I am Tired of KY Basketball being a Mockery of NCAABB

[DowntownGator]

The fab five mentality obviously works. GO CATS?! Right? Unfortunately, and unwittingly for their fans, it cheats the fun out of college basketball for everybody else. How KY (I love that acronym ... it is so fitting for them) fans think the basketball theater they put on the floor is entertaining is explainable only by their self absorbed, selfish and self righteous blindness.

Hopefully this silliness is a permanent fixture so everyone will wake up to the mockery KY is making of college basketball.

Consider: Suppose they win NC every year for the next five years with 5 new freshman faces every year? How fun would that be? KY fans (and even those fans of CBB itself) never get to know the players because they obviously don't give a crap about college other than it being a springboard for their one and done, and they leave school early with NO intention of even finishing two semesters every year.

Sorry, KY Basketball and all their ignorant supporting fans are bastardizing a good sport right now.

This isn't jealousy, this is the truth. I'd rather the Gators go after quality PEOPLE who commit to busting their arse and representing UF, and in turn the fans get the bonus of a reasonable chance to know the players, their families, and their development over the course of their 1+ year careers, rather than get dealt royal straight flushes every year in the recruiting game because THAT IS PART OF THE FUN!! I'd rather get BEAT in the SECCG or NCG every year by the CATS than play by their phony standards. The '04s coming out of nowhere made my LIFE with respect to college basketball entertainment. KY says forget that shite, we got a #1 system so check it:

And I say give them what they want! Give 'em the top five NBA draft picks every year, the #1 recruiting ranking, the #1 preseason ranking, the #1 SEC ranking, the RSSECC, the SECTCG, the #1 overall seed in the NCAAT, and the Crystal Ball. Wouldn't NCAABB be such a blast then!!?

Boring!

I'd rather be runner up to that phoniness any day.

So thanks Cats and fans for creating this caricature of a basketball show (with a proven cheater no less!) you are putting on right now and this sham of dressing it up as the appearance of "sport" ...

Fn phonies. Fans and players who support that shite.

I will never respect a freshman team of one and dones who were recruited specifically to play one year in order to win the NC.

I never hated KY before, to be honest with you bros. But after what they did to Tubby Smith and how they tried to snatch Billy D from UF and now this #1at everythingatallcosts crap with Calipari, sorry, they have finally confirmed themselves as THE #1 shite stain in NCAABB.

The irony on that one will be lost on them, no doubt.



GO GATORS!!!!!

[your_perfect_enemy]

so the nba imposes a stupid rule and somehow uk is making a mockery of college basketball?

[regurgigator]

UK is now my least favorite team in college basketball also, but although they won the national championship last season, I'm not convinced their strategy will be as successful as you think it will be.

[intimigator1]

I'm in total agreement with the poster.....I am always going to be a fan of the player that isn't blessed with the easy talents but works hard to win and does it without NBA skills. I HATE, yes HATE, one and done's, by the way the name of the player that lasted 1 year for the Gators was???????? (you have time to get the name right by checking the internet) Most Gators could not name that individual but...call the name Noah, Al and on and on and it's easy. It's because these players became Gators..they won the hearts of fans with their dedication, they came back to win another, that my friends is what the game is about. These Kentucky one and done's should just go and play pro and fulfill their short term egos. I hate one and done's and will always hate one and done's and yes that goes for that dude that learned to play in the second half of the season.

[ThePlayer]

Calimari won't win a Natty every year....or even every other year.
You don't build a winning team with great players alone..usually.
And most of these one-and-done players come with baggage.

[intimigator1]

Even in high school a person could pull together the best 5 from opposing schools and beat a team...is it right? Nope..the game is bigger than what Kentucky thinks is important and I say screw them and screw the fans that support this type of game. Winning becomes very, very boring if it is expected all the time before the season even starts...the game deserves better than Kentucky..bring on the real great teams..Florida, Ucla, Indiana, Michigan, Villanova....at least we have one thing in common...we recruit players for the long haul and see how it turns out..Kentucky recruits for the short time only to see the experience. Yay..Kentucky..you rock..blah blah blah.

