Advice from parents with teenage daughters

[StrangeGator]

Daughter just came home from her first semester at college requesting a visit to the gynecologist so she could get birth control pills because "it helps clear up acne." I have no problem with this. Her acne isn't nearly as bad as her brothers, but she's a pretty girl who is very conscious of her looks. There is also the possibility that she needs the pills for their intended, on-label use. I have no problem with that either, but she should be more candid with her mother about that. Whether she's being straight with us or not, should we insist that she go to a dermatologist, or do we allow her to continue with this possible charade so she can have that very important private talk with her gynecologist? If she is sexually active, she's not going to get very helpful advice from a dermatologist, even if he is willing to write a prescription for off-label use of BC pills.

FWIW, she is probably not very experienced and was a late bloomer. Didn't get her period until almost 14 (the day of her Bat Mitzvah no less). She had her first date last year, and to my knowledge that was her only date through high school. She has been hanging out at frat houses, so it's not out of the question. I'm okay with it, I just wish she could be more open with her mom. I'm staying on the sidelines on this one. She does not want me to know about this, even it really is about acne.

[G8RNTN]

Not sure how to help this case. But I think I would talk with the wife and let her explain a little more about birth control, because I think they say when u take it and miss it or come off of it, that's when your the most fertile and likely to get pregnant. So IF she is sexually active this may help with that. Good luck.... My daughter is 10 so my days are just around the corner.

[GatorAbe7]

Daughter just came home from her first semester at college requesting a visit to the gynecologist so she could get birth control pills because "it helps clear up acne." I have no problem with this. Her acne isn't nearly as bad as her brothers, but she's a pretty girl who is very conscious of her looks. There is also the possibility that she needs the pills for their intended, on-label use. I have no problem with that either, but she should be more candid with her mother about that. Whether she's being straight with us or not, should we insist that she go to a dermatologist, or do we allow her to continue with this possible charade so she can have that very important private talk with her gynecologist? If she is sexually active, she's not going to get very helpful advice from a dermatologist, even if he is willing to write a prescription for off-label use of BC pills.

FWIW, she is probably not very experienced and was a late bloomer. Didn't get her period until almost 14 (the day of her Bat Mitzvah no less). She had her first date last year, and to my knowledge that was her only date through high school. She has been hanging out at frat houses, so it's not out of the question. I'm okay with it, I just wish she could be more open with her mom. I'm staying on the sidelines on this one. She does not want me to know about this, even it really is about acne.

I already see this thread having the same fate as the porn thread.

First off, if she wants birth control to clear up acne, why don't you get her acne medication. Why do you really think she needs birth control? Birth control for acne is the female equivalent of guys liking hooters for their wings :roll: or Playboy for the articles :roll:.

To be honest I am surprised you as her father are cool with her using the pills for their intended use. Even Father's of sexually active daughters I know at least point up a fatherly/manly front that they don't want their little girls sleeping with someone, much less a frat house full of unaccountable dudes. And when the daughters defiantly or unwittingly become sexually active it's out of the father's hands anyway and they go about ignoring the issue.

At this point I say make her come clean abut what's blatantly obvious or the joke is entirely on you.

[Jupgator]

My wife and I raised 2 daughters (both attended UF). Fortunately they weren't sexually active in HS, although one may have a couple times as a senior), but were in college. My advise is for mom to have that talk, and if she isn't up to it, do it yourself. Of course it is about being smart about the sex. Good luck.

[GatorAbe7]

When you guys vaguely say "have that talk" or "talk about sex" as if it's only a casual talk, what do you guys actually talk about?

My talk goes like this: "You are too young for sex. Thus, I won't have you on any birth control. If a pregnancy results we (your parents) and you will work with a family attorney to grant joint custody of the child to us. This is because you don't have the financial means to raise a child and we will heavily contribute to parenting or completely take over as necessary."

edit: See GatorSaint's post below for a more polite way to go about this.

[LeafUF]

When you guys vaguely say "have that talk" or "talk about sex" as if it's only a casual talk, what do you guys actually talk about?

My talk goes like this: "You are too young for sex. Thus, I won't have you on any birth control. If a pregnancy results we (your parents) and you will work with a family attorney to grant joint custody of the child to us. This is because you don't have the financial means to raise a child and we will heavily contribute to parenting or completely take over as necessary."

Is this what you tell your adult daughter who no longer lives under your roof while she is away at college? If so, when are you not too young for sex?

[GatorAbe7]

Is this what you tell your adult daughter who no longer lives under your roof while she is away at college? If so, when are you not too young for sex?

Paying her school bills grants the parent input into their life. And furthermore, her having the choice to come back under the parents roof, also grants more input, mostly when she is under the roof. If her behavior results in a pregnancy I sure as hell step in with more input. You tell me if a 19/18 year old without a salary job, or the time for a salary job has the means to raise an infant.

As maturity takes place later and later in life, it's unfortunate that our hormones don't follow along.

[LAGatorDoc]

As a dermatologist, I can attest many girls and women with hormonal acne do respond very well to birth control pills (we call them OCPs or oral contraceptive pills). If her acne is cyclical (worse with or just before her menstraul cycle), then OCPs are the best treatment for acne. Hormonal acne in women is one of the most difficult to treat. Accutane which is the most permanent treatment for severe or scarring acne can clear it for a year or two or 5 but it always comes back eventually. What I tend to do is give a topical treatment for the morning and for the night, tell the teenager/woman to see their gyno to get an OCP that can control acne (ortho tricycline/or ortho tricyclin lo or Yaz or Yazmin- derms don't prescribe it because they need a full gyno exam to make sure they are healthy). Also they need to go over the risks of the OCP with them and assess their risk factors for blood clots, etc.

If that doesn't control it in 3-4 months, we add an antibiotic, but the goal is to get them clear, then wean off all meds (antibiotics, topicals), and just keep them clear with OCP. Some women need the added medication spironolactone (a diuretic that blocks testosterone) if they have breakthrough testosterone even with the OCP. Can't get pregnant on spironolactone because it can cause male fetuses hermaphrodites because it would block their testosterone. Drosperinone is similar to spironolactone and it is actually a component of Yaz and Yazmin, but in some women, still not enough of a testosterone blocker to control their acne.

My caveat is, I am not giving your daughter medical advice, and I am not recommending this for your daughter. I am just attesting to the role of hormones in acne, especially in women, and the role of OCPs as a valid acne treatment in those whose hormones play a role. I see many 30-40 yr old women with acne that is worsening because their estrogens decreasing and progesterone and testosterone is increasing, and it is obviously a common problem in teenagers and early 20yr old women.

Since she is in college, she can pick up an OCP at her student health center for $10 or less. The fact that she is telling you means that she is a good girl. It has the added benefit of not ending her college career early due to pregnancy, just in case. Even good girls can make mistakes, especially in college (that's what college is for).

Hope this helps.

[lurkingator1]

I already see this thread having the same fate as the porn thread.

First off, if she wants birth control to clear up acne, why don't you get her acne medication. Why do you really think she needs birth control? Birth control for acne is the female equivalent of guys liking hooters for their wings :roll: or Playboy for the articles :roll:.

To be honest I am surprised you as her father are cool with her using the pills for their intended use. Even Father's of sexually active daughters I know at least point up a fatherly/manly front that they don't want their little girls sleeping with someone, much less a frat house full of unaccountable dudes. And when the daughters defiantly or unwittingly become sexually active it's out of the father's hands anyway and they go about ignoring the issue.

At this point I say make her come clean abut what's blatantly obvious or the joke is entirely on you.


after this responce nothing else really needs to be added! :wave:

[LeafUF]

Paying her school bills grants the parent input into their life. And furthermore, her having the choice to come back under the parents roof, also grants more input, mostly when she is under the roof. If her behavior results in a pregnancy I sure as hell step in with more input. You tell me if a 19/18 year old without a salary job, or the time for a salary job has the means to raise an infant.

As maturity takes place later and later in life, it's unfortunate that our hormones don't follow along.

