Harden, 1st game with Houston, wow, Parsons did well too.

[corpgator]

Harden actually had top 10 efficiency and win shares last year, so I thought OKC should have signed him over Ibaka. A big man is more valuable, but the 2 guard is the hardest position to fill in the NBA right now. That's why Beal went so high.

I never thought he'd bust right out of the gate like this, though.

Parsons had himself a pretty solid game as well. 11/7/6 and played the 2nd most minutes behind Harden.

[madgator]

not on an official record anywhere but I have to admit that I was 100% wrong on Harden. I thought for sure he was going to be a bust out of college.

Instead, he is starting to remind me of Ginobili, a player that in my opinion was one of the top 10-15 players in the NBA over the past 10 years.

tremendously underrated due to submitting to team success. he is one of the very few players that has such a keen sense of the game that he can make guys look silly as he seems to always be one step ahead. a sort of Larry Bird quality if you will.

Harden is showing some glimpses of that kind of ability.

[jeffphillips21]

I was WAY off on Harden too. I knew he was good but thought 25-30th best player in the league at most. Tonight he was off the charts and Houston is the perfect fit for him. I thought it was a stretch putting him on Team USA but showed tonight he could be an all-star. He's got the ability and more so the confidence to match...and the willingness of a team to let the new guy jack up 25 shots on his first night. Incredible performance.

[tupacbiff]

Surprise I was right on harden. When you hear about him being one of the toughest one on one guards in the ucla pick up games and yet plays tge game tge right way it should not be a surprise.

[regurgigator]

I always liked Harden's game more than Westbrook's. I was glad to see the trade as I was concerned about the Thunder overtaking the Heat :grin:

[corpgator]

Surprise I was right on harden. When you hear about him being one of the toughest one on one guards in the ucla pick up games and yet plays tge game tge right way it should not be a surprise.

Except he's one of the leagues biggest floppers, making the above analogy to Ginobili spot on.

[gogators73]

Joakim had a great first game too. 23 points, 10 rebs, 5 steals, 3 blocks, 11-12 on FT's, in 40 minutes of play. All without Rose too.

[tupacbiff]

Rumor has it he was caught with serge ibakas girl. His ex sent the pics to serge and he was traded the next day.

[gatorfan96]

Surprise I was right on harden. When you hear about him being one of the toughest one on one guards in the ucla pick up games and yet plays tge game tge right way it should not be a surprise.

Didn't he go to Arizona State?

[twodaparty]

Didn't he go to Arizona State?

He did. Pretty sure we beat his team in the NIT at asu with parsons, calethes and co. Effectively ended Harden's collegiate career.

[corpgator]

Rumor has it he was caught with serge ibakas girl. His ex sent the pics to serge and he was traded the next day.

Doubt that. One extra year guaranteed and $26 million was what forced the trade.

[Gatorryder]

He did. Pretty sure we beat his team in the NIT at asu with parsons, calethes and co. Effectively ended Harden's collegiate career.

How can you come to that conclusion? The following year he was the Pac-10 Conf POTY, named a consensus All-American and got ASU back to the NCAA Tournament. After the season he declared for the draft.

[sleeze]

Love Harden's game. Dude is a winner. And is as smart as they come.

[tupacbiff]

Doubt that. One extra year guaranteed and $26 million was what forced the trade.

Don't think so. Yes it waS eventual

[bakaduin]

Don't think so. Yes it waS eventual

You're definitely wrong on this one.

Harden was already agreeing to take 1 less year on his contract due to new CBA rules (you can only give out two 5 year max year contracts which Westbrook and Durant have for OKC). Not to mention he was giving up playing time and being a starter by coming off the bench in OKC.

He wanted max money for the four years in return. Presti spoke with Houston the night before he sat down to the table for his final negotiations. He told Morey if Harden didn't except his offer of 53 million he would be traded the next day. Harden's agent wanted the max 60 million and that was that the trade happened the next day.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Ibaka. It was a move by a team that wanted to maximize profits and was short sighted in their hunt. They know with Durant/Westbrook they are competing and a relevant team in the NBA every year and thus will sell out. Unfortunately without Harden they aren't beating the Lakers and sure as hell aren't beating the Heat.