[jeffphillips21]

The good thing this year is a team like UF returning a core of talented players working in a system built over years could derail KY. Man I would love to see it. Watch a well-oiled machine on both ends of the floor run circles around a bunch of talented, but not cohesive and often sloppy, "5-star" players get run off the court. Maybe it's just a dream but that's the beauty of basketball - chemistry and coaching does matter. I'd take BD any day, against anyone.

[UFG8rGuy3283]

I've been frustrated with UK before but over time my philosophy has changed. Winning in college basketball, in today's game, revolves around a few different things: Talent, Coaching, Continuity and Chemistry.

Every now and then you will see a title from a group put together like UK's class last year. That team had LOADS of talent and Cal did a nice job getting them to play together enough with the already established players to make a title run. The chemistry was there and they had Anthony Davis, who was so good at impacting the game where needed. It was his unselfishness, IMHO, that led to UK winning it all last year.

This year's UK team will be good, but I don't know that anyone expects them to win a National Title.

What I am trying hard to understand is, Billy is starting to shift his recruiting a bit more toward 1 and done kids, which is not a bad thing. I don't know any Gator fan who thinks that commitments from Beal and more recently Walker and Hill (both projected 1 and dones by many) are a bad thing. We all seem to want Randle and Parker and they are potential 1 and dones also.

I have always felt as if Calipari is a used car salesman type who is a good basketball coach, but an even better people reader/motivator. He will use any advantage he can and will push the rules as far as he can. He has a sketchy track record and is not the type of person I would necessarily want my son to play for.

I realize that a big reason for UF having 2 potential 1 and dones in the 2013 class is that they both are Florida kids and played AAU ball together, but how many of us are really going to complain if we have 1 or 2 elite guys in each class?

What are we going to say if Billy pulls either Randle or Parker in this class and we have 3 leave at the end of the year next year or even more if either of the transfer guys blow up?

I realize it can get frustrating, but I'm not sure why we spend so much time talking about UK on this board and obsessing about Calipari.

[regurgigator]

Good comments UFG8rGuy. I completely agree with most of it.

I'm not sure Billy has changed his recruiting tactics. Maybe someone like Bullis can chime in with some more-informed insight than I (a complete outsider) can give, but I think Billy generally over the years would recruit the best players that he believes fits his mold and that he believes he has a chance with.

I don't recall the specifics, but I think even with the 04's, there were some other more highly rated players that Donovan recruited that year.

Billy became a little more careful after the Kwame Brown (and others) thing, but I still think he tries to recruit the best team-oriented players around (that fit his style).

What's so distasteful to me about Cal's approach is his total focus on getting one-and-done players and pushing them on to the NBA as soon as possible to make room for next season's crop. No, it's not against the rules, but....ugh! :ill:

[UFG8rGuy3283]

Good comments UFG8rGuy. I completely agree with most of it.

I'm not sure Billy has changed his recruiting tactics. Maybe someone like Bullis can chime in with some more-informed insight than I (a complete outsider) can give, but I think Billy generally over the years would recruit the best players that he believes fits his mold and that he believes he has a chance with.

I don't recall the specifics, but I think even with the 04's, there were some other more highly rated players that Donovan recruited that year.

Billy became a little more careful after the Kwame Brown (and others) thing, but I still think he tries to recruit the best team-oriented players around (that fit his style).

What's so distasteful to me about Cal's approach is his total focus on getting one-and-done players and pushing them on to the NBA as soon as possible to make room for next season's crop. No, it's not against the rules, but....ugh! :ill:

Point taken about Billy's recruiting strategy. I think most can agree that the Kwame Brown incident started to make Billy more guarded against recruiting guys who were projected straight to the pros.

I also think Pel and the other assistants have really helped step up the recruiting.

Add to it Hill and Walker are in state and Beal went #3 overall and hence the interest by guys like Randle and Parker.

I think people just need to stop and consider it may not be far fetched to see Billy have a few more 1 and dones and next thing you know, he might start pulling 2 or more regularly. Will we really complain if he is not breaking any rules and winning?

[gatorman_07732]

Don't worry because when Calipari announces he's going to leave you'll know investigations are not far behind.

