TFG's get bigger, stronger Log

[trufloridagator]

Not sure why no one has logs ITF, but I'm going to post mine, especially since I continually am derailing other more specific threads with my problems and for some motivation.

Background:
On 1/1/10: 5'7", 135 lbs, "skinny fat" & insanely weak
Did SS(Starting Strength) & PPAN(Practical Programming Advanced Novice) while eating anything & everything & got to 175, around 20-24% BF. Got to:
Squat: 245
Bench:140
Press: 92.5
DL: 265
Front Squat: 155

Had a bicep tendon injury and also started a manual labor job(I quit lifting) that has killed my strength & lifts. Maintained by weight through a meh diet, so:
On 8/4/11: 5'7"(still I know), 173 lbs, 20-24% bf, fairly weak

I have struggled with the issue of whether to:

A)Cut to 10-12% BF before adding mass again.
Pros:
-Seems to be universally agreed upon that starting 10-12(maybe 10-15%) will allow optimal mass gains going forward. By optimal, I mean the highest ratio of muscle to fat possible.
-Somewhat agreed upon that starting here will prevent you from adding fat(which ties into the 1st pro)
-You look super sexy.

Cons:
-Spend more time bouncing between bulking & cutting & thus changing your diet, as to not reach a high bf% before cutting again
-You will lose at least some strength, and the amount is widely debated and will depend on genetics, form, current lifts, bf%, etc.
-You will miss out on the potential for novice/beginner strength gains assuming you already do not fall into that 10-12%(or close to it) and you are a beginner/novice.
-Lifting form can deteriorate with strength loss.
-Potential to lose LBM even if diet is really well followed

B)Maintain my current BF% & continue to push for all possible linear gains I have left as a novice. When my progress slows, add a small calorie surplus
Pros:
-Get to stay a bit stronger during process
-Take advantage of all possible gains
-Less wasted time fluctuating diet(in the immediate future)
-Shouldn't have a problem dropping into a mid teen range of bf%
-Can always cut down to 10-12% later on if so desired

Cons:
-Less than optimal gains(fat:muscle ratio is higher)
-More prone to regaining fat later on
-Don't get to look super sexy until I make a final cut

I don't want to drag this on, and will definitely deserve it's own thread. Some of my points on both sides can be strengthened, weakened, or even maybe refuted.

I've done a lot of research on both sides, and it comes down that everyone needs to make their own decision. Option B will make me the happiest now & in the future, so I'm going that route. I like it, because I can always roll back to Option A with little side effect.

Without further ado:

[trufloridagator]

All lift entries will include work sets & not warm up sets.

7/18/11
LBBS(Low Bar Back Squat):
3x5x135

Bench:
95x5

Gravitron CUs(Chin ups):
-15x100(assisted)
-11x100
-10x100

7/20/11
Press:
3x5x65

DL(Deadlift):
5x175

7/25/11
LBBS:
3x5x145

Bench:
3x5x105

Gravitron PUs:
15x120(assited)
12x120
10x120

7/29/11
LBBS:
3x5x155

Press:
3x5x70

Gravitron CUs:
15x100
12x100
10x100

8/1/11:
Front Squat:
3x5x95

Bench:
3x5x115

DL:
5x185

[trufloridagator]

-Restarting SS:
Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans

Workouts A and B alternate on 3 non-consecutive days per week.

Doing CU or PUs instead of PCs.

-Begin eating maintenance level calories

8/3/11
LBBS:
3x5x165

Press:
3x5x75

Negative Pulls
-6 singles

[LeafUF]

Good stuff TFG.

When choosing between option A or B I guess you need to really decide what your ideal body composition will be and how you want to achieve it. If you want to get to 12% now you need to lose 20 pounds, no small achievement. So, assuming you make not LBM gains during your cut that puts you back at 150 but probably looking pretty good.

Now if you want to be a bit bigger once leaning out it would probably be easier to put the muscle on now and then lose the 20 pounds down the road. You will eventually need to lose that weight if you want to be 12% it just may take longer to add on the size you want if you cut first.

[Dreamliner]

tru, I may be in a minority around here but I just don't believe you have to bulk-and-cut at all. I'll have my son's story up on my blog as early as Monday. It may be enlightening for you.

[trufloridagator]

tru, I may be in a minority around here but I just don't believe you have to bulk-and-cut at all. I'll have my son's story up on my blog as early as Monday. It may be enlightening for you.