[gatorrick1]

Rumor has it he was caught with serge ibakas girl. His ex sent the pics to serge and he was traded the next day.

As usual Tuba you are way off. I happen to know the situation in OKC very well and Harden being traded had nothing to do with any girl. It was all about financials, Presti did what he had to do to keep some financial flexibility in that franchise. Dude you must just enjoy making crap up. You really have no clue.

[gatorrick1]

You're definitely wrong on this one.

Harden was already agreeing to take 1 less year on his contract due to new CBA rules (you can only give out two 5 year max year contracts which Westbrook and Durant have for OKC). Not to mention he was giving up playing time and being a starter by coming off the bench in OKC.

He wanted max money for the four years in return. Presti spoke with Houston the night before he sat down to the table for his final negotiations. He told Morey if Harden didn't except his offer of 53 million he would be traded the next day. Harden's agent wanted the max 60 million and that was that the trade happened the next day.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Ibaka. It was a move by a team that wanted to maximize profits and was short sighted in their hunt. They know with Durant/Westbrook they are competing and a relevant team in the NBA every year and thus will sell out. Unfortunately without Harden they aren't beating the Lakers and sure as hell aren't beating the Heat.

The first part of this post is accurate the second part is off base in regards to Presti being short sided and maximizing profits. Presti knows he couldn't be locked into nearly 4 max deals and still have any flexibility in roster managent. I will also say if Westbrook continues to play like he did last night he may be sent packing one day as well. Sam and Brooks have a vision built around the second best player in the NBA, KD.

[bakaduin]

The first part of this post is accurate the second part is off base in regards to Presti being short sided and maximizing profits. Presti knows he couldn't be locked into nearly 4 max deals and still have any flexibility in roster managent. I will also say if Westbrook continues to play like he did last night he may be sent packing one day as well. Sam and Brooks have a vision built around the second best player in the NBA, KD.

Well we can agree that my first part was fact and certainly my second part was opinion (which we differ on).

I disagree strongly with you as a matter of fact. With Durant, Westbrook, and Harden locked up you have a top 5 player, a top 10 player, and a top 25 player for the next 4 years. All of them, under the age of 25 and haven't hit their ceiling yet. Financial flexibility? As the Miami Heat showed you don't need it when you have that level of talent in 3 players. You fill in the rest with role players and guys who fit your team model for cheap. Last years team was ready made to go back to the Finals this year. You can't improve on that you can only screw it up.

Really I can't say it any better than Bill Simmons.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8573213/the-harden-disaster

[corpgator]

Well we can agree that my first part was fact and certainly my second part was opinion (which we differ on).

I disagree strongly with you as a matter of fact. With Durant, Westbrook, and Harden locked up you have a top 5 player, a top 10 player, and a top 25 player for the next 4 years. All of them, under the age of 25 and haven't hit their ceiling yet. Financial flexibility? As the Miami Heat showed you don't need it when you have that level of talent in 3 players. You fill in the rest with role players and guys who fit your team model for cheap. Last years team was ready made to go back to the Finals this year. You can't improve on that you can only screw it up.

Really I can't say it any better than Bill Simmons.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8573213/the-harden-disaster

I think OKC didn't pick correctly. I would have jettisoned Westbrook and kept Harden. Westbrook relies too much on athleticism and that doesn't last very long in the NBA. They could have then went with a starting lineup of Maynor, Harden, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins.

Or better yet, Amnesty Perkins sign Harden to max and trade Harden or Westbrook depending on how the season played out.

[bakaduin]

I think OKC didn't pick correctly. I would have jettisoned Westbrook and kept Harden. Westbrook relies too much on athleticism and that doesn't last very long in the NBA. They could have then went with a starting lineup of Maynor, Harden, Durant, Ibaka and Perkins.

