How I Lost 13 lbs This Month

[chrisleakfan4life]

We can tell you what to eat all you want but if its stuff you dont like it wont stick and it will be pointless.

Dont worry about getting off track for a weekend, just get back on tomorrow.

So two questions:

Do you track what you eat when you are not taking a break with buds? Write it down, measure, weigh what you eat?

What do you like to eat?

Chicken

Fruit

Soup

Sandwiches

I'll have to become a bigger fruit and vegetable eater if i want to succeed. Starting tomorrow i'm gonna try a soup salad chicken and fruit diet, mixed in with some treadmill daily(60 minutes, 3.5 speed, get 3 1/2 miles in an hour). 1500 calorie diet.

The problem i have is if i don't eat something that is already pre-portioned i tend to over eat. When i have something like say a Lean Cuisine and i can see and calculate how many calories it is, i do a better job.

When i first started my diet, i ate a lot of lean cuisines and was having a lot of success. I haven't ate those in awhile simply because they are expensive.

[Dreamliner]

Eat whatever you like. Eat smaller portions. Eat slower. Consider intermittent fasting. Study after study has shown that people invariably underestimate the amount of calories they consume each day, often by up to 40%! If you're not losing, then you need to reduce calories further. Have faith that if you reduce calories that you WILL lose weight. We really don't need to eat as much as we do. Admittedly, it's hard to cut back because we are daily bombarded with the temptation to eat.

[LeafUF]

Lots of truth in what Dream said, you really can eat anything. Sure there are choices that have better calorie make up and therefore make it easier to eat fewer calories. And that is what you should stick to when portion control is difficult.

Some suggestions:

Buy some tupperware

Buy a food scale

Find bulk deals on chicken breast (grocery store or warehouse club)

Consider frozen veggies anything you like will do

Now take a day of the week like Sunday and cook up enough to get you through the week. Put a chicken breast and a lot of veggies in a tupperware and save them for when you need them then heat em up.

[LeafUF]

A few other things based on what you like.

Fruit is fine, all fruit, I eat apples, bananas, oranges all the time. Avoid fruit juices and dried fruit though.

Soup, if you know how to make your own its better than the canned stuff just because the cans are loaded with sodium but they are easily portion controlled. Just remember that they are usually 2 servings per can and stay away from the creamy fattier ones.

I eat Turkey sandwiches almost everyday. Pick lean meats, use mustard instead of mayo and give whole wheat breads a try.

Another thing I do is eat a lot of eggs. Buy a bunch and hard boil them for snacks or make them in the morning for breakfast.

[chrisleakfan4life]

Well today i had the following:

Breakfast:

Jimmy Dean "De-light" breakfast bowl. Low Calorie(under 300), uses turkey bacon and low fat cheese.

Lunch:

Lean Cuisine Chicken Fettucine.


Dinner:
Charbroiled chicken patty with bbq sauce(its around 180 calories for the patty)
A few apple slices

After work:
Bowl of Campbells Chicken noodle soup(low sodium, 60 calories per serving, 2.5 servings per can).

Had some home work to today tonight(get home around 10:45 pm, get up at 6:45 am for school, can't afford 1 hour on treadmill especially since i had homework).

I was well within my 1500 calorie limit for the day, even a little under.

I bought some lean cuisine foods, some Jimmy Dean De-light breakfast sandwiches to heat up in the morning(although i should watch the sodium). I also bought some apples and carmel which are already pre-portioned and 70 calories per pouch.

So my meal plan for the next 4 days:

Breakfast:

Jimmy Dean Breakfast Sandwich(less than 300 calories)

Lunch:

Lean Cuisine, most are less than 300 calories

Snack:

Apples with Carmel

Dinner:

Sandwich, soup, salad, or a mixture of the three.

Thoughts?

Also how much sodium should i stay at?

[chrisleakfan4life]

A few other things based on what you like.

Fruit is fine, all fruit, I eat apples, bananas, oranges all the time. Avoid fruit juices and dried fruit though.

Soup, if you know how to make your own its better than the canned stuff just because the cans are loaded with sodium but they are easily portion controlled. Just remember that they are usually 2 servings per can and stay away from the creamy fattier ones.

I eat Turkey sandwiches almost everyday. Pick lean meats, use mustard instead of mayo and give whole wheat breads a try.

Another thing I do is eat a lot of eggs. Buy a bunch and hard boil them for snacks or make them in the morning for breakfast.

For my sandwiches i use the Sara Lee wheat bread thats 45 calories a slice. I usually throw on some turkey(usually the deli style oscar meyer, not the processed unhealthy crap) and some mustard(hate mayo).

[Dreamliner]

Leaf -

I was going to say that my 100 reps deadlift and backyard bag workouts are actually a function of my laziness. You know that Wendler recommends a Boring But Big (BBB) template. Mine is a More Boring Than Boring But Big template. I like to get my main lift and cardio portion over with.

Right now, only bench press day gets as many as three exercises. After bench press I usually superset pushups and inverted rows or dumbbell chest-supported rows. Again, I try to do more pulling reps than pressing reps.

[LeafUF]

That's a funny way of putting it. My workouts are definitely longer as I do a lot of the assistance work.

[chrisleakfan4life]

bump

[Dreamliner]

bump

Have you considered intermittent fasting ? Some folks think it's easier than cutting calories. They fast once or twice a week and then eat what they want (withing reason) the rest of the week.

[chrisleakfan4life]

Have you considered intermittent fasting ? Some folks think it's easier than cutting calories. They fast once or twice a week and then eat what they want (withing reason) the rest of the week.

I don't like fasting, especially with school and work, i don't think it would be a good idea honestly.

[Miked198324]

Boxing and Martial arts (BJJ/Kickboxing) classes have really changed my life lost about 40 pounds in the last year.

[Dreamliner]

I don't like fasting, especially with school and work, i don't think it would be a good idea honestly.

I'm not arguing that fasting is necessary, but why don't you think it would be a good idea ? I've found that it gives me more energy and sharpens my focus. And the busier you are, the easier it is to go without eating.

[Dreamliner]

"Use the gym to build muscle. Use your diet to lose weight":

http://www.johnbarban.com

[LeafUF]

Im getting ready to hit the gym right now

[chrisleakfan4life]

I'm not arguing that fasting is necessary, but why don't you think it would be a good idea ? I've found that it gives me more energy and sharpens my focus. And the busier you are, the easier it is to go without eating.

I don't think it would be the same for me. Plus i would have to fast for almost 4 days in a 7 week period to burn 7,000 calories(aka 2 pounds).

Who's to say my body doesn't store the food as fat after i fast and eat.

[LeafUF]

Uhh that's not how it works.

[Dreamliner]

I don't think it would be the same for me. Plus i would have to fast for almost 4 days in a 7 week period to burn 7,000 calories(aka 2 pounds).

Who's to say my body doesn't store the food as fat after i fast and eat.

You do what's for you. But if you only fasted one day a week that's a 15% calorie reduction. And no, your body will not store fat in response to calorie reduction. That's an old wive's tale. Remember, society is programmed to program you to eat! eat! and eat some more!

[slmdLS1]

i had a goal weight to get to by this morning. I was 2-2.5lbs away yesterday morning when i weighed. I had 8oz raisin bran, 8oz of milk, and a 8oz shot of calcium fortified OJ. Then had a salad for lunch and another salad for dinner @ 4:30pm with a protein shake. Woke up this morning 1/2 under my goal for about a 2-3 pound difference in a day. I dont think i can fast for an extended time yet, so i may try to have days where i only eat salad for lunch and dinner.

question for you guys....I've noticed when i cut my solid food calories i am still up there in liquid calories. the only things i drink are what i just listed, OJ, Milk(FF), and water. That's it, but the protein mix, milk, and OJ are around 500 calories out of my daily 1700(now) limit. good or bad? one would think that's good, right? liquid calories like those listed are easy to burn, right? Yesterday my liquid calories(2 scoops of protein shake mix is 280) were 628 of my total 1338 calories.

[Dreamliner]

i had a goal weight to get to by this morning. I was 2-2.5lbs away yesterday morning when i weighed. I had 8oz raisin bran, 8oz of milk, and a 8oz shot of calcium fortified OJ. Then had a salad for lunch and another salad for dinner @ 4:30pm with a protein shake. Woke up this morning 1/2 under my goal for about a 2-3 pound difference in a day. I dont think i can fast for an extended time yet, so i may try to have days where i only eat salad for lunch and dinner.

question for you guys....I've noticed when i cut my solid food calories i am still up there in liquid calories. the only things i drink are what i just listed, OJ, Milk(FF), and water. That's it, but the protein mix, milk, and OJ are around 500 calories out of my daily 1700(now) limit. good or bad? one would think that's good, right? liquid calories like those listed are easy to burn, right? Yesterday my liquid calories(2 scoops of protein shake mix is 280) were 628 of my total 1338 calories.

Calories are calories, solid or liquid. I know I sound like a broken record, but if you're serious about losing fat, drop the protein shake.

[slmdLS1]

Calories are calories, solid or liquid. I know I sound like a broken record, but if you're serious about losing fat, drop the protein shake.

not a broken record at all, i appreciate the insight. the main reason i try the shake is it does feel like i get a few more reps on the weights when i started it, but i was trying to balance my calorie intake with more protein and less carbs/fats without busting for chicken breasts/fish every other day at the store.

edit: you think i'd drop weight/fat significantly faster without the shake? (I only do the shake 3-4 days a week on workout days to offset the chicken/fish diet for protein the other days)

this is sort of what im going off of...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j301/slmdls1/nutrition.gif

[Dreamliner]

not a broken record at all, i appreciate the insight. the main reason i try the shake is it does feel like i get a few more reps on the weights when i started it, but i was trying to balance my calorie intake with more protein and less carbs/fats without busting for chicken breasts/fish every other day at the store.

I do understand the rationale. I'm just the forumer who believes that protein needs are greatly exaggerated, that it's ALL about reducing calories and that mechanical stress (strength-training) is by far the primary factor in muscle growth/preservation.

As an aside, Dr. Ellington Darden has seen possibly thousands lose impressive amounts of fat on low-protein, high-carb diets. And these subjects typically gain muscle (albeit small amounts) at the same time.

[LeafUF]

Keep the protein shake. It is not going to hurt you. If you are remaining in a deficit a protein shake is a good choice when compared to so many other things you could be eating.

[LeafUF]

I would cut out the OJ and eat an orange instead. Leaves you feeling more full and usually has nothing added the way OJ does.

[Dreamliner]

Keep the protein shake. It is not going to hurt you. If you are remaining in a deficit a protein shake is a good choice when compared to so many other things you could be eating.

That's just the problem though. A protein shake, being that it's not necessary, only makes sustaining a calorie deficit harder. And there are still so-called fitness experts who argue that post-workout nutrition doesn't matter!

[LeafUF]

That's just the problem though. A protein shake, being that it's not necessary, only makes sustaining a calorie deficit harder. And there are still so-called fitness experts who argue that post-workout nutrition doesn't matter!

Harder than what? We can go back and forth on this a thousand times and it makes no difference as neither one of us is going to change the others mind.

I havent had a protein shake in weeks and I am taking in more calories per day than when I was. In my case when I am trying to put myself in a deficit using a protein shake makes it easier. There are advantages no matter how much protein you need in your diet.

[slmdLS1]

Dream, i should mention these shakes are in essence a daily 3-4pm snack prior to workout, not an after workout thing if that makes any difference. i try to average a 3000 calorie deficit a day, usually 1-2 days @ 4000/day and maybe one day less than 2500.

[LeafUF]

Also I am confused whether you meant to say post workout nutrition matters or not, I think you fall into the does not matter category but you say it does.

[LeafUF]

Dream, i should mention these shakes are in essence a daily 3-4pm snack prior to workout, not an after workout thing if that makes any difference. i try to average a 3000 calorie deficit a day, usually 1-2 days @ 4000/day and maybe one day less than 2500.

That is a huge freaking deficit, how you have any energy at all for the gym is mind boggling. But since you seem to be able to do it and it works keep it up. You might even be one of those who could do the Rapid Fatloss diet by Lyle McDonald. That is seriously hardcore.

[Dreamliner]

Harder than what? We can go back and forth on this a thousand times and it makes no difference as neither one of us is going to change the others mind.