[REM08]

I'm in total agreement with the poster.....I am always going to be a fan of the player that isn't blessed with the easy talents but works hard to win and does it without NBA skills. I HATE, yes HATE, one and done's, by the way the name of the player that lasted 1 year for the Gators was???????? (you have time to get the name right by checking the internet) Most Gators could not name that individual but...call the name Noah, Al and on and on and it's easy. It's because these players became Gators..they won the hearts of fans with their dedication, they came back to win another, that my friends is what the game is about. These Kentucky one and done's should just go and play pro and fulfill their short term egos. I hate one and done's and will always hate one and done's and yes that goes for that dude that learned to play in the second half of the season.

I can actually respect this type of opinion - most of it at least. You hate one and dones. Thats fine. At least you're consistent and hate your own one and dones also. Most fans would just make some sort of justification for why its different or acceptable (its not as many...etc etc etc).

I still can't fathom WHY you'd despise Brad Beal having played a year as a Gator - while going to classes and being an overall great kid. Tell me this, did you love other guys on last years team more than you liked Beal? Okay. How many of them would be Gators this year if they could have been picked number 3 in the draft last summer? None of them. You wouldn't have a team this year. You'd have walkons and borrowed players from the women's team. Quit fooling yourself that you're cheering for kids that come from superior moral fiber or integrity - kids without egos or personal ambition. You're cheering for kids that didn't have the same decision to make.

I wonder what you would tell your son if he was in such a position. Would you make him commit to getting a college degree before he moved on to NBA stardom? Would his only other option be Europe or the D-league for a year? If he had Billy in your living room saying that he could play at Florida for however long he felt was necessary in the best interest of him and his family and that at the end of the year Billy would advise him by use of his own experience and his contacts in the NBA about what his options were, would you actually insist that this wasn't a possibility for your son? I seriously doubt it.

That being said, at least you're consistent.

[REM08]

I think people just need to stop and consider it may not be far fetched to see Billy have a few more 1 and dones and next thing you know, he might start pulling 2 or more regularly. Will we really complain if he is not breaking any rules and winning?


Someone rep him for me. He's making too much sense for this thread.

[regurgigator]

Someone rep him for me. He's making too much sense for this thread.

I repped him because I completely agree. I have always said (even after Kwame Brown/Donnell Harvey/etc.) that I thought Billy would go after some one-and-dones if he had the chance and was convinced that their primary focus while at UF would not be on showcasing their skills to the NBA. I've got no problem with those kind of one-and-done players (of which Beal and UK's guys Davis and Kidd-Gilchrist were fine examples).

Actually, I've got no problem with one-and-done players who are most interested in displaying their skills to the NBA either - as long as they're at other schools :happy:


That's all apart from the fact that I can't stand the way Cal is running his program. I've consistently said I see nothing wrong/unethical/unsporting/illegal/whatever about how Cal is doing it (as far as I know anyway). I just find Cal's methods very displeasing aesthetically (if you will). As best I can tell, no other program comes close to this all-consuming focus on one-and-done players and I contend no other program is trying to do it that way either (although granted there are only a few programs that could try to do it Cal's way).


I do hope the NBA increases the wait requirement from 1 year to 2 years (but not the baseball rule!!!). Then, we could argue about the dreaded two-and-done player :whistle:

[dailydoublecat]

I just don't see the problem with a one and done player. As a Kentucky fan I want the best possible recruits I could get. It is up to the players to work hard to achieve their dreams of playing in the NBA and supporting their families.
Could you honestly say to Davis and Gilchrist that they should come back? What if they got hurt or their stock dropped?

Calipari is paid to win basketball games. I for one think one or two four year players are fine but if you want to win and win big you need to get elite talent and they don't stay very long nor should they!
Jeff

[tupacbiff]

I just don't see the problem with a one and done player. As a Kentucky fan I want the best possible recruits I could get. It is up to the players to work hard to achieve their dreams of playing in the NBA and supporting their families.
Could you honestly say to Davis and Gilchrist that they should come back? What if they got hurt or their stock dropped?

Calipari is paid to win basketball games. I for one think one or two four year players are fine but if you want to win and win big you need to get elite talent and they don't stay very long nor should they!
Jeff

Delusional.

No way it's as much fun rooting for a team w all one and dines compared to kids who came up through the program.

