Coach K vs. Billy Donovan [Archive] - GatorCountry.com Swamp Gas Forums

Ohio_Gator

11-02-2011, 11:37 AM

Singaporegator

11-02-2011, 11:40 AM

That is a very interesting comparison. Thanks for putting it together. I would be quite happy to have Billy D coach the gators for another 20 years:-)

ovillegator

11-02-2011, 11:43 AM

Yes, amazing and wonderful to witness what Billy has done to Gator basketball... something I NEVER would have imagined at my beloved University of Florida.

A football AND basketball school. Thanks, Billy!

CDog

11-02-2011, 01:15 PM

I remember when we won our first national title and the announcers were referring to the youngest coaches to play in the Final Four and win the tournament as a coach, and they marveled that Billy was joining Dean Smith and Bob Knight.

Lord I loved that game. One of the happiest moments of my sports spectator life.

bposs

11-02-2011, 01:34 PM

Love our coach, hopefully this year the crowds will come out to support the team. I plan on making a couple games. I have good feeling about this team!

PSGator66

11-02-2011, 01:38 PM

As I have said before - Donovan is the best coach in Gator history in all sports.

qwghlmgator

11-02-2011, 01:52 PM

Is it OK if we consider Billy to have 3.5 Final Fours? I'm still pissed about last year. :(

jagervol01

11-02-2011, 03:14 PM

Just for fun....

Coach K (at age 46) right after 1992-1993 season

394 victories, 177 losses (.690)
2 National Championships
5 Final Fours
10 NCAA Tourney Appearances

Billy D (at age 46) present day

395 victories, 167 losses (.702)
2 National Championships
3 Final Fours
11 NCAA Tourney Appearances
Only one small correction, following the '93 season Duke had made six final fours under Coach K ('86, '88-'92). Very comparable though.

REM08

11-02-2011, 03:45 PM

Believe it or not I actually don't mind Coach K. I just wish he had the balls Donovan does when it comes to playing road games. Advantage BD.

kellgator

11-02-2011, 04:10 PM

Only one small correction, following the '93 season Duke had made six final fours under Coach K ('86, '88-'92). Very comparable though.

There was a stretch of years from '86 to '92 where the team that won the national title either beat Duke on their way to the title or Duke won it all. Remarkable!

MJGator8104

11-02-2011, 04:31 PM

One inference from those stats is that BD is far more likely to win it all if he actually makes it to the final four...

GatorCrazy11

11-02-2011, 04:52 PM

Is it OK if we consider Billy to have 3.5 Final Fours? I'm still pissed about last year. :(

I, too, have not yet gotten over the travesty that was the 2nd half officiating in that game. Butler was getting to the Final Four no matter what, and it was painfully obvious.

REM08

11-02-2011, 04:57 PM

One inference from those stats is that BD is far more likely to win it all if he actually makes it to the final four...

Probably due to the fact that K's draws to the final four aren't quite as difficult as the average (even the average 1 seed).

GatorRade

11-02-2011, 05:08 PM

Coach K is obviously the gold standard for modern basketball coaches, so any time coach Donovan compares to K, it is an honor for him (and us).

It's unlikely that Donovan will ever catch coach K in any of those stats, but clearly he is the best bball coach in Florida history and now one of the best coaches in SEC history. We couldn't ask for more than that.

kpc

12-06-2012, 11:30 AM

i'm being lazy, but anyone have an update on these stats?

also, i like the point about where the teams started the tourney ranked...which would prove that billy has done more w/ less...

which i would think the recruiting rankings would have to point out, as well...

ApexNC

12-06-2012, 12:03 PM

Also add to the mix that K did it at Army and DUKE. Donovan has accomplished similar results at Marshall and Florida. Makes Coach Donovan even more impressive, IMO.

tommyuf21

12-06-2012, 12:10 PM

I've been looking to see where Billy ranks all time at this point. I'm sure he's quite far down the list, but it would be nice to see. I can't find a list on line with anything less than 600 wins.

gatorbogey

12-06-2012, 12:23 PM

one of those 'wow' comparisons!

gatormoe1

12-06-2012, 12:25 PM

Question is, how long does Billy stay?