I dont have kids so I have no idea how I would handle the situation I just think its extremely difficult for a parent to dictate what their child does in their daily life while they are living on their own in college. Yes you deserve input into their lives, however, I happen to fall in line with Strange in that I think it would be better to let her start taking birth control after talking to her doctor and her mother about it. By just saying you aren't old enough to have sex you really are not providing any helpful or responsible information about it should she not take your advice. You are basically saying dont do it and if you dont listen your punishment is getting pregnant and having a baby that we will raise for you because you shouldnt be having sex or getting pregnant in the first place.

[GatorSaint]

What your hormones tell you and what your head tells you are two different things when you are a teenager.

The dilemna is that parents don't want to encourage sexual activity by handing kids who "aren't ready for sex" (which is joke, obviously their biology is telling them something different) birth control.

On the other hand, hoping that "young adults" are not going to screw it up (no pun intended) and leave mom and dad on the hook for taking care of an unplanned pregnancy, is a crap shoot.

If the solution is as easy as telling them you will just take their child from them, then good luck with that.

Reality has hit me in the face like a glass of cold water as my 15 yr. old daughter started dating recently....

My wife and I agreed that she could date, but it either is at my house where I am in control (because his parents won't be the one taking care of an unplanned pregnancy and therefore I will not leave it up to them as they already have a daughter who did just that) or in public where we provide the transportation to and from.

We sat down with her and the boy who likes her and discussed the terms with them and indicated they are non-negotiable. This is to both lay everything out ahead of time and also to let him know that he won't be getting her alone anytime soon if ever unless they try something at school. (He has no car currently and doesn't live close). The thought is that if he is just around for sex, he will look elsewhere for a girl whose parents don't care as much. (He sheepishly indicated that the parents of other girls he had dated had never done such a thing.)

However this is not a good solution for the long term, so we both have accepted after speaking with our daughter that if she can't come to mom and ASK for birth control before having sex, its on her.

Good parenting means laying out expectations and the consequences if they are not met. Responsibility does not mean no sex before marriage (good luck with that if that's your solution!), but rather responsible sex.

The problem is that expecting two teenagers whose bodies are doused in hormones telling them to procreate 24/7 to not have sex is about impossible.

Its just not realistic, practical, or smart. The consequences for a young, unwed mother, her parents, and society in general are tremendous in this day and age.

We'd rather she did the responsible thing and ask for birth control when she feels she is ready. If we took that responsibility away from her, we are just creating adults who can't handle being responsible - and who will eventually fail accepting responsibility somewhere else down the line in possibly a more serious situation where others, outside their family, are impacted.

[hgators]

My duaghter's a senior in HS and I just want to cry...

[Jupgator]

Good advice in this thread. GatorSaint said it very very well. Your daughter may say its her life, but not true. A pregnancy will not only negatively impact her life and possibly prevent her from her dreams, but could greatly negatively impact the parents, and the kid.

[swampbabe]

Paying her school bills grants the parent input into their life. And furthermore, her having the choice to come back under the parents roof, also grants more input, mostly when she is under the roof. If her behavior results in a pregnancy I sure as hell step in with more input. You tell me if a 19/18 year old without a salary job, or the time for a salary job has the means to raise an infant.

As maturity takes place later and later in life, it's unfortunate that our hormones don't follow along.

No offense, but this post is pretty clueless on many levels. As the parent of two daughters, one just graduated from UF and another there as a freshman, be honest and upfront is the BEST policy. Putting your head in the sand and saying "don't do it" is a recipe for disaster. My oldest daughter was prescribed birth control pills as a 16 year old for hormonal issues and acne. She was also a bit of a late bloomer and I can say that I have never really worried about her being sexually active but all it takes is ONE bad decision and your life becomes a nightmare. My younger daughter does not take them (that I know of) even though she was prescribed them for the same reason as her sister (periods only once every 6 months).

To sum up, better safe than sorry and yes, sometimes birth control pills are used for other reasons.

[GatoRella]

"If" she is sexually active........lmao

[G8trGr8t]

Let her get the pill but also provide her a box of condoms and explain that although a prregnancy would be bad at this point a incurable STD brings a lifetime of bad situations with absolutely zero upside.

My girls are 14 and 13 and the youngest skipped a grade so will be starting college at 17 and 2 months. Hopefully the relationship I have fostered with them through the years have given them a sense of self worth that will cause them to be very picky wrt quality of guys they date. If not there is always a few big bull sharks that i can chum up when I take the bf offshore

[ursidman]

No offense, but this post is pretty clueless on many levels.

To sum up, better safe than sorry and yes, sometimes birth control pills are used for other reasons.

Would REP if I could.

also no offense intended but this is very good and practical advice. She may resist and not do what her daddy told her not to do 99 times in a row but that 1 time is all it takes to place a life-long burden on her. also, with all due respect, once she starts having sex, she is not likely to quit. To paraphrase from the gun control thread: Better to have it (be taking BC) and not need it than to need it and not have it.

So very relieved to have gotten mine to adulthood without surprise grandkids...... although now I am VERY ready.

[tegator80]

I can only give you my advice (my daughter is now 21). You should feel good about any child (daughters especially) who wants to talk to you about something "adult." Anything you say or do that diminishes this is a step in the wrong direction. Regardless of the motivation, listen intently and assist them in making good decisions. The hardest thing for parents is understanding that their kids aren't dependent on them anymore. I always say to them to think about your past and your early decisions. You survived, and are better educated, than if you just did what your parents demanded of you. Things aren't really that much different, just that we know about the bogyman more.

But I would also add this caveat: child raising is a long-term proposition based on a LOT of love and not a "wait until they get older" exercise. If you give them chances to make decisions along the way (obviously small/simple ones but not in their own minds) then they will be better prepared to tackle more complex ones later. I am saddened when I read an article about some freshman who is hurt or killed because they got away from their parents for the first time and did not really perceive all of the dynamics out in the world. Not to say that all scenarios can be prepared for but at least a semblance of what a better idea looks like over a really stupid one. JMHO

[StrangeGator]

My caveat is, I am not giving your daughter medical advice, and I am not recommending this for your daughter. I am just attesting to the role of hormones in acne, especially in women, and the role of OCPs as a valid acne treatment in those whose hormones play a role.

This is primarily the advice I was looking for. Didn't expect to get an expert medical opinion.

[StrangeGator]

When you guys vaguely say "have that talk" or "talk about sex" as if it's only a casual talk, what do you guys actually talk about?

My talk goes like this: "You are too young for sex. Thus, I won't have you on any birth control. If a pregnancy results we (your parents) and you will work with a family attorney to grant joint custody of the child to us. This is because you don't have the financial means to raise a child and we will heavily contribute to parenting or completely take over as necessary."

edit: See GatorSaint's post below for a more polite way to go about this.

When she was young, we had the first talk with her and her twin brother. Any subsequent talk was fairly hypothetical. At the time she began having her periods, it became very clear that she didn't want to talk to me about any of that kind of thing. She's not completely comfortable talking with her mother. It really hasn't been an urgent matter. We were baffled that she dated so little. She's absolutely stunning and has been approached by photographers and agents. She's also just shy of six feet tall and hung out with 10 or 12 other girls of similar stature, all honor students, athletes, and/or musicians. In other words, the girls the horny guys didn't waste their time with. She did party a bit, but only with her girl posse. They didn't trust guys enough to drink with them.

Is 19 really too young for sex? She's very mature and independent. If she's asking about birth control pills, why would I be concerned about her getting pregnant? Seems like the responsible thing to do. She has a work study job, gets tens of thousands of dollars a year in scholarships, grants and loans, so she has quite a bit of financial responsibility. Even if she didn't, what am I supposed to do to stop her? She's over a thousand miles away.