However you have proven to be just another delusional uk fan.

[gatordee]

Last year Uk had just enough seasons players to go with the one and dones. Without some type of seasoned players on their team, they will not win it all. This year will be an example of what happens without the seasoned players.

[dailydoublecat]

Last year Uk had just enough seasons players to go with the one and dones. Without some type of seasoned players on their team, they will not win it all. This year will be an example of what happens without the seasoned players.

Very good points! We shall see in the next two years how KY does with these young ins. I will still take talent over experience every day of the week!
Jeff

[gobigblue]

Delusional.

No way it's as much fun rooting for a team w all one and dines compared to kids who came up through the program.

However you have proven to be just another delusional uk fan.

I'm afraid you're another jealous fan. You'd give anything to be a National Champion again....and Billy is doing his best for you - by recruiting elite 1-and-done talent!

Understandably, college basketball isn't what it used to be. That's neither Coach Cal's fault or UK's. Either you adapt your recruiting philosophy or you will continue to be beat by teams who do.

Either re-direct your ire toward the NBA's one-and-done rule, or simply admit you're jealous.

[tupacbiff]

I'm afraid you're another jealous fan. You'd give anything to be a National Champion again....and Billy is doing his best for you - by recruiting elite 1-and-done talent!

Understandably, college basketball isn't what it used to be. That's neither Coach Cal's fault or UK's. Either you adapt your recruiting philosophy or you will continue to be beat by teams who do.

Either re-direct your ire toward the NBA's one-and-done rule, or simply admit you're jealous.

I understand your fear. We both know the cal era will result in a ton of vacated wins. Your coach is a cheater and you fully support doing things the wrong way. That speaks volumes as to your moral and ethical view on life. Sad and I feel bad for you.

[Go2gtr]

and Billy is doing his best for you - by recruiting elite 1-and-done talent!

That makes you feel all warm inside. When the 04s just gutted the cats you were twisting in agony because all we had was one McDAA, and he was rejected by KY! So slimy Cal forcing Billy into this one-and-done merry-go-round feels like victory to you. KY fans in general seem like soulless bastards.

[themistocles]

What I really don't understand about Cali is that he was always an excellent recruiter, but somehow, when he got to Kentucky, for some reason, he became an ungodly recruiter.

Billy D was an incredible recruiter when he came to Florida. In all of history, prior to Billy D, Florida had landed 3 McDonalds AA players, yet he got 4 in his first 3 years.

Now Kentucky has a lot of history to attract prospects, but something appears amiss given how many of the top players select the Cats each year. I realize that offering a mother a job at $150,000 per year is not illegal, but I, as Downtown noted, wonder whether this is an ethical approach to recruiting (Ohhh Wait - Ethics and High End NCAA Athletics - whoops sorry about that, obviously those two don't mix very well).

[REM08]

What I really don't understand about Cali is that he was always an excellent recruiter, but somehow, when he got to Kentucky, for some reason, he became an ungodly recruiter.

Billy D was an incredible recruiter when he came to Florida. In all of history, prior to Billy D, Florida had landed 3 McDonalds AA players, yet he got 4 in his first 3 years.

Now Kentucky has a lot of history to attract prospects, but something appears amiss given how many of the top players select the Cats each year. I realize that offering a mother a job at $150,000 per year is not illegal, but I, as Downtown noted, wonder whether this is an ethical approach to recruiting (Ohhh Wait - Ethics and High End NCAA Athletics - whoops sorry about that, obviously those two don't mix very well).

Almost like Urban Meyer wasn't quite pulling in the kind of classes at Utah as he was at Florida?

You say Billy was an incredible recruiter when he came to Florida. Are you implying Cal wasn't when he came to Kentucky? You can't be.

Jobs offered by Duke and UNC (think Hansborough, Duhon) make Brandon Knight's Mom's job (from the company of a booster - not from the school or Cal) seem piddly in comparison. If you're trying to tie these kind of "ethics" to Cals recent success, it doesn't explain why schools/coaches who have done this much more blatantly haven't had similar success.

