding of sexual predators. If we don't feel safe enough to let them out of jail, keep them in jail. The notion of releasing someone and then putting signs on their yard / whatever is totally baffling to me.

Yeah, totally agree. Its a cliche response, but there are no easy answers. Murder has one of the lowest recidivism rates for any crime, while pedophilia is extremely high. Yet, murderers typically get death or life in prison, no parole. Sex offenders don't.

[gatorman_07732]

I agree with Bill. They cannot be rehabilitated.

Stop the war on drugs and free up enforcement resources for things such as catching and prosecuting these scumbags.

This surprised me a little bit. I found this to be relatively low with regard to what I would have thought. My wife scans the registered sex offendors site frequently, and lo and behold recognized a man requently seen in the park with a little dog and she informed the local PD. Never seen him again.

http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/1/res/rcd.html

Overall, follow-up studies typically find sexual recidivism rates of 10%-15% after five years, 20% after 10 years, and 30%-40% after 20 years

[AndyGator]

Actually everything I have read indicates they cannot be reformed. What an atrocious and disgusting affliction.

[wgbgator]

Actually everything I have read indicates they cannot be reformed. What an atrocious and disgusting affliction.

You've touched on another thing here. If its an affliction, with no hope of reform, then its not really a behavioral choice. Our system of justice depends on the idea that people can make choices between right and wrong, so what to do with these people, who apparenty are unable to?

[reformedgator]

Although sexual deviancy in any form is a very destructive & extremely compelling behavior, you have to hope that there can be a redemptive change.

[OaktownGator]

You've touched on another thing here. If its an affliction, with no hope of reform, then its not really a behavioral choice. Our system of justice depends on the idea that people can make choices between right and wrong, so what to do with these people, who apparenty are unable to?
Perhaps there is an affliction involved wrt their attraction to kids, and maybe that affliction is not something they can overcome. I don't know.

But they have a choice as to whether to act on it, and abuse kids... much as married people have a choice as to whether to act on sexual attractions they have to people other than their spouse.

A person who cheats on their spouse with a consenting adult makes a bad choice.

A person who sexually abuses children makes an illegal choice, and should be treated as a criminal. IMO.

[wgbgator]

Perhaps there is an affliction involved wrt their attraction to kids, and maybe that affliction is not something they can overcome. I don't know.

But they have a choice as to whether to act on it, and abuse kids... much as married people have a choice as to whether to act on sexual attractions they have to people other than their spouse.

A person who cheats on their spouse with a consenting adult makes a bad choice.

A person who sexually abuses children makes an illegal choice, and should be treated as a criminal. IMO.

You're right, and we don't punish adultery through the legal system (directly) or treat cheaters with the same scorn we do pedophiles, because we consider them bad choices, but not really illegal ones. Some legal systems do though, those are "illegal choices" in say, Afghanistan. I'm not going to make the leap and say that pedophiles should be treated like people who cheat on their spouses, but they are both choices toward acting on what are apparently desires & attractions that aren't real choices, at the expense of deeply held social conventions.

[brainstorm]

I don't buy that. You can have desires without taking inappropriate actions.

I can be attracted to a beautiful lady who passes my on the sidewalk without raping her.
I can admire my neighbor's new car without stealing it.
I can get angry at a co-worker without killing him.

If you have a sexual attraction to kids, you're sick and need some sort of help. You don't have to act upon the urges.

[northgagator]

If you have a sexual attraction to kids, you're sick and need some sort of help. You don't have to act upon the urges.

If thinking or desiring of illegal or immoral action were felonies than almost everyone who was born in this planet would need a jail cell.

Do we know if this condition something that a person is born with or is it inflected or chosen?

Answer: It matters so that society can find a way to reduce or eleminate this sickness.

Is screening for pedophilia (if possible) and enforcing treatment or confinement of suspected pedophiles a solution?

Answer: It matters if we value our children. Yet some people will object and used the courts to let them walk the streets.

Why do our local governments pick up stray dogs, keep them for a period if time, place them for adoption, and if necessary put them down?

Answer: For the safety of the community.

What is our biggest fear? A stray dog or a pedophile on the streets.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

If thinking or desiring of illegal or immoral action were felonies than almost everyone who was born in this planet would need a jail cell.

Do we know if this condition something that a person is born with or is it inflected or chosen?

Answer: It matters so that society can find a way to reduce or elementary this sickness.

Is screening for pedophilia (if possible) and enforcing treatment or confinement of suspected pedophiles a solution?

