Here's my routine. What am I accomplishing?

[StrangeGator]

My workout routine originated from very specific advice I got from people on this site, from my trainer and from websites. It has evolved quite a bit, partly because I've gotten lackadaisical and habitual, but mostly because I don't know what I want to accomplish now. FWIW, I'm 53, 6' tall, weigh 185 pounds. Not sure what my body composition is, but I have a 33 inch waist, probably 14-15%.

I lift four times a week, two days of back/chest/legs and two days of shoulders and arms. I do core work on all four days. I do a 25-40 minute cardio circuit after I lift, using three or four different machines.

I also do at least one day of interval work, mostly Tabattas. My typical circuit is about 50 minutes. I have about 20 exercises that I rotate through over a three week period.

I go to the dojo (Aikido) three times a week, an hour to hour and a half for each session. This is mostly aerobic, but demands lot of explosiveness from the core and legs.

Per advice from this board, I do five sets of descending reps/increasing weight for large muscle groups. For smaller muscle groups, I do three or four sets in the 6-8 rep range. I do mostly heavy days, but lately I've been doing light days about every other week, three sets of 12-15 reps for everything. My current bench max is 255. My squat max is only 225, mainly because of a lingering knee injury. I've only recently started doing dead lifts. Had a couple of lower back injuries and that exercise just scares the crap out of me. My little brother has encouraged me to put some emphasis on that, so I'm working it into my routine.

First question; What am I accomplishing? I honestly don't know what I want to accomplish, but I like this routine. I might rather fine tune it to better meet whatever objectives I'm unconsciously working on.

What would I do if I wanted to cut? My calorie intake is based on calorie counting from about a year ago, and my goal was 1600 calories a day. Realistically, I'm probably closer to 1900 calories a day. There's probably enough on this board about the diet part of this, so I'm more interested in the exercise part of the equation.

What would I do if I wanted to bulk up? I know this involves some form of higher rep, lower weights, but how much?

What would I do if I just wanted to kill it in the dojo? My brother logged a lot of dojo time in the early part of his special ops career. His weight routine back then was dead lift, squats and bench. They told him that lifting with the arms impacted hand speed. I wouldn't take it that far, but I wouldn't mind getting a bit more explosive on the mat.

What would I do if I just wanted to save time? I'm at the gym five times a week for up to 1:45.

Thanks.

[Dreamliner]

Strange -

As you've already lost a significant amount of weight (something to be really proud of), I suspect that was due primarily to sustained calorie deficit and only secondarily due to your exercise program.

Undoubtedly, your program has enabled you to become stronger and the cardio has likely served to increase work capacity. My MAJOR point would be that you won the harder battle, the eating side of the equation. THAT, more than anything else, served to transform your body.

But what is your existing routine doing for you now ? Well, if you enjoy it ... it serves its purpose in that regard. But since you're asking, I don't think you actually need to do half what you're currently doing to maintain/increase strength and work capacity. In point of fact, if we learned anything from the Tabata studies we learned that 12 fricking minutes a week confers greater aerobic benefits than FIVE HOURS A WEEK of conventional aerobics.

Whether you want to gain or lose weight, IMO, rep count doesn't matter as much as we've been led to believe. But diet is the key to 'cutting' and mechanical stress, i.e., hard lifting is key to muscle growth. Now, if sheer weight gain is what you're after, just establish a calorie surplus. I put the 'ecto' in ectomorph but even I can gain two or three pounds a week just adding in peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. But I don't kid myself into thinking that that's adding a significant amount of muscle. Maybe just a little, along with the fat.

Back to your routine, I'm a BIG proponent of hacking your program. There are almost always redundant movements that can be eliminated. I myself rarely do anything more complicated than a push, a pull and a deadlift or squatting movement per workout. And whereas I'm indifferent about 'core work', I don't do any. But then I don't see the need to when some of my go-to exercises are front lever progressions and weighted pullups.

Just rambling a bit here.

[StrangeGator]

Thanks Dream. Some good thoughts there. I would certainly prefer to spend less time at the gym. My brother got me thinking a lot about keeping it simple. I think I'd like to get stronger, but also cut my work out time by a third or so. I could shift my focus to more of an Olympic based program with a few extras, mainly those push-pull combinations. Gotta get over my fear of dead-lifts.

I like doing ab work, but I probably don't need to do as much as I do. And seriously, the looks I get at the pool aren't "That dude is ripped." It's more like "Why is that old dude so ripped?"

I want to stay thin, but mainly as a byproduct of staying very fit from a cardiovascular standpoint. I love the Tabata routine, but I'm getting conflicting advice. How long a routine should I do and how many times a week? Also, if I can do Tabatas more days a week, should I stop doing my post-lifting cardio circuits? Those consume a lot of time. At what point is this counterproductive to strength and muscle growth? My reason for doing this was to get a maximum calorie burn at every workout.