[oragator1]

If she told you it was for sex what would change, and what positive results would come from it? either she is sexually active or she isn't, it isn't going to change if she confides in you. And if she is, college students are going to do what they are going to do, that's part of going to college, to figure out who you are and what your boundaries are, as a parent you can't change that much, but you can make that experimentation safer through things like BC. If your wife wants to talk to her about it separately that's one thing, but just from the outside it sounds like she is trying to do the right thing without having the embarrassment of telling her parents about it. If you trust her to go away to college as a female and all that comes with that safety wise, trust her here too.
JMHO

[malscott]

What is the relationship you guys have with her? The way I see it, when you're in college would be the time to explore sex. I don't care who's paying for what. Not part of the deal. Her sex life is her concern. If you let her know that and let her know, in no uncertain terms, what your concerns are, that would be the best. If ya can't talk about sex and associated responsibilities now-someone has to break the ice. Toss in to never have sex with a guy that wants to do videos too. That's my biggest fear these days for our daughters-dam cell phones. I would also assume that she isn't completely retarded and she knows between right and wrong and unprotected sex. Giver her a print out with a note if you can't have the talk...best of luck.

[StrangeGator]

after this responce nothing else really needs to be added! :wave:

Except for the astute advice from the dermatologist who is suggesting that we let her get pills for her acne because they work and the other acne medicine she has been taking does not work. She also suffers from menstrual cramps.

And once again, anyone suggesting I have these talks with her isn't getting it. She will not talk to me or listen to me on this particular subject. She will talk about anything and everything else. We have a very open and honest relationship. She recently texted me from Boston to say she and her friends were thinking about taking mushrooms and going to see the Nutcracker. I was not in a position to stop her, so it didn't make sense to say, "Oh no you aren't." I did tell her how positively horrifying a ten foot tall toy soldier would be while you were hallucinating, and suggested that she not go to the show under the influence of mushrooms, but if she absolutely insisted, sit far from the stage, sit very near the exit, and when the unavoidable urge came to run for her life from the theater, that she should try to control herself and walk instead because security would be alerted and she might not make it outside. Talked to her the next day and she said she changed her mind.

She drinks a little, smokes a little weed, and does whatever she does at the MIT frat houses near her dorm. She also has a 3.5 GPA. Seems like she's mostly made good choices so far. Wish I could keep her away from frat houses, but then again, they're MIT frat houses. Do those guys even know how to undo a bra strap without looking up the engineering specs online?

[GatorAbe7]

When she was young, we had the first talk with her and her twin brother. Any subsequent talk was fairly hypothetical. At the time she began having her periods, it because very clear that she didn't want to talk to me about any of that kind of thing. She's not completely comfortable talking with her mother. It really hasn't been an urgent matter. We were baffled that she dated so little. She's absolutely stunning and has been approached by photographers and agents. She's also just shy of six feet tall and hung out with 10 or 12 other girls of similar stature, all honor students, athletes, and/or musicians. In other words, the girls the horny guys didn't waste their time with. She did party a bit, but only with her girl posse. They didn't trust guys enough to drink with them.

Is 19 really too young for sex? She's very mature and independent. If she's asking about birth control pills, why would I be concerned about her getting pregnant? Seems like the responsible thing to do. She has a work study job, gets tens of thousands of dollars a year in scholarships, grants and loans, so she has quite a bit of financial responsibility. Even if she didn't, what am I supposed to do to stop her? She's over a thousand miles away.

If I came across as rude, it's because I draw pretty hard lines on certain subjects and don't negotiate (see Saints post for a more eloquent method of handling), and I was more so responding to the wording of the post than you specifically. At the time it sounded like you were rather clueless to what was really going on.

[kurt_borglum]

For all you dads with just started dating daughters:
DADDY’S DATING RULES

1. RULE ONE: If you pull into my driveway and honk, you’d better be delivering a package because you are sure not picking anything up.

2. RULE TWO: You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off my daughter’s body, I will remove them.

3. RULE THREE: I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don’t take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise. You may come to the door with your underwear showing and pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your pants seam directly in place to your waist.

4. RULE FOUR: I am sure you have been told that in today’s world, sex without utilizing a “Barrier Method” of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the “Barrier” and I will Kill you.

5. RULE FIVE: It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need to hear from you is “early”.

6. RULE SIX: I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you.

7. RULE SEVEN: As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than one hour goes bye, do not sigh or fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her make up, a process that can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of standing there, why don’t you do something useful like change the oil in my car.

8. RULE EIGHT: The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter. Places where there are beds, couches, or anything softer than a wooden stool; places where there is darkness; places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness; places where the temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, mid-riff tee shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater and a goose down parka, zipped to her throat.

9. RULE NINE: Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided. Movies which feature chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay. Old folks homes are even better.

10. RULE TEN: Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a pot-bellied, middle aged, dim-witted has-been with a gimp knee. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing merciless, vengeful god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, your have only one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, shovel, tin snips and plenty of time. Do not trifle with me.

11. RULE ELEVEN: Be afraid, be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car with the sound of burglar trying to hurt me. Little voices in my head tell me frequently to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway, you should exit the car with both hands in plain sight. Yell the perimeter password (virgin), announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, and then return to your car, weaving in a serpentine fashion. There is no need for you to escort my daughter to the door or come inside. The camouflaged face in the window is mine.

OH YEAH, ENJOY YOUR DATE!

[gatormoe1]

If she wants birth control it most likely means she doesn't want the guy to wear his birth control.

[StrangeGator]

If I came across as rude, it's because I draw pretty hard lines on certain subjects and don't negotiate (see Saints post for a more eloquent method of handling), and I was more so responding to the wording of the post than you specifically. At the time it sounded like you were rather clueless to what was really going on.

I figured that starting out saying how "clued in" I was would keep a lot of people from weighing in. You didn't come across as rude. You came across as someone who loves their daughters and will do anything to protect them. That is the default setting. That is the assumption we all need to start with.

[StrangeGator]

For all you dads with just started dating daughters:
DADDY’S DATING RULES

1. RULE ONE: If you pull into my driveway and honk, you’d better be delivering a package because you are sure not picking anything up.

2. RULE TWO: You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off my daughter’s body, I will remove them.

3. RULE THREE: I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don’t take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise. You may come to the door with your underwear showing and pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, in order to ensure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric nail gun and fasten your pants seam directly in place to your waist.

4. RULE FOUR: I am sure you have been told that in today’s world, sex without utilizing a “Barrier Method” of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate, when it comes to sex, I am the “Barrier” and I will Kill you.

5. RULE FIVE: It is usually understood that in order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need to hear from you is “early”.

6. RULE SIX: I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you.

7. RULE SEVEN: As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than one hour goes bye, do not sigh or fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her make up, a process that can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of standing there, why don’t you do something useful like change the oil in my car.

8. RULE EIGHT: The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter. Places where there are beds, couches, or anything softer than a wooden stool; places where there is darkness; places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness; places where the temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, mid-riff tee shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater and a goose down parka, zipped to her throat.

9. RULE NINE: Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided. Movies which feature chain saws are okay. Hockey games are okay. Old folks homes are even better.

10. RULE TEN: Do not lie to me. I may appear to be a pot-bellied, middle aged, dim-witted has-been with a gimp knee. But on issues relating to my daughter, I am the all-knowing merciless, vengeful god of your universe. If I ask you where you are going and with whom, your have only one chance to tell me the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I have a shotgun, shovel, tin snips and plenty of time. Do not trifle with me.

11. RULE ELEVEN: Be afraid, be very afraid. It takes very little for me to mistake the sound of your car with the sound of burglar trying to hurt me. Little voices in my head tell me frequently to clean the guns as I wait for you to bring my daughter home. As soon as you pull into the driveway, you should exit the car with both hands in plain sight. Yell the perimeter password (virgin), announce in a clear voice that you have brought my daughter home safely and early, and then return to your car, weaving in a serpentine fashion. There is no need for you to escort my daughter to the door or come inside. The camouflaged face in the window is mine.

OH YEAH, ENJOY YOUR DATE!

Thanks Kurt. That would have been helpful if she'd ever had a date in high school. I live in Chicago. She goes to school in Boston.