Answer: It matters if we value our children. Yet some people will object and used the courts to let them walk the streets.

Why do our local governments pick up stray dogs, keep them for a period if time, place them for adoption, and if necessary put them down?

Answer: For the safety of the community.

What is our biggest fear? A stray dog or a pedophile on the streets.

Sure, screen for all potential crimes and punish prior to their inevitable act.

Let me give Philip K. Dick a call real quick ...

[northgagator]

Sure, screen for all potential crimes and punish prior to their inevitable act.

Let me give Philip K. Dick a call real quick ...

Who said punish?

I said enforcing treatment or confinement

I can see that there is some ambiguity in my statement and I apologize for that.

Getting treatment is not necessarily the same thing as punishment.

However, you do bring up an interesting point.
Should a person who is diagnosed with having the potential of being a pedohphile be made to take mandatory treatment and or confinement until they are deemed not a threat to society.

But this opens up a can of worms:
1, What is a proven/accurate screening method to be used for the diagnosis?
2, What is a proven/accurate treatment plan after a diagnosis?
3, How do we determine if a person is or is not a threat to society thus needing mandatory confinement?
4, Why should pediophilia be treated any different that other mental illnesses when a person is allowed to be released back into society?
5, Is chemical castration a moral option when making it conditional for a pediophile to be release back into society?

As for my self I do not have the answers to all of the above questions. I am still pondering over some of them.

There is precedence here for answering yes to some of the above questions:
1, The obivious one here is when a person openly admits that they need help and thus volunteer for treatment and or confinement.
2, Another obivious one is when a pedophile is caught red handed in the act. Hardly anyone will question most mandatory treatment or confinement.
3, There is evidence that chemical castration maybe an effective treatment for a pediofile. However there critical groups (Amnesty International) have campaigned against this method (when forced/mandatory) saying that this method is too drastic.

One last question:
Should chemical castration be made a mandatory condition for a pediophile before he is released back into society?

Forced or involuntary sterilisation raises serious human rights concerns, particularly with regard to the rights to bodily integrity, health, privacy, family life, and discrimination (including the right to decide on the number and spacing of one's children). It is difficult to imagine any likely context in which either forced or involuntary sterilisation would be justified. The only caveat would be in a situation where a person's life is in imminent danger and that person is incapable of giving consent to the procedure.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/IOR61/014/2011/en

Another report on Chemical Castration:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/05/health/chemical-castration-science/index.html

[busigator96]

I don't buy that. You can have desires without taking inappropriate actions.

I can be attracted to a beautiful lady who passes my on the sidewalk without raping her.
I can admire my neighbor's new car without stealing it.
I can get angry at a co-worker without killing him.

If you have a sexual attraction to kids, you're sick and need some sort of help. You don't have to act upon the urges.

Is help available under obamacare?

[Gatorpika]

Our system of justice depends on the idea that people can make choices between right and wrong, so what to do with these people, who apparenty are unable to?

Not really. It depends on whether a person is competent enough to understand the concept of right and wrong. If they are, then they can make a choice even if they are compelled to do something. Many serial killers are obviously compelled to kill because their brains are wired differently, but they are still incarcerated or put to death because the court determined that they had the competence to prevent themselves from committing those acts.

[wiene2003]

Who said punish?

I said

I can see that there is some ambiguity in my statement and I apologize for that.

Getting treatment is not necessarily the same thing as punishment.

However, you do bring up an interesting point.
Should a person who is diagnosed with having the potential of being a pedohphile be made to take mandatory treatment and or confinement until they are deemed not a threat to society.

But this opens up a can of worms:
1, What is a proven/accurate screening method to be used for the diagnosis?
2, What is a proven/accurate treatment plan after a diagnosis?
3, How do we determine if a person is or is not a threat to society thus needing mandatory confinement?
4, Why should pediophilia be treated any different that other mental illnesses when a person is allowed to be released back into society?
5, Is chemical castration a moral option when making it conditional for a pediophile to be release back into society?

As for my self I do not have the answers to all of the above questions. I am still pondering over some of them.

There is precedence here for answering yes to some of the above questions:
1, The obivious one here is when a person openly admits that they need help and thus volunteer for treatment and or confinement.
2, Another obivious one is when a pedophile is caught red handed in the act. Hardly anyone will question most mandatory treatment or confinement.
3, There is evidence that chemical castration maybe an effective treatment for a pediofile. However there critical groups (Amnesty International) have campaigned against this method (when forced/mandatory) saying that this method is too drastic.

