Last 10 pounds...

[kkg8r]

So, the husband and I went on a huge bender the past two years and decided to take it all of this January. We are using an app to track calories - using the calories in/calories out methodology period. No other diet.

Things were going great. My goal was to try to lose around 2 pounds per week and for the most part, I achieved anywhere from 1.5 to 2+ in the first several weeks and the weight loss slowed as my overall weight went down (as expected). What I didn't expect was to be pretty stagnant for all of April. I just can't seem to lose these last 10.

I measure my food, track everything I eat (I do yoga 3-5 times a week and have started playing tennis on weekends now that the courts have reopened).

I have always taken the stance that I want to lose weight based on calorie restriction alone - workouts are for my overall health and I don't want to rely on the calories lost as I don't really know how much I burn. For example, depending on the source an hour of Vinyasa yoga burns between 200-500 calories an hour. Who is right? Additionally, based on the teacher some of the classes are much more strength/cardio and others are more stretch so definitely there is a variation there.

But I digress. My BMR is 1330. A "sedentary" individual is supposed to increase that by 1.2 to 1596 - let's call it 1600. I was eating in the 900-1000 calorie range (not including workouts). According to the calorie deficit I should be losing at least a pound a week. Not happening. In fact, I actually gained weight one week. I didn't freak out after the first or second week, but it's been almost 5 weeks of similar weigh ins and I'm starting to get frustrated.

Not only that, I am a bit nervous that if I go back to "eating normal" - meaning 1600 calories I will gain weight if I am eating 1,000 now and remaining stable.

Any ideas?

[LeafUF]

Hmm, sounds frustrating but plateaus do happen. Here is an article I read recently from Lyle McDonald about what it sounds like you are going through now.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html

A few weeks back I answered a question about Not Losing Fat at a 20% Deficit, What Should I Do? and among other things, one comment I made had to do with a water retention that often occurs during fat loss which can mask fat loss and make it appear as if the diet is not working. I also mentioned specifically that I had written (with a straight-face no less) about whooshes in The Stubborn Fat Solution, along with a related phenomenon which I call squishy fat.

In any case, to expand on that issue, I’m going to excerpt the chapter section from The Stubborn Fat Solution dealing with both phenomena. With that introduction, I give you (again, with a straight face)…


Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat

Before you freak out and think you’ve entered some weird Internet forum where people talk about stalls and whooshes, please bear with me; there’s actually some physiological rationale to what I’m going to discuss.

Many people have noted that fat loss is often discontinuous, that is it often happens in stops and starts. So you’ll be dieting and dieting and doing everything correctly with nothing to show for it. Then, boom, almost overnight, you drop 4 pounds and look leaner.

What’s going on? Back during my college days, one of my professors threw out the idea that after fat cells had been emptied of stored triglyceride, they would temporarily refill with water (glycerol attracts water, which might be part of the mechanism). So there would be no immediate change in size, body weight or appearance. Then, after some time frame, the water would get dropped, the fat cells would shrink. A weird way of looking at it might be that the fat loss suddenly becomes ‘apparent’. That is, the fat was emptied and burned off days or weeks ago but until the water is dropped, nothing appears to have happened.

[LeafUF]

It may just be a case that what you are doing is working but its not showing yet and you need to stick it out. I certainly would not make a drastic change in anyway as it seems you had been making some pretty steady progress. If anything I would tweak the training a little to boost your strength gains. Do more of the harder yoga sessions and fewer of the easier stretching ones.

[kkg8r]

Thanks Leaf. I don't believe in the "starvation mode" theories or the "set point" theories - although admittedly, I am now at my semi-normal adult weight right now. Since I've had so much success and I don't really feel like I'm dieting (well, I do sometimes) I want to see if I can get down another 10 for bathing suit season :)

I definitely saw that overnight thing happen after the first 10 pounds came off. And a few times after that. It does seem to just happen overnight.

I'll stick with it and see how it goes. But yea, I was thinking of adding in a workout or two. Maybe lifting some weights. There are some crazy arm balances that I want to master in my yoga classes. So maybe weights will help there too.

[Dreamliner]

kk, how do you know you have ten pounds to lose ? Have you been that light before ?

[kkg8r]

Yes sir! :)

In fact, my pre-"freshman 15" weight at UF was 20 pounds lighter, which I think may prove to be very difficult to manage.

I am currently at my "pre30s no exercise drink beer weight." I'd like to get to my "pre30s exercise weight." If that makes sense.

I promise I'm not trying to be unrealistic.