Got news for you Kurt. None of those rules apply when your daughter goes away to school. If anything, she's tired of hearing all that crap and if she's so inclined, she will rebel and there will be nothing you can do. Your macho posturing will be fun jokes for her to tell her friends. Openness and mutual respect always worked for us and it's one of those things that keeps us connected across the miles and keeps us communicating.

When I was growing up, it was the girls with the hard ass dads that were the easiest, even in high school. The dads weren't that smart, not even the dad who was a private investigator. He never found out until afterwards, but as he told me years later, I was the most courteous, polite and considerate young man who had ever banged his daughter.

[gtr2x]

At this point I'd say you just have to trust her decision making.
Objectively Reinforce the facts, but its her call. Its quite possible she learned of the acne benefits of the pill from a friend. I hadnt heard of that until recently. Wonder how that would work for males. Either way, I would have no problem with her being on the pill at 19.

[StrangeGator]

At this point I'd say you just have to trust her decision making.
Objectively Reinforce the facts, but its her call. Its quite possible she learned of the acne benefits of the pill from a friend. I hadnt heard of that until recently. Wonder how that would work for males. Either way, I would have no problem with her being on the pill at 19.

Was wondering the same thing. If she comes home from spring break and her acne is cleared up, her twin brother is going on birth control pills asap.

I suspect that she really is getting them for acne, otherwise, should could have gone to the student clinic. If she told them she really wanted them to clear up acne, they probably would not have given her any. Forgetting the acne, chances are she really will get into a serious relationship and will need them. I trust her to take any other precautions she needs to. If she actually wanted my advice, I'd tell her to also require condoms until they'd been together for a couple of months and she trusted him completely.

FWIW, she does know all about condoms. Her service club was passing them out at a school function and they got in trouble with administration. Not for the reason you'd think. Seems that there was a student on campus who was deathly allergic to latex. Even balloons were banned from campus. Before that time, the school itself passed them out in health classes and the students had to learn to put them on certain objects vaguely similar to male anatomy.

[LAGatorDoc]

Was wondering the same thing. If she comes home from spring break and her acne is cleared up, her twin brother is going on birth control pills asap.

I suspect that she really is getting them for acne, otherwise, should could have gone to the student clinic. If she told them she really wanted them to clear up acne, they probably would not have given her any. Forgetting the acne, chances are she really will get into a serious relationship and will need them. I trust her to take any other precautions she needs to. If she actually wanted my advice, I'd tell her to also require condoms until they'd been together for a couple of months and she trusted him completely.

FWIW, she does know all about condoms. Her service club was passing them out at a school function and they got in trouble with administration. Not for the reason you'd think. Seems that there was a student on campus who was deathly allergic to latex. Even balloons were banned from campus. Before that time, the school itself passed them out in health classes and the students had to learn to put them on certain objects vaguely similar to male anatomy.

Lol... I hope my post was helpful, which you responded back to (sorry had to put my disclaimer there or my employers wouldn't be happy. Anywho, guys make too much testosterone for it to be blocked by the pill. Whole different beast

[Gatuar]

I'm glad I'm having a son

"hanging out at frat houses" all I needed to hear

[kurt_borglum]

My two daughters were on the pill in high school too. If you haven't raised them right up before the boys come a calling, you just missed the boat. Once they are driving, you have no control. Then all you can offer is wisdom, not control.

[MeyerIsBack]

I think the biggest concern is that birth control pills only prevent pregnancy, not STDs. She should be using condoms for sex and acne medicine (perhaps hormonal birth control) for her acne.

[StrangeGator]

My two daughters were on the pill in high school too. If you haven't raised them right up before the boys come a calling, you just missed the boat. Once they are driving, you have no control. Then all you can offer is wisdom, not control.

Maybe that was my secret. She still can't drive. We once contemplated not potty training her. That would have taken care of the dating thing, if it had ever come up.

[FrankGator627]

The "helps with acne" excuse is the #1 excuse for girls that want the pill but are too afraid to ask their parents for it and tell then they are sexually active.

I think you need to man up and give your daughter a good talking to about being safe. You'll regret it if your daughter catches a STD or gets preggo.

[Gator515151]

That is why I am glad I raised 3 boys, except for those mornings when I had to go out at 3AM and get a few hundred dollars out of the ATM to bail one of the boys out of jail.

[bluelang]

You're about six years late on this. Get her the pills and remind her to use a f'n condom. If she's out of your house it's none of your business anyways. Hell, even if she's in your house it's really none of your business.

[rpmGator]

Tell her the pills are better for her complexion, but condom's are better for her figure... and health.

[mfpardnor2]

Be prepared or deal with any circumstances.

[Gator515151]

You're about six years late on this. Get her the pills and remind her to use a f'n condom. If she's out of your house it's none of your business anyways. Hell, even if she's in your house it's really none of your business.

Bull shit, first of all I am sure he is still paying the bills if she is a 1st semester college freshman so she is not "out of his house". Second, well let's just ask old are you bluelang 17?

[kkg8r]

The "helps with acne" excuse is the #1 excuse for girls that want the pill but are too afraid to ask their parents for it and tell then they are sexually active.

I think you need to man up and give your daughter a good talking to about being safe. You'll regret it if your daughter catches a STD or gets preggo.

In my day, the excuse was 'spotting.' Many girls wanted the pill because it increased breast size - not to protect against pregnancy. Bottom line is, only she knows why she wants them and either she will tell you or she won't. The only thing you can do is educate and support. Regardless of who is paying for her schooling, she IS on her own. It sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders, likely due to good parenting. Just keep doing what you're doing.

[mamag8ter]

Well, this has been a very enlightening thread. Where were you guys when I was floundering around trying to get my Daughter through, high school, college, experimenting with pot, watching her trash the inside of her car, etc. I bumbled around and somehow raised a beautiful, kind, intelligent, responsible, hard working woman, who is a great Mother as well. Oh, forgot to mention she is a proud Gator. I somehow did it right.

[StrangeGator]

The "helps with acne" excuse is the #1 excuse for girls that want the pill but are too afraid to ask their parents for it and tell then they are sexually active.

I think you need to man up and give your daughter a good talking to about being safe. You'll regret it if your daughter catches a STD or gets preggo.

My wife had that talk with her. Told her we were okay with her being active, but would appreciate her being frank with us. She was pretty insistent about not being involved with anyone. Certainly hasn't been any talk about particular guys, only girls.

She doesn't need to lie to get the pills. She doesn't even need to come to us. The university clinic will give them to her.

[StrangeGator]

This time a year ago, I thought she might be sexually involved with one of her female friends.

[gtr2x]

This time a year ago, I thought she might be sexually involved with one of her female friends.

Well that could be a whole new thread.:wink:

[StrangeGator]

Well that could be a whole new thread.:wink:

But as always, useless without pics.

If you want a mental picture, my daughter is about 5'11.5" 135 pounds, brown, shoulder length hair, blue eyes, proportionately sized hips and behind, B-ish cups size (ask me again after she's been on those pills for three months) and obviously, very long legs. Very pretty face. The friend is bi-racial, about 5'6", larger hips and behind, larger chest, very big brown eyes, a bit more overt sexiness, I would even say a "Come hither" air about her.

I'd have been okay to some degree. The birth control thing would be a moot point. But I've had a few conversations with my lesbian and bi-sexual female colleagues and they all say the same thing. A man can beat a girl senseless, but he always feels bad about it. Girls are meaner, can and will inflict more long lasting pain without lifting a finger. They may be gentler with each other in bed, but they hold razor sharp knives behind their backs.

As it turned out, they weren't in bed together because they were attracted to each other. They were in bed together because they were baked to the gills, laid down and passed out. Another teachable moment. "I told you weed was stronger in brownies than when you smoked it."

[NorthCaptivaGator]

But as always, useless without pics.

If you want a mental picture, my daughter is about 5'11.5" 135 pounds, brown, shoulder length hair, blue eyes, proportionately sized hips and behind, B-ish cups size (ask my again after she's been on those pills for three months) and obviously, very long legs. Very pretty face. The friend is bi-racial, about 5'6", larger hips and behind, larger chest, very big brown eyes, a bit more overt sexiness, I would even say a "Come hither" air about her.

I'd have been okay to some degree. The birth control thing would be a moot point. But I've had a few conversations with me lesbian and bi-sexual female colleagues and they all say the same thing. A man can beat a girl senseless, but he always feels bad about it. Girls are meaner, can and will inflict more long lasting pain without lifting a finger. They may be gentler with each other in bed, but they hold razor sharp knives behind their backs.

As it turned out, they weren't in bed together because they were attracted to each other. They were in bed together because they were baked to the gills, laid down and passed out. Another teachable moment. "I told you weed was stronger in brownies than when you smoked it."

Funny because after your first post describing her and her friends I was going to post something smart ass like don't worry bro,she won't get pregnant, she is gay

[StrangeGator]

Bull shit, first of all I am sure he is still paying the bills if she is a 1st semester college freshman so she is not "out of his house". Second, well let's just ask old are you bluelang 17?

Not out of the house? We live in Chicago. She's at Boston University. That's just under 1000 miles and 15 hours drive. I was having sex two or three times a week when I was a junior in high school and my parents were only one or two miles away.

Bottom line, LAGatorDoc solved this riddle two pages back. Acne is a legitimate reason for taking oral contraceptives, more effective with fewer side effects and more benefits than most acne meds. Two things you need to know about her is that she is very vain, spends every spare dime on make up and hipster couture. Acne is not part of the look. The other is that she is the most risk averse teenager you have ever met. She looks both ways twice before crossing the street.

As far as boys go (or young men) she has always considered boys her own age to be children. At the same time, older boys have always intimidated her. Even the ones who are shorter than her, which is most of them. I think she's very mature in most respects, but she does not know how to flirt. All she knows is how to be incredibly rude and condescending to guys her age and younger and very shy around older guys.

Frankly, I'm less worried about her becoming intimate than I am about her inability to create meaningful relationships with males. If she wants contraceptives to prevent pregnancy, she might just be worried about getting raped.

[LAGatorDoc]

Not out of the house? We live in Chicago. She's at Boston University. That's just under 1000 miles and 15 hours drive. I was having sex two or three times a week when I was a junior in high school and my parents were only one or two miles away.

Bottom line, LAGatorDoc solved this riddle two pages back. Acne is a legitimate reason for taking oral contraceptives, more effective with fewer side effects and more benefits than most acne meds. Two things you need to know about her is that she is very vain, spends every spare dime on make up and hipster couture. Acne is not part of the look. The other is that she is the most risk averse teenager you have ever met. She looks both ways twice before crossing the street.

As far as boys go (or young men) she has always considered boys her own age to be children. At the same time, older boys have always intimidated her. Even the ones who are shorter than her, which is most of them. I think she's very mature in most respects, but she does not know how to flirt. All she knows is how to be incredibly rude and condescending to guys her age and younger and very shy around older guys.

Frankly, I'm less worried about her becoming intimate than I am about her inability to create meaningful relationships with males. If she wants contraceptives to prevent pregnancy, she might just be worried about getting raped.

Don't have her hang out near the FSU or UTexas football teams and that hopefully will prevent the last horrible part from happening

[StrangeGator]

Don't have her hang out near the FSU or UTexas football teams and that hopefully will prevent the last horrible part from happening

BU is far from both campuses and they don't have football. She didn't give a moments consideration to applying to f$u, no matter how good their film school is alleged to be. She applied to U. of Texas on my insistence, but was not accepted. The film school is very competitive, and like UF, they reserve 92% of their freshman acceptance for Texas residents. FWIW, her GPA and test scores were high enough for honors admission by Texas standards. Fine film school, but the university can stick it up the place their entire state represents to this country's anatomy. Only reason she applied was to do her campus visit during SXSW, but I was freaking indignant. She was wait-listed by schools miles up the food chain from UT, and accepted by a couple of others. They sent us a letter encouraging us to consider applying for a transfer if she experienced great success somewhere else. I had to restrain myself from responding.

As far as football players go, if they aren't Gators, she wants nothing to do with them. She's generally not impressed and considers athletes in revenue sports to be inferior species. She played high school and AAU volleyball. She was just invited to to leave her intramural Quidditch team to join the BU club team. She's a Beater, which requires tackling boys. Maybe she really is a lesbian, but a soon to be clear-skinned lesbian.

You shouldn't have gotten me started.

[LAGatorDoc]

BU is far from both campuses and they don't have football. She didn't give a moments consideration to applying to f$u, no matter how good their film school is alleged to be. She applied to U. of Texas on my insistence, but was not accepted. The film school is very competitive, and like UF, they reserve 92% of their freshman acceptance for Texas residents. FWIW, her GPA and test scores were high enough for honors admission by Texas standards. Fine film school, but the university can stick it up the place their entire state represents to this country's anatomy. Only reason she applied was to do her campus visit during SXSW, but I was freaking indignant. She was wait-listed by schools miles up the food chain from UT, and accepted by a couple of others. They sent us a letter encouraging us to consider applying for a transfer if she experienced great success somewhere else. I had to restrain myself from responding.

As far as football players go, if they aren't Gators, she wants nothing to do with them. She's generally not impressed and considers athletes in revenue sports to be inferior species. She played high school and AAU volleyball. She was just invited to to leave her intramural Quidditch team to join the BU club team. She's a Beater, which requires tackling boys. Maybe she really is a lesbian, but a soon to be clear-skinned lesbian.

You shouldn't have gotten me started.

Boom!!! Sorry, but it deserved a boom, Muschamp style

[StrangeGator]

Funny because after your first post describing her and her friends I was going to post something smart ass like don't worry bro,she won't get pregnant, she is gay

If she is, all of them might be, in which case, I can only imagine their post-prom excursion her friend's Michigan lake house. There were 12 of them and apparently they all got drunk and went skinny dipping. I know there were no boys there, because one of the moms was with them. And no, she didn't bring a camera, so don't tell me how worthless this post is without pics.

They're a great bunch of girls, no matter which team they play for. Cute too, though a few could use some acne treatment, but we know how to handle that now, don't we.

[rpmGator]

Second best tip is to tell her to never drink anything she didn't open or see opened herself and if she leaves her drink to dance or something, throw it away and get a new one.

If you can't keep it in your hand, drink it or throw it away, never leave it alone for a moment.

[StrangeGator]

Second best tip is to tell her to never drink anything she didn't open or see opened herself and if she leaves her drink to dance or something, throw it away and get a new one.

If you can't keep it in your hand, drink it or throw it away, never leave it alone for a moment.

She got that lecture before I finally go to Lollapalooza by herself, but that's probably a worth giving again.

[The_Ultimate_Gator]

If you want a mental picture, my daughter is about 5'11.5" 135 pounds, brown, shoulder length hair, blue eyes, proportionately sized hips and behind, B-ish cups size (ask me again after she's been on those pills for three months) and obviously, very long legs. Very pretty face. The friend is bi-racial, about 5'6", larger hips and behind, larger chest, very big brown eyes, a bit more overt sexiness, I would even say a "Come hither" air about her.

Go on...

[gtr2x]

Interesting, my wife's cousin, a Miami Latina went to BU about 25 years ago, hooked up with a local Irish guy and never looked back. Great couple with 2 kids.

[StrangeGator]

Interesting, my wife's cousin, a Miami Latina went to BU about 25 years ago, hooked up with a local Irish guy and never looked back. Great couple with 2 kids.

Saw a lot of Miami kids when I went for orientation. One of the presenters was a second generation Cuban from Miami. The student body is over 20% international, which probably leads to a lot of mixed ethnicity marriages. My daughter's roommate is from Indonesia. Her best friend is from Zimbabwe and her second best friend is Korean. Only other person I ever knew at the school was a girl I dated who was from the Loire Valley in France.

The Irish American community is huge there. The cab driver who took us back to the airport was right out of central casting.