One last question:
Should chemical castration be made a mandatory condition for a pediophile before he is released back into society?

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/info/IOR61/014/2011/en

Another report on Chemical Castration:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/05/health/chemical-castration-science/index.html

Hold up, let me make sure I read you right. Are you suggesting the possibility of screening people to see if they could potentially be pedophiles and then chemically castrating them? Even if no law has been broken? Just from a 'screening'?

[northgagator]

Hold up, let me make sure I read you right. Are you suggesting the possibility of screening people to see if they could potentially be pedophiles and then chemically castrating them? Even if no law has been broken? Just from a 'screening'?

Sorry for causing some confusion or uneasiness.

I am posing thought provoking questions.
As for chemical castration of pedophiles who are identified in the screening process, I was implying in the scenario that it would be voluntary and not mandated.

However your reply generates a new thought provoking question.

Should pedophiles who are identified in the screening process face voluntary mandatory chemical castration?

All I am doing is putting as many option on the table as possible.

What is your opinion?

[wiene2003]

Sorry for causing some confusion or uneasiness.

I am posing thought provoking questions.
As for chemical castration of pedophiles who are identified in the screening process, I was implying in the scenario that it would be voluntary and not mandated.

However your reply generates a new thought provoking question.

Should pedophiles who are identified in the screening process face voluntary mandatory chemical castration?

All I am doing is putting as many option on the table as possible.

What is your opinion?

Voluntary? Well I'm the kind of person who thinks adults should be able to do just about whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others, so if someone is down with that, by all means, let em. But I don't know what you mean by voluntary mandatory chemical castration, probably a mistype.

I'm just not sure there would be any reliable screening process that could identify potential pedophiles and even if there were, are you going to screen everyone? Seems like a very slippery slope too. Come up with a screening process for every potential criminal. Or what about someone who is identified as someone who is a 'potential' pedophile but in reality, isn't one at all? What will the label do to them and how would it affect their lives?

I think the best solutions are awareness and education of parents and kids and proper punishment of those who actually commit crimes. I cant think of a way to prevent these types of crimes without violating the rights of many innocent citizens.

[northgagator]

[QUOTE="wiene2003"]
Voluntary? Well I'm the kind of person who thinks adults should be able to do just about whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others, so if someone is down with that, by all means, let em. But I don't know what you mean by voluntary mandatory chemical castration, probably a mistype.

[Tebowism0823]

Having a background of sexual abuse I will tell you most people don't even realize how common it is. People are so naive to the thought that it must be a stranger doing these awful things when in fact the % shows that most sexual abuse is done by a family member. Society has become so accustomed to music, videos, and movies portraying sexual references and activities and then act surprised when these things happen. Unfortunately this sort of thing will never go away. The laws they have in place are a complete joke. When a 18 year old kid has Sex with a consenting 16 year old, they are tried and classified as the same as if it was a 50 year old preying on a child. I to believe this is not something that can be mentally fixed. When an adult is able to sexually molest a child something is seriously wrong with them. There's so much fear about sex offenders in neighborhoods that its out of hand. If you're that afraid then they don't belong out in the first place. No amount of force or money is going to cut down on these things from happening. When this happens, there needs to be a place to send them and be done with it. They have most likely stolen that child's life both mentally and physically.

[northgagator]

Voluntary? Well I'm the kind of person who thinks adults should be able to do just about whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others, so if someone is down with that, by all means, let em. But I don't know what you mean by voluntary mandatory chemical castration, probably a mistype.
Typing on a phone sucks for me. Yep, it was a typo. I intended to say "voluntarily".

Thanks for the input too.


I'm just not sure there would be any reliable screening process that could identify potential pedophiles

That is a good question!

And even if there were, are you going to screen everyone? Seems like a very slippery slope too.

My concern too

Come up with a screening process for every potential criminal. Or what about someone who is identified as someone who is a 'potential' pedophile but in reality, isn't one at all? What will the label do to them and how would it affect their lives?

Good point.
That would be one hell of a scarlet letter!
Could be grounds for a good size slander suit.

i think the best solutions are awareness and education of parents and kids and proper punishment of those who actually commit crimes.

I agree with awareness and education.
However a long term pedophiles uses the grooming technique to seduce the victim. Also in most case the pedophiles is a family friend or member. They are very predatory like a crocodile.
What is your definition of proper punishment.

Question: if there is no doubt that a pedophile crime had been committed by the accused then are you for mandatory chemical castration before the guilty party can walk the streets again?