[Dreamliner]

Thanks Dream. Some good thoughts there. I would certainly prefer to spend less time at the gym. My brother got me thinking a lot about keeping it simple. I think I'd like to get stronger, but also cut my work out time by a third or so. I could shift my focus to more of an Olympic based program with a few extras, mainly those push-pull combinations. Gotta get over my fear of dead-lifts.

I like doing ab work, but I probably don't need to do as much as I do. And seriously, the looks I get at the pool aren't "That dude is ripped." It's more like "Why is that old dude so ripped?"

I want to stay thin, but mainly as a byproduct of staying very fit from a cardiovascular standpoint. I love the Tabata routine, but I'm getting conflicting advice. How long a routine should I do and how many times a week? Also, if I can do Tabatas more days a week, should I stop doing my post-lifting cardio circuits? Those consume a lot of time. At what point is this counterproductive to strength and muscle growth? My reason for doing this was to get a maximum calorie burn at every workout.

I'm the minimalist's minimalist. I'm a HUGE proponent of Minimum Effective Dosage. The question is, what specifically do you want your routine to do for you ? I think it's a question which requires a fairly precise answer so as to avoid conflicting aims. I tend to prioritize myself.

Strength: you can get strong and stay strong performing a couple of compound exercises three times a week. Hell, you can do it on twice a week. There is something to be said for allowing for more recovery. After all, you don't get strong from lifting weights. Rather, you get strong from resting from lifting weights. Most people do twice as much work as they need to and don't work half as hard as they should. Intensity is the key. Then rest. Hack your routine to the bare essentials and go hard after it. I promise you won't be sorry.

Cardio: whether Tabata or other, what are you doing it for ? Endurance ? Health ? For you Martial Arts performance ? I think cardio is WAY overdone, personally. For 99% a little dab'll do ya.

Leanness: it's almost all in the eating.

Just for kicks, I typically work out three days a week, rotating through A and B:

(A) handstand pushups, front lever progressions, barbell deadlifts

(B) one-armed pushup progressions, weighted pullups and one-legged squats.

Because (B) is slightly less time-consuming than (A), I tack on a 'finisher' afterwards. It's somewhat like a Tabata in intensity and takes me all of ten minutes, if that. I just do it to build-in a little work capacity. It's nice to know that I've got a little 'stamina on demand' should I encounter a fight-or-flight situation, and also because it sates the vestiges of the athlete in me. But again, I don't kid myself into thinking that it burns a lot of calories or that it's going to add a single day to my life.

Aside from that I get in lots of walking and I typically fast 14-16 hours a day, populating my condensed eating window with the foods I enjoy ... and beer.

Now, you certainly don't have to go the bodyweight route. Whereas I do handstand pushups, you can do your military press, etc. Either has its advantages. Just as long as you do challenging compound movements you'll get strong and stay strong.

[BossaGator]

I don't have much input, as I don't have much of a background to give advice other than my own experience, but I would definitely agree with Dreamliner's suggestion of adding compound movements in place of isolation movements if you want to save time. I used to do a bodybuilder style routine with tons of iso movements and a few years back replaced them with compound movements (squats, pushes, pulls, deadlifts, & olympic lifts) and it cut a ton of time off my workout as well as making it more fun, for me anyway. I'm also much stronger now and my neuromuscular coordination and athleticism are improving more than they did with iso movements.

I also agree intensity is important, and ramping up the intensity (less rest time, etc.) will cut down your workout time as well and will give cardiovascular benefits as a side effect of your weight work.

[StrangeGator]

Much thanks to both of you. I guess I'll take some time to think about what I want to achieve. I'll come back when I have articulate objectives.

[StrangeGator]

Here we go.


Fitness/Diet Objectives

Gain strength and power
Improve cardiovascular capacity
Improve flexibility
Incremental improvements to body composition (get in 10-12% range)
Save time


The first three translate directly to better performance at the dojo. I need power to move the big guys. I need explosive strength to move fast and take my opponent's balance.

With respect to cardio, I'm in excellent shape, but the more you advance, the more physically demanding the class gets. Some nights, Sensei makes us throw each other over and over without breaks.

I currently do most of my stretching at the dojo. Two days a week is obviously not enough.

Regarding body composition, It's purely vanity. I look so much better at this weight than I did at 215. There's still a layer of fat over my muscles. I still have some isolated softness around my waist.

There's no urgency here, but if the best approach is an assertive one, I'm all for it. My approach to this point has been to create calorie deficits by trying to burn as much as possible with incessant cardio work. My current weight has not changed in a year. I think it's time to work smarter instead of harder. That of course is my last objective.

[trufloridagator]

Strange,

A lot of what has been posted is great.

To simplify things( & I'm short on time), I would:
-Cut down a little bit to start(maybe 2-3% more bf)
-Do a good compound/olympic type program. SS is a great option. 3 times/wk(prob 1-1.5 hours each workout).
You'd probably want a 10% surplus to start & then bump it up a bit as things get heavier. You should be able to keep the bf% fairly low overall & then cut a bit as needed once you have got really strong. You'll look a lot better at say even 12-14% bf(potentially even higher) with a lot of LBM addition & anything you cut below that will just be gravy/insanely ripped.

