We're finally getting off probation!

[corpgator]

After years of self imposed probation, we're finally going to be playing at the full 85 scholarship level. I'm pretty sure we were below it every year under Meyer and were this year as well.

Imagine what this team is going to look like once we have the depth of a full roster?

Scout shows 79 for 2012
72 for 2011
80 for 2010
78 for 2009
79 for 2008
71 for 2007
79 for 2006
81 for 2005
2004 shows 87, meaning 2 or more transferred before the season started.

It makes what we've accomplished that much more impressive, but our last coach's recruiting philosophy was bunk. In years we had far superior talent, we could win, but when we didn't, we didn't have the depth to survive.

[MadduxFanII]

Ignoring yet another silly shot at Meyer, it seems unlikely that we end up playing the season with exactly 85 scholarship players. Most teams don't. There's attrition before the season, attrition during the season, guys kicked off, etc. If you're around 80 you're doing fine.

Now, going into a season with 72 scholarship players is...less than optimal, and ending it with something like 64 or 65 is just awful. That hopefully won't happen again.

[rserina]

Meyer's recruiting philosophy was terrible. Right. We loaded up on elite recruits now populating NFL rosters and wearing national championship rings. Terrible idea.

Roster management isn't the end game in recruiting; winning games is. Different coaches approach it differently, but what matters isn't how many guys you have on scholarship. What matters is how your recruiting produces success on the field.

[corpgator]

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

That's basically what has kept us from having sustained success like Bama and led to some ugly seasons. Football takes a toll. It was extremely apparent during the second half of the season until guys got health again for FSU.

We're Florida. We'll always get the elite guys. It's how we fill out the roster that determines how we sustain success. And roster management is a huge part of any sport.

[MadduxFanII]

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

So your chief example of a guy we didn't sign is a guy we signed?

[corpgator]

So your chief example of a guy we didn't sign is a guy we signed?

An example of what can happen when we sign guys to fill spots that we don't think are worth it. I can't name guys we didn't sign because we didn't sign them. Obviously there were plenty out there since we have had nearly a decade of 5 or more spots left before transfers even left.

[G8RNTN]

Ignoring yet another silly shot at Meyer, it seems unlikely that we end up playing the season with exactly 85 scholarship players. Most teams don't. There's attrition before the season, attrition during the season, guys kicked off, etc. If you're around 80 you're doing fine.

Now, going into a season with 72 scholarship players is...less than optimal, and ending it with something like 64 or 65 is just awful. That hopefully won't happen again.

Did u just say u were ignoring another silly Meyer post??? And then went on to post about it? :whistle:

[rserina]

Did u just say u were ignoring another silly Meyer post??? And then went on to post about it? :whistle:
He said he was ignoring the shot at Meyer, which he didn't address, not the post, the logic of which he did address.

[Dreamliner]

I'm going to say it: Urban Meyer!

*runs away*

[thedyc09]

Roster management is all a great balancing act.

1) You never want to sign guys to just fill out the roster. We have high standards for a reason. We want every scholarship to be competitive.

2) You always want to leave space for the elusive "big fish" who wait until signing day before announcing.

3) You want a relatively even number of signings for each 4-year span. Nothing was worse than signing 28-30 kids one year then only having space for 15 the next.

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.

[rserina]

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

That's basically what has kept us from having sustained success like Bama and led to some ugly seasons. Football takes a toll. It was extremely apparent during the second half of the season until guys got health again for FSU.

We're Florida. We'll always get the elite guys. It's how we fill out the roster that determines how we sustain success. And roster management is a huge part of any sport.
I don't necessarily disagree with the first two paragraphs, but I honestly don't see how going 13-1 in three of four seasons isn't "sustained success."

Let's compare your desideratum of Bama to Florida in the first six years of their respective regimes:

Year 1: Florida, 9-3 (2005); Bama, 8-5 (2007)
Year 2: Florida, 13-1 (2006); Bama, 12-2 (2008)
Year 3: Florida, 9-4 (2007); Bama, 14-0 (2009)
Year 4: Florida, 13-1 (2008); Bama, 10-3 (2010)
Year 5: Florida, 13-1 (2009); Bama, 13-1 (2011)
Year 6: Florida, 8-5 (2010); Bama, 13-1 (2012)

We were better than Bama in three of those six, and equivalent in another. They were down in year four as much as we were down in year three. Meyer's last season is the only one where you see a marked difference, but I think we can all agree that was a disaster of a season from the top down, not so much from the bottom up.

The problem in 2007 had nothing to do with depth and everything to do with inexperience on the defensive side of the ball owing largely to the coaching transition that left us with a dearth of upperclassmen on that side of the ball and heavy attrition to the NFL on that side of the ball (Nelson, Moss, Siler, Smith). We had pretty full classes in 2006 and 2007, so it isn't like we were signing 18 kids and holding scholarships for the next year.

Likewise, the problem wasn't lack of depth in 2010, even there we had 80 kids on scholarship despite heavy attrition of underclassmen in Haden, Wright, Dunlap, and Hernandez. I hardly consider that self-imposed probation.

[rserina]

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.
That's a good point. If you remember at the presser for his opening class, Meyer stated a desire to sign roughly even numbers every year in the 18-22 range, but those next two classes were so stout he went with it. After that, I think he got a little "star hungry" because we had closed so successfully with the previous classes.

[qwghlmgator]

That's a good point. If you remember at the presser for his opening class, Meyer stated a desire to sign roughly even numbers every year in the 18-22 range, but those next two classes were so stout he went with it. After that, I think he got a little "star hungry" because we had closed so successfully with the previous classes.

And I think it's important to note that this is exactly the bet that Saban has been hedging through oversigning. He's been able to go after those stars without losing the "quality depth" alternatives due to extra slack in his system. And in a game of inches, that's is an advantage that can't be overstated.

[Gatorrick22]

I could never understand why we never actually used all of our ships in past recruiting classes.

[delioj]

why were we on probation in the first place?

[g0ggles]

Roster management is all a great balancing act.

1) You never want to sign guys to just fill out the roster. We have high standards for a reason. We want every scholarship to be competitive.

2) You always want to leave space for the elusive "big fish" who wait until signing day before announcing.

3) You want a relatively even number of signings for each 4-year span. Nothing was worse than signing 28-30 kids one year then only having space for 15 the next.

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.

Couldn't have said it better. The man could recruit (06 & 07 classes) his @ss off. But he turned into college football equivalent of a "homerun or strikeout" hitter. That caused some classes to be unbalanced (08). The current staff is using a different method, but the results appear to be the same. Monster classes

[MadduxFanII]

Let's not go overboard with analyzing Muschamp's "recruiting philosophy" yet. The sample size is far too small. He's had one full recruiting class, and he'll finish up his second in a month or so (I don't believe in judging a new coach on the class he signs before he coaches a game). In the one full Muschamp class we've seen, we left a massive handful of scholarships on the board because of an inability to sign the big stars we wanted on Signing Day, save Fowler.

This class looks different. And that's good to see. But right now we've got one small class and one full class in the Muschamp oeuvre, and the latter isn't done yet. Let's hold off on the grand picture until we see a little more.

[ETGator1]

We came in with 77 in 12. The 79 must include a couple of walkons who were awarded one year ships.

It's going to be impossible to come in at 85 every year. I'd be happy with consistent low 80s. The problem is beyond the coaches approach to recruiting.

Jeremy Foley does not allow grayshirting. The only time I've seen it used at UF was with Channing Crowder when he was asked to come in January after he had a knee injury. Planning to come in at 85 isn't possible without a grayshirt program like Alabama and LSU uses. Sometimes it's voluntary and sometimes it's not. That's why Jeremy Foley doesn't allow it at UF. When it doesn't go well, it can be a blackeye to the football program by giving the perception that the affected recruits weren't dealt with fairly.