Also, watch ESPN's current "all access" series with Kentucky. If you think the only difference between Kentucky and UMass or Memphis is "history," you're mistaken. There isn't a mid-major coach in the country that wouldn't recruit significantly better at one of the nations few blue-blooded programs. Also, recruiting comes in cycles. To a degree, the stars are somewhat aligned with him right now given the current structure of college basketball. With the one and done rule and Cal's recent "success" in the NBA draft, his perception by many top recruits has created a wave he's currently riding.

[UFG8rGuy3283]

Almost like Urban Meyer wasn't quite pulling in the kind of classes at Utah as he was at Florida?

You say Billy was an incredible recruiter when he came to Florida. Are you implying Cal wasn't when he came to Kentucky? You can't be.

Jobs offered by Duke and UNC (think Hansborough, Duhon) make Brandon Knight's Mom's job (from the company of a booster - not from the school or Cal) seem piddly in comparison. If you're trying to tie these kind of "ethics" to Cals recent success, it doesn't explain why schools/coaches who have done this much more blatantly haven't had similar success.

Also, watch ESPN's current "all access" series with Kentucky. If you think the only difference between Kentucky and UMass or Memphis is "history," you're mistaken. There isn't a mid-major coach in the country that wouldn't recruit significantly better at one of the nations few blue-blooded programs. Also, recruiting comes in cycles. To a degree, the stars are somewhat aligned with him right now given the current structure of college basketball. With the one and done rule and Cal's recent "success" in the NBA draft, his perception by many top recruits has created a wave he's currently riding.

Agree with this for the most part.

I think the issue is with the NCAA, not the schools or coaches. Ethics, as we once knew them are a thing of the past. Now, you do everything you can to win within the rules or you will be replaced by someone who will. It doesn't make it right, per say, but it's reality.

It was Billy pushing the limits on rules like showing up at Mike Millers house at midnight or something to that effect?

Again, I do not like what Cal is doing but I think there is a good case to be made that if the NCAA actually cared about the integrity of major college sports, USC and OSU would not be relevant in football for the next several years.

[tupacbiff]

Full access edited out the cheating.

[llm85]

Full access edited out the cheating.

I missed it, but from your description I would assume that there was nothing on.

[dailydoublecat]

We all know it goes in cycles. Kentucky and Calipari are a tough duo right now but it will fade it always does. I hope the UK fans are living in the moment and cherishing this recruiting as we won't see anything close to this in a few years.
Jeff

[Gatuar]

I don't even get that worked up by Kentucky beating UF in basketball because they probably should. Our two NC's will last me a lifetime

But watching that all - access and the approach you guys use was disturbing. not saying its against any rules in a book but it's just makes Cal look like a slime ball

Hey you'll get more NC's though...so enjoy it. Finishing 2nd to your "program" really doesn't piss anybody off considering the tactics used to get there

[dailydoublecat]

I don't even get that worked up by Kentucky beating UF in basketball because they probably should. Our two NC's will last me a lifetime

But watching that all - access and the approach you guys use was disturbing. not saying its against any rules in a book but it's just makes Cal look like a slime ball

Hey you'll get more NC's though...so enjoy it. Finishing 2nd to your "program" really doesn't piss anybody off considering the tactics used to get there

What approach are you talking about?

[REM08]

I don't even get that worked up by Kentucky beating UF in basketball because they probably should. Our two NC's will last me a lifetime

But watching that all - access and the approach you guys use was disturbing. not saying its against any rules in a book but it's just makes Cal look like a slime ball

Hey you'll get more NC's though...so enjoy it. Finishing 2nd to your "program" really doesn't piss anybody off considering the tactics used to get there

I'm not trying to attack your opinion, I respect it, I just don't understand. Do you mean recruiting the best possible players - you know, the ones everyone else is after also - and then doing what any honest coach (including Billy) would do at the end of the year and not misinform the kids or attempt to hold them back? Instead, they allow the kids to make the best decision for them and their families - helping as much as possible by doing things like having actual NBA scouts come and watch the kids and give them feedback. Realize this is what Billy did with Beal last year - only with multiple Brad Beals. In case you dont realize how much it is like this, you'll get to see it next year if Billy lands the players he wants most.

I know you're not talking about rule breaking, but I still don't see what negative you could gleam from the show so far. Is it just that it runs counter to the romanticism of old school college basketball before the one and done rule? Having to learn a mostly new team each year? I know that one is tiresome to many UK fans I know. I just don't see how any of this qualifies as questionable or undesirable "tactics."

[tupacbiff]

I'm not trying to attack your opinion, I respect it, I just don't understand. Do you mean recruiting the best possible players - you know, the ones everyone else is after also - and then doing what any honest coach (including Billy) would do at the end of the year and not misinform the kids or attempt to hold them back? Instead, they allow the kids to make the best decision for them and their families - helping as much as possible by doing things like having actual NBA scouts come and watch the kids and give them feedback. Realize this is what Billy did with Beal last year - only with multiple Brad Beals. In case you dont realize how much it is like this, you'll get to see it next year if Billy lands the players he wants most.

I know you're not talking about rule breaking, but I still don't see what negative you could gleam from the show so far. Is it just that it runs counter to the romanticism of old school college basketball before the one and done rule? Having to learn a mostly new team each year? I know that one is tiresome to many UK fans I know. I just don't see how any of this qualifies as questionable or undesirable "tactics."

Let the uk fans continue to bury their heads in the sand regarding the cheating. Pathetic uk fans are utter pathetic.

[intimigator1]

I can actually respect this type of opinion - most of it at least. You hate one and dones. Thats fine. At least you're consistent and hate your own one and dones also. Most fans would just make some sort of justification for why its different or acceptable (its not as many...etc etc etc).

I still can't fathom WHY you'd despise Brad Beal having played a year as a Gator - while going to classes and being an overall great kid. Tell me this, did you love other guys on last years team more than you liked Beal? Okay. How many of them would be Gators this year if they could have been picked number 3 in the draft last summer? None of them. You wouldn't have a team this year. You'd have walkons and borrowed players from the women's team. Quit fooling yourself that you're cheering for kids that come from superior moral fiber or integrity - kids without egos or personal ambition. You're cheering for kids that didn't have the same decision to make.

I wonder what you would tell your son if he was in such a position. Would you make him commit to getting a college degree before he moved on to NBA stardom? Would his only other option be Europe or the D-league for a year? If he had Billy in your living room saying that he could play at Florida for however long he felt was necessary in the best interest of him and his family and that at the end of the year Billy would advise him by use of his own experience and his contacts in the NBA about what his options were, would you actually insist that this wasn't a possibility for your son? I seriously doubt it.

That being said, at least you're consistent.

Without a doubt the answer is yes. I would expect him to follow through on his commitment to his team and his school and a degree would be mandatory. It's not about the money it's about character. You must understand that I started watching college ball in 1970 and it was all about team then..even the superstars stayed till the end and then went on to the pros. Never hurt them and is more admirable than some punk spending a few months wasting everyone's time so that he can play in the NBA. Like I said...there is way more to this than winning a championship and if my son were to get a college scholly then he will certainly fulfill his obligation and stay until he graduates.

[jmoliver]

I get tired of eveyone saying that Cal and UK are doing something wrong. If they are please call and report them. College athletics are changing and the NCAA is also changing. The money is way to huge to not change. Things that got us in trouble in the '80 wouldnt get a retunred call from the NCAA today. The NCAA is not going to chase or investigate a parent or relative getting a job or a recruit driving a nice car. It just isnt going to happen. They would not have investigated Reggie Bush if it didnt get into the court system. Basketball is so much dirtier than football but football is catching up quickly.

By the way, I see on multiple boards that certain schools distance themselves from everone else by calling themselves "blue bloods". Just what the hell is this? How do you get into the club? Do you have to have championships in the 50s to count? XYZ wont look at Florida because he is only looking at blue bloods. New lingo for basketball first schools?

[tegator80]

Let me go WAY out there and bring in a football simile. When FSU brought in Weinke and then won a National Championship - along with him winning the Heisman - I thought that football had lost it's mind, especially about the Heisman. OF COURSE 27 year-olds are going to be more developed emotionally and physically than 18-22 year olds, but the rules allowed it. But my feeling was that if my university pulled a stunt like that, I would question its priorities and take that into consideration my future alliances. Yes, Doug Johnson was sort of like that but he was more or a student with financial means than a fully mature man playing with kids.