I can expand later but Dream and I agree mostly in that a simplified strength program is the way to go.

Don't be concerned about deadlifts, you'll have plenty of time to work on form & even heavy weights DLing for the novice lifter aren't really dangerous unless your form is just really horrendous.

SS is a phenonemal read & intro to many of the compound/OL lifts even if you go with a different program for time or other reasons. It's not a program you do forever(unless ur me lol) & will set you up tremendously for life/athletics/martial arts/etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421

[Dreamliner]

Strength and Power: since time is at a premium, limit your routine to bang-for-buck, compound exercises, the big guns. Because you need to throw people around, consider learning to love the deadlift. No movement, IMO, develops better overall strength. But start conservatively and do it judiciously, maybe once a week ramping up to a single, heavy set of five reps. I know that some grapplers and fighters are fond of carrying and slamming heavy bags, so as to replicate the demands of lifting and slamming bodies. I sometimes do this as my 'finisher.'

Cardio: with your fairly regular, marathon people-throwing segments, I wonder about the need to actually add work to that. I should think that you're becoming better adept at throwing people by now. Is it possible that your people-throwing is its own cardio workout ? Now, if you were only called upon to throw people on an irregular basis, then I might add in something that serves to replicate the demand so as to be ready when called upon. It's similar to a trainee of mine who plays pickup basketball regularly. He reported that he was gassed in the beginning, but quickly 'got his wind' over a period of weeks.

Body Composition: at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think it's a mistake to keep increasing cardio to burn fat. Instead, I recommend experimenting with modest calorie reductions.

Something to think about: you might substitute in some bodyweight exercises, given your sport, as you might find them quite strenuous and slightly more akin to the demands of your sport. Challenging pushup variations, for example, leave me huffing-and-puffing in a way that bench presses never did. And they challenge the anterior core in a way which, I think, obviates the need for specialized core exercises.

Come to think of it, I don't do martial arts these days, but my current template may be better-suited for your sport than is your current routine. I do:

deadlifts, pushup variations and handstand pushups, weighted pullups, one-legged squats and will often carry and slam a heavy bag or flip a tractor tire I scarfed up from a neighbor's trash pile. In other words, mine emphasizes strength, power and short bursts of strenuous activities including pushing, pulling, lifting, grabbing and carrying, slamming, jumping and sprinting.

[Dreamliner]

Shorter answer: other than your dojo activities, which, I would think, have a rather profound 'exercising effect', cut back on your programmed workouts. Emphasize strength and get leaner by adjusting your eating as opposed to ever-increasing cardio.

Get stronger and practice the demands of your sport.

[Dreamliner]

Shortest answer ever: HACK!

[StrangeGator]

Great stuff. Thanks.

One note about my current martial arts activities. The three and a half hours of dojo work I do is done on only two nights. We don't have access to our building on other nights. I'd love to train at other dojos throughout the area, but the current demands of my family and the travel distance involved is problematic. I go to three or four seminars a year, which gives me an extra five to seven hours over one weekend. That's great for adding skill, but it doesn't contribute to my workout capacity. If it was convenient, I'd go to the dojo 10-12 hours a week.

Love the idea of the tire flipping type exercises. There are some guys at my gym who do that kind of stuff. They look like they might be high school wrestlers, or former wrestlers.

One question; Given a switch to this three day a week program, what should I do for cardio? Tuesday and Friday nights at the dojo really aren't enough. I don't want to just keep up with these guys. I want to surpass them. The other thing is that I really like running, rowing, stepping and jumping. Do I do 12 minutes of Tabatas at the end of my weight training workout, or do I sequester a couple of days just for some kind of cardio training?

[malscott]

Sheesh-and I felt good because I sparred at the dojo a couple of times last week. The best overall cardio I do is sparring- 1/2hr to an hour a shot. (bunch of five minute rounds) Nothing gets me more jacked, sweaty and works my lungs better than trying to keep from getting hit and repeatedly attempting to hit someone and not getting clocked doing it! FWIW!

[Dreamliner]

Great stuff. Thanks.

One note about my current martial arts activities. The three and a half hours of dojo work I do is done on only two nights. We don't have access to our building on other nights. I'd love to train at other dojos throughout the area, but the current demands of my family and the travel distance involved is problematic. I go to three or four seminars a year, which gives me an extra five to seven hours over one weekend. That's great for adding skill, but it doesn't contribute to my workout capacity. If it was convenient, I'd go to the dojo 10-12 hours a week.

Love the idea of the tire flipping type exercises. There are some guys at my gym who do that kind of stuff. They look like they might be high school wrestlers, or former wrestlers.

One question; Given a switch to this three day a week program, what should I do for cardio? Tuesday and Friday nights at the dojo really aren't enough. I don't want to just keep up with these guys. I want to surpass them. The other thing is that I really like running, rowing, stepping and jumping. Do I do 12 minutes of Tabatas at the end of my weight training workout, or do I sequester a couple of days just for some kind of cardio training?