[StrangeGator]

Done deal. They went to the doctor yesterday. I dropped off the two scripts. The second one was for a topical anti-biotic. Probably not much to worry about for a while. It certainly isn't the acne holding her back.

Thanks for all the advice, even the less insightful advice. It was all given in the spirit of helping a friend. It's hard to think or behave intelligently about such an emotional topic. I was so freaked out about having a daughter, I read Reviving Ophelia when she was only three. Not much insight about pre-schoolers in there. What I do remember is that the teenage girls who are the most mature and the most emotionally prepared for sexual relationships are typically the ones who avoid them, while the immature, emotionally needy girls are the most likely to engage in sex. (I most have known that instinctively, because I was always chasing the latter.) My daughter is more of the former but mostly just not impressed with guys her age, or even a few years older. She sure isn't impressed with me.

[OaktownGator]

Hanging at the Frat house is the thing that sounds most concerning from my POV.

I guess this just follows up on the exchange you had with rpm regarding open drinks, but even if she is lesbian, guys with roofies (sp?) or whatever the date rape drug of choice currently is, won't care too much about her preference.

In addition to watching her drinks (and food), I'd just try to make sure someone she trusts and will listen to, has her eyes open to the risks there, and she remember to choose her friends and surroundings wisely. That can run counter to the experimental nature of that stage in your life, but it's really critical.

Glad to hear she's a mature girl and not too easily impressed with the guys around her. Good sign for sure.

[LeafUF]

Can we please stop with all the fraternity hating here? Seriously, frat guys arent just sexual predators looking to roofie your daughters. I was in a fraternity, all my friends were in fraternities and none of us would ever do such a thing. Not to say there arent guys in faternities who would but those same guys would probably do those things whether they are in frats or not. They would just do it at an apt party or a bar.

[myamiG8R]

tell your daughter you have a better system of birth control... then grab your shotgun and ask the boy's name...

[OaktownGator]

Can we please stop with all the fraternity hating here? Seriously, frat guys arent just sexual predators looking to roofie your daughters. I was in a fraternity, all my friends were in fraternities and none of us would ever do such a thing. Not to say there arent guys in faternities who would but those same guys would probably do those things whether they are in frats or not. They would just do it at an apt party or a bar.
If it would make you feel better, I'd also be concerned if she was hanging out with gang bangers.

Any female hanging out with a bunch of college age guys, likely with alcohol and other intoxicants involved, had better know those guys and the surroundings very damn well, or she's taking a big chance.

[LeafUF]

If it would make you feel better, I'd also be concerned if she was hanging out with gang bangers.

Any female hanging out with a bunch of college age guys, likely with alcohol and other intoxicants involved, had better know those guys and the surroundings very damn well, or she's taking a big chance.

No, equating a fraternity member to a gang member does not make me feel better. Over my four and half years at UF I lived my fraternity house for about three and there were plenty of girls who hung out a lot. None of them were raped or drugged or had any harm come to them at all.

The rest of what you say is true though it basically includes just about any social situation. Concert, bar, night club, frat party, house party, no matter where you are or who you are around you need to be smart. You aren't going to know everyone or everything when you are out socializing but you can go with friends and be smart.

[vaxcardinal]

Can we please stop with all the fraternity hating here? Seriously, frat guys arent just sexual predators looking to roofie your daughters. I was in a fraternity, all my friends were in fraternities and none of us would ever do such a thing. Not to say there arent guys in faternities who would but those same guys would probably do those things whether they are in frats or not. They would just do it at an apt party or a bar.

So if frat guys arent just sexual predators looking to roofie your daughters, what are these sexual predators looking to do :huh:

[LeafUF]

So if frat guys arent just sexual predators looking to roofie your daughters, what are these sexual predators looking to do :huh:

Bro Rape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zvTRQr7ns8

[StrangeGator]

Hanging at the Frat house is the thing that sounds most concerning from my POV.

I guess this just follows up on the exchange you had with rpm regarding open drinks, but even if she is lesbian, guys with roofies (sp?) or whatever the date rape drug of choice currently is, won't care too much about her preference.

In addition to watching her drinks (and food), I'd just try to make sure someone she trusts and will listen to, has her eyes open to the risks there, and she remember to choose her friends and surroundings wisely. That can run counter to the experimental nature of that stage in your life, but it's really critical.

Glad to hear she's a mature girl and not too easily impressed with the guys around her. Good sign for sure.

The one thing that's encouraging is that she travels with a decent sized posse. I suspect they all look after each other, except for the one who thought it was a good idea to do shrooms and go to the Nutcracker.

The frat house novelty will probably fade with each year, especially when she reaches drinking age. My only issue with those places is the lack of security and supervision that a dorm, bar or even apartment complex would have. Boys will be boys, especially when no one is there to stop them.

[LAGatorDoc]

Bro Rape?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zvTRQr7ns8

When I saw bro rape, I thought of the butt chuggers at Tennessee... Don't know why

[StrangeGator]

Like I said, I don't have a problem with the men who are in fraternities. It's the environment and the kind of things that tend to happen when no single person is in charge of the safety and security of the individuals inside the house. I was in a fraternity myself. There were few instances where very drunk women had sex with more than one brother. There were fights at our parties that took longer to break up than they would at a bar. One person was seriously injured falling from a balcony during a party. A few years later, someone else fell from a balcony resulting in a fatal injury.

On the plus side, if my daughter did get impregnated at an MIT frat party, wouldn't that be like winning the genetic lottery?

[1gatorbear]

She better get the pills because she is now in college and sex is a way to express her freedom.

[rpmGator]

It only takes one jerk, no matter if they are in a fraternity or not, to ruin the life of one female.

The concern over the angels in frats, is wasted on the wrong side of the problem.

[oldgator]

might I suggest you talk with your rabbi on this matter.

I'm not Jewish. But what I've observed over the years, rabbis tend to be very practical in their understanding/helpfulness in regard to 'secular' matters. And that seems to be one of the traits that has seen the religion survive the thousands of years and weather changes in societies, etc.

As an RN--I'd advocate her going to a OBGYN just so she can start health care in regards to such things as mammograms, checkups regarding cancer of reproductive system. And to get some knowledge as opposed to myths from a qualified person.

as a father and husband(our daughter graduated a few years ago from UF and got married in college and now has a young son). Some talks(especially those related to sex) worked best for our family when my wife and I sit down together with our daughter. Main thing to do just before having one of those talks is to do the two following things.
---take a few moments to remember what we were like at her age
---realize that times change and way she sees things may not be the same as her mom did when her mom was younger
---say a prayer(ie serenity prayer or some other prayer that lends itself to calmness and being of help to others)
---breath deep and count to ten before entering the room

[rburnett]

I'm glad I'm having a son

"hanging out at frat houses" all I needed to hear

This thread is my nightmare... I participated in far too many fratty shenanigans in my day. I'm screwed. Trying to convince the wife to adopt boys right now, not even worth the risk!

Fathers of daughters... I do not know how you do it! Especially you, Kurt, with those bombshell dazzler daughters.. unimaginable.. lol

[StrangeGator]

might I suggest you talk with your rabbi on this matter.

I'm not Jewish. But what I've observed over the years, rabbis tend to be very practical in their understanding/helpfulness in regard to 'secular' matters. And that seems to be one of the traits that has seen the religion survive the thousands of years and weather changes in societies, etc.

As an RN--I'd advocate her going to a OBGYN just so she can start health care in regards to such things as mammograms, checkups regarding cancer of reproductive system. And to get some knowledge as opposed to myths from a qualified person.

as a father and husband(our daughter graduated a few years ago from UF and got married in college and now has a young son). Some talks(especially those related to sex) worked best for our family when my wife and I sit down together with our daughter. Main thing to do just before having one of those talks is to do the two following things.
---take a few moments to remember what we were like at her age
---realize that times change and way she sees things may not be the same as her mom did when her mom was younger
---say a prayer(ie serenity prayer or some other prayer that lends itself to calmness and being of help to others)
---breath deep and count to ten before entering the room

I could certainly talk to my rabbi who has been a great resource for me in recent years. She might know a thing or two about this subject, being a single mom of a 20 year-old daughter. She could probably share some great wisdom, none of which I could share with my daughter. Maybe I just need it for myself.

[rpmGator]

Teach safety, rely on how you rasied her.

[dadx4]

Being a father of 2 teenage girls...I would rather them be on the pill in college rather than them get pregnant. You don't hang out at frat houses a lot and keep your pants on.

[dadx4]

Being a father of 2 teenage girls...I would rather them be on the pill in college rather than them get pregnant. You don't hang out at frat houses a lot and keep your pants on.

[StrangeGator]

Thanks Dadx4x2. I think the reason she hangs out at frat houses is because they are there, literally right on her block and then more on the next block and even more right across the river.

[g8orbill]

I have 4 daughters and 1 son

we started out early getting them grounded in their Faith-then we constantly stressed decisions have consequences and that bad decisions are usually accompanied with bad consequences- I also told them about boys like I was and that the line if you loved me you would let me is total BS and that if a boy every said you cannot leave me in this condition to not worry-it would go away on its own

we also put them on the pill before they entered college(except for our 17 year old who is still in high school)

we did not allow them to date until they were 16 and then the boy had to come and meet me and talk with me prior to (and not on the night of) their first date-the last thing I said to every boy on the first meeting was-"if you do anything to her you shouldn't do then that is exactly what I am going to do to you". One kid got a little mouthy with me and there was no date EVER for him-I ran into his mother at Publix about 2 weeks after this incident and she asked me why I would not allow my then 16 year old to go out with her son-I told her exactly what I said and exactly what he said-she merely said oh and that was the end of it-until the next Friday night when he came up to me at the football game and apologized-I still did not allow them to go out

when ever they went anywhere I would always say- "remember life is about decisions and bad decisions are usually accompanied with bad consequences". My 17 year old rolls her eyes but she always says yes sir-the rest are doing just fine in their lives. I am a blessed man

[StrangeGator]

I have 4 daughters and 1 son.

I am a blessed man.

You must be brave too.

[StrangeGator]

Just got wind of the first pregnancy rumor from my kids' graduating class. Former soccer teammate of my daughter's has been down at SIU and came home pregnant. Her dad is a prick. My ears are still ringing from standing next to him while he yelled at her from the sidelines. I would not have wanted to be around when she broke that news. Apparently she is not going back to school, nor is she welcome at home.

[toon66]

I have 4 daughters and 1 son

we started out early getting them grounded in their Faith-then we constantly stressed decisions have consequences and that bad decisions are usually accompanied with bad consequences- I also told them about boys like I was and that the line if you loved me you would let me is total BS and that if a boy every said you cannot leave me in this condition to not worry-it would go away on its own

we also put them on the pill before they entered college(except for our 17 year old who is still in high school)

we did not allow them to date until they were 16 and then the boy had to come and meet me and talk with me prior to (and not on the night of) their first date-the last thing I said to every boy on the first meeting was-"if you do anything to her you shouldn't do then that is exactly what I am going to do to you". One kid got a little mouthy with me and there was no date EVER for him-I ran into his mother at Publix about 2 weeks after this incident and she asked me why I would not allow my then 16 year old to go out with her son-I told her exactly what I said and exactly what he said-she merely said oh and that was the end of it-until the next Friday night when he came up to me at the football game and apologized-I still did not allow them to go out

when ever they went anywhere I would always say- "remember life is about decisions and bad decisions are usually accompanied with bad consequences". My 17 year old rolls her eyes but she always says yes sir-the rest are doing just fine in their lives. I am a blessed man

I like your style. My niece is 14, bright and drop dead. Her parents are very solid and firm but you can guarantee I will be there reinforce the message when dating time comes.

Thanks for your post.

[toon66]

Just got wind of the first pregnancy rumor from my kids' graduating class. Former soccer teammate of my daughter's has been down at SIU and came home pregnant. Her dad is a prick. My ears are still ringing from standing next to him while he yelled at her from the sidelines. I would not have wanted to be around when she broke that news. Apparently she is not going back to school, nor is she welcome at home.

Her dad is a prick. Terrible thing to do.

[gator10010]

I can't believe all of these fathers waiting until college to get them the pill.
And don't kid yourself chances are your daughters are not waiting until college to have sex.

I don't care what rules, you have/had in place or how strict you were, if you waited till college you were late.

College is too late, you need to get real in your thinking and start in high school. To the OP who is concerned about his daughter telling him the truth or not about the acne excuse.......do you really care? Maybe it is for acne, maybe it is for sex, either way she is asking for birth control and that in itself should provide you with some level of comfort.

So what if your daughter is not comfortable telling her dad she wants to have sex, what daughter would be comfortable with that conversation at 18 years of age?

If it is for acne great! If it is for sex, at least she is being responsible even if she is hiding behind the acne excuse. Just because you feel like she can tell you anything doesn't mean she is comfortable telling you everything.

[StrangeGator]

I can't believe all of these fathers waiting until college to get them the pill.
And don't kid yourself chances are your daughters are not waiting until college to have sex.

I don't care what rules, you have/had in place or how strict you were, if you waited till college you were late.

College is too late, you need to get real in your thinking and start in high school. To the OP who is concerned about his daughter telling him the truth or not about the acne excuse.......do you really care? Maybe it is for acne, maybe it is for sex, either way she is asking for birth control and that in itself should provide you with some level of comfort.

So what if your daughter is not comfortable telling her dad she wants to have sex, what daughter would be comfortable with that conversation at 18 years of age?

If it is for acne great! If it is for sex, at least she is being responsible even if she is hiding behind the acne excuse. Just because you feel like she can tell you anything doesn't mean she is comfortable telling you everything.

I guess you weren't following too closely, though it has become a long thread. I didn't for a moment stand in the way of her getting the pills and I didn't confront her about it. I just wanted her and her mom to have an honest, open discussion about it.

I don't think anything is going on, but she won't even say that to her mom. We knew exactly what was going on in high school and there was never a need to bring this up. You don't force birth control pills on a girl who has never had a boyfriend and has only had one date. I'm not naive enough to think that I knew everything that she was doing, but we knew where she was and for the most part and who she was with and she was always home before curfew. This town is two miles east to west and three miles north to south. Almost 60,000 people are crammed into that space, so it's pretty hard to hide and these girls never tried to. They would go into the city a lot, to shop or go to concerts, but they were always back at a reasonable hour. Some of the time, I dropped them off and/or picked them up, but they were always there waiting for me. They got into some mischief, but it never involved boys. They moved in a posse of five to 12 girls, few of whom had boyfriends at any given time. Most of them have still never had boyfriends.

That was always my biggest concern about her going off to college. She didn't have any experience with boys. There wasn't a context for discussing sex. We could talk about being safe and being smart, but not in a situation where she was with a young man that she was out for the evening with. I'm more worried about her not knowing how to connect on a meaningful level. She's old enough to have sex and mature in most respects, but when it comes to relationships, she's more like a 14 year-old. I don't think she's prepared for a mature relationship with a young man in any way.

She's not hiding behind acne. She's hiding from relationships. The only reason she wants the acne to go away is to look better for the girls. She's a lot more about competing with girls than attracting boys. She's a bit lost without her posse who are scattered between eight or ten colleges. I hope these other girls are moving forward. Hope some of them actually need birth control.

[rpmGator]

There was an old joke about guy's who got fixed so they wouldn't have to wear a condom. When HIV hit, the joke was, the risk of surgery and you sitll have to wear the condom anyhow.

Pills can keep grandkids away, condoms save your kid's life.

[OaktownGator]

No, equating a fraternity member to a gang member does not make me feel better. Over my four and half years at UF I lived my fraternity house for about three and there were plenty of girls who hung out a lot. None of them were raped or drugged or had any harm come to them at all.

