How Bad Is It Going To Get?

[Burke]

The coming crash?

We're borrowing over 40% of what the Federal govt is spending.

With debts and liabilities exceeding the GDP of the world, at the least.

Think there is going to be some kind of magical "recovery" and everything is going to be great again?

We see cities going bankrupt, states on the verge of it, and the Federal govt printing money like mad to pay its debts, which will eventually cause the dollar to collapse if it doesn't stop.

Where is it going to end?

Social unrest and riots degenerating into a police state?

Nations going to war fighting over scarce natural resources?

With nukes?

What?

Anyone in the mood to laugh at we "the sky is falling crowd" now?

Almost everyone I know with a brain is preparing somehow, even if it means leaving the country.

[bluelang]

Anyone in the mood to laugh at we "the sky is falling crowd" now?

Almost everyone I know with a brain is preparing somehow, even if it means leaving the country.

Still laughing at you. :yes::laugh: Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Signed,

America

[Burke]

Yes, but when we all leave, who are you going to leech off of then?

[ThePlayer]

Yes, but when we all leave, who are you going to leech off of then?

Exactly...you never miss a billionaire...until he's gone.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Yes, but when we all leave, who are you going to leech off of then?

You seem to forget that U.S. foreign policy is a reflection of U.S. domestic policy. When there's nothing left to leech at home, they'll simply print up the necessary funds and inflate the money supply enough to use the U.S. military as a mechanism to leech off of foreigners, as it currently does now on behalf of U.S. corporations. You can't get away. They'll simply claim that the country you live in is harboring illusory Al-Qaeda terrorists, the bombs will fall, mercenaries will move in to enforce U.S. demands, and you'll have to leave again.

Leeches know no boundaries and have all the angles figured out.

[sierragator]

Someone gets to live out their Mad Max fantasies. The Mayans were only off a few months.....

[GatorAbe7]

I'm hearing a lot more talking about leaving the U.S. lately (lately being since 2006.) I'm not sure where it's worth going. I've lived in 3 other countries, 2 on different continents and can't say that elsewhere is better, or even comes close most days. I'm holding my ground here.

[busigator96]

Thevenusproject.com

[Burke]

The question, really, is how bad is it going to get?

Think we will ever recover?

If so, why?

[Matthanuf06]

Rates will rise, dollar will collapse, inflation will kick in big time.

Gas lines, bread lines, entitlements eliminated...

[wargunfan]

Buying small denomination, circulated silver coins (dimes, quarters, halves) as a hedge against inflation. It's gonna be hard on fixed income Americans who receive their pensions in dollars. They will be driven into the arms of the mother state.

[bluelang]

It has gotten slowly better since 08 and it'll continue to do so. We still have a lot of ground to make up from the tech and housing busts. We face big challenges with an aging population and increasing resource contention from emerging economies, but it's nothing we can't - and won't - overcome.

[ChartsandGrafs]

It has gotten slowly better since 08 and it'll continue to do so. We still have a lot of ground to make up from the tech and housing busts. We face big challenges with an aging population and increasing resource contention from emerging economies, but it's nothing we can't - and won't - overcome.

What's better about it, exactly? We have all the same wars, occupations, an encroaching police state, surveillance, debt, inflation, trade imbalances, drone attacks, government corruption and scandals, and a basket case economy based on consumption rather than production.

What kind of fantasy world do you live in where everything is better?

[Burke]

"Overcome" the problems.

How?

More rape the rich?

Money printing?

That's what I'm expecting.

Dems get power by demonizing the rich, screwing things up worse, demonizing them more, screwing it up even worse . . . and on and on, etc .

Class warfare here long ago degenerated into every kind of interest group warfare possible. Everyone fighting over whose ox should be gored.

Who is going to be working and producing?

It's going to get ugly.

Just like the Left has always wanted.

We'll need a police state to control it all, they will be claiming.

Just watch.

The Dems WANT a crash.

[ChartsandGrafs]

The Dems WANT a crash.

Indeed.

Rahm Emanuel:

"Never let a crisis go to waste."

This is the mindset of these people. A crash means they'll be able to reform America and to consolidate government power, just as the Great Depression was engineered to allow.

But you're fooling yourself if you think this is only coming from Democrats. The political system in this country is a two-headed duopoly that works to pursue the same agenda. Just take note of how Barack Obama campaigned in 2008 on being the anti-Bush and changing the climate in Washington from what it had been for the previous eight years, and then how, once elected, he basically carried on with all of Bush's policy agenda. It was a completely seamless transition because there was essentially no change in government. The only think that changed were the smiling, nodding faces.

[Burke]

"The U.S. economy is lost, full stop. No matter what happens, you know? Whether the clowns in Washington make it worse or better, it`s irrelevant.

"America is now the largest debtor in the history of the world. We are increasing our debts at over 1 trillion US dollars every year. This is not going to be fun. - in BBC

"Related: SPDR Dow Jones Industrial Average ETF (DIA), SPDR SP 500 ETF (SPY)

"Jim Rogers is an author, financial commentator and successful international investor. He has been frequently featured in Time, The New York Times, Barron’s, Forbes, Fortune, The Wall Street Journal, The Financial Times and is a regular guest on Bloomberg and CNBC."

http://jimrogers-investments.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-us-economy-is-lost.html?m=1

[rpmGator]

Ain't skeered. Won't be moving out of state, must less out of nation. They can only kill me once, no matter what they use...

[g8orbill]

I won't leave, I will just restructure so as to give the guvment as little of my money as possible

[GatorRade]

Exactly...you never miss a billionaire...until he's gone.

Billionaires are usually quite valuable, but I think this board has the wrong idea about why. It has nothing to do with the money, which is just a pile of IOUs. The reasons that they are valuable are the things that they exchanged for the money. That is where the value is.

[Burke]

Seems like most here are a herd being led to slaughter.

One poster declares boldly that we shall overcome, but makes no suggestions how.

The solution is a free market revolution, but outside Objectivism, virtually no one is saying that.

[GatorRade]

Seems like most here are a herd being led to slaughter.

One poster declares boldly that we shall overcome, but makes no suggestions how.

The solution is a free market revolution, but outside Objectivism, virtually no one is saying that.

These are the assertions that you've made repeatedly on here, and clearly you are convinced you are right. However, I am still skeptical that (a) you've identified a problem that is catastrophic and (b) that anyone needs to know "how" to overcome it in order for us to overcome it. There was a time that no one knew how to overcome polio, hypothermia, scurvy, depression, breech birth, or lemons that were too sour. We made it through. If you are really worried about this issue, watch Japan. They have twice the debt/GDP ratio that we have.

[Burke]

Nice to see some optimism, but you don't write anything to support it.

[Swampmaster]

Almost everyone I know with a brain is preparing somehow, even if it means leaving the country.

which is the best country to move if the economy collapses?

[wgbgator]

Nice to see some optimism, but you don't write anything to support it.

Maybe he could post today's jobs report? 155,000 jobs added, etc ....

[ChartsandGrafs]

155,000 jobs added without any context makes for some nice government propaganda, but considering how much money the government is spending into the economy well over their budget, that's pretty anemic job growth.

At this rate, it'll only cost us a few trillion more to get us back to 6 percent unemployment.

[wgbgator]

155,000 jobs added without any context makes for some nice government propaganda, but considering how much money the government is spending into the economy well over their budget, that's pretty anemic job growth.

At this rate, it'll only cost us a few trillion more to get us back to 6 percent unemployment.

Well, the context would be looking at the last 4 -5 years or so.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Well, the context would be looking at the last 4 -5 years or so.

I'm curious, why would you limit the context to that specific time frame? The government has been overspending far longer than that and job growth has been putrid relative to population growth and government expenditures for over a decade now.

Either way, 155,000 jobs added, if the numbers are to be believed, is hot garbage. With the insane amount of money the U.S. government is spending, we should be seeing far more job growth. Our economy is essentially walking dead.

[wgbgator]

I'm curious, why would you limit the context to that specific time frame? The government has been overspending far longer than that and job growth has been putrid relative to population growth and government expenditures for over a decade now.

Either way, 155,000 jobs added, if the numbers are to be believed, is hot garbage. With the insane amount of money the U.S. government is spending, we should be seeing far more job growth. Our economy is essentially walking dead.

Because that's when the financial system went into panic? I mean, how much "context" are you looking for?

[ChartsandGrafs]

Because that's when the financial system went into panic? I mean, how much "context" are you looking for?

I'll settle for just basic common sense context at this juncture.

The point is, the U.S. economy has been in decline for far longer than just 4-5 years. As it was, the panic in the financial system and subsequent meltdown in 2008 was just a symptom of a much greater problem, and that problem is the fact that the U.S. economy is no longer productive enough to sustain the lifestyle of Americans or our government's spending habits without blowing bubbles, borrowing, inflating, and the banking/financial system engaging in mass corruption. This problem goes back to well before even Clinton's two terms.

I don't think a 4-5 year window with which to judge our "recovery" can provide any real answers.

[wgbgator]

I'll settle for just basic common sense context at this juncture.

The point is, the U.S. economy has been in decline for far longer than just 4-5 years. As it was, the panic in the financial system and subsequent meltdown in 2008 was just a symptom of a much greater problem, and that problem is the fact that the U.S. economy is no longer productive enough to sustain the lifestyle of Americans or our government's spending habits without blowing bubbles, borrowing, inflating, and the banking/financial system engaging in mass corruption. This problem goes back to well before even Clinton's two terms.

I don't think a 4-5 year window with which to judge our "recovery" can provide any real answers.

Isn't "decline" something that depends on context too? Yeah, I doubt the US economy is going to experience the kind of growth from the late 19th century or the 20 years post WWII in the 20th. Yeah, I suppose things look grim compared to some of the most unprecedented periods of economic growth in world history. That doesnt mean the economy is headed for collapse or is "walking dead" though.