I can tell you it's my preference to do a brief cardio segment after my strength routine. I'm already amped up and don't have to do a separate warmup, so I can get right into it. Currently, my 'cardio finisher' of choice is to pair two exercises, in this case jump squats and mountain climbers. I go back and forth between the two for 15 reps, then 14 reps, 13 reps ... down to one rep. I do this continuously, resting as little as possible, and I do it against the clock. When I started this I was doing good to get under eight minutes. Now, I've gotten down to about 6:30 and am going to have to figure out a way to make it more challenging.

Doing the cardio on the heels of the strength workout also allows me to recover the next day. I know from experience that I just don't do well with balls-to-the-wall sessions most days of the week.

I personally think that something short and fairly taxing will go a long way to out-fitting you to take on your now more formidable foes. I just don't think you have to do separate, hour-long cardio routines to adapt yourself to long, grueling grappling session. I don't see MMA fighters training that way. A Tabata ought to transfer just fine. I find that with my piddling, 7-8 minute finishers, twice a week at most, I can easily manage a hour or more of fairly intense cardio at any time. I know this only because I do stupid stuff on occasion, just to see if I can do it. My last stupid episode involved taking a deck of cards, and depending on the suit drawn, I would push, bear hug and carry, heave to shoulder and carry or drop and pummel the bag. It took me over an hour, was arduous but did not destroy me. Now, it would destroy me if I trained like that routinely.

Also, in the beginning, Tabata's were considered to be so intense that they were actually only recommended one or two times a week at most. I still think that people are going to ridiculous extremes with cardio. There is such a thing as diminishing returns and, worse, increases stress hormones, tissue loss, injury and burnout.

[StrangeGator]

Sheesh-and I felt good because I sparred at the dojo a couple of times last week. The best overall cardio I do is sparring- 1/2hr to an hour a shot. (bunch of five minute rounds) Nothing gets me more jacked, sweaty and works my lungs better than trying to keep from getting hit and repeatedly attempting to hit someone and not getting clocked doing it! FWIW!

What we do in Aikido isn't anything like boxing, karate or MMA. There's not any true sparring or that kind of sustained work. Someone attacks me a certain way and I execute a specific technique, a joint-lock, throw, pin or some combination of those. This is repeated four times in fairly quick succession, then we change roles. We go until Sensei claps. It's usually enough time for 10-12 throws each. The most intense part is when you get called up by Sensei so he can demonstrate a technique. He executes his throws ferociously and expects you back up off the mat for your next throw in seconds. You may get thrown 12-15 times in very little time, and they're mostly hard break-falls. Once a year, you get birthday throws. There will always be more than one to grow on.

[StrangeGator]

I can tell you it's my preference to do a brief cardio segment after my strength routine. I'm already amped up and don't have to do a separate warmup, so I can get right into it. Currently, my 'cardio finisher' of choice is to pair two exercises, in this case jump squats and mountain climbers. I go back and forth between the two for 15 reps, then 14 reps, 13 reps ... down to one rep. I do this continuously, resting as little as possible, and I do it against the clock.

That really appeals to me. I would probably cycle through more different exercises, because there are so many that I like, plus I believe in shocking my system by changing things up. The thing I like best about this is the post-workout rush I get from interval training.

Any thoughts about stretching? Warm, cold, pre, post?

[deviation]

That really appeals to me. I would probably cycle through more different exercises, because there are so many that I like, plus I believe in shocking my system by changing things up. The thing I like best about this is the post-workout rush I get from interval training.

Any thoughts about stretching? Warm, cold, pre, post?

I'll be honest i didn't read any of the posts above except this one.

But my thoughts on stretching is that it should be doing early and often. Everytime i go to the gym i use 4 to 5 minutes of stretching before my routines and i also stretch my muscle group between each set. Sometimes not every set though. Most sets. Then stretch after my routine. I also start with a light cardio on a stair stepper for about 4 to 5 minutes to get my body warm before my stretching.


DOn't know what kind of routines you do but i find it very important to stretch and flex to force as much blood into the muscle group i'm working. For example.
Last night i did back. Between each lat exercise i did, i would flex my lats for 10 to 15 seconds to force more blood in there and then stretch it out. WHen i do this, i get the best pumps ever. I do this of course on more than just the lats. It just depends what muscle i'm working at the time. Just used lats for an example.

But like i said, i don't know what kind of routines you are doing. If you aren't lifting heavy like i do, this kind of method may not apply to you. But it sure does work for me.

[StrangeGator]

One final thought about Aikido specific strength training. Probably the most prevalent and most important move within the Aikido system is an explosive extension of one foot far forward of the back foot. This is always done on a little bit of a diagonal. There are also backward movements, but you end up in the same position, with your back leg straight and your front knee bent, positioned directly over your foot. The effectiveness of this technique depends a great deal upon how far you can extend, how fast you can shoot that foot out there and how much weight you can carry with you.

This is obviously an invitation to do all kinds of lunges, but I am no expert on lunges. My thinking is that it's a combination of explosive strength and flexibility.

One other thing we do is twist our hips really fast, but I think that's common to almost all martial arts.