I think that Alabama in football and Kentucky in basketball were faced with realities that did not meet their ideals and have had to make choices. The question is if their unequivocal football/basketball factories are going to remain endearing to their constituents in the long haul. Back to basketball and Kentucky, I can't imagine when the UK faithful get around talking about their legacies in the future, the names of Michael Gilchrist and Anthony Davis are going to be held in the same place as Jamal Mashburn and Tayshaun Prince. But they still get the banner in the rafter.

And as I have posted before, there is nothing wrong with the One-and-done getting you to the promised land...if they are the final piece. But a team made up entirely of them and done repeatedly it is not my idea of a program that I personally want to cheer. JMHO

[REM08]

I get tired of eveyone saying that Cal and UK are doing something wrong. If they are please call and report them. College athletics are changing and the NCAA is also changing. The money is way to huge to not change. Things that got us in trouble in the '80 wouldnt get a retunred call from the NCAA today. The NCAA is not going to chase or investigate a parent or relative getting a job or a recruit driving a nice car. It just isnt going to happen. They would not have investigated Reggie Bush if it didnt get into the court system. Basketball is so much dirtier than football but football is catching up quickly.

By the way, I see on multiple boards that certain schools distance themselves from everone else by calling themselves "blue bloods". Just what the hell is this? How do you get into the club? Do you have to have championships in the 50s to count? XYZ wont look at Florida because he is only looking at blue bloods. New lingo for basketball first schools?

Yeah I even hesitated typing that. I too read it a lot and I actually think it usually comes across as arrogant. I don't think recruits care about titles won in the 1950s. I think the 90's seem fairly irrelevant to most recruits these days. I used the term as a lazy way of referring to the group of schools that traditionally have the most success and are the ones the average person will think of most quickly when they think of the sport. Actually, I think the term has more to do with perception than anything else. Kentucky, UCLA and Indiana are considered "blue bloods" by most, yet each school has been quite irrelevant recently. Schools like this exist in football also obviously. My ONLY point in how I used the term was a general way of saying that any coach that moves from a mid-major to a significantly better platform should have at the very least a little easier time recruiting.

[phideltdj]

Jeff's right...you always take the talent it is the number one factor in all levels of basketball. All nba players are good but the top talent wins championships. Sometimes coaching and 4 year players can win you an upset in college but talent will prove out over a season.

[jmoliver]

Thanks for the response REM. it wasn't your use it was more on the national recruiting boards. The fans of those teams will never take UF serious in basketball because we are not a blue blood or more accurately a basketball first school.
Heck, we still get it in football because somehow being good for the last thirty years or so is doesn't count. We need a championship with a leather helmet.

[Gatuar]

I've finally figured it out....it reminds me of the MTV show, "The Real World Lexington"

"Watch what happens when 5 All-Americans....picked to live in a gymnasium...."' you get the point.

Tell me this, Cal brings in 5 studs but 3 of them actually arent' ready for the pros, so his "system" now has a bottleneck. What does he do then?

[REM08]

jmoliver - Agree its odd how fanbases all make up their own rules to brag by. IMO, you guys actually have the trump card (one I'd trade for) in that you're relevant in the two sports that matter. Not many schools can say that.

Gatuar - I see what you're getting at, but the flaw is in your presumption that Cal pushes guys out the door to the NBA. This has been perpetuated by quotes Cal has made about how he'd "wrestle" Anthony Davis to the floor if he tried to come back. He made similar statements about John Wall and Derrick Rose. He's not forcing Daniel Orton out, not Patterson, not Eric Bledsoe etc.

In your example what would happen is that the 2 "studs" that were ready, would leave for the NBA, and the other 3 would return. Jones and Lamb both returned for last year. I don't expect all to leave from this year. Cal has only used all 13 scholarships in one of his four years at UK - and thats including the fact that he's always had a couple walk-ons with year to year scholarships just because they weren't being used. He has 3 of those this year and still has one left over. If ANYTHING, lets say Davis came back for some crazy reason this year, Maybe Noel doesn't pick Kentucky. Players are drafted so much on potential that its not absolutely required that they start and play a ton of minutes in order to get the necessary attention. Daniel Orton cracked the first round while not starting and averaging 3 points and 3 rebounds a game. John Wall and Brandon Knight play on the same team? You're telling me that means one isn't a lottery pick?