I know, we discussed a lot & I threw the pros/cons back & forth. I have threads on Lyle's forums, SS forum, another forum I highly respect. It boils down to, I'm still a very novice, weak lifter, so I'm going to take advantage of the progression I can get under SS for one last time, while at maintenance & then a small surplus if needed. I could actually lose bf%, keep it the same, or a small gain if I eat well, so not worried about it. We can discuss further in another thread that should certainly be a mainstay of this forum. At worst, you can guys can laugh at me and use me as a guinea pig, although it would be silly to be results oriented about 1 guy who already has used up his optimal timeframe on SS before prior to injury, but I still think it's the best program for me ATT. I'm not quite fat enough to warrant doing SS at a deficit. All in all, I like that I can ALWAYS go with the cut option later down the road. Let's save this for another thread.

[trufloridagator]

7/4/11
Food:
2424 kcals, 100% (of maintenance)
fat: 89.50g
protein: 202.00g
carbs: 210.00g

[Dreamliner]

I know, we discussed a lot & I threw the pros/cons back & forth. I have threads on Lyle's forums, SS forum, another forum I highly respect. It boils down to, I'm still a very novice, weak lifter, so I'm going to take advantage of the progression I can get under SS for one last time, while at maintenance & then a small surplus if needed. I could actually lose bf%, keep it the same, or a small gain if I eat well, so not worried about it. We can discuss further in another thread that should certainly be a mainstay of this forum. At worst, you can guys can laugh at me and use me as a guinea pig, although it would be silly to be results oriented about 1 guy who already has used up his optimal timeframe on SS before prior to injury, but I still think it's the best program for me ATT. I'm not quite fat enough to warrant doing SS at a deficit. All in all, I like that I can ALWAYS go with the cut option later down the road. Let's save this for another thread.

By all means continue SS. Strength and body recomposition are by no means mutually-exclusive. Indeed, aiming for strength should help you shed fat. Rippetoe is simply mistaken if he's arguing that the novice must eat to gain weight in order to gain overall strength. For one thing, because you appear to be young, and you say you're relatively untrained, you should become the happy recipient of some 'juvenile muscle growth' without overeating, just like my son did.

I'm providing input because you seem to be asking for guidance. If you are currently 22-24% bodyfat, that puts you in the range of the average American woman. If you eat in such a way as to add still more bodyfat, you're going to be verging on the bodyfat composition of an obese woman. Is that what you want ?

In any case, just holding where you are in your eating, and working on your strength, would be the 'least bad' of the bad scenarios. That is a live option for you.

Now, if you are not going to establish

[trufloridagator]

I thought we could take this to another thread, it certainly deserves its own, but I'll bite one last time.

Rip does not argue that you must eat above maintenance to gain strength. He recommends overweight guys eat at a small deficit or at maintenance - workouts. Certain trainees have a place for GOMAD, but that doesn't mean you eat a 1k surplus/day(although it could be good for certain trainees, like my 16 yo bro who can't gain weight). GOMAD is an easy way to get a lot of protein & a lot of calories IF needed. And finally he recommends eating at maintenance if appropriate. He's no different than the consensus in that regard, he gets misinterpreted because of mentions of GFH & GOMAD for certain trainees. Of course Rip does throw around those cool words because he's in the business to sell his product. He is certainly no expert on weight loss for intermediate to advanced trainees.

If I'm eating at maintenance, I'm not going to go up in BF%, at my age I could have some potential to even swap some BF for some LBM. When I add a surplus, my P ratio isn't going to be bad enough to where I'm adding more BF than I'm adding LBM & my BF% won't go up unless I'm LOL bad with my diet.

[Dreamliner]

I thought we could take this to another thread, it certainly deserves its own, but I'll bite one last time.

Rip does not argue that you must eat above maintenance to gain strength. He recommends overweight guys eat at a small deficit or at maintenance - workouts. Certain trainees have a place for GOMAD, but that doesn't mean you eat a 1k surplus/day(although it could be good for certain trainees, like my 16 yo bro who can't gain weight). GOMAD is an easy way to get a lot of protein & a lot of calories IF needed. And finally he recommends eating at maintenance if appropriate. He's no different than the consensus in that regard, he gets misinterpreted because of mentions of GFH & GOMAD for certain trainees. Of course Rip does throw around those cool words because he's in the business to sell his product. He is certainly no expert on weight loss for intermediate to advanced trainees.

If I'm eating at maintenance, I'm not going to go up in BF%, at my age I could have some potential to even swap some BF for some LBM. When I add a surplus, my P ratio isn't going to be bad enough to where I'm adding more BF than I'm adding LBM & my BF% won't go up unless I'm LOL bad with my diet.

Hell, I think Rip is wrong about GOMAD for anyone. But that's just me.

And yes, I agree that maintenance will not have you gaining fat and may even have you losing a little.

Carry on. :wink:

[trufloridagator]

7/5/11
Food:
2771 kcals, 114% (of maintenance)
Monthly avg: 2500 kcals
fat: 91g
protein: 182g
carbs: 315g

Lifts:
LBBS
3x5x175(+10)

Bench
3x5x120(+5)

DL
3x5x195(+10)

[trufloridagator]

7/6/11
2400(99%)
fat: 77.00g
protein: 152.00g
carbs: 260.00g

7/7/11
2571(106%)
fat: 101.70g
protein: 171.64g
carbs: 236.75g

7/8/11
2475(102%)
fat: 69.57g
protein: 209.72g
carbs: 258.85g

Lifts:
LBBS
3x5x185(+10)
(Set #2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q7g3UlDY3E
-Depth is meh, but I have always gone a bit too deep in the past(not that that's really an issue), so over correcting a bit.

Press:
3x5x80(+5)

DB Rows:
3x5x25
-minor change to programming, different pulling exercise, since negative pulls are annoying me a bit.

[trufloridagator]

7/11/11
LBBS:
3x5x195(+10)
-bar speed is slowing down a bit. Fixed my form a bit, knees were going out a bit too much in the above video. Sitting back a bit helped.

Bench:
3x5x125(+5)

DL:
5x205(+10)

[trufloridagator]

7/13/11
LBBS:
3x5x205(+10)
-Maybe 5 lb jumps from here, but form is solid.

Press:
3x5x85(+5)

DB Rows:
3x5x30(+5)

[trufloridagator]

7/16/11
-Overall really tired from staying up a lot this week so far with my newborn, definitely affected my lifts a bit last night.

LBBS:
5x210(+5)
4x210
3x210
-All the rep misses were slight form misses, but now that the weight is getting a bit heavy, need to make sure form is really good. Repeating weight

Bench:
5x130(+5)
4x130
3x130
-2 form misses, and 1 missed rep after implementing some more power lifting, better form vs standard, weak bench form. Wore my ass out too, but should help me a lot going forward in a lift that has been very weak most often. Will repeat weight

DL:
5x215(+10)
-Wanted to do some video here to check form, but felt pretty fine overall.

[Dreamliner]

Looks like you're making steady progress!

[trufloridagator]

7/18/11

LBBS:
3x5x210(repeat)
-Form is very meh. Need to sit back more & activate the hams & glutes more. Video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBycxgLQDM0

Press:
5x87.5(+2.5)
4x87.5
4x87.5
-missed 2 reps & back is arched a bit too much. Repeat

DB Rows:
3x5x35(+5)

[trufloridagator]

LBBS:
5x215(+5)
4x215
4x215
-Couple reps where form isn't very good for those misses, and I don't think I've corrected sitting back. Definitely need to repeat, might need a 10-20% reset to work on some form.

Bench:
5x130(Repeat)
4x130
3x130
-Hit all the reps, but have some form misses. Still working on the new powerlifting type form, and even thought I'm getting a great setup, I lose tightness in 1 of my shoulder/scapula areas and get super weak in one arm. Repeat.

DL:
5x225(+10)
-Form felt really good, even though it's starting to get a bit heavy. Probably 1 more 10lb jump.

[Dreamliner]

Yep, your squat form changed significantly going from 185 to 210. Rip probably wouldn't like it but you're certainly increasing depth.

[Dreamliner]

BTW. the rest of us having been using the 'Day One' thread to periodically update our workouts.

[LeafUF]

BTW. the rest of us having been using the 'Day One' thread to periodically update our workouts.

What a great thread. I need to get in there and start doing that again. Plan on hitting the gym a little later today, as good a time as any.