[Dreamliner]

That really appeals to me. I would probably cycle through more different exercises, because there are so many that I like, plus I believe in shocking my system by changing things up. The thing I like best about this is the post-workout rush I get from interval training.

Any thoughts about stretching? Warm, cold, pre, post?

The emerging consensus is little or no static stretching prior to activity, only after activity. I do more of a dynamic warmup prior to activity. Squats, multi-directional lunges, arm circles, etc. IMO, pre-workout is NOT the time to establish flexibility records. And a number of studies confirm that static stretching impedes performance by inhibiting force production. Layman's version: it puts the muscles to sleep. That's why it feels so good in the first place!

[StrangeGator]

Three days a week? Haven't been to the gym since Wednesday. I have two Aikido classes tonight, so I can't lift today. I'm going through withdrawal.

[Dreamliner]

Multi-planar lunges would, I should think, fall under the rubric 'practicing the demands of your sport.' Here, you are breaking down a common movement into its component parts and practicing them, just to make sure you can perform them efficiently and unthinkingly without fear of injury.

On the three days a week, I'm not about to cultivate 'training angst' in people by INVITING them to train more frequently. Now, I do understand if they prefer high-frequency training. I myself have dabbled in it from time to time. But for the average person, I'm still inclined to see an overlap between fitness training and martial arts training. Since they both impose significant demands on the body, I still recommend MORE rest than the trainee thinks they need. Also - and this is a little-appreciated secret - finding ways to MANAGE fatigue as opposed to merely bringing it on.

[Dreamliner]

Multi-planar lunges would, I should think, fall under the rubric 'practicing the demands of your sport.' Here, you are breaking down a common movement into its component parts and practicing them, just to make sure you can perform them efficiently and unthinkingly without fear of injury.

On the three days a week, I'm not about to cultivate 'training angst' in people by INVITING them to train more frequently. Now, I do understand if they prefer high-frequency training. I myself have dabbled in it from time to time. But for the average person, I'm still inclined to see an overlap between fitness training and martial arts training. Since they both impose significant demands on the body, I still recommend MORE rest than the trainee thinks they need. Also - and this is a little-appreciated secret - finding ways to MANAGE fatigue as opposed to merely bringing it on.

[Dreamliner]

This article gets to the heart of what I'm harping on. Intensity is King. Intensity is the quickest route to strength and hypertrophy. The more intense the workout, the briefer and less frequently one can work out. Further, strength is key to endurance. Lastly, brief and intense transfers to long and grueling better than long and grueling transfers to long and grueling:

http://www.cbass.com/IntensityResistanceTraining.htm

[Dreamliner]

This article gets to the heart of what I'm harping on. Intensity is King. Intensity is the quickest route to strength and hypertrophy. The more intense the workout, the briefer and less frequently one can work out. Further, strength is key to endurance. Lastly, brief and intense transfers to long and grueling better than long and grueling transfers to long and grueling:

http://www.cbass.com/IntensityResistanceTraining.htm

[StrangeGator]

Multi-planar lunges would, I should think, fall under the rubric 'practicing the demands of your sport.' Here, you are breaking down a common movement into its component parts and practicing them, just to make sure you can perform them efficiently and unthinkingly without fear of injury.

On the three days a week, I'm not about to cultivate 'training angst' in people by INVITING them to train more frequently. Now, I do understand if they prefer high-frequency training. I myself have dabbled in it from time to time. But for the average person, I'm still inclined to see an overlap between fitness training and martial arts training. Since they both impose significant demands on the body, I still recommend MORE rest than the trainee thinks they need. Also - and this is a little-appreciated secret - finding ways to MANAGE fatigue as opposed to merely bringing it on.

Interesting point and very good timing to read this. This is the first day in weeks that I've not felt any type of muscle or joint soreness. I think I got so used to the aches and pains that I thought it was normal.

It's 95 degrees in Chicago today. The AC is out in the dojo. I'm glad to be well-rested.

[StrangeGator]

Finally got back to the gym this morning. 8:30 on a Saturday is very early for me, but I was excited to start my new routine. Here's how it went;

Five minute warmup on eliptical

Bench- One warmup set, then three sets of 205 eight, six, six reps

Row- (alternating between bench sets) Warmup set, then three sets at 135 lbs, six, five, five reps

Military Bench- Warm-up set, then two sets at 135 lbs, eight, seven reps, then did the final set on a machine with 150 lbs. four reps

Pull-ups/Lat pull down- (alternating between military bench sets)14 pull-ups, then three sets of 200 lbs, four, four, three reps

Dead-lift- No idea what my max is - Did 135 lbs as my warmup, but then decided that was all I the weight I wanted to mess with. Did four sets, six reps each time. It just didn't feel right. I know I need to work with more weight than that, or do more reps, but it didn't feel right. My form looked okay in the mirror. Just not feeling it with the deadlift.

Squats- Started a warmup set, but immediately noticed some lower back discomfort, probably resulting from the deadlift. Ditched the bar and did three sets of 20 very deep body-weight squats.