[Gatuar]

put it this way....it feels like to the rest of College Baskbetall that's not Duke, UNC or Kansas and it may very well be that way for them soon that it's not a level playing field.

For a sport that decides their champion in one of the most celebrated tournaments in sports with the Final 4 I feel it's a shame this is where we are headed

First time as a basketball fan I've ever felt this way....and I've been following for about 25 years. Why not just make college basketbal a developmental league? For UK it's no longer a college sport

[jmoliver]

Oh I long for the good old days when Billy got a reprimand for knocking on Mike Miller's door at 12:01. Now a poor kid form the Florida panhandle can move his entire family to another state own three expensive cars in three years and his mother raise his two illigetimate kids in a new house and the NCAA just collects checks. Now that is progress.

[regurgigator]

Oh I long for the good old days when Billy got a reprimand for knocking on Mike Miller's door at 12:01. Now a poor kid form the Florida panhandle can move his entire family to another state own three expensive cars in three years and his mother raise his two illigetimate kids in a new house and the NCAA just collects checks. Now that is progress.

Did Billy really get reprimanded for that? I would think he shouldn't have. I don't even see why people call it pushing the limit of the rules (or whatever). To me, there was not even any gray there. Billy met the requirements of the rule, period.

[regurgigator]

put it this way....it feels like to the rest of College Baskbetall that's not Duke, UNC or Kansas and it may very well be that way for them soon that it's not a level playing field.

For a sport that decides their champion in one of the most celebrated tournaments in sports with the Final 4 I feel it's a shame this is where we are headed

First time as a basketball fan I've ever felt this way....and I've been following for about 25 years. Why not just make college basketbal a developmental league? For UK it's no longer a college sport

Although I pulled against them, I didn't think UCLA's dynasty under Wooden was bad for basketball. And, I don't think UK will come close to that kind of domination.

Aside from the domination/fairness issue, I agree that if this strategy works for Cal, then it won't be great for college basketball: seeing UK have annual national championship contending/winning teams every year, and every year seeing a new cast of "characters" come through. :sick:



I still think Cal's methods may have some built-in problems that could show when it gets into a "steady-state" situation. Like Gatuar's question about 3 studs not being ready to move on to the NBA. If those guys were ranked first or second in the nation at their positions coming out of high school and as returning sophs they get replaced in the starting lineup by lottery-level freshmen, it could lead to some ego problems and maybe some unexpected transfers, etc.

[malscott]

I understand your frustration; eventually, we'll be the mockery, hopefully, someday one hopes. They just win, I know, it sucks.

[born2beagator]

Why so so many Kitten fans feel like they have to defend their team on a rival's board?

You don't like what we are posting, ignore it.

Oh, screw Kentucky.

[llm85]

This is what Mark Emmert said the day he announced sanctions against Penn State:


"The corrective and punitive measures the Executive Committee and the Division I Board of Directors have authorized should serve as a stark wake up call to everyone involved in college sports that our first responsibility, as outlined in our Constitution, is to adhere to the fundamental values of respect, fairness, civility, honesty and responsibility..."

If he really meant that, UK would be without a basketball program.

[dailydoublecat]

Although I pulled against them, I didn't think UCLA's dynasty under Wooden was bad for basketball. And, I don't think UK will come close to that kind of domination.

Aside from the domination/fairness issue, I agree that if this strategy works for Cal, then it won't be great for college basketball: seeing UK have annual national championship contending/winning teams every year, and every year seeing a new cast of "characters" come through. :sick:



I still think Cal's methods may have some built-in problems that could show when it gets into a "steady-state" situation. Like Gatuar's question about 3 studs not being ready to move on to the NBA. If those guys were ranked first or second in the nation at their positions coming out of high school and as returning sophs they get replaced in the starting lineup by lottery-level freshmen, it could lead to some ego problems and maybe some unexpected transfers, etc.

If the players that we have don't work their tails off then they deserve to be passed by the new players coming in. If they don't like playing with other talented players then I don't want them on Kentucky anyway.

Jeff