Or better yet, Amnesty Perkins sign Harden to max and trade Harden or Westbrook depending on how the season played out.

You wouldn't want to drop Perkins this year as he has owned Dwight Howard so you need him. A better option would have been let the season play out and then if Harden was doing great (like I assume he would be) match whatever contract is offered to him.

[gatorrick1]

Well we can agree that my first part was fact and certainly my second part was opinion (which we differ on).

I disagree strongly with you as a matter of fact. With Durant, Westbrook, and Harden locked up you have a top 5 player, a top 10 player, and a top 25 player for the next 4 years. All of them, under the age of 25 and haven't hit their ceiling yet. Financial flexibility? As the Miami Heat showed you don't need it when you have that level of talent in 3 players. You fill in the rest with role players and guys who fit your team model for cheap. Last years team was ready made to go back to the Finals this year. You can't improve on that you can only screw it up.

Really I can't say it any better than Bill Simmons.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8573213/the-harden-disaster

You left out Ibaka who has already inked a huge deal. Keep in mind they lost handily in the finals and both Harden and Westbrook are player's that need the ball in their respective hands a bunch. You may recall earlier in the season last year the huge concerns the media had with Westbrook (a scoring pg) playing with Durant. They are so talented they made it work there are many times it doesn't look pretty like last night. In the playoffs they really cut down their TO's and had an amazing run. I don't know that a core of Harden, Westbrook and Durant is any better than what they have now. Not saying it isn't just that let's check out how they are doing later this season. KMart is a heck of a player who is one of the most efficient scorers in the game today. It will be interesting for sure. Also everyone is assuming KMart leaves after this year. I happen to know him very well and he will take less money to play for a contender like OKC. He's never played with players like KD.

Lastly, do not forget the draft picks one a lottery pick. Presti and Brooks love Martin and have confidence in their ability to draft. If they end up signing KMart to a multi year deal And helping themselves in the draft then what they did was the right move IMO.

[sleeze]

I would have got rid of Westbrook before Hardin. Westbrook is tooo inconsistent. He takes bad shots and he can shoot you out of a game. Ive played with guys like that and its no fun. He kinda reminds me of J.R. Smith.

Hardin is the opposite. Does what it takes to win...He doesnt have to jack up 20+ shots to know that he has helped the team in other areas. And he is fine with it. The perfect team player, imo.

[tupacbiff]

Why don't you guys Dave some time and cite bill Simmons article and call it a day.

[sHiNeR2]

Born and raised in OKC. Obviously I have some bias, but I'm cool with how everything went down. Russell had a rough game last night, but make no mistake, he is a hell of a player. For his career, he has averaged 6.8 assists per game. Harden has averaged 2.5. Harden is a beast, but I love how Presti afforded the franchise to have flexibility going forward. I love KMarts game and how he can fit in. Given time we should gel nicely. If we falter in the playoffs, its due more to our lack of interior post game, than losing James Harden. Just my three cents.

[gatorrick1]

Why don't you guys Dave some time and cite bill Simmons article and call it a day.

Simmons is a good guy, great writer and funny as hell, but I wouldn't exactly take his words on bball as gospel.

[corpgator]

You left out Ibaka who has already inked a huge deal. Keep in mind they lost handily in the finals and both Harden and Westbrook are player's that need the ball in their respective hands a bunch. You may recall earlier in the season last year the huge concerns the media had with Westbrook (a scoring pg) playing with Durant. They are so talented they made it work there are many times it doesn't look pretty like last night. In the playoffs they really cut down their TO's and had an amazing run. I don't know that a core of Harden, Westbrook and Durant is any better than what they have now. Not saying it isn't just that let's check out how they are doing later this season. KMart is a heck of a player who is one of the most efficient scorers in the game today. It will be interesting for sure. Also everyone is assuming KMart leaves after this year. I happen to know him very well and he will take less money to play for a contender like OKC. He's never played with players like KD.