I cant think of a way to prevent these types of crimes without violating the rights of many innocent citizens.

Are you referring to the pedophile who was never ycaught or the one that strikes again after getting paroled or serving their term?

[rpmGator]

Were all of them Penn State grads...

Seriously, it is good they do these stings and one of the things cops should be doing to protect the next victim from happening.

[northgagator]

Having a background of sexual abuse I will tell you most people don't even realize how common it is. People are so naive to the thought that it must be a stranger doing these awful things when in fact the % shows that most sexual abuse is done by a family member. Society has become so accustomed to music, videos, and movies portraying sexual references and activities and then act surprised when these things happen. Unfortunately this sort of thing will never go away. The laws they have in place are a complete joke. When a 18 year old kid has Sex with a consenting 16 year old, they are tried and classified as the same as if it was a 50 year old preying on a child. I to believe this is not something that can be mentally fixed. When an adult is able to sexually molest a child something is seriously wrong with them. There's so much fear about sex offenders in neighborhoods that its out of hand. If you're that afraid then they don't belong out in the first place. No amount of force or money is going to cut down on these things from happening. When this happens, there needs to be a place to send them and be done with it. They have most likely stolen that child's life both mentally and physically.

+1

By the way my grand mother was barely 16 when she married my grandfather was almost 30. But that was back in 1915. Times and circumstance were different back then. They had 13 children and were married 50 years when she died,

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Who said punish?

You did.

[northgagator]

You did.

OBOB,

Here is the quote I think you are referring to:

Is screening for pedophilia (if possible) and enforcing treatment or confinement of suspected pedophiles a solution?

Answer: It matters if we value our children. Yet some people will object and used the courts to let them walk the streets.

Please note I did not say what you posted.
You only listed one option (enforced confinement) but not the other option (enforced treatment). You should not split/parse a statement to make mean what you want it to.

I understand your statement about enforce confinement. Actually I feel the same way. That us why I included enforced treatment.

However there is a precedent for enforced confinement diagnoses for people diagnosed with mental illness when a crime was not committed. When the proper procedures are followed the mentally ill can be confined against their will. This done for the protection of the mentally ill person and society.

A common reason given for involuntary commitment is to prevent danger to the individual or society. People with suicidal thoughts may act on these thoughts and harm or kill themselves. People with psychoses are occasionally driven by their delusions or hallucinations to harm themselves or others. People with certain types of personality disorders can occasionally present a danger to themselves or others. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment

The other alternative is enforced treatment. There is a precedent there too. Many drug addicts are given court ordered drug rehab. Also in times of epidemics people are quarantined and or vaccinated. Also to enroll in public schools, the military, and to travel you have to have your inoculations up to date.

[Gatorpika]

I don't think it's possible to screen for pedophilia. It's a psychological condition, not a physiological condition as far as I know. A large percentage were physically abused as children, so they might have otherwise turned out normal with a different upbringing. Even if it was possible to identify individuals at risk, ultimately it's a decision they make to commit the act. Most people have urges they don't act on. I may want to beat the hell out of the Alabama fan that was trashing Tebow, but I wouldn't do it. Only a small percentage of people actually act on their urges and commit a serious illegal act. To try to compel them to self castrate or whatever without considering their will to resist those urges would be wrong.

[texigator]

I don't think it's very controversial to say we are pretty much all in agreement that this series of arrests is a good thing (at least I hope so).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256775/Operation-Sunflower-Over-100-children-rescued-pedophiles-clutches-America-massive-raid.html

My question/concern is why these busts don't happen more. I mean Chris Hansen can find guys all day long, they bust 100 at a time here, but yet it still seem they haven't gone beyond the surface in trying to stamp this out. How many could they actually round up if it had the focus of say, the drug war?



I'd much rather see my tax dollars support law enforcement efforts in this area instead of the phony "war" on drugs. Keep stinging until you get 'em all.

[northgagator]

I don't think it's possible to screen for pedophilia. It's a psychological condition, not a physiological condition as far as I know.
There are screening methods that have good accuracy, Here is one method recommended by the NCJRS:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=147090
the Abel Screen, compares favorably with phallometry in identifying those at risk for involvement with prepubescent and pubescent boys. The Abel Screen works by matching the arousal pattern and cognitions of men who have admitted to a pedophilia diagnosis against the arousal patterns and cognitions of men in the general population who deny such diagnoses. The risk of applicants accessing boys in institutional settings could be significantly reduced by using the Abel Screen in such settings. 1 table and 15 references

There is also profiling: http://www.child-safety-for-parents.com/profile-of-a-pedophile.html
http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm
This method may not be 100% accurate but it is used by the authorities to build a case and to look for suspects.