Chin-ups- I know this isn't part of the program, but this is where I usually do curls. I figure chin-ups is a good compound exercise to replace curls. I won't do them every time. Did four sets for a total of 30 reps.

Jumping squat thrusts- Four minute Tabata workout

Eliptical Gasser- One minute warmup, then sixty second sprints, followed by sixty second jog for a total of 10 minutes.

Stretched for two or three minutes. Stretched again when I got home.

That's been four hours. I feel pretty good now. Hope my back is okay tomorrow.

[StrangeGator]

I've had some minor low back soreness since I woke up Sunday. Did a short but intense interval session on Monday. Went to the dojo last night and tweaked my back a little. I'm going to lift today, but I'll be going very light with the squats and passing on the dead-lift. Hope this doesn't persist.

[Dreamliner]

I've had some minor low back soreness since I woke up Sunday. Did a short but intense interval session on Monday. Went to the dojo last night and tweaked my back a little. I'm going to lift today, but I'll be going very light with the squats and passing on the dead-lift. Hope this doesn't persist.

Do you suppose it's from deadlifting ? In the beginning one should rather expect a little back soreness from deadlifting until technique is dialed-in.

Although based on your aforementioned routine you're beating up your back quite a bit with rows, deadlifts, squats, etc.

[StrangeGator]

Do you suppose it's from deadlifting ? In the beginning one should rather expect a little back soreness from deadlifting until technique is dialed-in.

Although based on your aforementioned routine you're beating up your back quite a bit with rows, deadlifts, squats, etc.

Looking back, I'm not sure when the soreness started. It may have actually been a dojo thing, but got a little worse after my Saturday workout. I definitely felt it while I was doing squats. Took it easy at the dojo Tuesday night, skipping some stuff that involved hard breakfalls, then went back to the gym yesterday. Did a hard upper body session, but skipped the deadlift and did squats with lighter weights. Also did some lower back specific stuff I learned the last time I was in PT; walking backwards on the treadmill at an incline. Woke up today feeling better than I've felt in over a week.

Going to watch some online deadlift demos before I go to the gym Saturday morning. My old trainer has offered to watch me, but he doesn't get in until later and I have to go early enough to do a good workout and back in time for synagogue.

[Dreamliner]

Looking back, I'm not sure when the soreness started. It may have actually been a dojo thing, but got a little worse after my Saturday workout. I definitely felt it while I was doing squats. Took it easy at the dojo Tuesday night, skipping some stuff that involved hard breakfalls, then went back to the gym yesterday. Did a hard upper body session, but skipped the deadlift and did squats with lighter weights. Also did some lower back specific stuff I learned the last time I was in PT; walking backwards on the treadmill at an incline. Woke up today feeling better than I've felt in over a week.

Going to watch some online deadlift demos before I go to the gym Saturday morning. My old trainer has offered to watch me, but he doesn't get in until later and I have to go early enough to do a good workout and back in time for synagogue.

Kudos for getting some personal coaching on the deadlift. As an aside, EMG tests show more low back activity for squats than for the deadlifts! Just something to factor in.

[StrangeGator]

Kudos for getting some personal coaching on the deadlift. As an aside, EMG tests show more low back activity for squats than for the deadlifts! Just something to factor in.

Then it's a good thing I eased off on the load I work with.

[gatorsfan530]

My routine (not trying to hijack thread here)

-Do 10 min cardio + walk (either run or do elliptical)
-Stretch for ~4 min or so
-Do about 20-25 minutes of lifting
-bicep curls, chest press, leg workouts, mostly auxiliary machines. Don't really care for benching or squatting. I do like to incorporate some of my old physical therapy workouts for my shoulders too.

-Core workouts (planks primarily)

-Brief walking period

-quick stretch


For me, I don't spend tons of time at workout (45 minutes or so) but I do enjoy it, and frankly I kind of like the fact that I'm not rushing things but at the same time not dragging ass and wasting time.

[Dreamliner]

My routine (not trying to hijack thread here)

-Do 10 min cardio + walk (either run or do elliptical)
-Stretch for ~4 min or so
-Do about 20-25 minutes of lifting
-bicep curls, chest press, leg workouts, mostly auxiliary machines. Don't really care for benching or squatting

-Core workouts (planks primarily)

-Brief walking period

-quick stretch


For me, I don't spend tons of time at workout (45 minutes or so) but I do enjoy it, and frankly I kind of like the fact that I'm not rushing things but at the same time dragging ass and wasting time.

What specifically are you doing for legs ? I'm assuming that you're inviting feedback.

[gatorsfan530]

What specifically are you doing for legs ? I'm assuming that you're inviting feedback.

Oh, sorry. I usually do some leg curls, extensions, leg presses.

Feedback isn't a bad thing :grin:

[Dreamliner]

Oh, sorry. I usually do some leg curls, extensions, leg presses.