Lastly, do not forget the draft picks one a lottery pick. Presti and Brooks love Martin and have confidence in their ability to draft. If they end up signing KMart to a multi year deal And helping themselves in the draft then what they did was the right move IMO.

Not really. Every game came down to a couple of possessions except for game 5, which just snowballed out of control.

[bakaduin]

You left out Ibaka who has already inked a huge deal. Keep in mind they lost handily in the finals and both Harden and Westbrook are player's that need the ball in their respective hands a bunch. You may recall earlier in the season last year the huge concerns the media had with Westbrook (a scoring pg) playing with Durant. They are so talented they made it work there are many times it doesn't look pretty like last night. In the playoffs they really cut down their TO's and had an amazing run. I don't know that a core of Harden, Westbrook and Durant is any better than what they have now. Not saying it isn't just that let's check out how they are doing later this season. KMart is a heck of a player who is one of the most efficient scorers in the game today. It will be interesting for sure. Also everyone is assuming KMart leaves after this year. I happen to know him very well and he will take less money to play for a contender like OKC. He's never played with players like KD.

Lastly, do not forget the draft picks one a lottery pick. Presti and Brooks love Martin and have confidence in their ability to draft. If they end up signing KMart to a multi year deal And helping themselves in the draft then what they did was the right move IMO.

Ibaka is getting paid All Star money for not being an All-star. If anyone should go that is the one right there. KMart is no James Harden. He is a quality player not an all star. Your logic to me just doesn't hold water. They trust their drafting? The purpose of drafting is to hit a home run with an all star caliber player. They did that already! Why would you get rid of him? No matter how good you are the draft is a crap shoot so when you land good young talent don't lose good young talent. See Reggie Jackson and Cole Aldrich their last two 1st rounders.

[gatorrick1]

Ibaka is getting paid All Star money for not being an All-star. If anyone should go that is the one right there. KMart is no James Harden. He is a quality player not an all star. Your logic to me just doesn't hold water. They trust their drafting? The purpose of drafting is to hit a home run with an all star caliber player. They did that already! Why would you get rid of him? No matter how good you are the draft is a crap shoot so when you land good young talent don't lose good young talent. See Reggie Jackson and Cole Aldrich their last two 1st rounders.

Your off base on the sole purpose of the draft in the salary cap era. It's a chance to get inexpensive labor. Your missing the point of financial flexibility. I also disagree with you about Ibaka. He is a very talented, very young 7 footer who has great athletic ability and huge upside. He also is an outstanding person. All those things are rare in the NBA and very valuable.

By the way I love how some of you use some media guys as the bar on whether this was a good move or not. I personally will side with Presti who has proven to be a pretty damn good GM.

[gatordee]

If I were OKC I would have tried tohang onto Harden. The experience that team got last year would have helped very much and you would have had a very young and talented team. Just like I believe the Magic screwed up by replacing some of their team when they lost to the Lakers. Howeve, not quite the same situation.

[bakaduin]

Your off base on the sole purpose of the draft in the salary cap era. It's a chance to get inexpensive labor. Your missing the point of financial flexibility. I also disagree with you about Ibaka. He is a very talented, very young 7 footer who has great athletic ability and huge upside. He also is an outstanding person. All those things are rare in the NBA and very valuable.

By the way I love how some of you use some media guys as the bar on whether this was a good move or not. I personally will side with Presti who has proven to be a pretty damn good GM.

The great thing is time will tell and sooner then later. If OKC doesn't make it back to the finals this year there we will know.

[tupacbiff]

Simmons is a good guy, great writer and funny as hell, but I wouldn't exactly take his words on bball as gospel.

Duh

[gatordd]

the thunder look so dumb today, talking about cap talking about future. The time was now in OKC. They were ready to win now and they had maybe the best young SG in the league.

Give me a break about flexibility. They blew up their team trying to go the cheap route and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Kevin Martin? haha! Rocket's fans have been throwing him out the door since he first got there. Jeremy Lamb is going to be solid but how long will it take? Raptors first round pick could be nice but who knows, they look pretty good this year so far

[corpgator]

45 from Harden last night.