TampaGatorFan

12-06-2012, 12:38 PM

Billy D and Coach K are the two best college hoops coaches in the nation right now, IMHO.

ufgators32

12-06-2012, 12:55 PM

If BD consistently wins 25 to 30 games per season for the next 20 yrs, he would easily pass Coach K. The question becomes will he still be coaching 20 yrs from now and will he stay in the college game or decide to bolt between now and then. Love him or hate him, what Coach K has done at Duke is remarkable. The fact that it would take Billy at least more 20 yrs of coaching at a high level to get close to Coach K says it all.

GatorRade

12-06-2012, 01:57 PM

Also add to the mix that K did it at Army and DUKE. Donovan has accomplished similar results at Marshall and Florida. Makes Coach Donovan even more impressive, IMO.

I'm not sure about this. If I am not mistaken, Duke wasn't really that good before he got there. Its before my time though, so can anyone speak to this?

jmac83

12-06-2012, 02:03 PM

I'm not sure about this. If I am not mistaken, Duke wasn't really that good before he got there. Its before my time though, so can anyone speak to this?

Duke made an NCAA final in the late 70s under Bill Foster, I believe, then quickly faded, ultimately leading to the K hiring.

phideltdj

12-06-2012, 02:20 PM

Yes that is true... 1978 Duke lost to Kentucky in the final. They had Mike Gminski, Gene Banks, and Spanarkel...Kentucy had Goose Givens and beat them. I think they struggled after that and then hired Coach K.

ufgator4ever

12-06-2012, 03:11 PM

Billy D and Coach K are the two best college hoops coaches in the nation right now, IMHO.

I'd add Izzo and that's clearly the trio of top coaches for last 15 years.

REM08

12-06-2012, 03:30 PM

I'd add Izzo and that's clearly the trio of top coaches for last 15 years.

Hard to argue there are any better, but not a chance that "clearly" is the case.

MoscowGtr

12-06-2012, 03:38 PM

I'm not sure about this. If I am not mistaken, Duke wasn't really that good before he got there. Its before my time though, so can anyone speak to this?

They were nothing like as good as they are now. On the other hand, neither were we. At all. Duke was at least an ACC team. We were a team from the conference that has Kentucky and some other teams that no one really talks about.

Actually, the other posters are wrong about Coach K's predecessor. After going to the final in 78, Duke also went past the first round in the NCAAs during the next two years. (I don't know why Foster left, but it was not because of his record.) It is true that when Coach K took over, they had a few rebuilding years (under Coach K) and did not make the tourney again until '84.

GreenGatorGuy6218

12-06-2012, 04:18 PM

One inference from those stats is that BD is far more likely to win it all if he actually makes it to the final four...

Maybe.

traubgator

12-06-2012, 04:31 PM

vbmatt

12-06-2012, 04:38 PM

[QUOTE=traubgator;6224102]this post should remain at the top. billy d is the greatest coach ever at the unversity.

QUOTE]

Mike Holloway has something to say about that...

TampaGatorFan

12-06-2012, 07:48 PM

I'd add Izzo and that's clearly the trio of top coaches for last 15 years.

Yup...I was thinking of Izzo when I posted that. He's right up there...and I really like his style, too.

themistocles

12-06-2012, 08:25 PM

There have always been several standout coaches in college BB.

It is really quite difficult to do any legitimate comparisons, but it is certainly hard to argue with John Wooden's Million National Championships at UCLA.

Of course, when he won those, the NCAA tournament involved 16 teams, so 4 wins got you a championship.

This is one of many reasons why it is amazingly difficult to make legitimate comparisons.

However, if you judge by recruiting prowess, then Billy D has got to be one of the best of all time, comparable to Mac Brown in football.

Prior to Billy D's tenure at Florida, the school had recruited a grand total of 3 MacDonald's All Americans during it's entire basketball history. He had beaten that by his 3rd year, with Dupay and Miller in year 2, followed by Nelson and Harvey in year 3.