A large percentage were physically abused as children, so they might have otherwise turned out normal with a different upbringing.
There is truth in that statement.
According to Dr. Herbert Wagemaker, a renowned psychiatrist and author, pedophilia appears to run in families. In fact, statistics show that boys who suffered molestation often grow up and commit the same type of crime
http://childprotection.lifetips.com/cat/63575/pedophile-search-and-statistics/index.html

Even if it was possible to identify individuals at risk, ultimately it's a decision they make to commit the act. Most people have urges they don't act on.
There are links in the post that shows it is possible you'd identify individuals.
The urge of a pedophile is very different then the urge to cheat on a diet.

I may want to beat the hell out of the Alabama fan that was trashing Tebow, but I wouldn't do it. Only a small percentage of people actually act on their urges and commit a serious illegal act.
The urge to beat the Bama fan or some other illegal acts are way different then the urge to molest a child. The beating urge is short term and out of emotion. The pedophiles urge is long term and is methodically thought out and carried out.

[QUOTE="Gatorpika"]To try to compel them to self castrate or whatever without considering their will to resist those urges would be wrong.

First if all the chemical castration can be in some cases an option and in other mandatory. Which way it goes depends on the circumstances.

When it comes to the pedophile's rights there there is a line that they cross where their rights are no longer a concern.

There are organize rings where member a kidnap children or force there own children into the sex trade. They make movies of the molestation, make arrangements for sexual encounters to share their victims, and in some cases make business deals to buy/sell/trade their victims. When some of these children reach puberty they are thrown out like garbage or in some cases killed. In other cases where it is a individual pedophile is operating alone he goes from child to child employing various methods (threat of death to a pet, family member, to the victim) to ensure their silence. In a lot if cases just the shame of the act keeps the victim silent. It is very likely the Bama beating victim can defend themselves and recover from the beating.

A final thought on this post. The victims of pedophiles are defenseless and are most likely going to suffer from the pedophilia acts for the rest of their lives.

By the way six years ago some driving through my neighborhood attempted to kidnap my then six year old daughter from my drive way. Thankfully my 90 lb German Shepherd put a stop to it. Since I am not wealthy or live in a gated community I do not believe the motive of the attempted kidnapping was for ransom.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Please note I did not say what you posted.
You only listed one option (enforced confinement) but not the other option (enforced treatment). You should not split/parse a statement to make mean what you want it to.

It doesn't matter. Any time you force someone to do something, it's punishment. If you force someone to do something and that person hasn't committed a crime, I tend to find that particularly messed up and very anti-American.

[northgagator]

It doesn't matter. Any time you force someone to do something, it's punishment. If you force someone to do something and that person hasn't committed a crime, I tend to find that particularly messed up and very anti-American.

So you are saying that if a doctor or therapist, or a probation officier know that a person is dangerous to themselves or to the public that since they have not done anything wrong they should let them out in to the general public jump into traffic, or jump in front of a train, or jump off a builing, or open a vein in the bathtub, or eat a gun. Wait a minute how about pushing someone into traffic, or push someone in front of a train, or push someone off a builing, or slice n dice someone, or go on a shoot spree, or molest a child, or rape a woman. Does that sound punishment, normal, and American to you?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

So you are saying that if a doctor or therapist, or a probation officier know that a person is dangerous to themselves or to the public that since they have not done anything wrong they should let them out in to the general public jump into traffic, or jump in front of a train, or jump off a builing, or open a vein in the bathtub, or eat a gun. Wait a minute how about pushing someone into traffic, or push someone in front of a train, or push someone off a builing, or slice n dice someone, or go on a shoot spree, or molest a child, or rape a woman. Does that sound punishment, normal, and American to you?

That scenario is very, very different than what you described earlier.

[northgagator]

That scenario is very, very different than what you described earlier.

Not really.
Who do think will be doing the screening?
It will be the same people that I listed in my lady post.

How do you think someone will be deemed to be a danger to themselves?
By being part of a screening process.

How does this impact a person who is screened/evaluated and is deemed to be a pedophile who most likely will go out and sexually molest a child (if hasn't done so already and never got caught)?
He is confined and is prevented from sexually molesting a child (or more children)

If he is deemed to be a low risk he should get the proper mandated treatment and be allowed to be free to live like any other private citizen (restrictions and probation may be required).