Kobe drops 40 and Lakers lose. Paul absolutely destroyed them.

I think we're going to be declaring Harden the best 2 guard in the league by the end of the year.

[gatorrick1]

the thunder look so dumb today, talking about cap talking about future. The time was now in OKC. They were ready to win now and they had maybe the best young SG in the league.

Give me a break about flexibility. They blew up their team trying to go the cheap route and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Kevin Martin? haha! Rocket's fans have been throwing him out the door since he first got there. Jeremy Lamb is going to be solid but how long will it take? Raptors first round pick could be nice but who knows, they look pretty good this year so far

You are just plain wrong on this one. I happen to know it wasn't about being cheap. You can't have so much money wrapped up in three guys that need the ball in their own hands so much.

Comical comment about Martin. He is one of the most respected players by other NBA guys and GM's.

Harden is terrific but that doesn't mean at the end of the day this trade won't be good all the way around. By the way what Harden is doing is exactly what he wanted. To start and be the man on a team where the offense flows thru him. Can't blame him at all.

[tupacbiff]

The mods should just eliminate any nba post because the masses are so clueless.

[gatordd]

You are just plain wrong on this one. I happen to know it wasn't about being cheap. You can't have so much money wrapped up in three guys that need the ball in their own hands so much.

Comical comment about Martin. He is one of the most respected players by other NBA guys and GM's.

Harden is terrific but that doesn't mean at the end of the day this trade won't be good all the way around. By the way what Harden is doing is exactly what he wanted. To start and be the man on a team where the offense flows thru him. Can't blame him at all.

I never said he wasn't respected I said he is terrible, especially in big games when it matters. The guy can score the rock, no doubt but putting 30 on the bottom teams in the NBA isn't the same thing as being a piece for a title contender. It's about winning championships and harden on the roster gave them the best chance to do that as of now.

Sure they could add some pieces to get back at contention but using the salary cap as your argument is silly. Ie heat lakers celtics All spent big money to win. You're assuming they for sure get another player of hardens ability. if the argument is too many guys needing the ball in their hand then how do you explain mr chuck himself, russell westbrook. he kills durants game as much as he helps it.

If you spend your whole time worried about being cap locked you miss the point, it's not about building when you are ready to win now. It's not like they don't have a legit big in Ibaka. I understand that a max deal for harden would of made additions impossible but they moved the wrong guy if that's their concern. we will see how it plays out.

if they don't make it to the western conference finals this year do you keep your argument? I'll be interested to see.

[gatordd]

The mods should just eliminate any nba post because the masses are so clueless.
:plain:

[gatorrick1]

I never said he wasn't respected I said he is terrible. It's about winning championships and harden on the roster gave them the best chance to do that as of now.

Sure they could add some pieces to get back at contention but using the salary cap as your argument is silly. Ie heat lakers celtics All spent big money to win. You're assuming they for sure get another player of hardens ability. if the argument is too many guys needing the ball in their hand then how do you explain mr chuck himself, russell westbrook. he kills durants game as much as he helps it.

If you spend your whole time worried about being cap locked you miss the point, it's not about building when you are ready to win now. It's not like they don't have a legit big in Ibaka. I understand that a max deal for harden would of made additions impossible but they moved the wrong guy if that's their concern. we will see how it plays out.


Calling Martin terrible means you are clueless. He is one of the top five efficient scorers in the NBA today. Fantastic coaches like Brooks and Pop love him. He is not Harden a completely different player. Someone who can score without having to have the ball in his hands a ton. Until last year where he tried to play with an injured shoulder for awhile he had averaged over 20 ppg for five straight years.

You lose all credibility when u call a player like that horrible. No problem with the argument that OKC is better with Harden all I have tried to inform you guy's is that it wasn't about being cheap. There were several factors and at the end of the day I think it will work out for all parties. Harden wanted to start and be the man, the Thunder don't have to worry about luxury cap penalties or on the court chemistry issues.