Billy D is certainly one of the best coaches in the history of college basketball and he is so very player oriented and honorable while accomplishing such feats.

Hats off to Billy D.

Coach K is pretty outstanding also, and very honorable also. I have great respect for him, but, as was noted, Duke usually does manage to have a fairly easy path to the final 4, which may help explain why he has been there so many times.

trufloridagator

12-07-2012, 06:20 AM

Is it OK if we consider Billy to have 3.5 Final Fours? I'm still pissed about last year. :(

Almost as bad as the swindle. Still bitter. We would have probably won it all.

GatorRade

12-07-2012, 08:08 AM

Almost as bad as the swindle. Still bitter. We would have probably won it all.

I assume that you are not talking about last year where we would have faced at UK team that beat us three times already.

your_perfect_enemy

12-07-2012, 08:42 AM

I assume that you are not talking about last year where we would have faced at UK team that beat us three times already.

It was a year old post he was replying to, it was in reference to the Butler game.

your_perfect_enemy

12-07-2012, 08:42 AM

[QUOTE=traubgator;6224102]this post should remain at the top. billy d is the greatest coach ever at the unversity.

QUOTE]

Mike Holloway has something to say about that...

no he doesn't

GatorRade

12-07-2012, 09:21 AM

It was a year old post he was replying to, it was in reference to the Butler game.

Thanks. I was assuming it would have fit better with that year, but I didn't see the time stamp. I think we would have been very competitive in that final 4.

demosthenes

12-07-2012, 09:27 AM

EvenParGator

12-07-2012, 09:32 AM

Boeheim has got to be on the list of best coaches in the country.

Go2gtr

12-07-2012, 12:28 PM

Boeheim has got to be on the list of best coaches in the country.
Boeheim is all about longevity. With all those talented teams he has one NC. But he has lots of Big East championships when the Big East was THE power conference. He has three FF so that is a separator right there as well.

4everaGator

12-07-2012, 12:32 PM

I, too, have not yet gotten over the travesty that was the 2nd half officiating in that game. Butler was getting to the Final Four no matter what, and it was painfully obvious.

I thought we lost to Pitino and Louisville last year. Butler was 2 years ago.

ApexNC

12-07-2012, 12:46 PM

I'm not sure about this. If I am not mistaken, Duke wasn't really that good before he got there. Its before my time though, so can anyone speak to this?

Duke had a LOT more history and basketball tradition when K took over than than UF when Coach Donovan took over. I'm not saying Coach K wouldn't have accomplished as much at UF, but I think the relative state of the programs makes what Coach Donovan has done even more impressive.

patsyruth2008

12-07-2012, 01:09 PM

I think it is also important to point out that Coach Donovan has accomplished everything he has done at a "Football School". The other Coaches mentioned are at "Basketball Schools" where the emphasis, attention (and dollars) are poured into the hoops program. Billy has been able to co-exist with football better than any Coach I know of. The time frame of 2006-2008 at Florida is unprecidented in college sports.

steve6137

12-07-2012, 01:19 PM

I remember watching the Gators in Alligator Alley. It's hard to get my head around how far this program has come since those days.
We've been incredibly lucky to have coach Donovan build the program to one of the premier basketball programs in the country.
Truly amazing transformation!

bofusgators

12-07-2012, 01:24 PM

Both Billy and coach K are on a coaching par, but Billy will soon eclipse coach K. Billy is already the best the Gators have ever had.

GatorRade

12-07-2012, 02:53 PM

Both Billy and coach K are on a coaching par, but Billy will soon eclipse coach K. Billy is already the best the Gators have ever had.

I love Billy, but this would be pretty tough.

Coach K:
4 NCAA championships
11 final fours
12 ACC championships
13 ACC tournament championships
79 NCAA tournament victories
935 total victories

Billy D:
2 NCAA championships
3 final fours
4 SEC championships
3 SEC tournament championships
25 NCAA tournament victories
427 total victories

GataBaitx3

12-07-2012, 05:53 PM

jeffphillips21

12-07-2012, 05:55 PM

Is it OK if we consider Billy to have 3.5 Final Fours? I'm still pissed about last year. :(

and the year before

tilly

12-07-2012, 07:45 PM

Guys pay attention. This is a year old resurected thread from last season. Thus the references to the BUTLER game.

Now carry on ;)

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Gator Country

Singaporegator

12-07-2012, 09:52 PM

this post should remain at the top. billy d is the greatest coach ever at the unversity.

only place i ever see him leaving for would be unc or duke. unc will be all over him once roy gets canned for academic fraud.

Billy D is by far the greatest BB coach at UF and will be in the discussion for the GOAT. However, greatest coach ever (so far) at UF has to be Mary Wise. Won the SEC EVERY year for her 1st 15 years at UF, now 19 of 21 ( damn, she is slipping). In the history of NCAA basketball, football, baseball ( and of course volleyball) no one has a better winning percentage over at least 10 years than Wise at .902. That is total domination.

rserina

12-07-2012, 11:08 PM

More than the eventual success, the offensive scheme, the up and down pressing action, and all the other features he brought to the program, what still strikes me is his early recruiting. Facilities were not that good, the SEC was a second-tier hoops conference being dominated by Pitino's UK teams, we were a football school at its mid-90s peek, and he was a 30-year old kid fresh off two seasons at Marshall of all places, yet Donovan was able to step in and in his second full class pull off Mike Miller in addition to Dupay, Haslem, and Halton, then turn right around and sign Nelson, Harvey, Bonner, and Hamilton. At the time, it didn't dawn on me how extraordinary that feat was.

InstiGATOR1

12-07-2012, 11:18 PM

Duke had a LOT more history and basketball tradition when K took over than than UF when Coach Donovan took over. I'm not saying Coach K wouldn't have accomplished as much at UF, but I think the relative state of the programs makes what Coach Donovan has done even more impressive.

Duke was in the final four just a few years prior to Krzyzewski and was in the final four several times in the 1960s and had several national players of the year. Duke was done prior to Bill Foster going there.

BTW, it was a near thing for Krzyzewski succeeding at Duke his first three years were 17-13 NIT, 10-17 and 11-17. Bill Foster's last three years at Duke were 27-7 NCAA runner up, 22-8 NCAA second round and 24-9 NCAA regional final. As you can imagine going from Foster's last three years to Krzyzewski's first three year cause much doubt among the Duke basketball family.

demosthenes

12-08-2012, 09:53 AM

UFLAW81

12-08-2012, 10:09 AM

As I have said before - Donovan is the best coach in Gator history in all sports.

Don't forget Buster Bishop!!!!!!

rserina

12-08-2012, 12:05 PM

Weren't Donovan and WWW friends/acquaintance s back then?
Never heard that. There was some chatter about runner who organized a trip for Miller, Bonner, and some others, but it was unrelated to Donovan.

NorthCaptivaGator

12-08-2012, 12:32 PM

Stat from FSU game: most consecutive 20 win seasons Billy was second with 14 BUT as they pointed out, he has only been here 16, pretty amazing consistency

tupacbiff

12-08-2012, 02:31 PM

Biggest diff between coach k and billy?

Billy doesn't disparage recruits like k.

madgator

12-08-2012, 02:42 PM

unfortunate but true.....Billy should have 2 more final fours on his resume

tampajack1

12-08-2012, 04:51 PM

I believe that Duke was a top-20 program before Coach Krysz$#ewski. The Gator basketball team under Tommy Bartlett in the late-60's and early-70's was actually pretty good and had great top-spin serves.

InstiGATOR1

12-14-2012, 09:24 PM

Andy Glockner of SI mentioned on the CBS podcast I linked in the podcast thread that he wrote this column on "Catching Coach K" and here it is:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/news/20121213/catching-coach-k/?sct=uk_t11_a5

here is some of the Donovan discussion:

Billy Donovan, Florida

A profile similar to Self's, Donovan started as a head coach in 1994-95, spending two seasons at Marshall before heading to Gainesville. He currently has 428 career wins. He's only 47 years old, but is also at a program with a slightly lower annual wins trajectory.