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[your_perfect_enemy]

Hmm, sounds frustrating but plateaus do happen. Here is an article I read recently from Lyle McDonald about what it sounds like you are going through now.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html

That's a pretty interesting tidbit. Would sitting in a sauna or just sweating out have any effect on this? If you sweat off a few pounds of water weight stored in these fat cells, would you just gain it right back once you're fully hydrated or would they be less likely to draw back in more water?

[Dreamliner]

Yes sir! :)

In fact, my pre-"freshman 15" weight at UF was 20 pounds lighter, which I think may prove to be very difficult to manage.

I am currently at my "pre30s no exercise drink beer weight." I'd like to get to my "pre30s exercise weight." If that makes sense.

I promise I'm not trying to be unrealistic.


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Just checking. I had a client who weighed just north of 110 and wanted to get down to around 100. That certainly raised my eyebrows ... until I learned that she had a very petite frame and had been an athlete of sorts.

In any case, you may not like my advice. If, in spite of your best efforts to date, you've stalled. You need to ... wait for it - eat less than you're eating now, to hell with the charts and calculators. To hell with calorie counting and measuring.

However, it may very well be the most sensible strategy to camp out a bit. Stay where you are in your eating. See what happens the next couple of weeks. If still no movement, make incremental reductions. Many report that a 'soft landing', by losing the last few pounds very gradually, is the least traumatic approach and the most sustainable.

Thoughts ?

[LeafUF]

That's a pretty interesting tidbit. Would sitting in a sauna or just sweating out have any effect on this? If you sweat off a few pounds of water weight stored in these fat cells, would you just gain it right back once you're fully hydrated or would they be less likely to draw back in more water?

I am not really sure but my understanding of it was that you are holding extra water and that would naturally release without having to be dehydrated. Admittedly though I have not really looked into this too much. I do like doing the sauna after my workouts, especially when its colder outside. But I have not noticed any significant changes to water weight whether I do it or not. I guess it couldn't hurt to try it if you have access to something like that.

[Dreamliner]

Bodybuilders typically 'water manipulate' in the final stages to achieve that 'shrink-wrapped' looked. I doubt that kk is anywhere near needing to do that. In fact, I can't think of anyone other than bodybuilders who need to do that. And Lyle McDonald is speaking to bodybuilders, among others.

FYI: I'm always either with visable abs or am within striking distance of visable abs. And I've never had to do anything fancy to lean out. Just cut calories.

[LeafUF]

Yes bodybuilders do that but the article isnt really talking about water manipulation in the way that they would go about it.

Fitness models and bodybuilders do crazy stuff to get ready for contests or shoots in those final days to look as good as possible. And that includes drinking to further dehydrate. I have heard if you arent buzzed you probably arent ready.

The article was more about why sometimes even on a calorie deficit you dont see consistent weight loss and how it sometimes seems to fall off in chunks.

[Dreamliner]

Two more thoughts:

One, I no longer encourage my clients to count calories simply because everyone sucks at it. A recent study showed ten REGISTERED DIETICIANS underestimated their daily intake to the tune of 223 calories.

Two, your metabolism slows for THREE reasons as you lose weight. (1) obviously because you're getting smaller (2) it becomes more efficient and (3) perhaps surprisingly, people tend to burn fewer calories via non-exercise related activity in the latter stages of weight loss.

(2) and (3) could be part-and-parcel of a sort of survival mechanism. In any case, a pedometer will insure the requisite non-exercise related energy expenditure.

[Dreamliner]

Yes bodybuilders do that but the article isnt really talking about water manipulation in the way that they would go about it.

Fitness models and bodybuilders do crazy stuff to get ready for contests or shoots in those final days to look as good as possible. And that includes drinking to further dehydrate. I have heard if you arent buzzed you probably arent ready.

The article was more about why sometimes even on a calorie deficit you dont see consistent weight loss and how it sometimes seems to fall off in chunks.

Yes, it can appear to come off in fits and starts. Stuff like this falls in the category of "How do you know when a calorie is 'in you' and when it's 'out of you'."At the same time, I now take for granted that people underestimate the requirements of sustained weight loss.

[kkg8r]

Just checking. I had a client who weighed just north of 110 and wanted to get down to around 100. That certainly raised my eyebrows ... until I learned that she had a very petite frame and had been an athlete of sorts.

In any case, you may not like my advice. If, in spite of your best efforts to date, you've stalled. You need to ... wait for it - eat less than you're eating now, to hell with the charts and calculators. To hell with calorie counting and measuring.