I havent had a protein shake in weeks and I am taking in more calories per day than when I was. In my case when I am trying to put myself in a deficit using a protein shake makes it easier. There are advantages no matter how much protein you need in your diet.

Harder than had you not included an unnecessary food item (protein shake) that probably consists of 300 calories or possibly be more. When you're already down to a daily allotment of 1,500, that's 20% of your daily intake.

And just as an aside, as an example of how confused even the researchers are, they almost invariably calculate protein needs based on bodyweight. But why does bodyfat need protein ?

Also, if I didn't like back-and-forth, there's no way I'd be wasting my life on Gatorcountry. :wink:

[LeafUF]

My protein shake with water 120 calories. Not at all a problem in a deficit. Same as two servings of turkey, 4 or so oz of chicken breast.

Also, I calculate protein reqs on LBM. Like most who know what they are doing now do.

[slmdLS1]

That is a huge freaking deficit, how you have any energy at all for the gym is mind boggling. But since you seem to be able to do it and it works keep it up. You might even be one of those who could do the Rapid Fatloss diet by Lyle McDonald. That is seriously hardcore.

no that's including my gym workouts(minimum 4 miles or 60 minutes on the treadmill + weights), but on my off days form the gym i swim for 2 hours. recently my daily calories have been in the 1500 calorie range so widening that deficit has gotten easier a bit.

i fall sleep quickly nowadays too! lol

[Dreamliner]

Dream, i should mention these shakes are in essence a daily 3-4pm snack prior to workout, not an after workout thing if that makes any difference. i try to average a 3000 calorie deficit a day, usually 1-2 days @ 4000/day and maybe one day less than 2500.

Maybe I misunderstood, but if you're consuming 3000 or more calories a day, I can see why you wouldn't be losing weight. Didn't you mention that you had plateaued recently ?

[slmdLS1]

no dream, 3000 is probably my average deficit per day over the last few weeks. my intake is general is around 1500, with that large portion(~500) being the liquid stuff i listed. My thinking is that thats about 1000 calories a day of solid food my body has to digest, as im assuming the liquid stuff would be much easier/faster to digest.

[LeafUF]

no dream, 3000 is probably my average deficit per day over the last few weeks. my intake is general is around 1500, with that large portion(~500) being the liquid stuff i listed. My thinking is that thats about 1000 calories a day of solid food my body has to digest, as im assuming the liquid stuff would be much easier/faster to digest.

Easier/faster to digest is right. But that doesnt mean easier to burn off or that they count less than other calories.

The one thing they may be doing is actually a net loss as they probably require less energy to digest lowering the overall thermogenic effect of food. If that sounds too technical, basically your body requires energy to digest your food and usually that equals about 10% of whatever the calories you ate were.

[Dreamliner]

no dream, 3000 is probably my average deficit per day over the last few weeks. my intake is general is around 1500, with that large portion(~500) being the liquid stuff i listed. My thinking is that thats about 1000 calories a day of solid food my body has to digest, as im assuming the liquid stuff would be much easier/faster to digest.

I'm afraid I'm still confused. You have a BMR which is based on your bodyweight. Even for most men this is not much more than 2,000 calories. But 1,500 calories a day should certainly have you losing weight consistently, even rapidly, unless you're already skinny.

[slmdLS1]

I'm afraid I'm still confused. You have a BMR which is based on your body weight. Even for most men this is not much more than 2,000 calories. But 1,500 calories a day should certainly have you losing weight consistently, even rapidly, unless you're already skinny.

im down 29lbs in 6 weeks, don't get me wrong im consistently losing, but i do weigh everyday(knowing full well why you shouldn't but i do anyway just to observe). my BMR is around 2400. i was eating bad before and didn't realize it. I got up to 298, and was 269 this morning. my goal is 210-220 by December, 250 by the end of Sept....just to have a short and long term goal.

edit: although that Harris Benedict formula says I'd need 3100 or so calories a day to maintain my current weight, so maybe thats a deficit of 1500-1600 or so?

i think i may have figured where the confusion is, by "deficit" are you referring to "intake only" or overall deficit after burning calories? my guess is the correct way is using intake only for deficit, in which i've been at 800-1000 deficit daily....that clear it up?

[Dreamliner]

im down 29lbs in 6 weeks, don't get me wrong im consistently losing, but i do weigh everyday(knowing full well why you shouldn't but i do anyway just to observe). my BMR is around 2400. i was eating bad before and didn't realize it. I got up to 298, and was 269 this morning. my goal is 210-220 by December, 250 by the end of Sept....just to have a short and long term goal.

i think i may have figured where the confusion is, by "deficit" are you referring to "intake only" or overall deficit after burning calories? my guess is the correct way is using intake only for deficit, in which i've been at 800-1000 deficit daily....that clear it up?

Yes, that certainly does clear things up. And again, congrats on your outstanding progress!

[kkg8r]

I've really fallen in love with these weightlifting classes at my gym and have been going 2-3 times week for 3 weeks. I have gained weight - but look thinner and stronger. I've probably gained 2 pounds (I fluctuate daily, but this seems to be the average). Do you think that's muscle? How much muscle can you add in 3 weeks?

BTW, the class is all squats, bench press, etc for 3-5 minutes varying the timing. For example: Squats. We start down for 2 counts, up for 2 and do this 8 times, then down 3 up 1, down 1 up 3 and then singles and down & halfway up. We work most every body part this way.

[LeafUF]

In a novice or person returning to lifting after a long time off I guess its possible that you put on some new muscle. I wouldnt worry about weight so much as like you said you look thinner and stronger.

People who have been doing it for a long time are lucky to gain a pound of muscle in a month. That isnt the case for people just starting out.

[kkg8r]

Thanks Leaf. I thought that 2 was a bit much, but I was hoping that there was some sort of "new curve" that went with the weightlifting. I just bought a myoplex tape measure because of my tendency to fluctuate weight-wise. I had been weighing everyday and averaging the week to get a sense of progress. It's frustrating, my weight can swing 3-4 pounds day over day. It's usually 1-2 pound fluctuations each day.

I've been absolutely horrible this week. I had company in the city and we went out for some good NYC food. I may have eaten two weeks' worth of calories in 4 days. To top it off, I got a Keratin treatment yesterday and i cannot get my haor wet (even sweaty) until Fri afternoon. So I missed my class today. The good news is I can go friday and hit Pilates on Saturday, then a different weight class on Sunday. Then I'm off to an adult tennis "camp" for two days. That should right the ship!

[vanders]

if you guys are looking for it Flip and I found some! meaning part of your 13 pounds.....

back on the diet~ just something we need to do for ourselves

[Dreamliner]

Love the focus and dedication on this thread. More and more it seems like the leading determinant of health is weight control. Not how much or what kind of exercise. Not what kind of food you eat. Not the supplements or vitamins you take. Weight control.

[LeafUF]

Thanks Leaf. I thought that 2 was a bit much, but I was hoping that there was some sort of "new curve" that went with the weightlifting. I just bought a myoplex tape measure because of my tendency to fluctuate weight-wise. I had been weighing everyday and averaging the week to get a sense of progress. It's frustrating, my weight can swing 3-4 pounds day over day. It's usually 1-2 pound fluctuations each day.

I've been absolutely horrible this week. I had company in the city and we went out for some good NYC food. I may have eaten two weeks' worth of calories in 4 days. To top it off, I got a Keratin treatment yesterday and i cannot get my haor wet (even sweaty) until Fri afternoon. So I missed my class today. The good news is I can go friday and hit Pilates on Saturday, then a different weight class on Sunday. Then I'm off to an adult tennis "camp" for two days. That should right the ship!

There is definitely a new curve and it seems you might be reaping some of those benefits.

Good move on the tape measure too. Weighing every day is so tricky because we are never really at a set weight. Water retention and diet cause us to constantly fluctuate.

If I were in NYC for 4 days I might blow 4 weeks worth of calories getting in all the good food that I cant get down here in DC. So 2 weeks seems like a bargain to me.

[Dreamliner]

I know I posted the "Use the gym to build muscle. Use your diet to lose weight" article. That said, when I used the following template the excess pounds melted like hot butter without changing my diet. I mean, I was eating two PB&J sammiches a day and losing weight:

http://www.monkeybargym.com

[malligator]

Love the focus and dedication on this thread. More and more it seems like the leading determinant of health is weight control. Not how much or what kind of exercise. Not what kind of food you eat. Not the supplements or vitamins you take. Weight control.

I'd add flexibility to that. Having strength and muscle tone is great when you need it, but being flexible is something that affects you 24/7/365.

[Dreamliner]

I'd add flexibility to that. Having strength and muscle tone is great when you need it, but being flexible is something that affects you 24/7/365.

Candidly, I'm about to take a break from barbells and work on my mobility. It was a revelation when I tried some one-legged squats and the knee felt painful and creaky. So, for about a month at least, it's back to myofacial self-release, stretching and bodyweight exercises. They're more demanding anyway.

[chrisleakfan4life]

Well i figured i would chime back in with an update

I've basically been on a new diet the past 4-5 days, it basically consist of a Jimmy Dean breakfast Sandwich(the delight one that uses turkey based meats, low fat cheese etc) for breakfast and Lean Cuisine's for lunch and dinner.

About 10 days ago i was 208, a week ago i went out and played Beer Pong with my friend who was in town and hit 211.

Today ive dropped back back to 205(my lowest before was 205.8) im now 205.0 and close to finally getting over this small plateau of 205(hopefully ill be down to 204 tomorrow).

I haven't exercised much this week mostly because of school, but im finding that the Lean Cuisines work the best for me as i usually can eat 3-4 of them in a day and not feel hungry.

Anyway just wanted to give an update, things seem to be heading in the right track. Ive been on a 1200-1500 calories(at most) diet.

Eating frozen foods like those really allows me to keep track of calorie count.

[Dreamliner]

September is bodyweight exercise only (and implements training). Today I did my bag workout. Ten circuits in 22 minutes, or more than a minute longer than my previous best. I'm chalking it up to exercising a little earlier in the day. It was close to 95 out. The last one-third of the workout was on the edge of nausea.

Working on soft tissue and mobility a little more this month. Working out five days a week, Mon-Fri.

[chrisleakfan4life]

bump

[deebo65]

I lost weight this weekend. All I had to do was keep rewatching that pitiful game saturday. Everytime I watched it I lost my lunch... I now weigh 11lbs

[malligator]

I spent the 3-day weekend plus Friday in Vegas. I *think* I ate pretty well, but I *know* I drank like a fish. I still ended the week down 1 pound. I don't guess I can be too unhappy with that. It probably didn't hurt that I spent 12 hours on a motorcycle in 100F+ weather. That's a pretty intense workout in itself.

[Dreamliner]

BOLD EXPERIMENT: I'm taking a month off from my powerlifting template. And over the course of several months, my weight as crept up about ten pounds. Granted, I'd look silly-skinny to some of you, but it's too much weight for my tastes.

So, for the rest of this month I'm performing a template losing based on:

http://www.monkeybargym.com

Basically, I'm working out five days a week, Monday through Friday, and am alternating cardio and strength. So, one day I might push, pull and carry a 100lb bag across the backyard for twenty minutes or so, and the next day I might alternate upside-down wall-walking and tree-climbing for, say, ten sets. Also, I'll be doing plenty of leisurely walking and probably a little yardwork on weekends.

The BOLD part is to see if I lose weight WITHOUT changing my diet.

[Dreamliner]

Bored and dispatching various exercise myths;

Never squat below parallel - recent studies show that it's safer to squat below parallel *Provided that one can do so while maintaining a neutral spine.*

When squatting and lunging don't let the knee travel forward of the toes - one noted trainer, Vern Gambetta, has ventured that one of the reasons female athletes have so many ACL tears is because they rarely train their knees to support loads in the forward position.

The function of the traps is to elevate the shoulders - false, it is the glenoid muscles which do that. The traps pull the arms backwards. The reason that traps grow with shrugs is because they act as stabilizers when the shoulders are elevated.

Always do exercises through a full range of motion - there is a difference between the range through which you can move a weight and the range that your joint can comfortably go. And if you don't think you can work your pecs if you don't bring the bar to your chest, try this exercise: push your car around the block with outstretched arms. See if your pecs aren't sore the next day.