[gatordee]

Urban without TT in the SEC was 17-8 winning , while Urban with TT was 48-7. Saban was 60-12

[gatorman_07732]

Roster management is all a great balancing act.

1) You never want to sign guys to just fill out the roster. We have high standards for a reason. We want every scholarship to be competitive.

2) You always want to leave space for the elusive "big fish" who wait until signing day before announcing.

3) You want a relatively even number of signings for each 4-year span. Nothing was worse than signing 28-30 kids one year then only having space for 15 the next.

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.

Good post....you always need to leave some slack in the line and the balancing act is dead on. Nice thoughts

[rserina]

Urban without TT in the SEC was 17-8 winning , while Urban with TT was 48-7. Saban was 60-12
Take away the one terrible final season with Brantley and Meyer was 13-3 in the SEC without Tebow, including a 5-3 first season that was better than Saban's first year. Also kind of funny that some assume Tebow as a second string quarterback should somehow get the credit for Meyer's success with the 2006 team. By that token, Brantley would get credit for the two 13-win seasons preceding his starting tour.

[SECund2nun]

Meyer is a great coach, recruiter, but he is not that good in roster management.

[demosthenes]

Meyer is a great coach, recruiter, but he is not that good in roster management.

He probably will be better now as he's an extremely smart guy and learns. Keep in mind, Florida was Urban's first sustained job. His prior two were two-year rebuild jobs and move on.

[1984Gator]

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

That's basically what has kept us from having sustained success like Bama and led to some ugly seasons. Football takes a toll. It was extremely apparent during the second half of the season until guys got health again for FSU.

We're Florida. We'll always get the elite guys. It's how we fill out the roster that determines how we sustain success. And roster management is a huge part of any sport.

Things have changed for Florida over the years. before Spurrier, we would go after marginal players and oversign knowing full well that students would fail to qualify and/or flunk out. During Spurrier's era, things changed at Florida. We've rarely reached for the academically incompetent athlete since then and truth be told, we've avoided the problems that come with. Look no further than FSU to see what I mean. I fault Meyer to an extent for ending up well less than 85 players. Some of his recruits were reaches. In fact, we tended to burn through roughly 30% of 5 star recruits that either couldn't go to class or couldn't stay out of jail. I some time think he wasn't as good at sifting through the stars to find the real talent. I suppose this isn't surprising since he never played the game. Muschamp on the other hand has proven to have a real eye for talent and gets young players more involved with valuable playing time. At any rate when Meyer left we suffered no less than 10 transfers. In retrospect, that was Muschamp cleaning house.

[1984Gator]

Take away the one terrible final season with Brantley and Meyer was 13-3 in the SEC without Tebow, including a 5-3 first season that was better than Saban's first year. Also kind of funny that some assume Tebow as a second string quarterback should somehow get the credit for Meyer's success with the 2006 team. By that token, Brantley would get credit for the two 13-win seasons preceding his starting tour.

I think Meyer's assistants had a lot to do with his success. They've been successful; elsewhere. When they left, the quality of product on the field went to crap. hard to believe meyer had Brantley in front of Newton on the depth chart!

[1984Gator]

Meyer is a great coach, recruiter, but he is not that good in roster management.

I'm not even sure that is true. We certinly wasted a large number of spots on 5 star rcruits that didn't pan out. The B1G was pitiful this year and while Meyer went undefeated, that team was more like a 7th place team in the SEC.

[thedyc09]

Meyer is a great coach, recruiter, but he is not that good in roster management.

An overstatement. Some of the whiffs we ended up having with Meyer that led to (relatively) boom or bust classes had something to do with recruiting some of the most sought-after and wide-open recruits. I have a feeling that, largely due to OSU's recruiting footprint dominance, Urban isn't going to have to walk the razor thin margins he had to here at Florida. Instead of having 18 commits and looking to nail 6 on NSD, he can be sitting at 22 and waiting on 3 while still sticking to his "Wait 'til next year" philosophy.

[rserina]

I think Meyer's assistants had a lot to do with his success. They've been successful; elsewhere. When they left, the quality of product on the field went to crap. hard to believe meyer had Brantley in front of Newton on the depth chart!
That's ridiculous. Of course you need a good staff to be an elite program (unless you are Nick Saban, who micromanages everything in his program and probably hasn't eaten at home with his family for two decades). But outside of Mattison, all of those guys were riding Meyer's coattails, like Brandon at BGSU and Whittingham at Utah did before them. Mullen (who was vilified repeatedly around here), Gonzales, Addazio, Heater all fit very well with the staff, but they were anonymous before Meyer. Strong was mocked as a terrible hire when Meyer retained him because of the 2004 defense.

It is laughable too that one season represents "the quality of the product" going to crap. What happened when Mattison and Holliday left? Did the "quality of the product" go to crap then? Seems like we were immensely improved on defense in 2008 and won a national title. We lost massive quantities of outstanding players to the NFL in 2010 who represented not only our best talent, but our most experienced players and best leaders, to go along with overhaul of the defensive staff after Strong and Bedford left. That takes a toll.

Whatever. I hardly even show up on these stupid "bash Meyer" threads anymore because I am past defending the guy. Only the Florida fanbase belittles the accomplishments of a coach who won two national titles in six years on the job and made us the dominant national recruiting power we were. If you can't see how good of a coach and recruiter he was (whatever your personal opinions about his "character" or roster management or media relations or whatever other reason these boards see fit to get their granny panties bent out of shape over), then there is no reasoning with you.

[socraticsilence]

After years of self imposed probation, we're finally going to be playing at the full 85 scholarship level. I'm pretty sure we were below it every year under Meyer and were this year as well.

Imagine what this team is going to look like once we have the depth of a full roster?

Scout shows 79 for 2012
72 for 2011
80 for 2010
78 for 2009
79 for 2008
71 for 2007
79 for 2006
81 for 2005
2004 shows 87, meaning 2 or more transferred before the season started.

It makes what we've accomplished that much more impressive, but our last coach's recruiting philosophy was bunk. In years we had far superior talent, we could win, but when we didn't, we didn't have the depth to survive.

His recruiting philosophy worked pretty well, but for 2 big misses (Brantley on talent and Cam on character) we're a title contending team every year but 2: his first (2005) and his 3rd (2007 when we lost basically our entire team), as is we won 2 titles and were in position to play for another, we had only one truly down year (2010) and with a good QB that doesn't happen (we win 10 games with just a healthy Sturgis). It was admittedly more of a top heavy Saban/Carroll approach whereas Boom clearly prefers the Mack Brown offer a ton of lower star players early philosophy.

Additionally, the numbers for the last 2 years aren't entirely on Meyer as a decent amount of top talent left when it became clear that Muschamp was moving from an offense interested in scoring points to one primarily concerned with ToP and field position.

[socraticsilence]

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

That's basically what has kept us from having sustained success like Bama and led to some ugly seasons. Football takes a toll. It was extremely apparent during the second half of the season until guys got health again for FSU.

We're Florida. We'll always get the elite guys. It's how we fill out the roster that determines how we sustain success. And roster management is a huge part of any sport.

We were the only top school to even offer Brandon, and Boom wouldn't even consider it as he doesn't offer people who don't fit certain benchmarks, a 5'7" 3rd down back/ return specialist? What on earth makes you think Boom looks twice at that guy-- this is a man who only offered this year's Heisman winner at safety.

[elrongator]

I'm sick of all the Meyer apologists around here making every thread an open forum to argue how great he was for us. The bottom line is he's gone and he crapped on our kitchen floor before he left. He's now actively trying to raid our kitchen supply line.
F Urban Meyer.
We should strive yearly to maintain 85 active players on our roster and there is absolutley no excuse for failing to make that number even if you finish the roster with Schollies awarded to valued walk-ons.
I for one am happy we now have a coach who can count all the way to 85.

By the way...did I mention that we should all say F Urban Meyer?!!!?
He's not our coach, he's recruiting and coaching against us.
Wake up people!!

[socraticsilence]

Things have changed for Florida over the years. before Spurrier, we would go after marginal players and oversign knowing full well that students would fail to qualify and/or flunk out. During Spurrier's era, things changed at Florida. We've rarely reached for the academically incompetent athlete since then and truth be told, we've avoided the problems that come with. Look no further than FSU to see what I mean. I fault Meyer to an extent for ending up well less than 85 players. Some of his recruits were reaches. In fact, we tended to burn through roughly 30% of 5 star recruits that either couldn't go to class or couldn't stay out of jail. I some time think he wasn't as good at sifting through the stars to find the real talent. I suppose this isn't surprising since he never played the game. Muschamp on the other hand has proven to have a real eye for talent and gets young players more involved with valuable playing time. At any rate when Meyer left we suffered no less than 10 transfers. In retrospect, that was Muschamp cleaning house.

Where does this "Meyer unwilling to play young guys" thing come from? I remember Percy as a true frosh lighting it up, Jenkins, Haden, Wright, James all saw significant time as freshman, Tim won the Heisman as a true soph, Demps and Rainey were primary backs as underclassmen, Hernandez saw the field quite a bit early, as with virtually every other criticism of Urban this is hindsight stuff which doesn't hold up too well under scrutiny. Honestly on offense Meyer seems to have been far more willing to play young guys than Boom (Matt Jones and Driskel are the only underclassmen skill position players with significant offensive contributions), while defensively they're similar in terms of allowing young guys to see the field.

[socraticsilence]

I'm not even sure that is true. We certinly wasted a large number of spots on 5 star rcruits that didn't pan out. The B1G was pitiful this year and while Meyer went undefeated, that team was more like a 7th place team in the SEC.

The guys been arguably the best coach in school history at every stop he's made, i just don't get the way some people can't admit he was good for us, he made a mistake letting a legacy recruit who didn't fit his approach take up a scholarship and in promoting the Dazzler (though given our offense the last two seasons I think we may have been overly harsh to the man) but he also won 2 titles was up for a 3rd recruited 2 Heisman winners (one who left because he couldn't keep his nose clean). I swear a lot of posters on here honestly seem to think Meyer is an average to slightly above average coach who lucked into Tebow and Harvin and captured lightning in a bottle- like he's Gene Chizik or something.

[rserina]

this is a man who only offered this year's Heisman winner at safety.
This is other side of the spectrum: someone who takes an offhand joke by Muschamp as truth, then uses it to ridicule him. You do realize Muschamp evaluated players for defense, not offense at Texas, and that he never "offered" Manziel as a safety, either, right? The guy never even had an offer from Texas, just like he didn't get an offer from Tech or Okie State or Oklahoma at quarterback, safety, or any other position.

But keep trotting it out to belittle Muschamp, just like your buddies do to Meyer.

[socraticsilence]

This is other side of the spectrum: someone who takes an offhand joke by Muschamp as truth, then uses it to ridicule him. You do realize Muschamp evaluated players for defense, not offense at Texas, and that he never "offered" Manziel as a safety, either, right? The guy never even had an offer from Texas, just like he didn't get an offer from Tech or Okie State or Oklahoma at quarterback, safety, or any other position.

But keep trotting it out to belittle Muschamp, just like your buddies do to Meyer.

Fair point, I meant what i said more to counter the "Meyer wouldn't offer players who didn't fit the mold while Boom did" thing, whereas I think the opposite is true if anything Meyer offered to many marginal/project players, Boom has a narrower band- not as many truly dominant talents but also not as many question marks.

[Gatorrick22]

I'm going to say it: Urban Meyer!

*runs away*

And he's actively trying to poach our commits!!! :angry: