Supplements

[LeafUF]

Saw this mentioned in a few other threads and figured I would start one for it.

What does everyone take? Anything you would recommend?

My standard supplements are:
Whey
Multivitamin
Joint support
Fish Oil

I also take a few others on and off:
Creatine
NO Preworkout
BCAAs

Right now I am trying out Jack3d as my preworkout with scivations xtend. Like the taste of both and it helps get me through my fasted workouts pretty well. As far as the energy boost from Jack3d, I think it is just alright, I have taken others that I liked more.

[Dreamliner]

Supplements I take:

meat
vegetables
fruit
grains
sugary foods

:wink:

[StrangeGator]

BCAAs
Whey, but only three or four times a week.
Thinking about adding Creatine and something like Jack3d.

[wrl344]

I drink beer

[malscott]

Metamucil :) (colon blow for geezers)

[Efeezy]

LMAO

[LeafUF]

BCAAs
Whey, but only three or four times a week.
Thinking about adding Creatine and something like Jack3d.

Jack3d does have a small amount of Creatine in it so it might be a two birds with one stone situation if that is the route you want to go.

I think Jack3d is OK, but as a caffeine junkie it may not be giving me the boost it would to someone who doesn't normally use the stuff.

[kalaniocc]

jack3d tastes like ass. i dont know how you down that stuff!

[LeafUF]

jack3d tastes like ass. i dont know how you down that stuff!

Double the amount of water. Its really not that bad.

[G8rChuck85]

Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey.
Omega 3 Fish Oil.
Multivitamin Complete.
To much Caffeine.
Ibuprofen on a semi-regular basis.

That's it.

[StrangeGator]

I drink beer

Pre-workout?

[G8RBrave]

I'm down to just a simple whey shake after workout and another before bed.

[Dreamliner]

My post-workout nutrition yesterday was a bowl of triple brownie chunk ice cream with sliced bananas.

[swoosh69]

RNA/DNA
L-arginine
Pyruvate
acidophilus

[StrangeGator]

I'm almost out of whey and down to my last few capsules of BCAAs. Thinking of going without both for a while. I know they helped some, but they're expensive and I'd like to see how I do without them. I was only doing the shakes four times a week. Probably used the BCAAs on half my lifting days, but had just started to use them before I went to the dojo.

Very serious about trying Jack3d. A girl at my dojo is a microbiologist and physiologist at Loyola University Medical school. I told her all about the nitric oxide thing with Jack3d. She thought it sounded dodgy, but I emailed her some peer reviewed journal articles. Saw her in class the following week and she said she was really impressed with the research and thought it was legit. The trick to getting optimal benefit, is pushing your workout so you get the most from the momentary increase in training capacity. You've got to push your workout whether you feel and actual energy boost or not.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Almost nothing.

Whey protein, fish oil. That's typically it. If you're so inclined, creatine is also backed by good evidence.

99% of the rest is bunk. Save your money.

[montyw64]

I drink beer too........Lots now that football season is here

[BossaGator]

Whey protein post-workout.
Creatine pre-workout (some people say post is better, but about 1/2 hr or so pre-workout seems to work best for me).
Fish Oil on a daily basis.
Multivitamin on a daily basis.
Glutamine sometimes, but frankly I don't think it does much. Just trying to use up what I have left right now.
Sometimes I also take a FRS energy drink pre-workout if I'm feeling sluggish. Or sometimes coffee.

Otherwise, eat good foods, get good sleep, and work out hard. THe sleep thing comes and goes, but I tend to do OK with the other two.

[GuyWhiteyCorngood]

Fish oil and grass fed beef
vitamin D when it's not summer (I live in Seattle)

[BossaGator]

grass fed beef

We've been getting grass fed ribeyes lately at Whole Foods. Damn they're tasty. So good I frequently even eat most of the fat.

[GuyWhiteyCorngood]

We've been getting grass fed ribeyes lately at Whole Foods. Damn they're tasty. So good I frequently even eat most of the fat.

Go for the fat, man! Omega 3's are balanced in grass fed beef - unlike the tainted feedlot nastiness.

You could also save some money if you have a freezer. Check out eatwild.com and find a farm that will ship to you. If you don't have any good local options, US Wellness meats has some good stuff. Whole Foods will take a chunk out of your wallet.

I'm convinced most supplements are a sham, but I confess that my favorite logical fallacy is "appeal to nature". I like the idea of putting supplement money towards quality food sources.

[BossaGator]

Thanks for the website. Going to check it out. Up here (VA) there are a bunch of good local organic farms.

[GuyWhiteyCorngood]

Thanks for the website. Going to check it out. Up here (VA) there are a bunch of good local organic farms.

You might even be near Polyface Farms, which is owned by Joel Salatin - the poster boy of sustainable agriculture. There are some cool Youtube videos on Polyface farms.

[LeafUF]

We've been getting grass fed ribeyes lately at Whole Foods. Damn they're tasty. So good I frequently even eat most of the fat.

If you want some good steaks go to the Falls Church farmers market on Saturday mornings and check out the vendors there.

Its just down the street from the State Theater.

[BossaGator]

If you want some good steaks go to the Falls Church farmers market on Saturday mornings and check out the vendors there.

Its just down the street from the State Theater.

I know exactly where that is. Thanks for the heads up. We used to get some meat at the Courthouse Farmers' Market near where we live, but have gotten out of the habit of buying in advance (now usually just get steaks at the store on the days we buy groceries, and cook them that night). But I'd much rather my money go all (or almost all) to the farm than give Whole Foods its sizable cut. Also why we do a farm share for produce during the warm months and only buy what we aren't able to get from the farm at the store.

[deviation]

http://i52.tinypic.com/143qcfo.jpg


That is a old one i took almost a month ago. Since then i have added Muscle Pharm creatine (love it), Agmatine, 5 lb tub of chocolate Myofusion and Anavite (multi vitamin). Beta-alanine is also on the way. :)

Yeah, i love supplements.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Such a waste of money. :(

[teebone7200]

What do you all think of Muscle Milk?

[deviation]

Such a waste of money. :(

Sure if you don't know how to use them. But i love them and I have had great results with my supplements.

My hobby and career is inside a gym. So when i have some spare change to spend it's usually toward supplements. :) I love to train.

[deviation]

What do you all think of Muscle Milk?



Heard Graham cracker tastes pretty good. But as far as the profile goes, it's not that great. The price is decent though.

Personally i love myofusion for morning and post workout. Love U.P. 2.0 for anytime shake and before bed. Both of them have outstanding profiles.

If you feel like trying a protein before you buy it, go to this link. http://www.truscience.com/samples.html

You can try 1 of each and it's free shipping. Try it out. Trutein has a great profile and great taste. Loved vanilla and cinnabun.

[Dreamliner]

My take on supplements is that while I don't think the vast majority actually need them, most are probably not harmful and some may help a l-i-t-t-l-e bit, with the accent on 'little bit.' To put it in percentage terms, the religious use of supplements may yield 5% improvement.

The problem is that 95% of men have nowhere near the body composition or indeed entertain the sort of goals that warrant fine-tuning.

Strength train and watch your calories.

[BossaGator]

Sure if you don't know how to use them. But i love them and I have had great results with my supplements.

My hobby and career is inside a gym. So when i have some spare change to spend it's usually toward supplements. :) I love to train.

Deviation - do you know anything about Progenex products? A trainer at a crossfit gym I go to from time to time recommended them, and I know they're used a lot within that community.

If you're affiliated with a competing brand & can't give an opinion I understand, but you seem to have the base of experience & knowledge about that stuff to give an educated opinion.

TIA for any input.

http://progenexusa.com/default.aspx

[GuyWhiteyCorngood]

Deviation - do you know anything about Progenex products? A trainer at a crossfit gym I go to from time to time recommended them, and I know they're used a lot within that community.

If you're affiliated with a competing brand & can't give an opinion I understand, but you seem to have the base of experience & knowledge about that stuff to give an educated opinion.

TIA for any input.

http://progenexusa.com/default.aspx

Seems like a staple amongst competitive crossfitters. It's popular in my gym, too.

[deviation]

Deviation - do you know anything about Progenex products? A trainer at a crossfit gym I go to from time to time recommended them, and I know they're used a lot within that community.

If you're affiliated with a competing brand & can't give an opinion I understand, but you seem to have the base of experience & knowledge about that stuff to give an educated opinion.

TIA for any input.

http://progenexusa.com/default.aspx

Sure don't sorry, I usually just stick with brands that are on BB.com. You can make a post here - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1

I'm sure you will get feed back. Most everything i have learned about supplements and key ingredients in supplements is from the supplements forum. Learned more there than i did in the books i had to study for my certification.

Good luck, just have to remember. What works for someone else doesn't mean it will work for you. Doesn't hurt to try something once though.

Just by looking at their protein profiles... Huge waste of money. You can find protein powders much better than theirs for less.

[BossaGator]

Thanks for the input. I'm still undecided b/c their product is definitely on the expensive side. I'll see what kind of info is available on bodybuilding.com.

[deviation]

My take on supplements is that while I don't think the vast majority actually need them, most are probably not harmful and some may help a l-i-t-t-l-e bit, with the accent on 'little bit.' To put it in percentage terms, the religious use of supplements may yield 5% improvement.

The problem is that 95% of men have nowhere near the body composition or indeed entertain the sort of goals that warrant fine-tuning.

Strength train and watch your calories.

You are somewhat on the money. Supplements have helped me in a huge way. With out a pre-workout i don't think i would be where i am now.

About 2 years ago I never wanted to go workout or go to the gym because when i got home i was dead tired. I workout outside in the heat all day long doing nothing bug digging or tearing up concrete. Basically a workout in it's self. I still wanted to go to the gym but didn't have the focus or energy to go.

Then i got into searching for a pre-workout. 1st one was N.O. Xplode. Wow, talk about something that will almost make you throw up. It was my 1st one though, so at the time i didn't know if these things tasted good or what. I would just chug it down and go. It worked for me. Gave me clean energy and helped me get through my workouts.

Then i youtube'd some reviews of more PWO's. Then came Jack3d.... Ugh. The worst PWO in my opinion ever. This stuff gave me energy for about 30 minutes or so. Got through my workouts great. Then when i left, it was a crash like i've never experienced. Bad headaches and i just felt like going to sleep right then and there. VERY BAD product. SOmething i'll never take again.

Eventually i wound up trying several different supplements, pre-workout, Intra and Post. 2 years later i have found supplements that i love, they work for me and I stick with them. They are a staple in my supplement stack.

Every once and awhile i'll go out and try the new stuff that hit's the market. I'm very interested in trying Alpha pump when it comes out. Profile looks great for a pre-workout.


So, i wouldn't say it's just 5%, i think supplements if used right can help someone much more than 5%. When i was taking SizeOn stacked with SP max, that shot me through the roof with strength gains. So much more if i wasn't taking any supplements. Now i'm loving MP's creatine, great blend of 5 creatines. I'm still seeing strength increases every 2 weeks in all areas.
2 months ago i could barely get 225lb bench press up 1 time. 2 weeks later it was 3 times. 4 weeks ago from today i got it up 5 times. Last week i got it up 8 times. I also go 100 lb dumbbells up on the flat bench up 10 times, something i've never been able to do.

But hey, what works for me ultimately might not work for the next guy.

[deviation]

I'm down to just a simple whey shake after workout and another before bed.

Why in the world would you take whey before bed? You want a slow digesting protein before bed. Taking whey would be a waste. As it wouldn't nearly last as long as a casein would. Now if you are taking a blend like Myofusion then i would understand but taking 100% whey would not be a good idea before bed.

Times to take whey

Morning when you wake up
Right before workout
Right after workout

Personally if i do take protein before bed it's one of these 3. All 3 are protein blends, with casein and whey. Plus they all are like having dessert.

Combat CnC - tastes like cookies and cream ice cream if used with milk
Ultra Peptide 2.0 cinnamon roll - Yes tastes like cinnabun
Myofusion CnC, Chocolate, Banana Perfection or CPB - All 4 flavors taste great and mix great.

[deviation]

RNA/DNA
L-arginine
Pyruvate
acidophilus

Change arginine to agmatine. Arginine hasn't proven anything. Studies show that it's pretty much worthless. There is a reason why gaspari took it out of SuperPump max.

[StrangeGator]

I workout outside in the heat all day long doing nothing bug digging or tearing up concrete. Basically a workout in it's self. I still wanted to go to the gym but didn't have the focus or energy to go.

Then i youtube'd some reviews of more PWO's. Then came Jack3d.... Ugh. The worst PWO in my opinion ever. This stuff gave me energy for about 30 minutes or so. Got through my workouts great. Then when i left, it was a crash like i've never experienced. Bad headaches and i just felt like going to sleep right then and there. VERY BAD product. SOmething i'll never take again.

I wonder if there's a connection between the amount of sustained activity throughout the day and the effect of the nitric oxide supplement you took. Jack3d is supposedly one of the cleanest on the market. The others you were using may have real neuro stimulants, which isn't the point of those supplements. What you're supposed to get is a real boost of physical capacity by getting more oxygen into your blood. If you've been out in the sun, tearing up concrete all day, these products might not work for you at all.

[Dreamliner]

You are somewhat on the money. Supplements have helped me in a huge way. With out a pre-workout i don't think i would be where i am now.

About 2 years ago I never wanted to go workout or go to the gym because when i got home i was dead tired. I workout outside in the heat all day long doing nothing bug digging or tearing up concrete. Basically a workout in it's self. I still wanted to go to the gym but didn't have the focus or energy to go.

Then i got into searching for a pre-workout. 1st one was N.O. Xplode. Wow, talk about something that will almost make you throw up. It was my 1st one though, so at the time i didn't know if these things tasted good or what. I would just chug it down and go. It worked for me. Gave me clean energy and helped me get through my workouts.

Then i youtube'd some reviews of more PWO's. Then came Jack3d.... Ugh. The worst PWO in my opinion ever. This stuff gave me energy for about 30 minutes or so. Got through my workouts great. Then when i left, it was a crash like i've never experienced. Bad headaches and i just felt like going to sleep right then and there. VERY BAD product. SOmething i'll never take again.

Eventually i wound up trying several different supplements, pre-workout, Intra and Post. 2 years later i have found supplements that i love, they work for me and I stick with them. They are a staple in my supplement stack.

Every once and awhile i'll go out and try the new stuff that hit's the market. I'm very interested in trying Alpha pump when it comes out. Profile looks great for a pre-workout.


So, i wouldn't say it's just 5%, i think supplements if used right can help someone much more than 5%. When i was taking SizeOn stacked with SP max, that shot me through the roof with strength gains. So much more if i wasn't taking any supplements. Now i'm loving MP's creatine, great blend of 5 creatines. I'm still seeing strength increases every 2 weeks in all areas.
2 months ago i could barely get 225lb bench press up 1 time. 2 weeks later it was 3 times. 4 weeks ago from today i got it up 5 times. Last week i got it up 8 times. I also go 100 lb dumbbells up on the flat bench up 10 times, something i've never been able to do.

But hey, what works for me ultimately might not work for the next guy.

Okay, maybe 6%. :wink: Seriously though, here's a more nuanced reaction:

We know that whey protein promotes protein synthesis. We do not know if protein synthesis promotes long-term muscle growth. We do know that mechanical stimulus (strength training) produces muscle growth.

We do know that stimulants promote energy. We also know that dynamic warmups promote more energy.

We know that creatine appears to play a role in enhancing recovery. We know that recovery enhances recovery.

You see, correlation is not causation. I don't have a problem with people taking supplements. I've taken a few myself over the years. The problem I have is with claims that gains are due to supplements ... and not some of the other more obvious factors I've mentioned.

[deviation]

I wonder if there's a connection between the amount of sustained activity throughout the day and the effect of the nitric oxide supplement you took. Jack3d is supposedly one of the cleanest on the market. The others you were using may have real neuro stimulants, which isn't the point of those supplements. What you're supposed to get is a real boost of physical capacity by getting more oxygen into your blood. If you've been out in the sun, tearing up concrete all day, these products might not work for you at all.

Actually profile wise, Jack3d is one of the worst pwo's on the market. Back then i just didn't know any better. Jack3d is pretty much all stims. Alot like 1mr. Too much stim for me. Plus it's so easy to become immune to that product.

For no stims i love hemavol. Stim wise i love superpump max. Adding Agmatine to SP max is freaking awesome too. SP Max offers alot as far as pre-workouts go.

If you are looking for max pumps like i do, look into agmatine. Stuff is awesome.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Sure if you don't know how to use them.

Nah.

[rounds]

Was it P.T. Barnum that said
"there's a sucker born every
minute" or something like that?
.
Show me the pure scientific
research if your product is so
wonderful, and I don't mean
anecdotal or pseudoscience bull
****. Double-blind studies are
not that hard or expensive to
do, yet you will find ZERO
properly conducted studies for
these scam products. You should
simply ask yourself, why?
.
Someone wrote about "molecularly
purified" fish oil to avoid
mercury poisoning. WTF does
that mean and how the hell do
you propose they do it???
.
Many boast of the goodness of
Carlsons fish oil as being the
medical grade best or some words
to that effect. Maybe it is, but
how do you know? Who licenses
and inspects their plants for
CGMP's(current good manufacturing
practices) and verifies the
proper shipping, handling,
storage and shelf-life of their
product?
I'll tell you who, NOBODY.
It could be made in a toilet
in Haiti for all anyone knows.
Most likely it is made by a
cheap contractor in China and
spends 4-6 weeks in a 150 degree
shipping container on a slow
boat from China.
P.T. was right.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Almost everything annointed "the next best thing" in supplementation will soon be negated. Very few things slip through the cracks. Those that do - the ones that stay in favor for at least 2 years - are the only ones worth spending money on.

And I had previously been a "try it all" type of guy, which actually ended up including not just useless stuff, but dangerous stuff like andro.

[fwbgator]

I have a question, it may be answered with suppliments or it might be answered with eating natural things to help increase...
I had to go in and get some tests done..... Tests showed my Testosterone (SP??) was much lower than it should be at my age, and it could be the cause of a few other problems...
I am suppose to go back to the doc's but delaying it for now, as I want to do some research on my own 1st, there are a lot of things I have read that you can go to GNC or Viatamen Shoppe and get a testosterone increaser (or whatever they call it), does anyone have any experience with this, or is there a way you can increase it by what you eat??? I don't want to go the route of like HGH or anything like that, but just curious....

[Dreamliner]

I have a question, it may be answered with suppliments or it might be answered with eating natural things to help increase...
I had to go in and get some tests done..... Tests showed my Testosterone (SP??) was much lower than it should be at my age, and it could be the cause of a few other problems...
I am suppose to go back to the doc's but delaying it for now, as I want to do some research on my own 1st, there are a lot of things I have read that you can go to GNC or Viatamen Shoppe and get a testosterone increaser (or whatever they call it), does anyone have any experience with this, or is there a way you can increase it by what you eat??? I don't want to go the route of like HGH or anything like that, but just curious....

Is it actually low or towards the low end of normal ? I know that it's a very wide range. Obviously I'm not a doctor and will not comment on the reported risks of low testosterone. However, there is some good news on the non-medicine front: (1) strength training can increase testosterone and (2) the testosterone theory of muscle growth has been recently debunked. In other words, you don't need a lot of testosterone to grow muscle.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Perhaps not for muscle growth, but testosterone plays many other roles in the male body ... low T is something to keep an eye out for.

Nothing you can get at GNC will raise it. Like Dream said, weight lifting will raise it, and actually getting enough saturated fats will ensure your body is able to produce sex hormones (coconut oil, eggs, avocados, etc.). A lot of people who "eat healthy" avoid saturated fats and cholesterol, which makes it hard to produce sex hormones.

If your levels are truly high, only a doctor can help you with that. Like I said, nothing at GNC is going to make a dent in your hormonal levels. In fact, 98% of what GNC sells is absolutely worthless.

[Dreamliner]

Thanks for the assist, orange.

[deviation]

Perhaps not for muscle growth, but testosterone plays many other roles in the male body ... low T is something to keep an eye out for.

Nothing you can get at GNC will raise it. Like Dream said, weight lifting will raise it, and actually getting enough saturated fats will ensure your body is able to produce sex hormones (coconut oil, eggs, avocados, etc.). A lot of people who "eat healthy" avoid saturated fats and cholesterol, which makes it hard to produce sex hormones.

If your levels are truly high, only a doctor can help you with that. Like I said, nothing at GNC is going to make a dent in your hormonal levels. In fact, 98% of what GNC sells is absolutely worthless.

There are plenty of test boosters at gnc. Not very good ones but there are some. You'll find much better ones on bb.com though.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

There isn't a single test booster that is backed with anywhere near conclusive evidence of actual testosterone boosting on humans.

Trib is one of the longest-standing scams in the bb world http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10997957

ZMA increases testosterone to normal levels if you already have a magnesium deficiency.

DHEA is something I cannot believe they still sell to young people trying to gain muscle.

Here's the shortcut key:

If it works, you probably already know about it

If it works really well, it won't be legal soon

[orangeblueorangeblue]

And you can take that from someone who's probably wasted $3,000 on hot supplements over the time I've been training. Almost all of them have been debunked or are out of favor by now.

[Jupgator]

Just a caution to those who take supplements based on what others are doing, or believing the marketing campaigns. Supplements are popular, but I suspect most benefit the supplement industry much more than the users and as they are studied, they are being shown to be ineffective or harmful.

I used saw palmetto for 20 years, but got an enlarged prostate and then prostate cancer, even though the marketing says "supports prostate health", whatever that really means. Spent $$ and had faith based on both the marketing message and even my doctors recommendation to take it. Read an article a couple weeks ago that saw palmetto was studied by the University of Wisconson, and proved to be totally ineffective.

Then this morning there was an article in the newspaper that vitamin E was studied by the University of Minnesota, and the outcome was expected to indicate that it helps the prostate. Turned out that there was a 17% increase in prostate cancer by those in the study group that took it vs. a placebo.

Supplements go to market without impartial study or vetting. Snake oil comes in all kinds of packaging and marketing campaigns.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Yes, and bodybuilding ones are the worst in this regard. People are always looking for the magic bullet that will boost them in ways they have never seen. All it takes is some drummed up studies and glossy ads and folks are spending $40 for a tub of placebo effect or worse.

[rounds]

Was it P.T. Barnum that said
"there's a sucker born every
minute" or something like that?
.
Show me the pure scientific
research if your product is so
wonderful, and I don't mean
anecdotal or pseudoscience bull
****. Double-blind studies are
not that hard or expensive to
do, yet you will find ZERO
properly conducted studies for
these scam products. You should
simply ask yourself, why?
.
Someone wrote about "molecularly
purified" fish oil to avoid
mercury poisoning. WTF does
that mean and how the hell do
you propose they do it???
.
Many boast of the goodness of
Carlsons fish oil as being the
medical grade best or some words
to that effect. Maybe it is, but
how do you know? Who licenses
and inspects their plants for
CGMP's(current good manufacturing
practices) and verifies the
proper shipping, handling,
storage and shelf-life of their
product?
I'll tell you who, NOBODY.
It could be made in a toilet
in Haiti for all anyone knows.
Most likely it is made by a
cheap contractor in China and
spends 4-6 weeks in a 150 degree
shipping container on a slow
boat from China.
P.T. was right.
*
*
sigh...
*
*
You can't fix stupid.
If I am going to put something in my pie hole every single day, I am going to do some due diligence and caveat emptoring...
The FDA does not have the resources to monitor all of these products and their claims and only really is involved with them if they kill or maim someone. Adulterated and misbranded supplements are as common as can be. I suspect over 75% of products in any GNC type store are sub-potent, super-potent, contaminated with insect material or other foreign matter, are missing or contain ingredients, have been stored at improper temperature or humidity, have shelf-life problems, dissolution problems or any of another 100 or so parameters that have not been met to comply with current good manufacturing practices or even common damn sense practices. The supplement lobby bought congress in 1994 to get the FDA out of their business practices. This even happened AFTER the 1990
L-TRYPTOPHAN 500MG ; 1 to 3 a day for insomnia or depression fiasco!
It is estimated 2% of the U.S. population was taking this supplement. It killed 37 people and injured thousands more with Eosinophilia Myalgia Syndrome.
Google it for your educational pleasure.
Let the Buyer Beware could never be more important than for something you put IN your BODY everyday.

[jdrgator]

Was it P.T. Barnum that said
"there's a sucker born every
minute" or something like that?
.
Show me the pure scientific
research if your product is so
wonderful, and I don't mean
anecdotal or pseudoscience bull
****. Double-blind studies are
not that hard or expensive to
do, yet you will find ZERO
properly conducted studies for
these scam products. You should
simply ask yourself, why?
.
Someone wrote about "molecularly
purified" fish oil to avoid
mercury poisoning. WTF does
that mean and how the hell do
you propose they do it???
.
Many boast of the goodness of
Carlsons fish oil as being the
medical grade best or some words
to that effect. Maybe it is, but
how do you know? Who licenses
and inspects their plants for
CGMP's(current good manufacturing
practices) and verifies the
proper shipping, handling,
storage and shelf-life of their
product?
I'll tell you who, NOBODY.
It could be made in a toilet
in Haiti for all anyone knows.
Most likely it is made by a
cheap contractor in China and
spends 4-6 weeks in a 150 degree
shipping container on a slow
boat from China.
P.T. was right.

I agree with much of what you said (about 99.99%) except the part about double blind studies being inexpensive. Actually, research, particularly those involving actual live human subjects is generally very expensive. Even small studies can run into the thousands, if not tens of thousands or more.

[rounds]

Human research on new molecular entities
or even "me too" prescription
drugs is indeed VERY expensive.
Supplements generally recognized
as safe can be tested for certain
effectiveness on prisoners or
similar populations in proper
scientific studies for relatively
"pennies". Of course, no one
does them because they will prove
the "claimed benefit" a hoax.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Wait, testing potentially dangerous things on prisoners is a good idea now?

Good lord.

[Dreamliner]

I'm guessing that there are incentives attached and that they get them to sign a big fat waiver.

In any case, based on the numbers of drugs that are pulled from the market, on the discovery that they're killing people, everybody's effectively a guinea pig.

[rounds]

GENERALLY RECOGNIZED AS SAFE are
the take home words in the 2nd
sentence, GRAS.
Human testing would be to prove
effectivness for a claimed use,
not safety, per se.
INFORMED CONSENT releases are
signed.
Cigarette money is paid.
Placebos are given to half, double
blindly.
Outcomes must be measurable.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Seriously, why do you type like that?

Also, they do short-range human tests constantly in the supplement industry.

[rounds]

LOS
.
Leon
Orr
Syn
drome