To maintain low back health, do rotational movements - are you sure you want to do that ? The lumbar spine is designed for stability and is only designed to rotate 11-13 degrees. It is the thoracic spine which is designed to rotate.

To burn bodyfat it is best to perform higher reps - recent studies show that lower reps are actually more effective.

[LeafUF]

http://www.asylum.com/2010/09/03/harris-interactive-healthday-survey-obese-people-bmi-weight/

Most obese Americans underestimate how fat they are.

A Harris Interactive / HealthDay survey asked 2,418 adults their height and weight, as well as if they thought they were of normal weight, overweight, obese or morbidly obese.

It turned out 30 percent of overweight people believe they are of normal size, 70 percent of obese people think they are just overweight and 39 percent of morbidly obese people classify themselves as being only overweight.

"While there are some people who have body images in line with their actual BMI [body mass index], for many people they are not, and this may be where part of the problem lies," said Regina Corso, vice president of Harris Poll Solutions.

We blame the glossy magazines. If they were doing a better job of airbrushing our celebrities to even more unrealistically skinny dimensions, maybe this wouldn't be such a problem.

[Dreamliner]

Only slightly off-topic, it's surveys like these that serve to blow a gaping hole in the notion that Americans in general suffer from low self-esteem.

[LeafUF]

Ha.

[slmdLS1]

alright. i assume i have hit a pretty bad plateau. i just cant shake it. Every now and then, usually once every 7-10 days, I'll let my calories go slightly over my limit. I lowered my limit recently from 1800 to 1700 and have limited those protein shakes. i have kept the same workout schedule, 3-4 days a week with an hour cardio and 30 minutes on the weights. I have been within 2 lbs of when i started the month. I try ti use monthly goals as motivation, last one was 270lbs by Sept 1st, now its 250lbs by October 1st and in 13 days I'm still hovering around 269lbs. I even cut my calories drastically last week to around 1300-1400 a couple days in hopes of "shocking my system" and nothing. Friday, i ate 1200 calories, when i got in the gym, i went 8 miles on the treadmill instead of 4, and still hit the weights....that workout alone was worth around 1500 calories or so, and yet.....still hovering.

[Dreamliner]

Please don't construe this as an attack, but people, myself included, are notorious for two things: (1) underestimating how many calories we consume and (2) overestimating the calories we burn during exercise. Could either possibly be the case ? I'm asking because there is no magical process wherein you won't lose weight if you're burning off more calories than you take in.

To the latter, out of fairness, exercise machines cannot be trusted to give you an accurate reading on calorie burn. Whatever the machines are telling you, cut it in half.

[malligator]

alright. i assume i have hit a pretty bad plateau. i just cant shake it. Every now and then, usually once every 7-10 days, I'll let my calories go slightly over my limit. I lowered my limit recently from 1800 to 1700 and have limited those protein shakes. i have kept the same workout schedule, 3-4 days a week with an hour cardio and 30 minutes on the weights. I have been within 2 lbs of when i started the month. I try ti use monthly goals as motivation, last one was 270lbs by Sept 1st, now its 250lbs by October 1st and in 13 days I'm still hovering around 269lbs. I even cut my calories drastically last week to around 1300-1400 a couple days in hopes of "shocking my system" and nothing. Friday, i ate 1200 calories, when i got in the gym, i went 8 miles on the treadmill instead of 4, and still hit the weights....that workout alone was worth around 1500 calories or so, and yet.....still hovering.

I applaud your motivation and dedication so PLEASE don't take this as an insult...but are you sure what you're doing is healthy? The numbers you're posting here sound dangerous. A 269 pound guy eating 1200 calories and then doing a 1500 calorie workout? I don't know how you didn't pass out...or at least bonk. I've been known to do an hour of plyo on a day I eat 1500 calories and by the time I'm done I am useless and damn near about to pass out...and I weight 222.

Believe me, I know why you're doing what you're doing. I was 290 when I started losing weight in February. I wanted the weight gone...NOW. However, you have be healthy. Is there some reason you can't take an extra 6 months to lose the weight? I've been at it 7.5 months and I still have months to go. In the big scheme of things a few months is nothing compared to the rest of your life.

[slmdLS1]

Please don't construe this as an attack, but people, myself included, are notorious for two things: (1) underestimating how many calories we consume and (2) overestimating the calories we burn during exercise. Could either possibly be the case ? I'm asking because there is no magical process wherein you won't lose weight if you're burning off more calories than you take in.

To the latter, out of fairness, exercise machines cannot be trusted to give you an accurate reading on calorie burn. Whatever the machines are telling you, cut it in half.

well, i have been pretty on point about measuring cups/portions correctly and reading labels. My meals are planned out usually a day in advance, with much more fruits and veggies. I'm probably 95% sure that's not it. I somehow doubt that a brisk walk/jog for ~130 minutes only burns 600 calories. I tend to do trust the treadmill as its been about on par with calorie burn charts I've seen, and the pedometer i tested it against. Of course there is a margin of error there, but from what I've seen, its been very slim.

It just seems to me like my body will drop weight, and then stabalize, and during this i feel better, you can almost feel your bodyfat change with your metabolism ramping, and then it waits a while to drop some more.... i dunno.

I applaud your motivation and dedication so PLEASE don't take this as an insult...but are you sure what you're doing is healthy? The numbers you're posting here sound dangerous. A 269 pound guy eating 1200 calories and then doing a 1500 calorie workout? I don't know how you didn't pass out...or at least bonk. I've been known to do an hour of plyo on a day I eat 1500 calories and by the time I'm done I am useless and damn near about to pass out...and I weight 222.

Believe me, I know why you're doing what you're doing. I was 290 when I started losing weight in February. I wanted the weight gone...NOW. However, you have be healthy. Is there some reason you can't take an extra 6 months to lose the weight? I've been at it 7.5 months and I still have months to go. In the big scheme of things a few months is nothing compared to the rest of your life.

I don't take it as an insult, i appreciate your guys/gals input just like the rest of us here in this thread looking for advice/tips.

I had plenty of water on hand, and kept close attention to my sweating. I've been doing 4 miles 3 days a week for a few weeks now. Friday night, the WVU/Marshall game was on ESPN in front of the treadmill, so i just said "what the hell, lets see if i can do another 4 albeit this 4 was at a lil slower pace...". The 1200 calorie intake was just for Friday, but i have lowered it to a safe level around 1700 over 3/2 meals/snacks.

I'm ok with taking my time. Most recommend losing 2 pounds per week, i just feel like i can do better than that, setting the bar a little higher.

I lost 60 pounds in 6 weeks, years ago so i know the stress level it puts on my body, and that was working 5 days a week at delicious Chick-Fil-A(Free Food!). I'm doing it this time very different than then.

[malligator]

If nothing else I'd be afraid of losing weight too rapidly for my skin to shrink. I'd hate to work my ass off losing weight and then still be self-conscious about excess skin.

[Solari]

When I get a chance I'll explain how I lost a lil over 100lbs in 6-7 months not too long ago. All done with a pretty simple tweak to my diet and about 25 minutes of hill walkin' 3-4 times a week. It was a series of hills so it's like an interval workout which actually burns more than a straight up one.

For proof just ask the GC staff or Growl. ;)

Ray

[gatorknights]

I lost 13 pounds saturday afternoon in the stadium (kidding, sort of). Man was it hot.

[G8RBrave]

What do you guys think about doing cardio in "sets"? I've recently tinkered around with doing a mile, then doing 10-15 minutes of abs, another mile, then 10-15 minutes of abs, then another mile.

I just get so bored on the treadmill for 3-4 miles, so it's nice to break it up. Am I hurting myself by doing that though?

[slmdLS1]

Well, i went with a 2 mile/30mins on the weights workout Monday and back to 4mile/30min weights on Tuesday with no significant change in diet. Down about 5 pounds since Sunday as of this morning. I think i may not be getting enough rest though, at 5-6 hours of sleep a night.

[LeafUF]

What do you guys think about doing cardio in "sets"? I've recently tinkered around with doing a mile, then doing 10-15 minutes of abs, another mile, then 10-15 minutes of abs, then another mile.

I just get so bored on the treadmill for 3-4 miles, so it's nice to break it up. Am I hurting myself by doing that though?

Nope. Id say that's a good way to go. Though I avoid the treadmill altogether just hate running.

[LeafUF]

Well, i went with a 2 mile/30mins on the weights workout Monday and back to 4mile/30min weights on Tuesday with no significant change in diet. Down about 5 pounds since Sunday as of this morning. I think i may not be getting enough rest though, at 5-6 hours of sleep a night.

Getting more sleep would be good but taking sufficient time off would be better. Make sure you aren't over training.

[Dreamliner]

What do you guys think about doing cardio in "sets"? I've recently tinkered around with doing a mile, then doing 10-15 minutes of abs, another mile, then 10-15 minutes of abs, then another mile.

I just get so bored on the treadmill for 3-4 miles, so it's nice to break it up. Am I hurting myself by doing that though?

I like the creativity, but why would you spend so much time on your abs ? After all, if you don't have a six-pack, it's only because they're already developed but covered by a layer of fat. That layer of fat could be eliminated through diet alone. But since exercise will help to speed that process, why not concentrate on your best-bang-for-the-buck exercises, compound movements ?

[LeafUF]

Best core exercise = deadlift

[Dreamliner]

Best core exercise = deadlift

Yep, and throw in chinups and pushups. Also, a recent study revealed a correlation between the number of pushups one could perform and degree of bellyfat. The more pushups you can do, the less bellyfat you have.

[Dreamliner]

Did a 'card deck workout' today. No, it's not original:

hearts = pushups

diamonds = renegade rows

spades = side-to-side bench jumps

clubs = box jumps

So, if I draw, say, a seven of hearts, I do seven pushups, and so on, until I work my way through the entire deck. Face cards count 12. Jokers 1 if I need the rest. :wink:

Took me 48 minutes.

[LeafUF]

I might gain 13 pounds this week. Restaurant week in Philly and I am here on company per diem.

Thankfully I have complimentary access to the PSC to keep me somewhat honest.

[G8RBrave]

I like the creativity, but why would you spend so much time on your abs ? After all, if you don't have a six-pack, it's only because they're already developed but covered by a layer of fat. That layer of fat could be eliminated through diet alone. But since exercise will help to speed that process, why not concentrate on your best-bang-for-the-buck exercises, compound movements ?

I only do intense cardio two days a week, so you're only looking at 2 20 minute ab sessions throughout the week. I don't think it's overkill, personally.

[Dreamliner]

I only do intense cardio two days a week, so you're only looking at 2 20 minute ab sessions throughout the week. I don't think it's overkill, personally.

Gotcha.

[deebo65]

Did a 'card deck workout' today. No, it's not original:

hearts = pushups

diamonds = renegade rows

spades = side-to-side bench jumps

clubs = box jumps

So, if I draw, say, a seven of hearts, I do seven pushups, and so on, until I work my way through the entire deck. Face cards count 12. Jokers 1 if I need the rest. :wink:

Took me 48 minutes.

We used to do a card game back in the day called Guts. We would just take a deck, shuffle it and one person would flip the top card and whatever it was do that many pushups. Then the next person the same. All the way through the deck. Then we'd re-shuffle it and do the same thing again only doing crunches

[Dreamliner]

We used to do a card game back in the day called Guts. We would just take a deck, shuffle it and one person would flip the top card and whatever it was do that many pushups. Then the next person the same. All the way through the deck. Then we'd re-shuffle it and do the same thing again only doing crunches

It's fun and challenging. You don't have time to prepare your mind for the next exercise.

[LonedawgUF]

I'm not knocking the gym when I say this but I get the same results from P90X in 4 weeks that I got from 6 months, 6 days a week in the gym when I was deployed to the desert several years a go. When I got deployed I was still recovering from my second shoulder surgery on the labrum in my right shoulder. Me and a buddy decided it was as good a time as any to hit the gym hard. There was nothing better to do during down time. I got bigger and shredded. I am 5'9" also but was at a healthy 175-180 with a BF% at about 15%. I left the military in December of 2007. I went from 175lbs to 206 when I broke my wrist a little over a year and a half ago.