If he violates the restrictions or probation the there should be logical consequences.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Sure.

Let's evaluate everyone for every potential crime. This sounds totally congruent with liberty.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Considering how crappy we are at judging and punishing people when a crime *has* been committed, it's even more horrifying to think of how bad we'd be at punishing people who haven't committed any crime at all.

The notion is frankly pretty disgusting.

[Tebowism0823]

I'd much rather see my tax dollars support law enforcement efforts in this area instead of the phony "war" on drugs. Keep stinging until you get 'em all.

You'll never get them all.

[northgagator]

Sure.

Let's evaluate everyone for every potential crime. This sounds totally congruent with liberty.

First of all I never advocated mandatory screening for everyone.

However, if someone:
1, Volunteers for screening then what is the harm?
2, Is pulled in because of strange behavior (happens every day) is under a court order for screening (happens a lot) then we have a chance to help someone before he harms someone or continues to harm more people.

By the way most states have laws on the books where therapist, doctors, councilors, and teachers are required to report to the proper authorities if a person is a danger to them selves or society. A report like this does lead a lot of people being taken in (voluntarily or against their will) for evaluation/screening.

This is like the probable cause item in the US Constutition.
There has to be a probable cause for such a screening because this screening does enter into the area of privacy.

So you really do not have to worry about the Gestapo pulling you out of your bed at night, be force to a pedofile screening, and having your nads fried off. Unlese there is a probable cause for this action.

[northgagator]

Considering how crappy we are at judging and punishing people when a crime *has* been committed, it's even more horrifying to think of how bad we'd be at punishing people who haven't committed any crime at all.

The notion is frankly pretty disgusting.

Unfortunately innocent people go to prison/jail in this country.

Also unfortunately everday many people commit crimes and are never arrested.

Adequate screening may help more people than harm.
1, Hopefully fewer children get molested.
2, People who are cursed with this disease will be identified and get the treatment before (hopefully) molest children or more children.
3, The people who never acted out on their disease wil get treatment to where they can live happy and productive lives in society.
4, The people wo did act out on thier disease will get the treatment where when they get released from confinement they too can live happy and productive lives in society.

Two point to remember.
1, Chemical castration is not the only option with treatment. There are other treatments that maybe successful. The chemical castration should be used when and where deemed necessary.
2, Not all pedophiles get treatment when in jail/prision. Some states do not have the programs or have laws about forcing treatment. Unfortunately some of these people get out of prision when their time is done and they hit the streets looking for young children.

The current status quo is not helping anyone.
We will always have pedophiles in our human race.
The lack of effective identification and treatment hurts the pedofile, the children they molest, and the parents/siblings of those children.

Any change that is made must respect the Fourth Amendment and at the same time protect the rights of all citizens. The only way to do this is to eleminate unreasonable searches and allow reseasonable searches. This way the peoples life and well being are protected and their privacy is also protected. It is a difficult balancing act.and it should never stop just because it is difficult. Why the innocent can go to jail, the guilty can go free, and a child and its family can be badly injured. All items have to be in balance.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Again, you can have absolute security or absolute liberty. Proactive punishment is a ridiculous concept.

[northgagator]

Again, you can have absolute security or absolute liberty. Proactive punishment is a ridiculous concept.

You ignored every thing in my last post.

We are discussing a situation (pedophilia) where the scales of justice are out balance.

As you stated some innocent people are in jail.
As I stated some guilty people are free.
It is a fact that children were, are, and will be molested by pedophiles.
I believe we are in agreement on all three points.

I support an idea that provides treatment to pedophiles and a hope for a reduction in the number of children being sexually molested (or worst).
I also support that this idea have methods to safe guard the the 4th amendments rights of unreasonable search. Thus to ensure that the innocent do not go to jail.
You disagree because of a fear that there could be a lost of freedom, which is a valid concern. But you do not offer a solution. In this case a lack of a solution keeps the scales of justice out of balance.

Is your solution that we do nothing?

By doing nothing we lose freedom.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Our solution is to punish people who commit crimes. That has always been our solution.

Now if you want to start screening and then punishing for potential criminals, maybe you can found some other country, because there's still at least a semblance of freedom in this one.

In your country you can do psychological / genetic testing to see who might commit crime X or crime Y and punish them on the spot, but I'm sorry, I'm not game. Your country might be free(r) from crime, but it would also be Hell on earth.