Feedback isn't a bad thing :grin:

Hehe, I can always use some myself. My two cents: leg press is a productive exercise. I haven't read much good about leg extensions, due to shearing forces, unless you restrict motion to top thirty degrees of the movement. Not big on leg curls as the glutes and hamstrings are designed to work in tandem. Basically, if you want to save time, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world just to go all out on the leg press.

It's your call though. By all means, do the exercises you enjoy as long as they don't hurt.

FYI: for time-saving measures, I'm a huge proponent of limiting one's self to compound exercises like leg press, chest press and pulldown. A push, a pull and a leg movement and you're good to go. Do them in circuit fashion to save even more time.

[gatorsfan530]

Hehe, I can always use some myself. My two cents: leg press is a productive exercise. I haven't read much good about leg extensions, due to shearing forces, unless you restrict motion to top thirty degrees of the movement. Not big on leg curls as the glutes and hamstrings are designed to work in tandem. Basically, if you want to save time, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world just to go all out on the leg press.

It's your call though. By all means, do the exercises you enjoy as long as they don't hurt.

FYI: for time-saving measures, I'm a huge proponent of limiting one's self to compound exercises like leg press, chest press and pulldown. A push, a pull and a leg movement and you're good to go. Do them in circuit fashion to save even more time.

Yeah, I do enjoy the leg press and the thing with the press (at least from what I've seen) is that it works out all the leg muscles together, where as the curls and extensions focus on certain muscles. The curls and extensions are kind of meh, though sometimes it isn't too bad if I only do one set of 10. I'll have to check out going "all out" too on leg press, usually I don't put a huge amount of resistance, though I admit I could do more weight.

I don't do that much pull down (for whatever reason, I just don't think about it when I'm at the gym) but I do find it fairly effective. I'll have to look into working that in to my routine.

Appreciate the help for sure!

[Dreamliner]

Yeah, I do enjoy the leg press and the thing with the press (at least from what I've seen) is that it works out all the leg muscles together, where as the curls and extensions focus on certain muscles. The curls and extensions are kind of meh, though sometimes it isn't too bad if I only do one set of 10. I'll have to check out going "all out" too on leg press, usually I don't put a huge amount of resistance, though I admit I could do more weight.

I don't do that much pull down (for whatever reason, I just don't think about it when I'm at the gym) but I do find it fairly effective. I'll have to look into working that in to my routine.

Appreciate the help for sure!

By 'all out' I don't mean crazy. But yes, I do mean a challenging level of resistance that requires upmost focus.

Thing to keep in mind: people in general, and men in particular tend to be already strong in the quads and chest and need to emphasize butt and upper back, hence the relative importance of the leg press, pulldown (and a rowing movement would be especially good).

[StrangeGator]

The pulls are the strongest part of my workout. I always do a warmup set of pull ups before I get the weighted lat pulldowns. I'm up to 18 ups now. Per Dream's advice, I do my pull ups/lat pulldowns between military bench sets. I do rows between bench sets. My shoulders are getting pretty big. I should probably be careful since I've already had to replace several pair of pants and alter a few others. It's hard enough buying a suit off the rack when you wear a 44 jacket and 33" pants. Six months from now that could be 46 and 32.

[LeafUF]

I should probably be careful since I've already had to replace several pair of pants and alter a few others. It's hard enough buying a suit off the rack when you wear a 44 jacket and 33" pants. Six months from now that could be 46 and 32.

I know exactly what you mean. They are starting to make sport cut suits easier to find though which is what I usually have to buy when I get new suits. Worse for me is buying dress shirts with a freaking 17 to 17.5 inch neck. All my shirts end up being huge if I dont get them altered or custom made.

[Dreamliner]

Everyone's looking for that elusive, magical routine that does everything. Then they are surprised when their routine gets them little of anything.

Strength first. All else follows. Strength can and does improve endurance, mobility, body composition and health.

My standard advice is focus on strength and not much else, unless you're engaged in a sport which requires uncommon levels of endurance. And even then the practice required for the sport will get you much of what you need in that area.

[deviation]

Oh, sorry. I usually do some leg curls, extensions, leg presses.

Feedback isn't a bad thing :grin:

You should check out my leg routine, i'll be posting it on friday. :)

It's alot like this video, except i throw in front squats and 1 more calf exercise. Generally i don't do alot of hamstring exercises. You hit them quite abit in other compound movements, but i do hit them later in the week if i feel if they are lagging behind. Somethings i do for hamstrings : lying leg curls, standing leg curl with cable, box jumps, stiff leg deadlifts and weighted lunges.

Working the stairmaster also hits them some. But yeah, check out my log on friday. I'll have the routine up and post how it went. Leg day is the worst, always hurts the next day.

ECy-kzdhiT0

[StrangeGator]

Until I changed up my routine two weeks ago, I was going hard on the stairmaster, treadmill and elliptical, so I didn't do much with my legs beyond squats and dead lifts in my weight routine. Even now, I'm relying more on the plyometrics I do in my twice a week interval workouts. I was working the leg machines for a while, but it seemed like it slowed me down at the dojo.

[Dreamliner]

The routine I do is predicated on what I want. What I want:

(1) Lean body composition: this is almost all eating.

(2) Mobility: it's why I do a dynamic warmup and a little bit of yoga-like stretching after.

(3) Particular skills: I'm working on pistol squats, one-armed pushups, et.al.

(4) Strength: I treat the above skills like strength exercises. This is to say that I select progressions that allow for only a few reps and with ample rest required between efforts. And I only do each particular exercise once a week.

(5) Muscular endurance: follows from strength, not the reverse. I don't need to do high reps of anything to enhance muscular endurance. Becoming stronger in one-armed pushup progressions enables me to perform more standard pushups without trying to increase reps.

(6) Work-capacity: for the sort of stamina on demand that an emergency situation would require, I send my heart rate through the roof for 5 to 10 minutes no more than twice a week. If a situation arose on which I'd be required to perform at high capacity for half an hour, an hour or more, the few minutes of work I perform a week would provide sufficient reserve to manage. Aerobic benefits accrue from anaerobic exercise, not the reverse.

(7) Relaxation and health: I get in plenty of mostly leisurely walking. I rarely feel more relaxed than when I'm walking.

Time expenditure: aside from the walking, my workouts take less than a hour, three times a week. That includes warmup, strength component, cardio, relaxation walk and stretching.

[StrangeGator]

Time expenditure: aside from the walking, my workouts take less than a hour, three times a week. That includes warmup, strength component, cardio, relaxation walk and stretching.

This is the part I'm starting to question. I asked for advice for a time-efficient workout, but for the moment I have a lot of time to spare. It's very likely that I could be working 50-60 hours a week in three or four more weeks. What would be good to do with the weeks when I don't have any work? Seriously. What would a dedicated fitness junky do if they had all the time in the world to workout?

[Dreamliner]

[/B]

This is the part I'm starting to question. I asked for advice for a time-efficient workout, but for the moment I have a lot of time to spare. It's very likely that I could be working 50-60 hours a week in three or four more weeks. What would be good to do with the weeks when I don't have any work? Seriously. What would a dedicated fitness junky do if they had all the time in the world to workout?

'Fitness junkie' seems to convey someone who's addicted to exercising and wants to exercise all the time. That would not be me. I relish doing what is necessary, and very little more, to attain to my notion of fitness.

I'm a firm believer in Minimum Effective Dosage, particularly for the busy individual. I certainly do believe that one can exercise so much that it becomes a detriment to progress. Therefore, I don't want to cultivate 'training angst'. Get in. Get out. Get on with your life.

Now, for the busy and antsy person who's got a little extra time on their hands, who can't conceive of not adding something in, I'd say add low-intensity stuff. Walk. Hike. Canoe. Raft. Maybe a little rock climbing for a rush.

[LeafUF]

Two a days? Spend all day at the dojo? You still need time to recover so its not like you can just up your output infinitely.

[Dreamliner]

Less is more. Work harder, not longer. Then rest.

[BossaGator]

When I have time (e.g. vacation, etc.) and feel like hitting the gym harder I do 2-3 workouts a day instead of one. Usually one strict cardio, one crossfit metcon, and one strength/lifting workout. Or some combination thereof. Very important to get rest, though, especially if you're doing strength work.

[Dreamliner]

Remember that the body doesn't really work like an engine, add fuel, get output. Rather, it's stress + rest = output. Some people exercise so much that fatigue is always masking fitness. Yes, you can make linear progress for sometime. But sooner of later everybody has to pay the piper.

[StrangeGator]

Two a days? Spend all day at the dojo? You still need time to recover so its not like you can just up your output infinitely.

My dojo only has three classes a week. There's a dojo in the city that has eight or nine Aikido classes and three Iaido classes every week. If I lived within five miles of that place, I'd be there every day.

[StrangeGator]

So I'm down to three days of lifting, about an hour each time, plus ten minutes of intense cardio at the end, one or two 20-25 minute interval circuits and three Aikido classes. FYI, Aikido has become a bit less aerobic lately. (Not sure why.)

Also, I walk everywhere I go, unless I have passengers. The public library, Starbucks, bookstore, train stop are all about a mile each way. I do eight to ten round trips a week.

[Dreamliner]

So I'm down to three days of lifting, about an hour each time, plus ten minutes of intense cardio at the end, one or two 20-25 minute interval circuits and three Aikido classes. FYI, Aikido has become a bit less aerobic lately. (Not sure why.)

Also, I walk everywhere I go, unless I have passengers. The public library, Starbucks, bookstore, train stop are all about a mile each way. I do eight to ten round trips a week.

That's plenty of activity in my book.

[Dreamliner]

Gator grad and nutrition researcher John Barban captures my thoughts succinctly - eat less, exercise less. Find your sweet-spot:

http://www.johnbarban.com

[StrangeGator]

I'm about three weeks into this new routine. I'm definitely getting stronger and might even be getting bigger. I've gained about five pounds but lost a half inch or more around the waist. Don't really feel strongly about being big, but at some point it's inevitable.

No way do I want to go up in jacket size. I spent a small fortune replacing or altering my pants last year.