I started P90X about a month ago after I brushed the dust off of it since it was sitting around since Christmas. I cleaned out my garage, laid some gym mat on the floor, set up a DVD and TV, got some bands, some adjustable dumbbells and went to work. Guys, seriously. When I left the military I could do anywhere from 60 - 80 push ups in a minute. A month ago I couldnt do 5 without having to stop and rest. I am now doing 30-40. I started at 206lbs, my current weight ONE month later is 186. I did not have the muscle mass I had 3 years ago, but it is starting to come back. I've lost 20lbs of fat in about 4 weeks by doing P90X and changing my diet. This program is legit. I've always been a "fitness guy" at least until i left the military. The science behind the program is sound and there is nothing easy about it. I love it. If you REALLY want to get in good shape this is the program to get.

I've made a little bit of an investment to get a nice little set up in my garage. Adjustable dumbbells are perfect for this. I would suggest Power Blocks over the Bow-flex Selectech. The Power Blocks Sport 9.0 can expand upto 120lbs per dumbbell, and as you progress you will want the extra weight.

Like I said, I'm not knocking your program at the gym, but for a busy life style P90X is a cant miss path to fit. I just have to get my butt out of bed, walk to the garage and hit play and I'm in business.

[deebo65]

It's fun and challenging. You don't have time to prepare your mind for the next exercise.




Yea and sometimes you would skate by without to many face cards and sometimes... you get whacked with em. Makes it fun

[Dreamliner]

I'm not knocking the gym when I say this but I get the same results from P90X in 4 weeks that I got from 6 months, 6 days a week in the gym when I was deployed to the desert several years a go. When I got deployed I was still recovering from my second shoulder surgery on the labrum in my right shoulder. Me and a buddy decided it was as good a time as any to hit the gym hard. There was nothing better to do during down time. I got bigger and shredded. I am 5'9" also but was at a healthy 175-180 with a BF% at about 15%. I left the military in December of 2007. I went from 175lbs to 206 when I broke my wrist a little over a year and a half ago.

I started P90X about a month ago after I brushed the dust off of it since it was sitting around since Christmas. I cleaned out my garage, laid some gym mat on the floor, set up a DVD and TV, got some bands, some adjustable dumbbells and went to work. Guys, seriously. When I left the military I could do anywhere from 60 - 80 push ups in a minute. A month ago I couldnt do 5 without having to stop and rest. I am now doing 30-40. I started at 206lbs, my current weight ONE month later is 186. I did not have the muscle mass I had 3 years ago, but it is starting to come back. I've lost 20lbs of fat in about 4 weeks by doing P90X and changing my diet. This program is legit. I've always been a "fitness guy" at least until i left the military. The science behind the program is sound and there is nothing easy about it. I love it. If you REALLY want to get in good shape this is the program to get.

I've made a little bit of an investment to get a nice little set up in my garage. Adjustable dumbbells are perfect for this. I would suggest Power Blocks over the Bow-flex Selectech. The Power Blocks Sport 9.0 can expand upto 120lbs per dumbbell, and as you progress you will want the extra weight.

Like I said, I'm not knocking your program at the gym, but for a busy life style P90X is a cant miss path to fit. I just have to get my butt out of bed, walk to the garage and hit play and I'm in business.

And if I could just take this a step further, save your money (Tony Horton already has enough). Do your own research and program your own workouts.

[slmdLS1]

im fasting today. woot!

[Dreamliner]

im fasting today. woot!

Whoa! Won't that wreck your metabolism ?! :wink:

[G8RBrave]

Like I said, I'm not knocking your program at the gym, but for a busy life style P90X is a cant miss path to fit. I just have to get my butt out of bed, walk to the garage and hit play and I'm in business.

Depends on your lifestyle. Im a single dad, so the only time I have in my day to work out is on my lunch hour. I liked doing P90x, but found it immensely more difficult to do p90x's pushups with a 2 year old riding on my back.

Working out at the gym on my lunch break has been great, and I've seen just as good of results as I did when I was doing P90x.

No doubt, it's a very intense workout program and it does work, for some of us it is hard because of the time required and the fact that you basically need to be at home to do it.

[Dreamliner]

Depends on your lifestyle. Im a single dad, so the only time I have in my day to work out is on my lunch hour. I liked doing P90x, but found it immensely more difficult to do p90x's pushups with a 2 year old riding on my back.

Working out at the gym on my lunch break has been great, and I've seen just as good of results as I did when I was doing P90x.

No doubt, it's a very intense workout program and it does work, for some of us it is hard because of the time required and the fact that you basically need to be at home to do it.

Just think, when you can do pushups with a 22-year-old daughter on your back you'll be strong as s***!

[Dreamliner]

Liked the Card Deck Workout so much I did it again today, albeit with easier exercises:

hearts = mountain climbers

diamonds = breakdancers

clubs = hindu squats

spades = jumping jacks X 10; ex: if I drew a 7 of spades, I'd do 70 jumping jacks

total time: 40 minutes

[kkg8r]

I worked out 17 of 30 days and gained 2 lbs. Changed nothing on my diet but I am at one of the most stressful points of my life (job - whole company in danger).

[Dreamliner]

I worked out 17 of 30 days and gained 2 lbs. Changed nothing on my diet but I am at one of the most stressful points of my life (job - whole company in danger).

Sorry to hear about the job situation. I'm hoping for the better on that. And sometimes it's all you can do just to keep slogging. But look at it this way: think how sucky you'd feel if you weren't working out through all this ?

Also, it is a major point of emphasis, for me, that diet is FAR more important than exercise with regards to weight control. You can lose weight without exercising. On the other hand, it's very difficult to out-exercise a bad diet. I only mention this because there is a tendency to overeat in times of stress. I know I do.

[LeafUF]

Today was my off day but I decided to hit the gym anyway since I'm not leaving town for a bit still. Tried out Braves cardio and abs work and thought it was pretty good. Did less but for a day I wasn't planning on working out anyway it was a good 30 minute routine.

[slmdLS1]

im fasting today. woot!

same ole workout last night.

7am weigh in Thursday: 268lbs
7am weigh in Friday: 262.5lbs

[Dreamliner]

same ole workout last night.

7am weigh in Thursday: 268lbs
7am weigh in Friday: 262.5lbs

Some of that is probably food weight, or lack thereof.

[deebo65]

same ole workout last night.

7am weigh in Thursday: 268lbs
7am weigh in Friday: 262.5lbs

pre or post morning poop> :ninja:

[slmdLS1]

actually there was no trip to the toilet.

My intake was around 1300(Monday), 1500(Tuesday), and 1800(Wednesday) so it couldn't be much food weight as 2 of those 3 days are my workout days.

I don't care what kinda weight it is as long as it isn't muscle!

[LeafUF]

Sorry to say some of it is. But as long as its not the majority thats ok.

[slmdLS1]

oh yeah i know. i guess a "considerable" amount should've been in there...

[LeafUF]

Sounds like you broke your plateau at least.

[slmdLS1]

That is kind of what encouraged me to try the fasting. It was also a "what the hell" idea to see if i had the will power. Today is my second full day of the fast.

[LeafUF]

you just drinking water, right?

I will be fasting tonight until tomorrow night for Yom Kippur. But that is the only fast I do all year. I do always feel great afterward though and every year I tell myself I should do it more often. My only problem is the lack of caffeine.

[slmdLS1]

Yeah, staying hydrated. I had some light snacks like granola bars here at my desk at work in case i started to feel any weird effects, but none. So just water. My last meal was Wednesday night and my next will be a good breakfast tomorrow morning.

didn't think i could do it, but I'm confident i can do it regularly. Helped confidence a bunch and seeing the quick results is encouraging and exciting. Definitely makes ti all feel worth it when i saw i lost 5 lbs yesterday.

[The_Graygator]

Hey, good for you that you lost some weight!

Increasing your metabolism with exercise is a great way to start losing weight.

Also, cut down on the sugars and fat grams you consukme every day, and try to keep your caloric intake around 2,000 a day. Also, the smaller meals during the day is a much better habit than a couple of big ones, as you're spreading out the calories during the active hours of your day.

Another great hint is to be careful about eating foods after 7 PM when your body's metabolism is slowing down. If you have to eat after 7 PM, instead of those late evening sweets many people tend to sneak in, try a salad or veggies or fruit.

Good luck!

[Dreamliner]

As I was feeling a little beat up from back-to-back card deck workouts, I decided to do a shorter strength-oriented workout today. I did dumbbell clean and press and chinups ladder style. That is, I'd do one clean and press and one chinup, two cleans and two chinups, three cleans and three chinups, then I start at the bottom of the ladder again, five rounds total followed by a two-mile walk.

7,200 lbs. lifted in under 20 minutes.

[gator9385]

Hey guys and gals, newby to this thread. I get plenty of daily exercise due to my job (owning/working in a wholesale container tree farm). Lot's of lifting and walking. However, I have had an incredibly bad eating habits for the last ten + years. Did a lot of delivering/driving long distances. Would eat very little if any breakfast, fast food or no lunch and then a huge dinner about 8 - 10 pm. This would occur for at least 2 -3 days per week. Finally broke down and have started diet under a Doctor's supervision. Started 2 weeks ago. Tale of the tape: 5'7" and a mind boggling 354lbs at start. He has me on whole foods only, NOTHING PROCESSED, no soda, diet or otherwise. Water, Water, Water. Very strict the first 3 weeks to clean out my body then a maintenance inerval of 4 - 6 weeks then strict again and so forth. I have stuck to it and weighed 325 this morning. I keep a daily journal of all foods and amounts. Staying at 1000 calories and under during this 3 weeks. Then get to go up tp 1500 during the maintenace phase. Hard at first, but refuse to give in to temptation. Walk through the grocery store for motivation. Working in the nursery more also due to economy since I had to let go all employees except one.

[The_Graygator]

Ugh. That fast food habit is a bad one. I used to eat from the Hardees a couple of times a week, but I've been lifting weights for over a dozen years.

The usual average caloric intake for someone is right around 2,000 calories a day, but those fast food sandwiches can be up to 700 - 1,000 calories alone by themselves.

I usually keep my Hardees or Taco Bell trips down to once every two weeks now. :wink:

[slmdLS1]

i ended up at 261 yesterday morning after my fast, 5.5lbs lost in day one, and i could feel the body goin into caveman mode the second day only losing 1.5lbs. had a hearty breakfast around 700 calories. 5 egg whites, grits, OJ, and raisin bran.....





....then forgot to look at Applebees online nutritional menu before leaving for dinner with parents last night after the game. 2030 calorie "Orange Chicken". yikes. had no cue it was that bad.

[LeafUF]

You really should know that was a bad one. Just based on what it is alone, not to mention restaurant portion sizes.

Still, its one off meal, nothing to get too upset over.

Since you seemed to do well with the fasting have you thought about trying the Warrior Diet? That or Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fatloss Handbook might be good for you based on what you have already been doing.

[slmdLS1]

well, it had some ok stuff in it. chicken obviously, rice, sugar snaps, peppers, water chestnuts, broccoli...i suppose a lot of it came from the spicy sweet sauce. I went in thinkin i had 1000 calories to play with. Thats how i wrote it off too, just a once in a while bend to the calorie limit.

I'll have to look into those other 2 diets. im thinking i might try the fast again this week , but only one day and on my off day in regards to workouts.

[LeafUF]

Yeah, the rice and sauce will get you. Plus isnt the chicken battered and fried?

Anyway, the Warrior diet basically has you fasting during the day and eating a big meal at night. And the rapid fatloss is a protein sparing modified fast where you can eat all the fibrous veggies you want, very little fat and about 1200 calories of just protein.

[Dreamliner]

I'm currently hooked on the card deck workout format. Today I'm taking my 100 lb bag to the backyard:

Hearts = bag push

Diamonds = carry over left shoulder

Clubs = carry over right shoulder

Spades = bear hug and carry

Joker = pummel bag with elbows and knees

Edit: probably the hardest workout I've done in recent memory. The only reason I got dry heaves is because I hadn't eaten in several hours. Employed 'intensifiers' such as throwing the bag down with contempt, as opposed to just dropping it.

The pummeling sessions were the hardest. They included bag slams, knee strikes and elbow strikes.

Workout took fricking 66 minutes. Probably burned 700 calories but with relatively little wear and tear on the joints.