Lastly, none of this is my opinion, I happen to have family and friends at every level in the NBA and that includes certain people and players in OKC. But you keep throwing crap against the wall like you know something. I just happen to KNOW you and Tupac are off base.

[gatordd]

Calling Martin terrible means you are clueless. He is one of the top five efficient scorers in the NBA today. Fantastic coaches like Brooks and Pop love him. He is not Harden a completely different player. Someone who can score without having to have the ball in his hands a ton. Until last year where he tried to play with an injured shoulder for awhile he had averaged over 20 ppg for five straight years.

You lose all credibility when u call a player like that horrible. No problem with the argument that OKC is better with Harden all I have tried to inform you guy's is that it wasn't about being cheap. There were several factors and at the end of the day I think it will work out for all parties. Harden wanted to start and be the man, the Thunder don't have to worry about luxury cap penalties or on the court chemistry issues.

Lastly, none of this is my opinion, I happen to have family and friends at every level in the NBA and that includes certain people and players in OKC. But you keep throwing crap against the wall like you know something. I just happen to KNOW you and Tupac are off base.

I promise you, I have watched Martin his entire career. It doesn't matter how efficient he is. He completely disapears when he is needed. Numbers do not always tell the story. Watching the games does That's why I can form my own opinion because I actually watch the games.

I'm not saying that there weren't other factors than money. I'm saying the money factor is a bad reason and will in the end hurt okc.

[sHiNeR2]

I promise you, I have watched Martin his entire career. It doesn't matter how efficient he is. He completely disapears when he is needed. Numbers do not always tell the story. Watching the games does That's why I can form my own opinion because I actually watch the games.

I'm not saying that there weren't other factors than money. I'm saying the money factor is a bad reason and will in the end hurt okc.

Of course he disappears, he's not a franchise player. That's doesn't put him anywhere near terrible.

[gatordd]

Of course he disappears, he's not a franchise player. That's doesn't put him anywhere near terrible.

He is being paid like one

[sHiNeR2]

Not really. He's at the end of a 5yr $54 mil contract. Just under $11 mil per year.

[gatorrick1]

Not really. He's at the end of a 5yr $54 mil contract. Just under $11 mil per year.

This is correct. He is scheduled to make 12.4 mil in the last yr of his 5 yr deal. That means OKC can try him out until the trade deadline and if he is a good fit they can resign him. If he isn't working out he is a hell of a trade piece due to the fact he has an expiring contract. However, OKC has already told him they intend to keep him there and resign him. Brooks coached him in Sacremento and loves his game. Feels like he is a perfect fit to play next to Durant and Westbrook because he is so good playing without the ball, extremely efficient, very hard working and humble.

Presti knew it was possible Harden would not resign for less than the Max and also that Harden wanted to be the man on a team so he has been preparing for this all summer. He and Brooks reviewed tons of potential trade offers and players for the last few months and the Houston deal was their favorite because of Kevin and the Toronto draft pick.

Lamb is a throw in, Houston was not happy with him, but many GM's coveted him so Presti knows he's an asset that he can move later. Not surprisingly for those of us that really follow bball, Jeremy hasn't made a good impression due to his effort and Bball IQ

[bakaduin]

You are just plain wrong on this one. I happen to know it wasn't about being cheap. You can't have so much money wrapped up in three guys that need the ball in their own hands so much.

Comical comment about Martin. He is one of the most respected players by other NBA guys and GM's.

Harden is terrific but that doesn't mean at the end of the day this trade won't be good all the way around. By the way what Harden is doing is exactly what he wanted. To start and be the man on a team where the offense flows thru him. Can't blame him at all.

Morey did an interview just last month saying his whole philosophy as a GM is that there are very few elite players in the league, you need one to win, and you trade for one when you get the chance. That is all you have to know about this trade. Martin is not elite. Harden is. I also disagree that Harden needs the ball in his hands "so much". He was content to put up efficient points without needing to be a starter much less dominate the ball.