Florida has averaged 25 wins a season over the past five years and only has two seasons with 30 or more wins -- the back-to-back national title years in 2006 and '07. Even if you bump up expectations a bit and give Donovan an average of 27 wins a year over the long run, he would need to coach for 24 more seasons to broach Krzyzewski's assumed end total.

Donovan already had his NBA flirtation, famously changing his mind on a deal with the Orlando Magic, so his NBA flight risk is likely lower than Self's. Donovan always has been a grinder, so the thought of coaching past 70 isn't crazy, but that's a pretty big ask to win at that level for another almost quarter-century, unless he moves up half a step to a truly top-five job at some point.

NorthCaptivaGator

12-16-2012, 10:31 PM

REM08

12-17-2012, 11:19 AM

F them, "a truly top 5 job". Where could he win more than at Florida - no where

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think its safe to say Billy could be at schools that are easier places to win.

NorthCaptivaGator

12-17-2012, 11:45 AM

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think its safe to say Billy could be at schools that are easier places to win.

Where? and Why?

REM08

12-17-2012, 12:34 PM

Where? and Why?

I'm not trying to bash Florida, but there are schools with better facilities and (basketball) fan bases. You know, hence the numerous articles praising Billy as a recruiter by saying something like "and he's doing this at a football school" or "think of what he could do at a traditional power" or whatever.

I'm not trying to suggest that the chasm is a mile wide between programs, but its significant. This matters less in basketball than in football, but it still matters. There are places Billy could recruit to easier than where he is. There's no denying this.

demosthenes

12-17-2012, 12:39 PM

You are correct. The list isn't long but UK, Duke, UNC, IU, and KU would be on the list.

NorthCaptivaGator

12-17-2012, 03:19 PM

I'm not trying to bash Florida, but there are schools with better facilities and (basketball) fan bases. You know, hence the numerous articles praising Billy as a recruiter by saying something like "and he's doing this at a football school" or "think of what he could do at a traditional power" or whatever.

I'm not trying to suggest that the chasm is a mile wide between programs, but its significant. This matters less in basketball than in football, but it still matters. There are places Billy could recruit to easier than where he is. There's no denying this.

He is already pulling top 5 classes, better classes than most other schools, how much better could it get? Especially if he were to continue his balance between 4 year guys and potential one and dones like he has

REM08

12-17-2012, 03:36 PM

He is already pulling top 5 classes, better classes than most other schools, how much better could it get? Especially if he were to continue his balance between 4 year guys and potential one and dones like he has

Easy answer. It'd get better. Calipari was a successful recruiter at Memphis. Joker Phillips didn't recruit that well (by big program standards) while at UK. Think he'll pull in better players at Florida? Again, the chasm isn't as wide as UK/UF football, but its there.

What you're telling me is that the rich successful guy in your (hypothetically) small town is already filthy rich and things couldn't possibly get any better for him were he to move into a bigger market. Don't get me wrong, coaches are what matter most in recruiting, but the programs matter as well. Many of these recruits develop great relationships with the coaches recruiting them and love the idea of playing for more than just one of them. You'll see many recruits talk about the hardest part of picking a school is having to tell the other coaches they're going elsewhere. When things are close, in the opinion of a recruit, coaching wise, other factors play a role as well.

Just like there are built in advantages Billy has in recruiting players to Florida when compared with other schools, there are a few (agree with the above post about that) that have it better.

betazetagator

12-18-2012, 11:47 AM

That is a very interesting comparison. Thanks for putting it together. I would be quite happy to have Billy D coach the gators for another 20 years:-)

Yeah, thanks Ohio. I live in the middle of ACC Country and Coach K and Duke are the one that everyone either Loves or Hates. I like Coach K and seeing that Billy is right there, this Gator is really proud of coach D. Go Gators----:yes: