"What Stalled Congress On The Fiscal Cliff?"

[philnotfil]

Interesting interview with Norm Ornstein from the American Enterprise Institute.

npr.org (http://www.npr.org/2012/12/31/168367396/what-stalled-congress-on-the-fiscal-cliff)

Congress has had its ups and downs, but this is the least productive period, not just in numbers of bills enacted, but in the breadth, depth and scope of what's been done in our lifetimes. It's a different period. Divided government, in the past, worked often. The two parties felt they were in the same boat together. Now, put them in the same boat and each one wants to drill a hole in the bottom so that the boat will sink.

It's a Republican Party problem more than anything else and it's partly driven by ideology, partly driven by the outside pressures. They're in districts where the primary is all that matters and the wind machine outside, talk radio and the like, pulls them in a different direction. But it's an attitude of a parliamentary minority party - oppose reflexively, a tribal attitude, if this president is for it, we're against it - that makes compromise so much more difficult than we are used to over the last 50 years.

SIEGEL: You've been talking about the House and the Senate. We hear about the increased use of the threatened filibuster or the hold. Do these actually account for the lack productivity in the Congress?

ORNSTEIN: They have a big impact on the outcome. We've seen the filibuster used in ways in the last five years that it had never been used throughout the history of the United States. Not as an expression of a minority feeling intensely about a big issue, but as a simple weapon of pure obstruction on routine matters - bills that passed in the end unanimously, nominations the same way - because the most precious commodity if you wanted to do something is floor time and they soaked up a lot of floor time.

[JerseyGator01]

What a warped view! The author needs to get out more. I believe I read that 37 states are now one-party states. It's not ideology, its the laws that favor incumbents who grossly outspend the competition.

The US Senate might be the most fiscally incompetent body in world history in terms of their lack of budgeting skills. Too many lawyers, too few accountants (5 in the last house) who have never run a real business in their lives.

Plus we have a whack job left president who can't even get ONE vote in the Dem-controlled senate on his budgets. Laughable.

Meanwhile, in Jersey, 78% or so of lobbying expenses come from unions. But somehow that's not a problem per the whack job left media.

CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!

[philnotfil]

What a warped view! The author needs to get out more. I believe I read that 37 states are now one-party states. It's not ideology, its the laws that favor incumbents who grossly outspend the competition.


I believe that is what he is addressing when he says:
They're in districts where the primary is all that matters and the wind machine outside, talk radio and the like, pulls them in a different direction.

[oaklandroadie]

So if the primary is what matters, isn't that making the election more local, thus increasing democracy?

[Row6]

So if the primary is what matters, isn't that making the election more local, thus increasing democracy?

How are primaries more "local"?

[G8trGr8t]

Neither party has the courage to face reality of limited resources requiring budget cuts and smaller gubmnt is what is stalling the system but that isn't long enough or partisan enough for MSM. Lack of courage is directly related to desire to have power so being in power is more important to both parties than fixing the problem

[Dreamliner]

Ornstein is a goofball. He's been a dog-in-heat after Republicans for awhile. He's so transparent in that 'ideology' and 'outside pressures' obviously apply equally to the Democrats.

[oaklandroadie]

How are primaries more "local"?

Voters have greater control over whom their candidate will be in a strong primary system. Perhaps you support the Euro way of candidate lists?

[Row6]

Ornstein is a goofball. He's been a dog-in-heat after Republicans for awhile. He's so transparent in that 'ideology' and 'outside pressures' obviously apply equally to the Democrats.

You obviously need to research the issue. Start with the number of filibusters and holds in the Senate per term and the number of party line votes in both houses when the presidency is held by the other party. Whether one agrees with votes on specific issues or not, it's a fair measure of the willingness to compromise and work across the aisle.

[Dreamliner]

You obviously need to research the issue. Start with the number of filibusters and holds in the Senate per term and the number of party line votes in both houses when the presidency is held by the other party. Whether one agrees with votes on specific issues or not, it's a fair measure of the willingness to compromise and work across the aisle.

No Democrat could have said it better.

[Row6]

No Democrat could have said it better.

I didn't expect an informed reply.

[Dreamliner]

I didn't expect an informed reply.

Not that I expected anything of substance from the party that always gets to blame everything on the minority party.

[gatorman_07732]

Ole Phil with another Republican hit piece. Go figure

[Dreamliner]

"Last-minute compromise could face stiff opposition from BOTH [CAPS mine] parties."

http://www.yahoonews.com

Which parties are they talking about, the Republicans and the Republicans ?*

*sarcasm

[gatorman_07732]

You obviously need to research the issue. Start with the number of filibusters and holds in the Senate per term and the number of party line votes in both houses when the presidency is held by the other party. Whether one agrees with votes on specific issues or not, it's a fair measure of the willingness to compromise and work across the aisle.