I'm getting addicted to these types of workouts that have my heart rate at 90% or higher for a half hour or more. That way, if I ever encounter an emergency situtation, maybe I won't have a heart attack. :happy:

Of course workouts like these might give me a heart attack. :whistle:

[Dreamliner]

How to clean a heavy bag to your shoulder without throwing your back out:

http://www.wildmantraining.com/videos/

It's the first video, the 'prisoner workout.'

[LeafUF]

Prisoner workout sounds intense.

I am off to do some squats. And tomorrow I hope to be able to stand up without having to use my arms to get out of a chair.

[Dreamliner]

Prisoner workout sounds intense.

I am off to do some squats. And tomorrow I hope to be able to stand up without having to use my arms to get out of a chair.

BTW, Jim Wendler recommends heavy cardio after leg workouts. That gives your legs maximum recovery time.

My problem is I'm addicted to some sort of total body stimulation every time out. Split routines have always felt funny for me.

[Dreamliner]

Was at a party last night and had to bite my lip. I overheard a converstion between two ladies that revolved around their frustration about not being able to jog because one had knee tendonitis and other had her knee scoped. They talked like they couldn't control their weight without jogging. I so wanted to tell them that the reason they were having problems with their knees was the jogging, and that they were injuring themselves by manically engaging in an activity that is actually relatively inefficient as a means of weight control.

[LeafUF]

Not exactly sure what Heavy Cardio is but I did do some cardio after I finished lifting.

[Dreamliner]

Not exactly sure what Heavy Cardio is but I did do some cardio after I finished lifting.

Wendler pushes a prowler or does hill sprints. Heavy cardio for me would be something like a bag workout or an MMA style circuit with five continuous minutes of exercise at 90% heart rate or better with no more than one minute rest between circuits. In other words, heavily anaerobic.

[LeafUF]

Ahh, I rarely do anything like that after lifting. I had trouble just getting into the car tonight as it was.

I usually my heavy cardio on off days from lifting.

[Dreamliner]

Ahh, I rarely do anything like that after lifting. I had trouble just getting into the car tonight as it was.

I usually my heavy cardio on off days from lifting.

Well, sounds like you had a productive workout alright.

[Dreamliner]

Took it easy(er) today after yesterday's brutal bag workout. Did ladders of dumbbell clean and press and chinups. This is adapted from Pavel Tsatsouline's Enter the Kettlebell program. Basically you do 1 clean, 1 chin, 2 cleans, 2 chins, 3 cleans, 3 chins ... and I'm working up to five rounds of 1-2-3-4-5. That would be 75 reps of each exercise.

Finished with three ladders of one-legged squats and a nice walk.

[LeafUF]

Maybe you can pick it up and try Sandbag Death tomorrow.

http://www.trainforstrength.com/workout3.shtml

[Dreamliner]

Maybe you can pick it up and try Sandbag Death tomorrow.

http://www.trainforstrength.com/workout3.shtml

Hehe, my wife is already slightly annoyed with me for littering the backyard with tires and bags. I don't think she'd appreciate my adding more to the mix.

Besides, I'm the simplicity guy. I'd much prefer to do a workout that involves perhaps one implement or one or two exercises per workout.

[slmdLS1]

This morning marked officially 40lbs lost. working out since July 17th, dieting since August 5th.

[LeafUF]

Good work

[Dreamliner]

Pressed for time today so I did the following card deck workout:

hearts = pushups

diamonds = inverted rows

clubs = reverse lunges

spades = stability ball leg curls

jokers = stability ball plank

Heart rate was at 100% or more for part of the workout.

[Dreamliner]

Evidence continues to pour in regarding the superiority of training while fasting:

http://www.leangains.com

[LeafUF]

Interesting stuff. I read the article and one thing I either missed or did not see was what is considered the fasted state for training. For example if I move my weekend training to before breakfast would I gain the benefits of fasted weight training? If I had a normal dinner time meal the night before.

During the week this would be a lot harder for me to accomplish since I usually work out after getting home from work and dont see myself fasting all day. I generally workout 90 minutes or so after a meal.

[Dreamliner]

No, but the author draws the logical conclusion that if intense exercise is better fasting, then weight training will be true. I suspect that the whole 'you need fuel for your workout' is a myth', especially in the context of weight control. You can always utilize your existing bodyfat. Having to eat to workout is, I suspect, strongly psychological.

[slmdLS1]

No, but the author draws the logical conclusion that if intense exercise is better fasting, then weight training will be true. I suspect that the whole 'you need fuel for your workout' is a myth', especially in the context of weight control. You can always utilize your existing bodyfat. Having to eat to workout is, I suspect, strongly psychological.

it could be true about being psychological, but when i fasted 2 days last week, i worked out the first day, and by the time for workout the 2nd didn't have a whole lot of energy. I certainly didn't feel like working out. Since i was testing the whole fasting thing, i just went ahead and canceled the workout that 2nd afternoon kind of worried that if i got into and intense workout i might give out or something.

[LeafUF]

You may be right, but there may also be a little more to it. I guess my point is that Intermittent fasting and fasted training are not the same. Fasted training say after 10 hours of not eating then going and having a meal for me would be something I would give a try to see if I see any benefits. Training on a fasted day though I could see diminishing returns in the gym as far as intensity and energy level.

I think I will give fasted training a shot this weekend, at the very least to see how I react. And get me to the gym sooner than normal. If I like it Saturday I will do it again Sunday. If I really like it I might push my evening workouts during the week to the morning.

[LeafUF]

it could be true about being psychological, but when i fasted 2 days last week, i worked out the first day, and by the time for workout the 2nd didn't have a whole lot of energy. I certainly didn't feel like working out. Since i was testing the whole fasting thing, i just went ahead and canceled the workout that 2nd afternoon kind of worried that if i got into and intense workout i might give out or something.

Thats what I was getting at in my previous post. Though it seems to me that there may be added benefit to training from a fasted state though not necessarily training during an extended fast like the one you were on.

Even on a very low calorie diet Lyle McDonald recommends dialing back the intensity on workouts since the lower energy levels from extreme caloric deficits could easier lead to overtraining.

[Dreamliner]

By all accounts, Lyle McDonald is the man. But my experience does not agree with this assertion of his. I've had some of my best training during 24-hr fasts. And besides, you're not going to overtrain after one day anyway.

Let's be honest, we Americans in particular are programmed to think that we're going to shrivel up if we don't eat.

Side note: this month I've been exercising furiously at least five days a week. As a result, I've been eating ravenously, upwards of 3,000 calories a day on a 6-0 155 pound frame. I've lost about one pound during the process, but my muscles seem somehow flattened out. Also, tendonitis has flared up.

Bottom line: for me, I look and feel better training less frequently and eating less.

[LeafUF]

My comment on Lyle and overtraining was meant to go along with extended periods of low calorie, not necessarily training on a single day fast. That is what he recommends for his extreme low calorie diet. Tying that back to training on an extended fast like the one you mention was my interpretation, not his.

I dont know if Americans think they are going to shrivel up if they dont eat. Athletes and fitness competitors think this way. But, I think most Americans simply have a positive emotional response to eating that borders at times on disease.

As to your experience its funny because I have been doing the same thing this past month and besides the tendinitis flare up my results are the exact opposite. I have been around 180 consistently and look better than I have in a long time and my strength is up. If it weren't for the triceps tendinitis which I have had off and on for years I would say its a perfect success for me.

[Dreamliner]

My comment on Lyle and overtraining was meant to go along with extended periods of low calorie, not necessarily training on a single day fast. That is what he recommends for his extreme low calorie diet. Tying that back to training on an extended fast like the one you mention was my interpretation, not his.

I dont know if Americans think they are going to shrivel up if they dont eat. Athletes and fitness competitors think this way. But, I think most Americans simply have a positive emotional response to eating that borders at times on disease.

As to your experience its funny because I have been doing the same thing this past month and besides the tendinitis flare up my results are the exact opposite. I have been around 180 consistently and look better than I have in a long time and my strength is up. If it weren't for the triceps tendinitis which I have had off and on for years I would say its a perfect success for me.

I thought you were doing 5-3-1 ?

[LeafUF]

I thought you were doing 5-3-1 ?

I am, I guess I need to be more clear, I am eating a ton and working out really hard. Not necessarily furiously 5 days a week. But it is hard and intense work that certainly kicks my butt.

[Dreamliner]

I am, I guess I need to be more clear, I am eating a ton and working out really hard. Not necessarily furiously 5 days a week. But it is hard and intense work that certainly kicks my butt.

Gotcha. I work out hard regardless the frequency. But I think I'm learning that working out five or more days a week at 90% heart rate or better is probably overkill.

[LeafUF]

Yeah, I couldnt get by without my rest days. I usually workout 3-4 days a week. If I do 5 it would be a lighter day where I just get in some cardio and stretching or do something otherwise active.

I have been looking into things to change it up one or two days a week since you can get by on 5-3-1 with 3 days. I usually do 4 though. But I could cut it back if I found something else fun and athletic to do.

Just not sure what yet.

[Dreamliner]

Yeah, I couldnt get by without my rest days. I usually workout 3-4 days a week. If I do 5 it would be a lighter day where I just get in some cardio and stretching or do something otherwise active.

I have been looking into things to change it up one or two days a week since you can get by on 5-3-1 with 3 days. I usually do 4 though. But I could cut it back if I found something else fun and athletic to do.

Just not sure what yet.

I could suggest lots of extra workouts you could do. But none of them are fun. :wave:

[LeafUF]

I could suggest lots of extra workouts you could do. But none of them are fun. :wave:

Ha, thanks. I think I will pass for now. Though, looking for fun exercises on my own led me to that Sandbag Death exercise which sounds just awful. Great but awful.

[Dreamliner]

Ha, thanks. I think I will pass for now. Though, looking for fun exercises on my own led me to that Sandbag Death exercise which sounds just awful. Great but awful.

If I go back to 5-3-1, I would probably do an abbreviated version of the sandbag workout on squat days. And I might do farmer's walks on deadlift day. So, working out three days a week, I'd be getting 1-2 of the really strenuous cardio workouts a week, which is probably quite sufficient. I walk a lot in any case. So, my adjustment doesn't really involve exercising fewer days a week but rather exercising intensely fewer days a week. In the end, I'll probably burn the same number of calories because I'll probably be doing more walking.

[G8rChuck85]

I haven't read the whole thread so sorry if this has been brought up. Anyone try Green Smoothies? Caroline's co-workers swear by them. Sounds pretty bad to me!

[LeafUF]

Never heard of it. What are Green Smoothies?

[G8rChuck85]

Seems to be where you blend fresh green veggies with a little fruit into a smoothie to get more greens into your diet. I haven't tried one yet.

[LeafUF]

Sounds gross and silly to me. Unless you just really really hate greens. Even still, id just learn which ones I like and find ways to enjoy them.

[slmdLS1]

Sounds gross and silly to me. Unless you just really really hate greens. Even still, id just learn which ones I like and find ways to enjoy them.

i agree. my meals yesterday were green beans(fresh/no salt) & Mustard greens for lunch, and a salad for dinner.

[Dreamliner]

Should we be concerned about bodyfat percentage, which can't be reliably measured outside the laboratory, or should we be concerned about body proportions ?

http://www.johnbarban.com

[LeafUF]

Starting up Krav Maga on the 11th and the gym doubles as a house for Monkey Bar Gym.

http://monkeybargym.com/

Sounds an awful lot like Crossfit but new members get it for free so I might try out some of their workouts. I looked on the website and noticed they even use a card deck workout.

[Dreamliner]

Yep, I'm suspicious that it's derived from Crossfit, albeit with an emphasis on more playful forms of exercise. And like Crossfit, it's fantastic for conditioning, but not the best choice for strength.

Oh, and the founder is an anti-meat fanatic.

[LeafUF]

Yep, I'm suspicious that it's derived from Crossfit, albeit with an emphasis on more playful forms of exercise. And like Crossfit, it's fantastic for conditioning, but not the best choice for strength.

Oh, and the founder is an anti-meat fanatic.

Noticed that too. I have no desire to join and even if I did I am certainly not giving up meat. I wouldn't do a paleo diet either. I understand that for results diet and exercise have to go hand in hand but some of these programs turn people into fanatics.

[Dreamliner]

Noticed that too. I have no desire to join and even if I did I am certainly not giving up meat. I wouldn't do a paleo diet either. I understand that for results diet and exercise have to go hand in hand but some of these programs turn people into fanatics.

It's probably less cultish than Crossfit, but not by much.

That said, the founder, John Hinds, seems very likeable and I don't have any problem borrowing some of his ideas and giving him credit. I particularly like the emphasis on playful and low-tech forms of exercise. Very refreshing.

[LeafUF]

Yeah, I guess I will find out and report back over the next couple of weeks.

When it comes to gym style workouts I am fine and could continue doing that for a long time but I want to mix it up and try things that get my heart rate going a little more than the power lifting.

And doing cardio in a gym just does not cut it for me, so maybe giving something else a try for a little while will work.

Next week is a de-load week on 5-3-1. So, I think its a good time to try some new things.

[Dreamliner]

On the fallacy of 'unhealthy foods':

http://www.johnbarban.com

I can personally attest to this. Sugar is considered to be the major culprit in high triglycerides. I eat lots of sugar and my triglycerides are microscopic. Probably because I don't consume excess calories.

[G8RBrave]

Im getting a little frustrated at this point. I'm down a total of almost 30 lbs from my highest point (April 2010), but I still have the "skinny fat guy" thing going on. Id estimate my body fat at around 12-13%, but I still have a bit of a gut.

I'm sort of confused about whether I ought to consume some more calories and try to build up a bit, or keep trying to cut and get my BF% down to less than 10.

[LeafUF]

Honestly hard to tell, getting below 10% for most people is really hard. Then again maybe you arent really 13%. As dream posted a while back its really hard to monitor BF% accurately. Its nice to use calipers as a gauge for progress but not so much for accurate BF%

You have been cutting an awfully long time. Its got to be getting harder and harder to stay in a deficit. Might just need to switch some stuff up for a bit and see how your body responds.

[Dreamliner]

Im getting a little frustrated at this point. I'm down a total of almost 30 lbs from my highest point (April 2010), but I still have the "skinny fat guy" thing going on. Id estimate my body fat at around 12-13%, but I still have a bit of a gut.

I'm sort of confused about whether I ought to consume some more calories and try to build up a bit, or keep trying to cut and get my BF% down to less than 10.

It's hard to imagine you'd have a 'lot of gut' at 12-13%. Is it possible that you're well above that ? Remember that calipers and such are notoriously inaccurate.

In any case, you know what I'm going to say ... if you up your calories ... you're just going to put on more fat.

My guess is that you simply have more fat to lose. Additionally, if you're not employing fairly heavy compound movements you're going to lose muscle, which of course leads to the 'skinny-fat syndrome' you mentioned.

[G8RBrave]

I said "a bit of a gut", Dream. Not nearly what it was. I had a trainer at the gym test my BF today, and it came in at 12.6%. He did use calipers which of course wont be perfect, but hes at least qualified in this sort of thing.

The problem is, as it always has been - I carry almost all of my BF in my gut. I have virtually none on my chest, arms and certainly none on my legs. So, as it has been, my option is to go down to 125-130 lbs to get rid of the pooch (I'm 143 right now) or accept the fact that Im never going to have a six pack, and go ahead and try to slowly add 10-15 lbs of muscle.

I just don't know which is the right way to go at this point. Im working out harder than I ever have and Im eating just as well as I have all along. Im even doing intermittent fasting on Fridays (eat dinner Thursday, don't eat again until dinner on Fridays) to cut excess calories.

FYI - I am doing a lot of compound type exercises. Deadlifts, Bench Press, Military Press, and Squats are sort of the foundations of my workouts. I really have no complaints about my muscle mass - Ive kept what I had and maybe even added a bit overall while losing weight.

[LeafUF]

Brave sounds like you and I actually have a similar issue. Calipers always have my BF super low since I have no fat anywhere but my midsection. Now, I am hardly a good example since I have never had visible abs even at 9% BF as checked by a professional using calipers. Even now the more I check the lower the BF gets but I don't really trust it as I am doing it at home to keep track.

Just my opinion here, put on some muscle. No need to add a lot of calories or go crazy which will just make you fat but eat at maintenance or a tiny bit over and lift heavy. Develop your abs and put on some good weight then get back to the dieting and cutting in January.

[Dreamliner]

I said "a bit of a gut", Dream. Not nearly what it was. I had a trainer at the gym test my BF today, and it came in at 12.6%. He did use calipers which of course wont be perfect, but hes at least qualified in this sort of thing.

The problem is, as it always has been - I carry almost all of my BF in my gut. I have virtually none on my chest, arms and certainly none on my legs. So, as it has been, my option is to go down to 125-130 lbs to get rid of the pooch (I'm 143 right now) or accept the fact that Im never going to have a six pack, and go ahead and try to slowly add 10-15 lbs of muscle.

I just don't know which is the right way to go at this point. Im working out harder than I ever have and Im eating just as well as I have all along. Im even doing intermittent fasting on Fridays (eat dinner Thursday, don't eat again until dinner on Fridays) to cut excess calories.

FYI - I am doing a lot of compound type exercises. Deadlifts, Bench Press, Military Press, and Squats are sort of the foundations of my workouts. I really have no complaints about my muscle mass - Ive kept what I had and maybe even added a bit overall while losing weight.

Sorry, didn't catch the 'bit.' Sounds like you're like me. I can be all muscle and veins but unless I lose that last pound or two, I've got a thin layer of fat on my lower abs. It's pretty typical for a male.

I still think it boils down to calories and how badly you want it. Six-pack abs could be the male equivalent of the female preoccupation with thinness. Male bodybuilders go to extreme measures to acquire abs that they might keep for a matter of days, and they do so with extremely low calorie consumption, prodigious amounts of exercise and various stimulants including appetite suppressants. Oh, and probably liposuction.

Here's an interesting site though:

http://www.leangains.com

This guy is fairly well known in fitness circles. He has a unique take on intermittent fasting. You fast everyday for 16 hours and then eat for 8. For me, this just amounts to skipping breakfast, which I can take or leave anyway, and then eating a late lunch.

His clients do get six-packs and with only abbreviated strength routines and little or no cardio.

As an aside, if you measured 12.6 with calipers, you're probably closer to 15%. As far as I know, the only accurate test is the DEXA.

Note: if you are closer to 15% and only have a 'bit' of a belly, you should consider yourself fortunate. Lots of guys have to get down in the single digits to show their abs.

[gator9385]

I ended my 21 days of cleansing and lost 28 lbs total. I am now 11/2 weeks into the maintenance phase and keeping around 1500 calories per day. Veggies, fruit, and small amounts of lean meat. Down another 4 lbs. to 316 for total loss of 38 lbs so far. I feel much better and am sticking to it. Had 1 bad day/night and that was last Sat during and after Gator game. Fell off wagon and went thru about 2800 calories in 6 hours. Sunday morning got right back on.

[Dreamliner]

I ended my 21 days of cleansing and lost 28 lbs total. I am now 11/2 weeks into the maintenance phase and keeping around 1500 calories per day. Veggies, fruit, and small amounts of lean meat. Down another 4 lbs. to 316 for total loss of 38 lbs so far. I feel much better and am sticking to it. Had 1 bad day/night and that was last Sat during and after Gator game. Fell off wagon and went thru about 2800 calories in 6 hours. Sunday morning got right back on.

Fantastic! You've got to be feeling better overall.

[slmdLS1]

I ended my 21 days of cleansing and lost 28 lbs total. I am now 11/2 weeks into the maintenance phase and keeping around 1500 calories per day. Veggies, fruit, and small amounts of lean meat. Down another 4 lbs. to 316 for total loss of 38 lbs so far. I feel much better and am sticking to it. Had 1 bad day/night and that was last Sat during and after Gator game. Fell off wagon and went thru about 2800 calories in 6 hours. Sunday morning got right back on.

i must have missed it, what rules did you follow etc for your "cleansing" ? how is it structured?

congrats!

I hit 250 this morning, I'm down 48lbs in 10 weeks.

[Dreamliner]

i must have missed it, what rules did you follow etc for your "cleansing" ? how is it structured?

congrats!

I hit 250 this morning, I'm down 48lbs in 10 weeks.

Nearly five pounds a week - phenomenal! Blasts a gaping hole in the theory that you should only lose 1-2 pounds a week.

[slmdLS1]

Nearly five pounds a week - phenomenal! Blasts a gaping hole in the theory that you should only lose 1-2 pounds a week.

yep - all while feeling great instead of lethargic like some people say. Have a lot more energy...hopefully that's the metabolism.

I've kind of been testing a theory of mine.

I've fasted 3 times at least a week apart.
1st fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -7lbs
2nd fast - on a Wednesday (off day) Result = -0lbs
3rd fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -4lbs

I definitely am more successful at shedding pounds while fasting on a workout day, than fasting on a day off and then eating/workout the following day.

[Dreamliner]

yep - all while feeling great instead of lethargic like some people say. Have a lot more energy...hopefully that's the metabolism.

I've kind of been testing a theory of mine.

I've fasted 3 times at least a week apart.
1st fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -7lbs
2nd fast - on a Wednesday (off day) Result = -0lbs
3rd fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -4lbs

I definitely am more successful at shedding pounds while fasting on a workout day, than fasting on a day off and then eating/workout the following day.

There you go. Recent studies seem to confirm the superiority of fasted training, at least for fat loss. Also, I've just found that it's easier to maintain a fast through staying busy and active.

[LeafUF]

Nearly five pounds a week - phenomenal! Blasts a gaping hole in the theory that you should only lose 1-2 pounds a week.

Its great progress but doesn't really say anything about the theory that should only lose 1-2 pounds a week. If the theory was you can only lose 1-2 pounds a week then yeah, gaping hole.

Besides for someone with a lot of weight to lose most note that you can lose more than 2 pounds per week.

[GatoRella]

The problem is, as it always has been - I carry almost all of my BF in my gut. I have virtually none on my chest, arms and certainly none on my legs. So, as it has been, my option is to go down to 125-130 lbs to get rid of the pooch (I'm 143 right now) or accept the fact that Im never going to have a six pack, and go ahead and try to slowly add 10-15 lbs of muscle.

Dude we are all the same! I have the same exact problem, I am 5'9 150-155 lbs. I am pretty muscular but I still have that fat on my belly..... it never goes away, I just cant get rid of it. I do tons of core exercises to no avail. I have all but given up, but all that means is I wont have a 6 pack which I can live with. Honestly, it is probably only about a pound or so of fat and every other part of my body is super lean.

It is comforting to hear I am not the only one.

[Dreamliner]

Its great progress but doesn't really say anything about the theory that should only lose 1-2 pounds a week. If the theory was you can only lose 1-2 pounds a week then yeah, gaping hole.

Besides for someone with a lot of weight to lose most note that you can lose more than 2 pounds per week.

Yes, but the conventional wisdom is that you should only lose 1-2 pounds a week. No compelling reasons are given. It's just supposed to be true, like most conventional wisdom that doesn't bear up under scrutiny.

[LeafUF]

yep - all while feeling great instead of lethargic like some people say. Have a lot more energy...hopefully that's the metabolism.

I've kind of been testing a theory of mine.

I've fasted 3 times at least a week apart.
1st fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -7lbs
2nd fast - on a Wednesday (off day) Result = -0lbs
3rd fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -4lbs

I definitely am more successful at shedding pounds while fasting on a workout day, than fasting on a day off and then eating/workout the following day.

Good stuff. That is some aggressive fasting routine, not sure I could do it. I am sure the more you do it the easier it gets too. On the days you eat are eating more than you were before you start throwing fasts into your week?

[Dreamliner]

Dude we are all the same! I have the same exact problem, I am 5'9 150-155 lbs. I am pretty muscular but I still have that fat on my belly..... it never goes away, I just cant get rid of it. I do tons of core exercises to no avail. I have all but given up, but all that means is I wont have a 6 pack which I can live with. Honestly, it is probably only about a pound or so of fat and every other part of my body is super lean.

It is comforting to hear I am not the only one.

Stop wasting your time with 'core exercises', for one thing. Squats, deadlifts, chins, presses, they all work your core like crazy, build more muscle and burn more calories during and after exercise. Also, if you still have fat on your belly, it just means you have more fat to lose. There's no such thing as 'stubborn fat.' It is simply the case that we lose fat in reverse order. For most men, we gain fat around the waist first, and therefore it's the last to be lost. This is why you see Jimmy Johnson on Survivor would a drawn face and he yet he still has a belly.

[LeafUF]

Yes, but the conventional wisdom is that you should only lose 1-2 pounds a week. No compelling reasons are given. It's just supposed to be true, like most conventional wisdom that doesn't bear up under scrutiny.

I have seen this explained as "healthy" weight loss or "fat" loss. Though, I have never seen anyone actually study it to say if you lose 2 pounds a week it will be fat and if you lose 4 it will be half fat and half muscle.

Anyway, hopefully most in this thread do enough research to know what is right for them.

[Dreamliner]

I have seen this explained as "healthy" weight loss or "fat" loss. Though, I have never seen anyone actually study it to say if you lose 2 pounds a week it will be fat and if you lose 4 it will be half fat and half muscle.

Anyway, hopefully most in this thread do enough research to know what is right for them.

The sad thing is that so many know instinctively how to control their weight but succumb to the pressure of conventional wisdom. For decades, Hollywood actresses and top models have lost weight by 'starving' themselves. And by that I mean fighting through hunger pangs and eating less. I certainly don't mean the more recent trend of anorexia and bulimia.

[slmdLS1]

Good stuff. That is some aggressive fasting routine, not sure I could do it. I am sure the more you do it the easier it gets too. On the days you eat are eating more than you were before you start throwing fasts into your week?

yes and no. And yes, the more i have done it i have thought about making it (at least for now) part of my routine to fast 1 day a week. My meals range from 1200-1600 calories per day now. i lowered my limits from 1800/day.

1st fast i actually did for 2 full days, the 7lbs was just the first day loss, though. Day 2 yielded another 1.5-2lbs, but wasnt worth the effort past 1 day. the day after the fast was a 2600 calorie day where i ate 1 meal at Applebees that was 2000 calories.

2nd fast was a 1 day deal on the off day(Weds) thinking i could get the effect of a workout day without working out. the next day was a normal 1500ish calorie day.

3rd fast...friday after was also a normal 1500ish calorie day.

[Dreamliner]

Leaf -

I recently read a Rippetoe article on squatting and I only THOUGHT that I was doing a lowbar squat. Here are some of his cues for proper squatting, along with my personal observations:

*Position bar BELOW scapula. This means below the bump on the back of your shoulder. Seemed a little hairy at first. But this one little change, more than any other, enabled me to use more weight. I assume that it places the weight in a more advantageous position with respect to center-of-gravity. My then existing weight just flew up. I had to add twenty pounds right away.

*Hands as close together as possible and shoulders back. This actually caused the most discomfort (and achy wrists), and I felt like I had been doing rows afterwards.

*Look down and ahead six to ten feet. I tend to look forward. I think that looking down enables you to achieve the next cue:

*Keep low back contracted. If you train alone, as I do, there's no way to be absolutely sure you've got a tight low back. Rippetoe suggests that you warm up with back extensions to get a feel for what lumbar extension feels like.

*Force knees outward on descent. This, along with the true lowbar position made the biggest difference. Low bar and knees out had me automatically going deeper in the hole and with more weight. Rippetoe calls tight lumbar and knees out the 'active hip' position and explains that it creates more propulsion going back up. And I have certainly found this to be true.

Biggie: LEAD WITH SACRUM AND NOT WITH CHEST on way up. Takes some getting used to. Almost looks like a good morning. But Rippetoe maintains that this is the only way to keep the hamstrings engaged at their upper insertion. He calls this 'hip drive' or 'using your ass' when you squat.

This has been a revelation to me and I've experienced less aches and pains with it.

[LeafUF]

<iframe frameborder="no" width="480" height="270" scrolling="no" src="http://www.theonion.com/video_embed/?id=18198"></iframe><br /><a href="http://www.theonion.com/video/study-americans-get-majority-of-exercise-while-dru,18198/" target="_blank" title="Study: Americans Get Majority Of Exercise While Drunk">Study: Americans Get Majority Of Exercise While Drunk</a>

[LeafUF]

Leaf -

I recently read a Rippetoe article on squatting and I only THOUGHT that I was doing a lowbar squat. Here are some of his cues for proper squatting, along with my personal observations:

*Position bar BELOW scapula. This means below the bump on the back of your shoulder. Seemed a little hairy at first. But this one little change, more than any other, enabled me to use more weight. I assume that it places the weight in a more advantageous position with respect to center-of-gravity. My then existing weight just flew up. I had to add twenty pounds right away.

*Hands as close together as possible and shoulders back. This actually caused the most discomfort (and achy wrists), and I felt like I had been doing rows afterwards.

*Look down and ahead six to ten feet. I tend to look forward. I think that looking down enables you to achieve the next cue:

*Keep low back contracted. If you train alone, as I do, there's no way to be absolutely sure you've got a tight low back. Rippetoe suggests that you warm up with back extensions to get a feel for what lumbar extension feels like.

*Force knees outward on descent. This, along with the true lowbar position made the biggest difference. Low bar and knees out had me automatically going deeper in the hole and with more weight. Rippetoe calls tight lumbar and knees out the 'active hip' position and explains that it creates more propulsion going back up. And I have certainly found this to be true.

Biggie: LEAD WITH SACRUM AND NOT WITH CHEST on way up. Takes some getting used to. Almost looks like a good morning. But Rippetoe maintains that this is the only way to keep the hamstrings engaged at their upper insertion. He calls this 'hip drive' or 'using your ass' when you squat.

This has been a revelation to me and I've experienced less aches and pains with it.

Interesting stuff, I dont get a lot of aches and pains from the squatting but I am not sure I follow these tips. The tight arms one might be tough for me, my right shoulder almost always hurts after squatting and I keep trying different arm positions.

[Dreamliner]

Interesting stuff, I dont get a lot of aches and pains from the squatting but I am not sure I follow these tips. The tight arms one might be tough for me, my right shoulder almost always hurts after squatting and I keep trying different arm positions.

It is true - and Cressey has commented on this - that squatting in general is not the best thing for shoulder impingement. This is because simply bearing the weight forces the shoulders to internally rotate. I think this is why the safety bar is en vogue. And to give Rippetoe credit, he does acknowledge that this is harder for some than others and only encourages trainees to work at it.

I've learned to live with a little shoulder tenderness anyway. As long as it doesn't become acute, I don't sweat it.

Oh, and since I take Wendler and Rippetoe's advice and rest 5 or more minutes between sets, I do 'fillers' in between sets. In between squat sets I might do band pull-aparts or shoulder dislocations, scapular stability stuff.

[kkg8r]

With regard to the calipers, I have a bit of experience here. When I was a freshman at UF (and had gained the freshman 15) I participated I. A study that one of my profs was conducting. Basically, I was measured with calipers, then via some Ohm measurement and finally via water displacement. The caliper test actually measured me at an 8% difference. My prof then went on to tell me that this very skinny asian guy in my class actually measured in at obese.

I'm hitting 0 goals at the moment but am very stressed out which makes me eat drink and sleep to excess. The good news is that i'll be starting a new job soon. I'll shed a lot of stress and replace it with exciting stress. I will need to find a good routine. :)

[Dreamliner]

With regard to the calipers, I have a bit of experience here. When I was a freshman at UF (and had gained the freshman 15) I participated I. A study that one of my profs was conducting. Basically, I was measured with calipers, then via some Ohm measurement and finally via water displacement. The caliper test actually measured me at an 8% difference. My prof then went on to tell me that this very skinny asian guy in my class actually measured in at obese.

I'm hitting 0 goals at the moment but am very stressed out which makes me eat drink and sleep to excess. The good news is that i'll be starting a new job soon. I'll shed a lot of stress and replace it with exciting stress. I will need to find a good routine. :)

Yeah, don't sweat it. It's hard to out-exercise a period of pronounced stress. Just roll with the punches and get back into when you can.

[slmdLS1]

yep - all while feeling great instead of lethargic like some people say. Have a lot more energy...hopefully that's the metabolism.

I've kind of been testing a theory of mine.

I've fasted 3 times at least a week apart.
1st fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -7lbs
2nd fast - on a Wednesday (off day) Result = -0lbs
3rd fast - on a Thursday (workout day) Result = -4lbs

I definitely am more successful at shedding pounds while fasting on a workout day, than fasting on a day off and then eating/workout the following day.

4th fast was yesterday, another workout day...-4lbs. (1300 calories today).

officially 50lbs down now. more importantly, i have moved 7 slots down on my BMI chart. Im not one of those people that actually looks obese, i just have those characteristics like broad shoulders and thick quads.

already had to buy new pants, now i have to find my 3rd belt as i have ran through the 2 i bought not long ago.

[LeafUF]

BMI is useless imo. A nurse mentioned BMI to me and I told her to check my BF%. I weigh 180 and BMI says I shouldn't weigh more than 174 pounds. However, my BF% is below 14% actually under the normal range. Do I really need to lose those 6 pounds for health reasons? I dont think so. Could I lose them to cut up, sure.

[neisgator]

Dream...When you fast, are you drinking water/taking a vitamin? Anything? Or is it literally, not a thing goes in your mouth for 18 hours?

[LeafUF]

They are drinking water and coffee if I remember correctly.

I do fasts where nothing crosses my lips and trust me it is not pleasant. I think simply having caffeine and water would make it tolerable.

[G8RBrave]

I'm doing one of the intermittent fasts that dream describes. I ate dinner last night and will not eat until dinner tonight.

However, I do drink a lot of water. Keeps the belly full and at least keeps some of the hunger pangs at bay.

[Dreamliner]

Dream...When you fast, are you drinking water/taking a vitamin? Anything? Or is it literally, not a thing goes in your mouth for 18 hours?

The only thing I don't deprive myself of is my morning coffee with half & half. Other than that, it's water the rest of the way. There's nothing magic about it. I don't do for spiritual reasons and I don't believe that it 'cleanses toxins.' It's simply a convenient way of slashing total weekly calories. Now, it is magic in the sense that, when in a fasting state, the body produces a chemical reaction similar to the exercise state. It produces growth hormone and such. And it literally taps into your bodyfat.

[G8RBrave]

Yeah, I've decided to start doing this on Fridays. That way I kill some calories off before I go into the weekend, which inevitably includes a few beers and a burger or something along the way.

[Dreamliner]

Did my deck of cards workout with the heavy bag again today. Substituted simple bag slams for the mini-pummeling session I was doing when drawing a joker. That workout took a ridiculous 66 minutes. With the tweaking today's took 50 minutes. Hope to eventually break 45 minutes.

[LeafUF]

http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_400/423_5-bad-foods-to-cut-out-of-your-diet.html

I think they should rename this article "Five reasons I will never do P90X"

1- Processed sugars
I'm talking about white sugar, high-fructose corn syrup, sucrose, or pretty much any kind of sugar that came from a factory instead of a piece of fruit. Processed sugar negatively affects your metabolism, your insulin response, even your mood -- and all for totally empty calories. And cutting sugar out of your diet means you're going to have to read some labels, because it is by far the most common additive of all the bad foods in the U.S.
2- Alcohol
Calories from alcohol are as empty as sugar, and at seven calories a gram, booze can really pack it on. Alcohol also dehydrates your body, which compromises muscle growth; plus, it slows your metabolism, so you burn fewer calories. So drinking gives you less muscle and more fat -- you're just undoing everything you're trying to achieve with your workout.
3- Caffeine
I know there are a lot of people out there that say caffeine can give your workout a little extra oomph. Obviously, it can give you some extra energy to make you push harder, but the cost is that it increases cortisol levels in your body, which inhibit lean muscle growth. Plus, it can affect your sleep patterns, and you're better off working out when you're rested than when you're juiced.
4- Anything with a face
It used to be that you could find some decent lean meat sources, but in the last few decades the hormones, antibiotics and chemicals that have been used to process meat and fish make them bad foods and pretty worthless as a source of protein. There are plenty of excellent vegetarian sources like beans, tofu and nuts, so you can eat clean while you get lean.
5- Gluten
Gluten is a grain-derived protein found in lots of different foods, mostly in wheat, rye and barley products. The name is from the Latin word for "glue." You don't need to eat glue. Even if you're not one of the millions who are sensitive or allergic to gluten, you will be operating a much cleaner machine if you cut it out of your diet. There are plenty of other healthier whole grains like millet, amaranth, quinoa, and oats.

[Dreamliner]

http://www.askmen.com/sports/bodybuilding_400/423_5-bad-foods-to-cut-out-of-your-diet.html

I think they should rename this article "Five reasons I will never do P90X"

I stopped reading at "Don't eat anything with a face."

Guy's a looney.

[LeafUF]

Not only do I not want to stop eating things with faces, I want to eat the actual face.

And I am getting really tired of the new anti-gluten craze. If you do not have Celiac then you can eat grains with wheat gluten.

[Dreamliner]

No such thing as 'bad foods':

http://www.johnbarban.com

BTW, this guy's a Gator.

[Dreamliner]

By the way, the founder of Monkey Bar Gym is a nutritional looney too, but he's a nice guy and he posts his workouts for free.

[LeafUF]

Yeah, I know he is a nutritional looney. I am going to the gym tonight to see what they have to offer.

[Dreamliner]

Yeah, I know he is a nutritional looney. I am going to the gym tonight to see what they have to offer.

You might get hooked!

[G8RBrave]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/11/herschel.fitness.martial.arts/index.html?hpt=C2

Interesting article on Heschel Walker breaking fitness "rules".

[Dreamliner]

Did my dumbbell clean and press - chinup ladder workout today. Managed:

1-2-3-4-5
1-2-3-4
1-2-3
1-2-3
1-2-3

Took slightly over 30 minutes. That's 43 reps each side for the clean and press and 43 chinups. You could also call it 'density training.'

[Dreamliner]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/10/11/herschel.fitness.martial.arts/index.html?hpt=C2

Interesting article on Heschel Walker breaking fitness "rules".

WTF ? How do you get traps like that if you're not getting 1.5 grams of protein for pound of bodyweight ?*

*sarcasm

[LeafUF]

Herschel is an absolute physical freak of nature. I dare any of you to try to emulate what he does.

Dont eat for 3 days and wrestle for 7 hours. Good luck.

[Dreamliner]

Herschel is an absolute physical freak of nature. I dare any of you to try to emulate what he does.

Dont eat for 3 days and wrestle for 7 hours. Good luck.

Well, who would dare try ? They tell us it'll wreck our metabolism and wreck our performance. Herschel, growing up in Georgia, missed the memo.

BTW, did you check out Monkey Bar tonight ? The founder probably eats about 1,500 calories a day and is jacked.

[LeafUF]

Yeah, I just got home an hour ago. I didnt do the MBG work out, just the Krav Maga class. I did watch the MBG while I was warming up and it didnt look all that intense, of course that is often easy to say when not doing it yourself.

Well, who would dare try ? They tell us it'll wreck our metabolism and wreck our performance. Herschel, growing up in Georgia, missed the memo.

Forget conventional training wisdom and anything else you want to throw out. No normal person can live on what he is claiming to be doing. Not that I dont believe him but eating just bread and salad once a day and sometimes not eating for days sounds crazy. I wonder how he has any energy. Eating once a day sure, being a vegetarian fine, but simply not eating for days and working out intensely? No way.

[Dreamliner]

Why not ? The cavemen probably had to chase mastadons for days on empty bellies. We've been brainwashed on nutrition.

[LeafUF]

I dont consider myself brainwashed at all. I am also not a caveman. Are you going to start recommending Paleo dieting next? After all that is their argument.

I am with you on IMF or Warrior Diet style eating. But I think the returns would start to diminish the more days you push it out. And while I know you and many others advocate fasted exercise I doubt anyone would say workout for 7 hours while you fast. Oh and while you are at it, just keep on fasting through the next days workout too.

I am not gonna try it but if someone other than freak of nature Herschel Walker does please let me know. I have no problem being wrong if normal people can do it.

Until then I think we are looking at an anomaly.

[Dreamliner]

I dont consider myself brainwashed at all. I am also not a caveman. Are you going to start recommending Paleo dieting next? After all that is their argument.

I am with you on IMF or Warrior Diet style eating. But I think the returns would start to diminish the more days you push it out. And while I know you and many others advocate fasted exercise I doubt anyone would say workout for 7 hours while you fast. Oh and while you are at it, just keep on fasting through the next days workout too.

I am not gonna try it but if someone other than freak of nature Herschel Walker does please let me know. I have no problem being wrong if normal people can do it.

Until then I think we are looking at an anomaly.

No, I'm not recommending Paleo. Neither am I asking you to emulate Herschel. I am arguing that nothing other than brainwashing can account for the fear of not eating (and exercising while not eating).

We've all been duped. People have gone for weeks without food and endured great adversity, having had to exert themselves vigorously in order to survive, at no risk to their long-term health. And before you get excited, I'm not recommending that either. :wave:

[vertigo0923]

i go lots of times without eating. sometimes i just forget. i LIKE to work out without having eaten. i'm good on one meal a day, (and coffee for breakfast) totally unhealthy maybe, but it works for me, lol

[LeafUF]

I am arguing that nothing other than brainwashing can account for the fear of not eating (and exercising while not eating).

Then we agree? Herschel is a freak that maybe no one else could mimic. I have no fear of exercising while not eating, I did fasted cardio a few days ago. I fasted a week ago though I did not work out that day. I also did a fasted lift day and felt a little weaker though I could have just been tired.

Tonight I did an intense combat sport for an hour. Granted I am not in anywhere near the shape of Herschel but I just can not even comprehend doing that for 7 hours and somehow not needing food. I already ate and I am still hungry.

[LeafUF]

i go lots of times without eating. sometimes i just forget. i LIKE to work out without having eaten. i'm good on one meal a day, (and coffee for breakfast) totally unhealthy maybe, but it works for me, lol

My buddy who I used to work with does that. He is in pretty good shape too, if food isnt in front of him and he is busy he will just forget to eat.

[Dreamliner]

i go lots of times without eating. sometimes i just forget. i LIKE to work out without having eaten. i'm good on one meal a day, (and coffee for breakfast) totally unhealthy maybe, but it works for me, lol

I'm going to call you Herschella. :happy:

[Dreamliner]

My buddy who I used to work with does that. He is in pretty good shape too, if food isnt in front of him and he is busy he will just forget to eat.

I hear you.

On the other hand, I'm hungry all the time ... but it doesn't mean anything.

[chrisleakfan4life]

Well i figured i would post an update.

Sadly i have not lost any weight since the end of July really. ive actually gained weight, mostly because of my 2 week vacation in Florida.

Anyway i've decided to start a very strict diet(starting Friday, October 15th).

It will basically consist of Soup, Chicken Salad, and Fruits. I am also going to try and start walking daily, whether its on a the treadmill our in our neighborhood.

I am becoming very frustrated with my diet, and I'm having trouble controlling my hunger and i haven't really worked out much.

I know it's all mental so i just need to get over the hurdle again, follow my food diet and combine some walking and weight lifting in and i know i can lose the weight.


I know caffeine makes you hungry, but does diet soda really slow down any attempts to diet? I drink mostly diet soda now which i believe is a bad idea, but im one of the people who just cant drink water constantly.

Anyway i was 205 in January and now im back up to 211, very frustrated but it's all mental and i just need to get over the hump and get into rhythm.

[LeafUF]

You clearly have trouble sticking to your plan. That has been apparent since day one. You need something to keep you on track daily. Because you seem to understand what it will take and just can not keep to doing it. It could be as simple as posting your own thread in here.

Everyday post what you did and what you ate. It might help keep you on track.

As for soda, I would drop it. Caffeine actually shouldnt make you hungry, its other things in diet soda that are doing that. If you need caffeine take pills or drink black coffee or green tea.

[slmdLS1]

might be the syrup in sodas, i've always heard even though i've never looked into it, that it will make you hungry and you dont realize it.

As for the chicken salad, most of it is bad nutrion wise. I stick to baked chicken tenderloins.

Another Thursday, another fast + workout = another 4lbs down. Started @ 298lbs, now at 244lbs and falling. goal is 230 by Nov 1st.

The longer i pay attention to my foods/diet, and stick to making meal plans, and portion control....the harder it is to get ENOUGH calories, lol. Cant remember if i've mentioned it, but I struggle to make 1500 a day now, usually in the 1200-1300 range.

[LeafUF]

SLMD if you are ok with eating that many calories and feel good dont worry about it. If you do however want to hit that 1500 mark a handful of almonds is an easy way to get there. Its around 200 calories of healthy fat, some carbs and protein. That or a couple of tablespoons of natural peanut butter.

[slmdLS1]

yeah i feel more energetic actually so I'm OK with it. I've heard of folks eating lots of almonds for that reason, i may try it a day or two.

I cant remember if it was you Leaf or Dream that recommended to drop the protein shakes, but i remembered that i have had one in weeks.

[LeafUF]

Dream is anti protein shakes. I am pro protein shakes. He is right that they arent necessary so if you are trying to keep low calories and getting there with whole food there is no point.

I use them almost daily. But I eat a lot higher calorie than you are, almost twice as much actually.

[chrisleakfan4life]

might be the syrup in sodas, i've always heard even though i've never looked into it, that it will make you hungry and you dont realize it.

As for the chicken salad, most of it is bad nutrion wise. I stick to baked chicken tenderloins.

Another Thursday, another fast + workout = another 4lbs down. Started @ 298lbs, now at 244lbs and falling. goal is 230 by Nov 1st.

The longer i pay attention to my foods/diet, and stick to making meal plans, and portion control....the harder it is to get ENOUGH calories, lol. Cant remember if i've mentioned it, but I struggle to make 1500 a day now, usually in the 1200-1300 range.


I don't eat unhealthy salads.

The salad im having right now consists of: Oscar Mayer Cutting Board chicken, low fat/low calorie Bernsteins dressing(cheese fantastico i think) which is 25 calories per tbsp or w/e(10 calories from fat) and lettuce.

I springle on a little reduced fat bacon bits as well.

The whole salad is probably less than 300 calories i am guessing.

[chrisleakfan4life]

Do diet sodas really slow down your diet though?

I've been drinking diet A&W Root Beer for awhile.

The only non soda options ive really looked at and can tolerate are

Lipton's diet green tea with citrus

Vitamin Water Zero

Sobe Life(the zero calorie ones not regular)

Powerade Zero.

[G8RBrave]

Im going to the Food and Wine festival at Epcot on Sunday and Monday. Look out excess calories!

Oh well, I'll just fast the day I get back.

[slmdLS1]

I don't eat unhealthy salads.

The salad im having right now consists of: Oscar Mayer Cutting Board chicken, low fat/low calorie Bernsteins dressing(cheese fantastico i think) which is 25 calories per tbsp or w/e(10 calories from fat) and lettuce.

I springle on a little reduced fat bacon bits as well.

The whole salad is probably less than 300 calories i am guessing.

oohhhh i thought you meant chicken salad, like the tuna salad type stuff. You mean like a deli sliced chicken or baked chicken salad type thing, ok.

I eat a baked chicken salad the day before i fast, at dinner. It was about 210 calories with 4oz of chicken, and 2 tblspns of lite ranch dressing, and 2 full cups of salad. I was also using the Oscar Meyer deli sliced turkey, like 6 slices is 45 calories, before i got a food scale and started buying chicken by the 5lb bag.

[LeafUF]

Food scale is a great purchase.

[Dreamliner]

Hold the presses! A European study shows greater muscle increase for fasted training than for fed training. I'll post the link if I can find it, but it's in the new Men's Fitness Magazine.

[Gatorgrrrrrrr]

Congrats!

[Dreamliner]

My new trainee, Barbara, has lost 14 pounds in 14 days. She established an aggressive calorie deficit by: (A) eliminating snacking and (2) reducing portion size during meals. Also, she purchased a pedometer and has become a walking fiend.

[slmdLS1]

Started @ 298lbs, now at 244lbs and falling. goal is 230 by Nov 1st.

and here we are a year later, still holding down 190lbs.

:grin:

[Dreamliner]

and here we are a year later, still holding down 190lbs.

:grin:

You da man! It's one thing to get there. It's another thing to stay there.