[trufloridagator]

7/25/11
-Went with a morning workout due to work schedule. Meh

LBBS:
3x5x190(~10% reset for form)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvFiiG2OTdk
-Definitely pretty deep now & sitting back is a bit better. Trying to stay tighter. Probably need to control the decent a bit more.

Press:
3x5x80(~10% reset for form)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P35OJeECS4
-Rep 4(missed 1 lol) is a bit too curve. That 1st set I definitely don't do a good job of staying tight. Set 2 looks decent.

DB Rows:
3x5x35(accidental repeat)

[StrangeGator]

I thought this would be an interesting thread, being that I'm at a point where I'm working my ass off and I'm not really sure what my objective is. I achieved almost everything I set out to achieve over the last 18 months; Lost weight, added strength and definition, improved cardiovascular endurance. I'm in outstanding shape for my age (53) and I love working out. I just don't know if I'm doing the right kind of workout, mainly because I don't have any goals.

Possibilities;
Get stronger just to be stronger
Get stronger specifically for what I do at the dojo
Build muscle mass
Build muscle definition
Get down to single digit fat composition

I'd like to know what other people are doing and why. Maybe that will give me some ideas.

[trufloridagator]

I thought this would be an interesting thread, being that I'm at a point where I'm working my ass off and I'm not really sure what my objective is. I achieved almost everything I set out to achieve over the last 18 months; Lost weight, added strength and definition, improved cardiovascular endurance. I'm in outstanding shape for my age (53) and I love working out. I just don't know if I'm doing the right kind of workout, mainly because I don't have any goals.

Possibilities;
Get stronger just to be stronger
Get stronger specifically for what I do at the dojo
Build muscle mass
Build muscle definition
Get down to single digit fat composition

I'd like to know what other people are doing and why. Maybe that will give me some ideas.

I think SS or a similar program would work really well for you depending on where your strength levels are. Compound lifts will make you really well rounded strength wise & will make your core very strong. Building mass/def/bf% is just going to be a product of your diet. If you don't have a history doing the lifts associated with these type of programs, it would be a good place to start.

What are all of your stats(bw, bf%, etc.), lifts at?

[trufloridagator]

7/28/11

LBBS:
3x5x190(Repeat)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTN70s13Poc
-Still working on the form a lot, getting a bit better, but looks like 4ish loose reps where my knees/decent isn't very controlled. Sporadic training/life issues are probably a contributor at this point. Probably a 5lb jump next just being careful not to go too high without fixing form.

Bench:
3x5x130(repeat)
-powerlifting form finally felt comfortable. Kind of heavy. Always been a weak area for me partially due to past injuries.

DL:
5x230(+5)
-fairly heavy but I felt like form was good. Still need to get someone to film this since my recording options alone are kind of limited.

[deviation]

Good luck with SS, personally i didn't like it. It's very good for people starting out thus the name. Really does teach you alot.

Your form on the squats look so much better than normal people starting out. Yeah, not sure why people don't do more logs here. Maybe i should sometime when i do another log @ bb.com i'll just copy and paste.

This place does need more logs.

[trufloridagator]

I have done SS before which is why my square are decent :)

I'm a form nit though, but form can still improve while making reasonable jumps.

[trufloridagator]

9/1/11

LBBS:
3x5x195(+5)

Bench:
3x5x135(+5)

DL:
5x235(+5)

[trufloridagator]

9/5/11

LBBS:
3x5x195(repeat)
-just some form work

Press:
3x5x85(+5)
-probably will repeat to work on some form here.

DB Rows:
3x5x40(+5)

[malscott]

:grin: Sheesh-I pulled a hammy just reading this stuff...(note to self: warm up and stretch before reading GC!)

[Dreamliner]

:grin: Sheesh-I pulled a hammy just reading this stuff...(note to self: warm up and stretch before reading GC!)

Stretch AFTERWARDS. Do a dynamic warmup beforehand. :wink:

[trufloridagator]

Stretch AFTERWARDS. Do a dynamic warmup beforehand. :wink:

Yeah, I do shoulder dislocations & am working quadruped extension/rotations, bench t-spine extensions to work on my posture, spine curvature, back extensions on a foam roller. Starting to do the warrior lunges as well.

Overhead pressing can be a bit bad if you don't have your spine in decent shape, don't think mine is, might even have a bit of hyper lordosis, which I'm gonna have my chiro/ART guy look at.

[Dreamliner]

Yeah, I do shoulder dislocations & am working quadruped extension/rotations, bench t-spine extensions to work on my posture, spine curvature, back extensions on a foam roller. Starting to do the warrior lunges as well.

Overhead pressing can be a bit bad if you don't have your spine in decent shape, don't think mine is, might even have a bit of hyper lordosis, which I'm gonna have my chiro/ART guy look at.

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. As far as T-spine mobility, do you mean kyphosis ? It's a rounded upper back, basically. I've had to work fairly hard to correct mine.

Two unconventional methods that have helped that (and forward head carriage) are wall-supported handstands and walking around with a light dumbbell plate on top of my head. This along with the conventional methods like bending backwards over a foam roller, doing rows, etc.

If you do mean kyphosis, barbell squats don't help it one little bit. So, you may have to spend extra time working to correct it. Another method that you can actually incorporate into your routine is to hold the last rep of your military press overhead for five seconds. It provides a nice iso-contraction for the external rotators and upper back, etc.

[trufloridagator]

Sounds like you're doing all the right things. As far as T-spine mobility, do you mean kyphosis ? It's a rounded upper back, basically. I've had to work fairly hard to correct mine.

Two unconventional methods that have helped that (and forward head carriage) are wall-supported handstands and walking around with a light dumbbell plate on top of my head. This along with the conventional methods like bending backwards over a foam roller, doing rows, etc.

If you do mean kyphosis, barbell squats don't help it one little bit. So, you may have to spend extra time working to correct it. Another method that you can actually incorporate into your routine is to hold the last rep of your military press overhead for five seconds. It provides a nice iso-contraction for the external rotators and upper back, etc.

Yeah, kyph & hyper lord are the same thing I believe, or have similar results.

I talked with my Chiro & ART guy, he doesn't think there is any issue to worry about, but still need to work on mobility nonetheless.

I actually squeeze my OH Press for about 5 seconds, so that's good to hear. Need to focus on squeezing up a bit more as well.

[trufloridagator]

9/8/11

LBBS:
3x5x200(+5)

Bench:
3x5x140(+5)

DL:
5x240(+5)
-was pretty heavy & not sure how form was so video+repeat

9/11/11

LBBS:
3x5x205(+5)
-Probably like 3-4 loose reps I wasn't happy with

Press:
3x5x85(repeat)
-form was goot

DB Rows:
3x5x45(+5)

9/13/11

LBBS:
3x5x205(repeat)

Bench:
5x142.5(+2.5)
4x142.5 - didn't really miss a rep but form deteriorated bad on last rep
3x142.5 - missed 5 + ugly form on 4.

DL:
5x240(repeat)
-gah rep 5 is bad. Last rep at the end of a long, tiring day & just lost focus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyR6R10Eu2s

[Dreamliner]

Yeah, kyph & hyper lord are the same thing I believe, or have similar results.

I talked with my Chiro & ART guy, he doesn't think there is any issue to worry about, but still need to work on mobility nonetheless.

I actually squeeze my OH Press for about 5 seconds, so that's good to hear. Need to focus on squeezing up a bit more as well.

Kyphosis - rounded upper back

Hyperlordosis - sway back

Both can be present but frequently are not.

[trufloridagator]

9/16/11

LBBS:
3x5x210(+5)
-Form was really good. Probably my best lifts here in a while after a jump.

Press:
3x5x87.5(+2.5)
-Warm ups were heavy so went to 2.5 jump.
-Form was pretty good although like 2 heavy reps where I let my shoulders fall behind my hips and a bit too curved.

DB Rows:
3x5x45(repeat)
-Could do more, but form would prob deteriorate a bit.

Cable Seated Row:
3x5x70:
-Pretty light but workin on form since I haven't done these a ton & doin the accessory for additional pulling to help my bench/scapula, right side tightness issues.

[trufloridagator]

9/19/11

LBBS:
3x5x215(+5)
-Couple of shaky reps, but just really tired from bad recovery weekend(lol Florida/Tennessee and my little guy).
-My breathing/endurance through the worksets are improving a lot, so my form isn't really getting bad come set 3. Managing to stay a lot tighter despite being tired.

Bench:
3x5x142.5(repeat)
-Form was kind of meh, but ok considering how squats went.

DB Rows:
3x5x45(repeat)
-Just workin the extra pulling and didn't feel like I had a solid DL in me.