Are you fatter than you think?

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Interesting read on some of the things Dream's been kind of hitting at the last few days. I can see how a lot of this stuff could be concerning. Worth a look if you've got five minutes.

Link: Are most people in denial about their weight? (http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/are-most-people-in-denial-about-their-weight/?hp)

[LeafUF]

Decent article and I know I have seen it first hand. The part at the end about seeming normal by comparison to other overweight people in particular is what I have noticed. And that is not even getting into some of the outfits I see people wearing that are not one bit body appropriate.

This all makes total sense. People overestimate how active they are and underestimate how much they eat so it only makes sense that they would come to the conclusion that they are not nearly as overweight as they really are.

[Dreamliner]

Thomas -

That was a fascinating article. I think it's absolutely the case that Americans in particular are fatter than they think. It may have to do with the way we're wired. But I'm inclined to attribute some of it to the mere fact that, in America, fat is the new normal.

Seriously, there is very little incentive to lose weight in America because even if you're overweight, you're bound to know people who are heavier than you are. And no matter how fat you get there's always My 600-Pound Life on TV to make you feel better about your shape.

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Dream, I gotta admit you've at least made me think twice about a few things in the last couple days.

I got drunk the other day and had a few snacks late at night. Looked at the calories the next day and I had eaten about 1,500 calories before I went to bed. So yeah, I'm gonna start watching my diet a little more closely. :laugh:

[Dreamliner]

Dream, I gotta admit you've at least made me think twice about a few things in the last couple days.

I got drunk the other day and had a few snacks late at night. Looked at the calories the next day and I had eaten about 1,500 calories before I went to bed. So yeah, I'm gonna start watching my diet a little more closely. :laugh:

Thomas, this website is for you:

http://getdrunknotfat.com

[LeafUF]

Alcohol by itself is not very bad. But drunk munchies can add up on you really quick.

[ThomasGoldkamp]

I've switched over to liquor more after drinking nothing but beer the past three years or so. Not sure if that'll mean much of a difference in calories.

[LeafUF]

I've switched to mostly vodka or good beers. I figure I get drunk on fewer calories this way.

[Dreamliner]

It's true that on a per-ounce basis most liquor doesn't contain a lot of calories. But allow me to relate this little anecdote:

A client of mine invited my wife and myself to a reception recently. He announced that he was "being good" because all he was having was wine and hors d'oeuvres.

As I was not there to monitor him that night - he's a big boy - I estimated that he had 500 calories of wine, never mind the munchies. That was two large glasses, amounting to two servings each, and later a small complimentary cup, accounting for another serving.

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Well for me, it's really simple calories-wise. I can drink beer all day and be fine. It'll take me six beers to start to feel a buzz. I can make a 50-50 Jack and Coke or Crown and Coke in a scotch glass and be buzzed.

For whatever reason, my system just reacts completely differently to liquor than beer.

[Dreamliner]

Well for me, it's really simple calories-wise. I can drink beer all day and be fine. It'll take me six beers to start to feel a buzz. I can make a 50-50 Jack and Coke or Crown and Coke in a scotch glass and be buzzed.

For whatever reason, my system just reacts completely differently to liquor than beer.

How interesting. I need to find me a concoction I can have six of without getting drunk. I know it's out there.

[LeafUF]

Miller lite

[chrisleakfan4life]

Whenever i get drunk i eat way too much food


Alcohol= Diet Killer

[toon66]

I've switched over to liquor more after drinking nothing but beer the past three years or so. Not sure if that'll mean much of a difference in calories.

I did that, too, and the only thing it meant was I got completely overserved.

I don't mix with Coke anymore. Generally I go with a high premium rum or bourbon on the rocks with splash of club soda. I can't really drink vodka.

[Colorado_Gator]

Oddly enough, alcohol is one of my diet secrets. If I have a nightcap either neat or with diet coke I don't snack at all. Not sure why, but it works.

[Dreamliner]

Oddly enough, alcohol is one of my diet secrets. If I have a nightcap either neat or with diet coke I don't snack at all. Not sure why, but it works.

Some argue that alcohol has a higher thermic effect than most foods, whatever that's worth.

[Colorado_Gator]

Interesting. In all reality it's likely just psychological with me. It tastes like a "treat" and I have something to sip that I enjoy so I don't attempt to fill the "treat" desire with popcorn or something.

[Dreamliner]

Interesting. In all reality it's likely just psychological with me. It tastes like a "treat" and I have something to sip that I enjoy so I don't attempt to fill the "treat" desire with popcorn or something.

You're probably right. Alcohol and coffee are liquids that, in a pinch, can suffice for a meal for me. Coffee is my breakfast these days. And if I'm trying to lose a few, wine is dessert.

[ThomasGoldkamp]

I did that, too, and the only thing it meant was I got completely overserved.

I don't mix with Coke anymore. Generally I go with a high premium rum or bourbon on the rocks with splash of club soda. I can't really drink vodka.

I typically don't drink liquor when I go out, try to stick to beer at bars.

But if I'm kicking back and having a drink or two at home, I'm more likely to go with liquor now than I used to.

[holloffamer]

It's psychological for me as well. Or sometimes, I feel like I'm overreacting over my weight too.

[Zendra]

Lite beer is a huge blessing. :)

[LeafUF]

Lite beer is a huge blessing. :)

I'd rather have 2 strong beers than 6 lite beers in most situations.

[StrangeGator]

I get zero enjoyment from any beer less than about 160 calories. More specifically, I rarely drink anything that's less than 8% alcohol, but try to keep it to about 10-12 beers a week. If I drink more in given week, I pull back on my solid carb intake and do longer cardio sessions.

[ATL_Gator]

I quit drinking all together. Religious reasons aside, I felt it just wasn't "me". I have never been one to really crack open a beer and enjoy it by myself, I have always been a social drinker.

Back to the topic at hand.. I must be fatter than I thought/think... the last bit of fat I am trying to dump is being a complete pain in the butt!

/bleh

[StrangeGator]

I quit drinking all together. Religious reasons aside, I felt it just wasn't "me". I have never been one to really crack open a beer and enjoy it by myself, I have always been a social drinker.

Back to the topic at hand.. I must be fatter than I thought/think... the last bit of fat I am trying to dump is being a complete pain in the butt!

/bleh

The last bit is always the hardest to get rid of. I wanted to get another seven or eight pounds off, or get my body composition in the 12% range, but haven't had any success. I cut out alcohol all together for the month of March. I actually gained five pounds!

[Dreamliner]

It might help you guys to remember that three things slow down when you lose weight:

(1) Resting Energy Expenditure because your body gets smaller, less tissue to maintenance.

(2) Resting Energy Expenditure because it does indeed slow as function of survival mechanism.

(3) Perhaps most surprisingly, non-exercise related energy expenditure slows.

Bottom line: you have to find a way to burn more calories either through calorie reduction (yes, you may need to go even lower), more activity (wear a pedometer if need be) or both.

[Dreamliner]

Bottom-line: don't let anyone fool you (or dissuade you), a calorie deficit WILL WORK all the way to the bitter end (wherever that is).

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Yup, I've cut my body fat percentage from 15% to right around 10% in a few weeks by cutting down on calories. Have also switched my workouts more toward high rep, lower weight stuff.

Seems to be working. Abs are back and I've dropped roughly five pounds.

[Dreamliner]

There you go! Tried and true works every time. It's just that most people don't stick with it long enough.

[ThomasGoldkamp]

There you go! Tried and true works every time. It's just that most people don't stick with it long enough.

Well, I suppose I fit the "most people" category to a T. I'll do well for a month or two (not drinking much lately) and then I'll get into the "go out" mode where I drink a couple nights a week. That's when I tend to slip off again. :laugh:

[ATL_Gator]

Bottom-line: don't let anyone fool you (or dissuade you), a calorie deficit WILL WORK all the way to the bitter end (wherever that is).

You know me, math is math. Calorie deficit must work. And it has been. (regardless of the food choices... of which I can be a poster child for this notion)

I was more addressing the "last bit" in terms of my look and what I thought I needed to get to in order to remove the "last bit". This is speaking strictly in terms of fat loss.

At 205 (average weight for a long time) - 215 (weight as of Jan 2012, I ate a lot in November and December), and upper teens of BFP (which puts lean mass in the mid 160's range), I figured a total weight of upper 180's would net me a fairly "low fat" look with some muscle definition, but not ultra vascular (i.e. P90X after pics that they "advertise"). This is assuming that lean mass stays constant.

I am currently at 193.5 (wearing a dry-fit shirt, basketball shorts, drawers, socks). I am roughly 5 lb from my "target" weight wise. I would say that I am close, but not what I imagined. I am most definately slimmer than I was before, and I can see some definition in my abdomen, but I don't see that 5 more lb is going to get me my target look. So, lean mass must have went down. Not all that surprising though, I was under a calorie deficit and didn't do much working out/lifting for a good 6-8 weeks, easy.

Bleh, anyway, the quest continues.

[Dreamliner]

See what happens if you stay where you are and ramp up the strength training a bit.

[StrangeGator]

I'll have better luck on the expenditure side, but it's a struggle. I'm lifting three days a week with a cardio session at the end, doing one HIIT workout a week, then I have two nights of Aikido, hour and a half on Tuesday, then two hour long classes back-to-back on Friday nights. I only rest my body one day a week and I'm sore all the time, mainly my legs, glutes and lower back.

Like Thomas, I've switched to a lower weight, higher rep weight routine, though I still do a high weight routine every other week. I'm thinking I might go ahead and do a light cardio session early on the mornings when I go to Aikido at night.

Kind of stubborn on the calorie cutting side. It's a real struggle when I'm working from home. The other challenge is that I have to shop and cook for all four of us, and it's hard to do what you need to do for yourself when you're trying to satisfy everyone else's needs. Both kids are headed to college in September, so that part will get a lot easier. That will also give me more time to devote to fitness stuff, especially Aikido. Will start attending Thursday night classes, one hour of body art and one hour of weapons, at a sister dojo 15 miles west of us.

For the moment, I'm stuck at about 185-190, 14-16% body fat. I'd like to get to the high 170s and see how that feels.

[ATL_Gator]

You work WAY more than I do. I lift lightly 4 days a week (about 10 reps total, but 1 of 4 strategies each day), and play basketball for cardio 2 days a week. That's it.

Since the beginning of March, I have been in a weight loss competition, of which I am currently winning (7.8% lost). It is purely what the scale reads, nothing more. If I win, it gets me ~$200. :) I will push that as far as I can to see what happens, but ultimately, I am a tad too light. I would like a bit more muscle when all is said and done.

[Dreamliner]

Calorie deficit = weight loss.

Sorry to remind. :wink:

The good news is that as much as you guys work out you don't need to go as low as someone who doesn't.

[Dreamliner]

I'll have better luck on the expenditure side, but it's a struggle. I'm lifting three days a week with a cardio session at the end, doing one HIIT workout a week, then I have two nights of Aikido, hour and a half on Tuesday, then two hour long classes back-to-back on Friday nights. I only rest my body one day a week and I'm sore all the time, mainly my legs, glutes and lower back.

Like Thomas, I've switched to a lower weight, higher rep weight routine, though I still do a high weight routine every other week. I'm thinking I might go ahead and do a light cardio session early on the mornings when I go to Aikido at night.

Kind of stubborn on the calorie cutting side. It's a real struggle when I'm working from home. The other challenge is that I have to shop and cook for all four of us, and it's hard to do what you need to do for yourself when you're trying to satisfy everyone else's needs. Both kids are headed to college in September, so that part will get a lot easier. That will also give me more time to devote to fitness stuff, especially Aikido. Will start attending Thursday night classes, one hour of body art and one hour of weapons, at a sister dojo 15 miles west of us.

For the moment, I'm stuck at about 185-190, 14-16% body fat. I'd like to get to the high 170s and see how that feels.

Strange, I can't do anything about your martial arts schedule. But as to your conditioning, remember that fatigue masks fitness. If you're tired and sore all the time then reducing on the conditioning side may have you feeling and performing better.

[oI2ange]

Strange, is there a lot of sparring in your Akido sessions? If not, you should consider moving to BJJ or something- BJJ sparring was the most intense workout I've ever done in my life. Your lbs will drop very quickly if you spar a few times a week.

[StrangeGator]

Strange, is there a lot of sparring in your Akido sessions? If not, you should consider moving to BJJ or something- BJJ sparring was the most intense workout I've ever done in my life. Your lbs will drop very quickly if you spar a few times a week.

Not remotely interested in BJJ for a lot of reasons. In fact, the only reason I started working out was to be in better shape for Aikido I don't like ground fighting. (nor do I like punching or kicking.) I think MMA is a cancer on our culture, and even if I was interested, they don't have any BJJ gyms around here (I refuse to call them dojos). I am committed to Aikido for life. It is Budo for me. Fitness is important right now and it will remain important as long as it supports what I'm doing In Aikido. I stayed away from lifting for five years just so my upper body would become more relaxed and supple for Aikido.

I don't know if what we do is considered sparring compared to BJJ, but it is a rigorous, anaerobic activity. Most of the time we go up against Uke, we know what's coming, but he/she still presents a committed attack and will remain committed to fighting back, but it's not a "match." The only true sparring we do is "Randori" when we go up against multiple attackers at once. That's the most anaerobic thing you'll ever do in martial arts. They keep coming until sensei claps.

[oI2ange]

gotcha...that's cool. i'll probably go back to bjj one day, but not right now. i found it super super fun.

[StrangeGator]

The one good thing about BJJ is how much fun people have doing it and how many have come into the fitness world for that reason. When I see people do it in video clips, it looks just like Judo. My biggest problem with it is the connection to MMA but I also have issues with the lack of discipline and etiquette.

90% of Aikido is done standing, or on your knees (suwariwaza). Most techniques end with a pin or a throw, so we stay on our feet almost to the end. A few pins can be done from a standing position.

Aikido is built around elegant footwork, with diagonal and circular movement away from the line of attack. The footwork is entirely based on Kenjutsu as it was passed down from the Samurai. The idea is to get move the attacker from his center and take his balance, even if he/she has his/her hands on you. But you never go to the ground until you are in position for a pin. When you get there, it's over. The pins are built around very painful joint locks. Most are illegal in wrestling and MMA, even though they don't cause injury.

We have a few advanced people who also have backgrounds in Judo or Jujutsu and they will occasionally counter an Aikido pin with a ground fighting move, but it's only done when you leave some kind of opening in your pin and mostly to other Judoka. My sensei is Godan (5th Dan) in Aikido, but Ryukudan (6th Dan) in Danzan Ryu Jujutsu. I'm very careful not to leave openings when I pin him.

A typical night at the dojo might involve pairing up with a partner, throwing him four times and him/her throwing you four times, back and forth for five to ten minutes at a time. You get gassed throwing, because you put all your body into it. You get gassed even more getting thrown, because you either roll or take a hard break fall, and then you have to get back up. By the end of class, the most strenuous thing your are doing is lifting yourself off the mat. I've done it over 100 times in a single class. On my birthday, Sensei through me 54 times in just over 10 minutes.

[StrangeGator]

Strange, I can't do anything about your martial arts schedule. But as to your conditioning, remember that fatigue masks fitness. If you're tired and sore all the time then reducing on the conditioning side may have you feeling and performing better.

I think I might need to ease off on the intensity of my workouts and increase the duration of my cardio circuits. Haven't lifted since Monday. Went to the dojo Tuesday night and I'm still a little sore in my hips, glutes and quads. Might just focus on upper body and abs today.

Got Sox tickets for my son and I tomorrow night, so I'll be skipping Aikido. Hopefully I'll be rested enough on Saturday to do a heavy lifting session. It's often hard to get a good squat or dead lift workout the day after Aikido because my back is so sore. I don't even go that heavy.

[Dreamliner]

I think I might need to ease off on the intensity of my workouts and increase the duration of my cardio circuits. Haven't lifted since Monday. Went to the dojo Tuesday night and I'm still a little sore in my hips, glutes and quads. Might just focus on upper body and abs today.

Got Sox tickets for my son and I tomorrow night, so I'll be skipping Aikido. Hopefully I'll be rested enough on Saturday to do a heavy lifting session. It's often hard to get a good squat or dead lift workout the day after Aikido because my back is so sore. I don't even go that heavy.

Increasing duration of cardio is an option so long as you decrease intensity.

But bear in mind that, for many, cardio increases hunger. Hunger = more calories consumed.

I'd like to think that you can find a sweet spot for your training.

[StrangeGator]

Increasing duration of cardio is an option so long as you decrease intensity.

But bear in mind that, for many, cardio increases hunger. Hunger = more calories consumed.

I'd like to think that you can find a sweet spot for your training.

You're probably right. You helped me when I had the time management issues and I got everything compressed into three workout days and had several months of success. Now I have a surplus of time and a gym right up the street, plus some new goals to work with. After I work through this plateau, I think I'll work the nutrition side of the equation.

[ATL_Gator]

You know me, math is math. Calorie deficit must work. And it has been. (regardless of the food choices... of which I can be a poster child for this notion)

I am currently at 193.5 (wearing a dry-fit shirt, basketball shorts, drawers, socks).

Just pulling a post from before. Weighed in today, after a Memorial Day weekend vacation to Pigeon Forge, TN and my son's end of season party last night.

191.25 :joecool:

Not only did weight go down, but here is the list of stuff over the long weekend and last night.

Friday: 1 chocolate and sprinkle donut, Cracker Barrel (Steak salad with a ranch based dressing), Restaurant BBQ (ribs, pulled pork, chicken, slaw, beans)

Saturday: 2 glazed donuts, Catfish Restaurant (grilled trout, navy beans, slaw, mashed potatoes, 1 hush puppy), family cookout (2 decent sized rib-eyes, corn, beans)

Sunday, which was by far the worst: family breakfast (3 egg omlette with bacon, sausage, steak, onion, green pepper, spinach, cheese... plus nibbling sausage, steak and bacon while I cooked), Brick oven pizza joint (covered about 2/3 of a 14" pepperoni pie), another BBQ restaurant (ribs, pulled pork, chicken, beans, slaw, and 1/2 of my son's burger). Chased with a Dr. Pepper and ice cream when we got back to the cabin.

Monday: behaved.

Tuesday: behaved until dinner time. 4 large slices of pepperoni pizza (slightly more than 1/2 of a pie) and a decent slice of cake.

-----

Effective calorie management over the other 7 days plus a BUNCH of activity... for the win.

[Dreamliner]

That's getting it done Dreamliner style! I always do better on junk food. I polished off two, count 'em: TWO double-decker PB&J sammiches yesterday.