The rest of what you say is true though it basically includes just about any social situation. Concert, bar, night club, frat party, house party, no matter where you are or who you are around you need to be smart. You aren't going to know everyone or everything when you are out socializing but you can go with friends and be smart.
The bolded paragraph is the main point I was trying to get across.

I'm not picking on frats specifically. Guys that age when horny, combined with intoxicants of various types do bad chit at times, even if they're "nice guys". And TBH, I don't think you should be so confident no one was raped at your frat house. You didn't hear about any and that's certainly a good thing, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

From a Harvard Study (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/cas/Documents/rapeintox/037-Mohler-Kuo.sep1.pdf):
A RECENT DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE study estimated that a woman has between a one in four and one in five chance of being raped during her college years
(Fisher et al., 2000). Koss and colleagues (1987) assessed the amount and type of unwanted sexual contact in a national sample of 32 institutions of higher education. They found that more than 15% of college women had experienced a completed rape since the age of 14, and an additional 12% had experienced attempted rape. Of these
women, 17% had experienced either rape or attempted rape in the previous year. Abbey (2002) reviewed the literature and concluded that similar prevalence rates have been found in studies conducted at colleges throughout the United States
(Abbey et al., 1996a; Copenhaver and Grauerholz, 1991; Mills and Granoff, 1992; Muehlenhard and Linton, 1987).

Alcohol-related sexual assault is a common problem among college students (Abbey, 2002). Previous studies have shown that alcohol use is associated with at least 50%
of sexual assaults on female college students (Abbey, 2002; Abbey et al., 1996a; Koss et al., 1987; Presley et al., 1997; Received: April 8, 2003. Revision: September 2, 2003.)

ABSTRACT. Objective: Heavy alcohol use is widespread among college students, particularly in those social situations where the risk of rape rises. Few studies have provided information on rapes of college women that occur when they are intoxicated. The purpose of the present study was to present prevalence data for rape under the condition of intoxication when the victim is unable to consent and to identify college and individual-level risk factors associated with that condition. Method: The study utilizes data from 119 schools participating in three Harvard School of Public Health College Alcohol Study surveys. The analytic sample of randomly selected students includes 8,567 women in the 1997 survey, 8,425 in the 1999 survey, and 6,988 in the 2001 survey. Results: Roughly one in 20 (4.7%)
women reported being raped. Nearly three quarters (72%) of the victims experienced rape while intoxicated. Women who were under 21, were white, resided in sorority houses, used illicit drugs, drank heavily in high school and attended colleges with high rates of heavy episodic drinking were at higher risk of rape while intoxicated. Conclusions: The high proportion of rapes found to occur when women were intoxicated indicates the need for alcohol prevention programs on campuses that address sexual assault, both to educate men about what constitutes rape and to advise women of risky situations. The findings that some campus environments
are associated with higher levels of both drinking and rape will help target rape prevention programs at colleges. (J. Stud. Alcohol 65: 37-45, 2004) Testa, 2002, for a review). Koss (1988) reported that 74% of the perpetrators and 55% of the victims of rape in her nationally representative sample of college students had been
drinking alcohol. Muehlenhard and Linton (1987) found that alcohol was consumed by 55% of the men and 53% of the women who reported sexual assault on a date. They also found that sexually assaultive dates were more likely than nonassaultive dates to involve heavy alcohol consumption by both men and women. Harrington and Leitenberg (1994) also found that 55% of the sexual assaults reported by college women involved alcohol consumption. Ullman and Breklin (2000) reported that 100% of the incidents in which the victim was drinking involved perpetrator drinking.


From a more recent DOJ funded study (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/219181.pdf), similar statistics along with an estimate of fewer than 1 in 8 rapes ever getting reported:
Rape among Women in U.S. Colleges
Estimates are that 673,000 of nearly 6 million women (11.5%) currently attending American colleges have ever been raped.2 This includes an estimated half-million college women who have been forcibly raped, 160,000 who have experienced drug-facilitated rape, and over 200,000 who have experienced incapacitated rape.1 During the past year alone, 300,000 college women (5.2%) were raped: nearly 200,000 who have been forcibly raped, nearly 100,000 who have experienced drug-facilitated rape, and over 100,000 who have experienced incapacitated rape.

Among college women, about 12% of rapes were reported to law enforcement. Consistent with the national sample, victims of drug-facilitated or incapacitated rape were less likely than victims of forcible rape to report to the authorities. Barriers to reporting rape incidents to law enforcement among college women included: not wanting others to know about the rape, fear of retaliation, perception of insufficient evidence, uncertainty about whether a crime was committed or harm intended, and uncertainty about whether the incident was “serious enough”. Injury was reported for 47% of forcible rape incidents and 20% of drug-facilitated or incapacitated incidents. Medical care was received following 14% of forcible rape incidents and 19% of drug-facilitated or incapacitated incidents. Perpetrators were known to victims in most rape cases.

[StrangeGator]

Thanks for reminding me Oaktown. I'd pass it along to my daughter, but she's probably been forced to sit through numerous lectures that offered up those statistics. Had to sit though one myself at her orientation. I'm glad that we have been able to talk openly about alcohol and drug use. She's not abstinent, but she is cautious. She's not a risk taker, not even in the good ways. I taught both my kids how to ride public transportation safely when they were 12, so she has a good concept of the need for vigilance. There's not much more I can do but let go. She heads back next weekend.

[OaktownGator]

Thanks for reminding me Oaktown. I'd pass it along to my daughter, but she's probably been forced to sit through numerous lectures that offered up those statistics. Had to sit though one myself at her orientation. I'm glad that we have been able to talk openly about alcohol and drug use. She's not abstinent, but she is cautious. She's not a risk taker, not even in the good ways. I taught both my kids how to ride public transportation safely when they were 12, so she has a good concept of the need for vigilance. There's not much more I can do but let go. She heads back next weekend.
It really sounds like you've done what you can for her Strange - prepared her well to make smart decisions, and made her confident to do so. I think that's the best thing we can do for our kids. And keep the communications as open as possible.

Best to you and her.

And keep us up to date on any developments with that friend of hers (come hither eyes) you mentioned earlier. :joecool:

[StrangeGator]

It really sounds like you've done what you can for her Strange - prepared her well to make smart decisions, and made her confident to do so. I think that's the best thing we can do for our kids. And keep the communications as open as possible.

Best to you and her.

And keep us up to date on any developments with that friend of hers (come hither eyes) you mentioned earlier. :joecool:

Don't expect any. If I come on to her, I'm dead. If she comes on to me, I'm still dead. (Who would believe me?) She's not even the hottest of her friends, just the most overtly sexual.

[toon66]

Don't expect any. If I come on to her, I'm dead. If she comes on to me, I'm still dead. (Who would believe me?) She's not even the hottest of her friends, just the most overtly sexual.

American Beauty

[StrangeGator]

American Beauty

At least they're out of high school.

Recently had a bit of a crush on 24 year old girl/woman I met at an Aikido seminar in Grand Rapids last spring, then saw her again at two local seminars. Walked her back to her car after the last one and had a nice chat. She said to look her up next time I'm in Grand Rapids. We just got a note from her sensei about a memorial service for her. She committed suicide last week.

Not really related to the original post, except that we need to stay close to our children even after they're no longer children. They're headed out into a difficult world and they're not all emotionally prepared.

Can't stop thinking about that girl. She was beautiful, but there was something a little sad about her. Trying to imagine what went wrong in her life that made her want to end it. I've been sure to hug my kids every day since then, and will every day till they head back to school. They will never have to wonder whether or not their parents loved them.

[wci347]

Since she was honest enough to break the ice, I think your response should be to level with her that there is an added benefit to them which you are sure she is well aware of, and that the discussion should not be an encouragement for her to use them or as a green light for uninhibited indulgences. But if she is going to use them for the more widely used purpose, that you would expect her to use discretion and caution in that regard. End of conversation.

Raised two teenage daughters who are now in their 20s both college grads, one's in grad school and practically engaged. The other is working in Hawaii and dating. Neither have had any children, abortions, or STDs. Thank God.