However, it may very well be the most sensible strategy to camp out a bit. Stay where you are in your eating. See what happens the next couple of weeks. If still no movement, make incremental reductions. Many report that a 'soft landing', by losing the last few pounds very gradually, is the least traumatic approach and the most sustainable.

Thoughts ?

So you have no qualms about me eating in the 700-800 calorie range? I am just worried about everything I read about very low calorie diets and the proclivity to gain back the weight once you start eating at normal levels.

I will camp out and see how it goes. If need be, I'll go down in calories and see why happens. I took a 4 day break last week for a friends wedding. And it didn't do much damage - and I am possibly going back down again.

Thank you all for the advice!

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[LeafUF]

So you have no qualms about me eating in the 700-800 calorie range? I am just worried about everything I read about very low calorie diets and the proclivity to gain back the weight once you start eating at normal levels.

I will camp out and see how it goes. If need be, I'll go down in calories and see why happens. I took a 4 day break last week for a friends wedding. And it didn't do much damage - and I am possibly going back down again.

Thank you all for the advice!

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Is 700 or 800 really all that low for you? I mean if your bmr is just 1330 as you say then going that low would only be about a 500 calorie deficit before working out. And even if your activity got you to say 1800 that's still a deficit of 1000 which is something you would see recommended.

As a matter of fact from the rest of the book that I linked an excerpt to earlier it is recommended to go that low for a short time.

[Dreamliner]

So you have no qualms about me eating in the 700-800 calorie range? I am just worried about everything I read about very low calorie diets and the proclivity to gain back the weight once you start eating at normal levels.

I will camp out and see how it goes. If need be, I'll go down in calories and see why happens. I took a 4 day break last week for a friends wedding. And it didn't do much damage - and I am possibly going back down again.

Thank you all for the advice!

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Thanks for the opportunity to clarify. For what it's worth, I would never recommend a 700-800 calorie diet for anyone. Not because I believe it's unhealthy for short duration. It may be the healthiest thing we could do for short duration. It's just that I don't know anyone who would need to go that low to lose the weight they wanted to lose.

It's difficult for me to understand how you could not lose the weight you want to lose on 1,000 to 1,100 calories. You can't be that small a person. I see you're getting some exercise. But even people who exercise burn 70-80% of their calories through general activity. And as I pointed out, THAT'S the category that tends to suffer during the latter stages of weight loss.

It would be interesting to find out how you're doing were you to strap on a pedometer.

[Dreamliner]

Couple of ideas for a less radical approach to going as low as you need to go. Call it calorie cycling:

(1) Eat like you're eating on your more active days. Shave calories off your less active days.

(2) Eat like you're eating but insert one dinner-to-dinner fast per week. Move to two if necessary.

It might help to think in terms of weekly calorie consumption. Seems like either approach would be more palatable than going really low every damn day.

[kkg8r]

Thanks to both of you. I think I have a pedometer somewhere. I live in NYC so I walk quite a bit. As well as climb up and down subway stairs. I just put on a pair of jeans and they fit better than before. So maybe things are going in the right direction, but the scale isn't moving so much.

Dream, I actually do try to hit a weekly calorie goal because I do tend to be hungrier some days. I have not tried fasting dinner to dinner. Not sure I could do that. :) But it sounds just crazy enough to work.

[Dreamliner]

Thanks to both of you. I think I have a pedometer somewhere. I live in NYC so I walk quite a bit. As well as climb up and down subway stairs. I just put on a pair of jeans and they fit better than before. So maybe things are going in the right direction, but the scale isn't moving so much.

Dream, I actually do try to hit a weekly calorie goal because I do tend to be hungrier some days. I have not tried fasting dinner to dinner. Not sure I could do that. :) But it sounds just crazy enough to work.

Hey, you live in NYC. That tells me you're crazy enough to try anything. :wink:

A dinner-to-dinner fast seems more doable when you consider that you get to sleep through one-third of the fast AND you get to eat both days!

[LeafUF]

Don't worry about the scale so much especially if you are looking good and clothes fit better. You might just be getting some yoga muscles!!!

I would stay away from the googamooga though. I'm going on a diet in preparation for the amount of food I plan to eat there next month. If you haven't heard of it look it up I can't wait.

[kkg8r]

Just checked out Googa Mooga. Wow. I hope you got free passes otherwise, paying $250 would drive me to make sure I got my money's worth while I was there. They'd have to carry me out of there. The only question would be: food coma or passed out drunk?

[LeafUF]

Haha yeah I got free passes. My flight out is Monday morning so I have to get my hangover out of the way on Sunday night. If all goes well I will be drunk and full and passed out early.