Your lack of research is duly noted, because the House passed a bill long ago that went to the Senate just to sit on Harry's desk and die.

[Row6]

Voters have greater control over whom their candidate will be in a strong primary system. Perhaps you support the Euro way of candidate lists?.

They are still based on the same geographical area as the general election. I don't get it.

I also don't know what the "Euro way of candidate lists" is.

[philnotfil]

Ole Phil with another Republican hit piece. Go figure

I'll keep bashing them until they start acting like conservatives again.

[Row6]

Your lack of research is duly noted, because the House passed a bill long ago that went to the Senate just to sit on Harry's desk and die.

As did the corresponding Senate bill in the house. Despite the thread title, the OP discusses the long standing dysfunction of congress caused primarily by republican tactics, ideology, and safe seats. This is a factual matter really checked by the data I suggested, as well as data on republican seats in safe districts vs democrats in safe districts.

[Row6]

By the way, the Senate bill would have.almost certainly passed if allowed to come to a vote in the house. the same was not expected if the house bill was allowed a vote in the Senate.

[gatorman_07732]

As did the corresponding Senate bill in the house. Despite the thread title, the OP discusses the long standing dysfunction of congress caused primarily by republican tactics, ideology, and safe seats. This is a factual matter really checked by the data I suggested, as well as data on republican seats in safe districts vs democrats in safe districts.

Do you know how long ago the House sent it to the Senate? You accuse someone of research and you did the same thing

[gatorman_07732]

I'll keep bashing them until they start acting like conservatives again.

Sorry but you're just wrong on this issue. They sent a bill to the senate a long time ago and if the Senate would have played ball this whole situation would have been avoided. Instead, Harry Reid refused to let it come up for a vote.

[gatorman_07732]

By the way, the Senate bill would have.almost certainly passed if allowed to come to a vote in the house. the same was not expected if the house bill was allowed a vote in the Senate.

Uh, what exactly did the Senate pass? It certainly wasn't anything resembling a budget of any kind.

[busigator96]

They haven't passed a budget the last 4 years

[gatorman_07732]

They haven't passed a budget the last 4 years

And that's a fact jack

[busigator96]

We have spineless leaders on both sides of the aisle.

[philnotfil]

We have spineless leaders on both sides of the aisle.

We would be better off if that was true. We have leaders on both sides of the aisle who are putting their party ahead of our country.

[gatorman_07732]

We would be better off if that was true. We have leaders on both sides of the aisle who are putting their party ahead of our country.

What kills me is you unwillingless to look at the facts regarding the substance of which you started a thread. If you did you would see the House was dealing with this issue long ago.

[busigator96]

We would be better off if that was true. We have leaders on both sides of the aisle who are putting their party ahead of our country.

Same thing...they are not leading out of fear not getting reelected

[Row6]

By the way, the Senate bill would have.almost certainly passed if allowed to come to a vote in the house. the same was not expected if the house bill was allowed a vote in the Senate.

[philnotfil]

What kills me is you unwillingless to look at the facts regarding the substance of which you started a thread. If you did you would see the House was dealing with this issue long ago.

That isn't what this thread is about, have you read the interview that this thread is about?

[gatorman_07732]

That isn't what this thread is about, have you read the interview that this thread is about?

Yes I have and it's a farce because the whole problem can be pin pointed to one person that bottlenecked everything, and that is Harry Reid. The whole interview in disingenuous.
There is a whole list of bills that came out of the House and died in the Senate just simply by sitting on Harry's desk, but hey keep up your one sided bogus attacks.

[ncgatr1]

Shocking! It's The Repubs fault we are here the first place, lets just forget about all the speeding which has occurred over the last 4 years. This thread is garbage.

[Row6]

Uh, what exactly did the Senate pass? It certainly wasn't anything resembling a budget of any kind.

They passed a bill maintaining taxes were they are for all but those making above $250k, which is what the current wrangling is about, but the budget. The OP article is about the dysfunctional congress caused by republican in both the house and Senate. The data on this is clear.

[Dreamliner]

Only Democrats are allowed to be guided in their actions by ideology and pressure from constituents. When the Republicans do it they're being obstructionists.

[gatorman_07732]

They passed a bill maintaining taxes were they are for all but those making above $250k, which is what the current wrangling is about, but the budget. The OP article is about the dysfunctional congress caused by republican in both the house and Senate. The data on this is clear.

So link to your proof.....
What you post makes no sense

[oragator1]

Up or down vote in the house on the senate bill in an hour.

And republicans didn't lose this fight, they got the spending cuts to avoid the sequester timed to when the debt ceiling has to be upped again.
That is going to be the real war, will make this look like a a sunday afternoon tea party.