[gatordd]

Morey did an interview just last month saying his whole philosophy as a GM is that there are very few elite players in the league, you need one to win, and you trade for one when you get the chance. That is all you have to know about this trade. Martin is not elite. Harden is. I also disagree that Harden needs the ball in his hands "so much". He was content to put up efficient points without needing to be a starter much less dominate the ball.

Thank you

[sHiNeR2]

I think you guys are missing the point. In the post above you wrote "Martin is not elite. Harden is." I don't believe anyone is arguing that Martin is elite. That's why Houston had to throw in a future 1st round pick from Toronto and this years first rounder, to help make up the gap between the players. Obviously Harden is a better player. How much? We will see.

You guys are again severely discounting how important financial flexibility is with the new cba for a small market franchise. The Lakers annd Clippers will have pull and money to pay extra. Lebron in Miami, along with the New York team have pull and money as well. Presti knows this and he acted accordingly.

[sHiNeR2]

I don't really think Harden wanted to be in OKC. Not because he didn't like the city or the team. He wanted a franchise who could give him the 5yr max deal and not the 4yr.

[gatordd]

I don't really think Harden wanted to be in OKC. Not because he didn't like the city or the team. He wanted a franchise who could give him the 5yr max deal and not the 4yr.

Thunder drop another one

[sHiNeR2]

As did Houston

[bakaduin]

I don't really think Harden wanted to be in OKC. Not because he didn't like the city or the team. He wanted a franchise who could give him the 5yr max deal and not the 4yr.

He was fine giving his team the "hometown" discount of having them only pay him 4 years. But he wanted the max for those 4 years. What this really amounts to is 7 million dollars. For 7 million dollars would you rather have Harden for 4 years to go with your other 2 or would you rather not have him? I'd sure as heck rather have him!

[gatordd]

As did Houston

Houston wasn't and still aren't a contender. We disagree, it's okay.

[REM08]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/rockets/NEW-AGE1920X1200.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/rockets/NEW-AGE1920X1200.jpg

[sHiNeR2]

Presti offered a 4yr $55 mil contract. The max was $60mil. If he was cool with a 'hometown discount' he probably would have taken the offer.

[sHiNeR2]

the thunder look so dumb today, talking about cap talking about future. The time was now in OKC. They were ready to win now and they had maybe the best young SG in the league.

Give me a break about flexibility. They blew up their team trying to go the cheap route and it's going to bite them in the ass.

Kevin Martin? haha! Rocket's fans have been throwing him out the door since he first got there. Jeremy Lamb is going to be solid but how long will it take? Raptors first round pick could be nice but who knows, they look pretty good this year so far

We do agree that we disagree. You say we're dumb because we let go of a 'elite' franchise player, I say Harden is better than Martin, but is not a franchise player. You say the flexibility argument is dumb, I say it was the smart way to go. We'll talk again come playoffs.

[madgator]

I think you guys are missing the point. In the post above you wrote "Martin is not elite. Harden is." I don't believe anyone is arguing that Martin is elite. That's why Houston had to throw in a future 1st round pick from Toronto and this years first rounder, to help make up the gap between the players. Obviously Harden is a better player. How much? We will see.

You guys are again severely discounting how important financial flexibility is with the new cba for a small market franchise. The Lakers annd Clippers will have pull and money to pay extra. Lebron in Miami, along with the New York team have pull and money as well. Presti knows this and he acted accordingly.

heard during the Laker telecast this week that if the Lakers sign Howard to a max deal, under the new CBA they will have to pay $90 million in luxury tax alone.

that's right.....$90 million ON TOP of their roster salary.

[gatorrick1]

Thunder drop another one

Hey stop being a clown. KMart was amazing last night, Mr. I watch the games. 28 PTs, 22 in the first half on 6/7 shooting. He single handily kept them in the game first half. Oh but I forgot you don't care about stats because you have seen him and he sucks. What a joke. The Thunders problem right now is not the loss of Harden, but instead how to deal with the fact Perkins is not good and Westbrook is forcing things a little much right now which is always an issue with him.

Something else you don't get, Harden DID NOT want to be there if he was going to have the same role. He wanted to start and have the offense go thru him. Take a look at his fg attempts this year. That's what he wanted along with a Max deal.

[bakaduin]

Hey stop being a clown. KMart was amazing last night, Mr. I watch the games. 28 PTs, 22 in the first half on 6/7 shooting. He single handily kept them in the game first half. Oh but I forgot you don't care about stats because you have seen him and he sucks. What a joke. The Thunders problem right now is not the loss of Harden, but instead how to deal with the fact Perkins is not good and Westbrook is forcing things a little much right now which is always an issue with him.

Something else you don't get, Harden DID NOT want to be there if he was going to have the same role. He wanted to start and have the offense go thru him. Take a look at his fg attempts this year. That's what he wanted along with a Max deal.

I disagree (though not with your first part I agree Westbrook and Perkins are the big problems). Harden wanted a 4 year max deal. Plain and simple, if they offer him 60 mil and 4 years he signs. Would he have rather been the go to guy? Absolutely but he was willing to give that up to stay on a team with teammates he loved and a chance to win. He was willing to take 1 year less which is generous in itself. Instead he got a max 5 year deal and gets to be the man.

[gatorrick1]

I disagree (though not with your first part I agree Westbrook and Perkins are the big problems). Harden wanted a 4 year max deal. Plain and simple, if they offer him 60 mil and 4 years he signs. Would he have rather been the go to guy? Absolutely but he was willing to give that up to stay on a team with teammates he loved and a chance to win. He was willing to take 1 year less which is generous in itself. Instead he got a max 5 year deal and gets to be the man.

I know that is what's being reported so far, but I have contacts in that organization and that is simply not the case. I think it will leak out eventually, but the truth is Harden wanted his role to change. He felt he had sacrificed enough and he wanted to show just how good he can be. I absolutely don't blame him at all. He is in the prime of his career and deserves the money and chance to shine.

We will see how it all works out. This was a long term play by the Thunder Brass and Harden. As you can see with the Lakers, chemistry takes a while to work out so we will all see the impact of this as we go down the road.

[corpgator]

heard during the Laker telecast this week that if the Lakers sign Howard to a max deal, under the new CBA they will have to pay $90 million in luxury tax alone.

that's right.....$90 million ON TOP of their roster salary.

The new luxury tax penalties are harsh, especially for repeat offenders. NYC under Isaiah Thomas would have had to pony up over $250 million for one year in just luxury taxes for being a repeat offender with a massive payroll.

[gatorrick1]

The new luxury tax penalties are harsh, especially for repeat offenders. NYC under Isaiah Thomas would have had to pony up over $250 million for one year in just luxury taxes for being a repeat offender with a massive payroll.

This is exactly right. Small market teams will not put themselves in a position to have to pay luxury tax. I believe with the new CBA it's $1.50/$1 over the cap. It's really designed to keep even the big market teams from spending over the cap.

[corpgator]

This is exactly right. Small market teams will not put themselves in a position to have to pay luxury tax. I believe with the new CBA it's $1.50/$1 over the cap. It's really designed to keep even the big market teams from spending over the cap.

Repeat offender tax for the 15 million+ range is 4.25/1. 3.25 for non-repeats.

[gatordd]

Hey stop being a clown. KMart was amazing last night, Mr. I watch the games. 28 PTs, 22 in the first half on 6/7 shooting. He single handily kept them in the game first half. Oh but I forgot you don't care about stats because you have seen him and he sucks. What a joke. The Thunders problem right now is not the loss of Harden, but instead how to deal with the fact Perkins is not good and Westbrook is forcing things a little much right now which is always an issue with him.

Something else you don't get, Harden DID NOT want to be there if he was going to have the same role. He wanted to start and have the offense go thru him. Take a look at his fg attempts this year. That's what he wanted along with a Max deal.

hey I was kidding around, settle down.

[gatordd]

Repeat offender tax for the 15 million+ range is 4.25/1. 3.25 for non-repeats.

:angel: